Allouch: Hezbollah qualifies as a terrorist group

Future Movement official Dr Mustafa allouch told OTV on Monday that Hezbollah “has all the characteristics of a terrorist party.”

“Hezbollah is qualified to be a terrorist party regardless whether it assassinated former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in 2005 or not,” Allouch said

He said that Hezbollah is “carrying out its terrorism by moving toward the practice of the Wilayat al-Faqih” system in Lebanon, in reference to the present Islamic system of government in Iran

He also said that US President Barack Obama accused Hezbollah of political assassinations in a Sunday speech “because he might have certain data that backs his beliefs .”

US President Barack Obama accused Hezbollah of carrying out political assassination and pledged Sunday that the United States will stand up to the Iranian-backed militant group.

“Iran continues to support terrorism across the region, including providing weapons and funds to terrorist organizations,” Obama said in reference to Hezbollah

Hezbollah brought down PM Saad Hariri’s government on January 12 Special Tribunal for Lebanon ( STL) ’s imminent indictment which is widely expected to implicate Hezbollah members in the assassination of the father of caretaker PM

Lebanon has been run by a caretaker government since last January. Nagib Mikati was appointed in January as the PM designate with the backing of the Hezbollah led-March 8 alliance, MPs Walid Jumblatt and Mohammad Safadi . March 14 leaders have repeatedly said that intimidation from Hezbollah’s weapons helped secure the parliamentary majority for Mikati’s nomination.

Hezbollah reportedly threatened to kill Jumblatt and members of his parliamentary bloc if they did not vote for their candidate ( Mikati) during the presidential consultations aimed at appointing a PM designate to form a new government .

Jumblatt, Mikat, Safadi and all members of their blocs were elected by March 14 votes in the 2009 elections.

  • plomca

    Geez, the people of Lebanon are finally realizing that Hezbollah is a terrorist group?  While the rest of the world has listed Hezbollah as terrorists, it seems Lebanon has always been in denial or blind or just plain stupid.

    Lebanon, it is time to list Hezbollah as a terrorist/criminal organization and stop pretending it is a political party. And please, stop believing that it is a resistance group. The only thing they are resisting, is you.

    How many more Lebanese need to die at the hands of Hezbollah, before Lebanon finally comes to it’s senses?

    • kareemthehippy

      What do you take us for? Idiots? Look, most of us appreciate Hezbollah getting rid of Israel’s illegal occupation of Southern Lebanon, but after that, they’ve been more of a blight than a blessing…we’re not pretending its a political party..they have legitimate politicians, and ALL Lebanese political parties have militias…so, as someone who isn’t from a Shiite background, and is NOT a Hezbollah supporter AT ALL, it’s important that we remember that ALL political parties need to put an end to their disgusting militias, Hezbollah included…I think Hezbollah can exist as a political party, because it represents a portion fo the Lebanese population..and this applies to any leftist or rightist movement in Lebanon..they shoudl all put down their guns. We have an army.

  • plomca

    Geez, the people of Lebanon are finally realizing that Hezbollah is a terrorist group?  While the rest of the world has listed Hezbollah as terrorists, it seems Lebanon has always been in denial or blind or just plain stupid.

    Lebanon, it is time to list Hezbollah as a terrorist/criminal organization and stop pretending it is a political party. And please, stop believing that it is a resistance group. The only thing they are resisting, is you.

    How many more Lebanese need to die at the hands of Hezbollah, before Lebanon finally comes to it’s senses?

  • Anonymous

    Geez, the people of Lebanon are finally realizing that Hezbollah is a terrorist group?  While the rest of the world has listed Hezbollah as terrorists, it seems Lebanon has always been in denial or blind or just plain stupid.

    Lebanon, it is time to list Hezbollah as a terrorist/criminal organization and stop pretending it is a political party. And please, stop believing that it is a resistance group. The only thing they are resisting, is you.

    How many more Lebanese need to die at the hands of Hezbollah, before Lebanon finally comes to it’s senses?

    • Anonymous

      What do you take us for? Idiots? Look, most of us appreciate Hezbollah getting rid of Israel’s illegal occupation of Southern Lebanon, but after that, they’ve been more of a blight than a blessing…we’re not pretending its a political party..they have legitimate politicians, and ALL Lebanese political parties have militias…so, as someone who isn’t from a Shiite background, and is NOT a Hezbollah supporter AT ALL, it’s important that we remember that ALL political parties need to put an end to their disgusting militias, Hezbollah included…I think Hezbollah can exist as a political party, because it represents a portion fo the Lebanese population..and this applies to any leftist or rightist movement in Lebanon..they shoudl all put down their guns. We have an army.

  • master09

    Why would anyone not support HA, they hand out money and give services for free to shut people up and when people are sooo poor they have no option but to stand by them good or bad. MONEY talks and bull shit walks and HA has plenty of both.

    Lebanon will always be full of shit because our people are so scared to speak out and in a few years will be worse than a jail.

  • master09

    Why would anyone not support HA, they hand out money and give services for free to shut people up and when people are sooo poor they have no option but to stand by them good or bad. MONEY talks and bull shit walks and HA has plenty of both.

    Lebanon will always be full of shit because our people are so scared to speak out and in a few years will be worse than a jail.

  • Anonymous

    Why would anyone not support HA, they hand out money and give services for free to shut people up and when people are sooo poor they have no option but to stand by them good or bad. MONEY talks and bull shit walks and HA has plenty of both.

    Lebanon will always be full of shit because our people are so scared to speak out and in a few years will be worse than a jail.

  • 316909

    I dont think this kind of talk helps. Even if they are we need to tone it down a little until the regime in Syria falls. Once that happens HA will be forced to deal with new realities on the ground (sit and talk or full blown civil war). Now lets just wait and see because after all we dont need revenge killings and explosions  in Lebanon now (even though that would be exactally what Syria  may need in a little)

  • 316909

    I dont think this kind of talk helps. Even if they are we need to tone it down a little until the regime in Syria falls. Once that happens HA will be forced to deal with new realities on the ground (sit and talk or full blown civil war). Now lets just wait and see because after all we dont need revenge killings and explosions  in Lebanon now (even though that would be exactally what Syria  may need in a little)

  • Anonymous

    I dont think this kind of talk helps. Even if they are we need to tone it down a little until the regime in Syria falls. Once that happens HA will be forced to deal with new realities on the ground (sit and talk or full blown civil war). Now lets just wait and see because after all we dont need revenge killings and explosions  in Lebanon now (even though that would be exactally what Syria  may need in a little)

  • Beiruti

     The man said it all…

  • Beiruti

     The man said it all…

  • Anonymous

     The man said it all…

  • Crossed

    Hezbollah is not a terror group. This is a group that stepped up when the government of Lebanon left it’s citizens of the south to die under Israeli terror. It is not involved in any political assassinations, there is no proof. It does not operate out of Lebanon, and is committed to Lebanon’s health and advancement.

    In this world, anyone who opposes Israel and its real terrorism is labelled a terrorist themself. I would rather defend my country and human rights as a whole then quietly turn a blind eye and let Israel ruin the lives of millions. Let Hezbollah be called a terror group… It means they are right all along. 

    • Mosetsfire

      Crossed,

      A political group doesn’t shoot nationals in their own home. As of May 7 2008 Hezbollah is irrevocably a terrorist organization. It’s about time Lebanese politicians stopped being quiet about this gang that has taken Lebanon hostage.
        

      • Crossed

        Nationals are people who support the government. If you attack a communications network without a real government order you are not a national but a thug. If you attack a communications network that belongs to a group who has the right to operate in Lebanon and is armed, you are down right stupid. Not to mention the fact that these “nationals” were armed too, not civillians like you’d have us believe.

        • antar2011

          the view that seniora govt was not a ‘real’ govt was and apparently is still used by HA as if it made sense.
          HA had no right to label a govt [in which his own ministers were in] ‘real” or not. 
          twisting and molding the lebanese constitution and interpreting it wrongly is not a good way to label anything past the rooms of its own house.

          the communication’s network is prooved to be a tool that monitored some later assassinated govt minister’s activities.
          it has nothing to do with spying from israel…if anything it had to do with irani spies on the lebanese  govt officials.
          only iditos would defend may 2008 with this poor excuse.

          but let;s say they had a right to fight those who were behind the ‘touching’ of HA’s only property, what has any of the lebanese civilians in Beirut got to do with it?
          are pple’s lives so cheap for HA that they are willing to kill innocent pple and bring the wrath of the Being they claim they represent on them for something the govt did?.

          or are they not really considered to be human because they do not follow HA and its wilayet al faqeeh idiology so the dogs in HA can eliminate them?

      • Crossed

        Nationals are people who support the government. If you attack a communications network without a real government order you are not a national but a thug. If you attack a communications network that belongs to a group who has the right to operate in Lebanon and is armed, you are down right stupid. Not to mention the fact that these “nationals” were armed too, not civillians like you’d have us believe.

        • antar2011

          the view that seniora govt was not a ‘real’ govt was and apparently is still used by HA as if it made sense.
          HA had no right to label a govt [in which his own ministers were in] ‘real” or not. 
          twisting and molding the lebanese constitution and interpreting it wrongly is not a good way to label anything past the rooms of its own house.

          the communication’s network is prooved to be a tool that monitored some later assassinated govt minister’s activities.
          it has nothing to do with spying from israel…if anything it had to do with irani spies on the lebanese  govt officials.
          only iditos would defend may 2008 with this poor excuse.

          but let;s say they had a right to fight those who were behind the ‘touching’ of HA’s only property, what has any of the lebanese civilians in Beirut got to do with it?
          are pple’s lives so cheap for HA that they are willing to kill innocent pple and bring the wrath of the Being they claim they represent on them for something the govt did?.

          or are they not really considered to be human because they do not follow HA and its wilayet al faqeeh idiology so the dogs in HA can eliminate them?

      • kareemthehippy

        Masri, I agree. It’s about time we disarm Hezbollah or at least have them join the army if they truly care for the country…like that’ll ever happen…but, I stress the importance that we disarm the other militias in Lebanon too.  I dislike Hezbollah, but I hate the other militias too.

    • eblashko

      When you refer to “Israeli terror” in S. Lebanon, are referring to the occupation of S. Lebanon from 1982-2000, or the 2006 War?

      If you’re referring to the occupation, then during the years of 1982 to 2000, 172-189 Lebanese civilians were  killed while 90 Israeli civilians killed. (keep in mind that many of the Lebanese casualites were at the hand of Israeli-allied Lebanese themselves, like the SLA).

      Interesting figures if you compare them to Hezbollah’s bloody massacre against its own citizens in 2008, in which 93 Lebanese were killed because of them. (and that’s not a 18 year occupation, that’s only a few days of massacre).

      And if you’re talking about the 2006 War, while I admit that my country’s egregious use of force was both unnecessary and excessive and received no result, and apologize on behalf of my country, we can all agree that had Hezbollah never kidnapped those two reservniks in the first place, there would have been a war to begin with.

      So when you say that Hezbollah stepped up when S. Lebanese were left to die, you could also say they left them to die by putting citizens on S. Lebanon under Israeli fire by instigating war, and sentenced them to death.

      But of course they had to do it. After killing Hariri, they had to find a way to get the country back behind them (behind Syria and Iran). What better way than starting a war with Israel for no reason!!!

      • Beiruti

        How about the 20,000 people killed in West Beirut by Israel? In 1982. 

        • eblashko

          That was a travesty and a black stain on my country’s history, and on behalf of my father’s generation, I apologize.

        • master09

          How many Lebanese where killed by the PLO ?

        • kareemthehippy

          @master09:disqus  – PLO killed lots of Lebanese, but in the end the guilty one isn’t the one who killed most, but the one who killed…I’d put Syria, Israel, the PLO, Iran..etc..all guilty of warcrimes…they are all wrong for waht they did to lebanon….and we were wrong for siding with any of our political parties…let’s face it..nobody cared for Lebanon

        • Hannibal

          How about the 500 000 maimed and killed and displaced at the hands of the PLO? The road to Jerusalem passes by 3yuun el siman and Jounieh they said… Now finally they got a GPS and know that jerusalem is Southwardly :P
          Now do not forget that the West side of Beirut stood by the PLO against their own Lebanese brothers until they finally woke up when East beirut stood by them against the Syrian occupation. The problem with the Lebanese people is the same we had for centuries… A muslim Lebanese considers a Muslim Pakistani more of a kin than a neighbor Lebanese or even a cousin from a different sect. I have heard Orthodox people say that an Orthodox in Russia is closer to me than a moslem in West Beirut. Admit it people, as long as your religion defines you there will be no Lebanon. What a f^cked up nation.
          @eblashko,
          You consider ALL Arabs as one nation and this is far from the truth… You can not justify that the land you live on is a payback for your father’s Moroccan service as Morocco has NOTHING to do with Palestine. I can say the same for instance I want a piece of Israel because Hezbollah took my village. Is that logical?
          However, what’s been done is done and correcting some of the wrongs is all what we can do. Israel should allow the refugees back as they are Palestinians (Philistines if you wish) FIRST then Arabs (If they are).

      • Beiruti

        How about the 20,000 people killed in West Beirut by Israel? In 1982. 

        • eblashko

          That was a travesty and a black stain on my country’s history, and on behalf of my father’s generation, I apologize.

        • master09

          How many Lebanese where killed by the PLO ?

      • Crossed

        The fact that many Lebanese were killed by the SLA does not excuse Israel. It provided arms and training and is still responsible for all the killings the SLA did. Sabra and Shatila also happened under the blessing of the IDF who provided a complete barricade of the areas. Death counts aren’t all that matter. Occupation is a very fearful environment, and amounts to terror. It makes living in your country impossible.

        Don’t get me wrong, I oppose the SLA just as much as the IDF.  

        You are misrepresenting facts. In 2008 hezbollah’s communication network was attacked by a non-state actor. They had all the right to repel such attack because it did not come from a Lebanese government acceptable under the constitution. What Israel did to Gaza and Lebanon is a massacre, not this.

        “egregious use of force was both unnecessary and excessive” So you sugar coat saying ” committed a masacre, violated human rights, and terrorized Lebanese”. But I agree with you, had Hezbollah not kidnapped the two soldiers none of that would have happened. But also, had Israel not occupied any land Lebanon lays claim to, then that operation also wouldn’t have happened. So since you want to play the blame game, we should go back further and blame the real source of the problem.

        I think I should end by saying one day I can accept a peace with Israel. And that can only happen when Israel retreats, gives back all the land it captured by war, evacuates all settlers and settlements, returns East J’lem, stops stealing Palestinian water resources and allows Palestinians to live independently. So basically all the rights Palestinians are negotiating for. Once that happens I’ll pressure the Lebanese government to make peace.

        On that note, since you call yourself a zionist, what should be done about Palestinian refugees? You believe that semetic and non-semetic jews who for 2000 years have not seen the holy land have a right to return. But Palestinians, many of whom still have keys to their old homes in what is now Israel, and were living there for the past 2000 years don’t have this same right? Please clarify your stance. Because if this true, zionism as a whole is racist and by nature leads to apartheid. Why should you be taken seriously if you openly call for wiping an entire people’s history from memory?

        • eblashko

          Thanks for the reply, crossed.

          I have to disagree with your point ” But also, had Israel not occupied any land Lebanon lays claim to, then that operation also wouldn’t have happened.”

          The border was quiet for 6 years. The UN has confirmed that we fully retreated to the Blue line. Hezbollah kidnapped and murdered those men, who were reserve soldiers with wives and children, for absolutely no reason. Yea, I guess you could say if there was no Israeli occupation, there would be no Hezbollah, but at that moment in 2006, there was absolutely no crisis, no issue, and no reason to start shit. Hezbollah knew exactly what they were doing.

          As far as this issue of non-Semitic Jews, let me be clear that on a whole, all Jews, European, Middle Eastern, and North African, are all Semites. Genetic studies have proven time and time again that not only are Jews from all over the diaspora related more closely to each other than their host populations, but they are also more closely related to other Levantine people than anyone else. This has been proven over and over again and if you don’t believe me, you could find the information anywhere.

          But I must agree with you in that converts to Judaism should have no right to live here, as their ancestors never did.

          Now to get to your question about Zionist, I think your problem with Zionism has mostly to do with a misconception.

          Zionism means for a homeless people to return home after 2000 miserable years of exile. It doesn’t mean we need our entire home, or that nobody else can live here, but it does mean that we DO have the right to live here.

          Zionism is not at all racist. Nor is it anti a specific religion. Arabs, both Druze and Bedouin, as well as Circassian Muslims, have accepted Israeli nationality and are very patriotic and proud Israelis. They all, by their own choice, join the army, contribute proudly to the state and many, particularly the Druze, are actually pretty right-wing and very Zionist.

          Let me also say that Zionism, in an obsession with its own legitimacy, made sure to acquire all of its lands legally from the beginning until 1948. I challenge you to find even one Zionist settlement settled before 1948 that was not purchased totally legally and legitimately from its original Arab or Turkish landowners.

          Not only that, but Palestine was proposed to be partitioned in 1936 into a very tiny Jewish state (consisting only of the Galilee and coastal strip to Tel Aviv) and a huge Arab state (comprising everything else). The Jews said yes. The Arabs said no. So even then, the Zionists were willing to give up huge portions of what they thought was their ancestral homeland in order to live in peace with their neighbors. The same thing happened in 1948, only this time, after saying no to partition again, the Arabs all invaded Israel, only to lose more land than they started. Same thing happened in 1967.

          However, the Zionists were willing to give up lands they legitimately won while trying to defend themselves from annihilation. This was clear in 1979, when Israel gave back the entire Sinai peninsula to Egypt for peace, while evacuating the tens of thousands of settlers who lived there.

          Peace with Egypt has been a strategic asset and it should be clear from that example that given the right circumstances, Israel would be willing to give up large parts of land and evacuate settlements, if true peace would be achieved.

          In that sense, I support a two state solution. I support giving up land for peace. For me, I’d rather live in part of my homeland peacefully than continually fight for all of it. My family came here as refugees from Morocco, and have never asked for compensation. There were almost a million Jews who were forced out of their homes in Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years, after the founding of the state of Israel. There should be no compensation for Palestinian refugees either. They can go to Palestine once it is established and build their lives their just like we came and built our lives here. Jerusalem should be split based on demographics. End of story. But it must be a TRUE peace. One where Arabs accept our presence here as legitimate as long as we accept theirs. Where we learn each other’s stories in school. Where we do business with each other and can finally cry and laugh with each other as brothers and equals.

          I would say 75% of Israelis share this position. But we are scared, form the example in Gaza and S. Lebanon, that if we withdraw from land, we will get nothing but rockets. So we are cautious. There are no more Anwar Sadats. Hamas and Hezbollah continue to say that they won’t stop the “resistance” until we’re gone. But that fear has nothing to do with Zionism

          As small as Israel would have been had the Arabs accepted partition in 1936, I still wish it had happened. Not only would there have been no Holocaust, but there would have been no Arab-Israeli conflict, and millions of countless lives would have been saved. It’s not about a land grab. It’s about having somewhere to live in peace. Put yourself in an Israelis shoes. What would you feel?

        • eblashko

          Thanks for the reply, crossed.

          I have to disagree with your point ” But also, had Israel not occupied any land Lebanon lays claim to, then that operation also wouldn’t have happened.”

          The border was quiet for 6 years. The UN has confirmed that we fully retreated to the Blue line. Hezbollah kidnapped and murdered those men, who were reserve soldiers with wives and children, for absolutely no reason. Yea, I guess you could say if there was no Israeli occupation, there would be no Hezbollah, but at that moment in 2006, there was absolutely no crisis, no issue, and no reason to start shit. Hezbollah knew exactly what they were doing.

          As far as this issue of non-Semitic Jews, let me be clear that on a whole, all Jews, European, Middle Eastern, and North African, are all Semites. Genetic studies have proven time and time again that not only are Jews from all over the diaspora related more closely to each other than their host populations, but they are also more closely related to other Levantine people than anyone else. This has been proven over and over again and if you don’t believe me, you could find the information anywhere.

          But I must agree with you in that converts to Judaism should have no right to live here, as their ancestors never did.

          Now to get to your question about Zionist, I think your problem with Zionism has mostly to do with a misconception.

          Zionism means for a homeless people to return home after 2000 miserable years of exile. It doesn’t mean we need our entire home, or that nobody else can live here, but it does mean that we DO have the right to live here.

          Zionism is not at all racist. Nor is it anti a specific religion. Arabs, both Druze and Bedouin, as well as Circassian Muslims, have accepted Israeli nationality and are very patriotic and proud Israelis. They all, by their own choice, join the army, contribute proudly to the state and many, particularly the Druze, are actually pretty right-wing and very Zionist.

          Let me also say that Zionism, in an obsession with its own legitimacy, made sure to acquire all of its lands legally from the beginning until 1948. I challenge you to find even one Zionist settlement settled before 1948 that was not purchased totally legally and legitimately from its original Arab or Turkish landowners.

          Not only that, but Palestine was proposed to be partitioned in 1936 into a very tiny Jewish state (consisting only of the Galilee and coastal strip to Tel Aviv) and a huge Arab state (comprising everything else). The Jews said yes. The Arabs said no. So even then, the Zionists were willing to give up huge portions of what they thought was their ancestral homeland in order to live in peace with their neighbors. The same thing happened in 1948, only this time, after saying no to partition again, the Arabs all invaded Israel, only to lose more land than they started. Same thing happened in 1967.

          However, the Zionists were willing to give up lands they legitimately won while trying to defend themselves from annihilation. This was clear in 1979, when Israel gave back the entire Sinai peninsula to Egypt for peace, while evacuating the tens of thousands of settlers who lived there.

          Peace with Egypt has been a strategic asset and it should be clear from that example that given the right circumstances, Israel would be willing to give up large parts of land and evacuate settlements, if true peace would be achieved.

          In that sense, I support a two state solution. I support giving up land for peace. For me, I’d rather live in part of my homeland peacefully than continually fight for all of it. My family came here as refugees from Morocco, and have never asked for compensation. There were almost a million Jews who were forced out of their homes in Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years, after the founding of the state of Israel. There should be no compensation for Palestinian refugees either. They can go to Palestine once it is established and build their lives their just like we came and built our lives here. Jerusalem should be split based on demographics. End of story. But it must be a TRUE peace. One where Arabs accept our presence here as legitimate as long as we accept theirs. Where we learn each other’s stories in school. Where we do business with each other and can finally cry and laugh with each other as brothers and equals.

          I would say 75% of Israelis share this position. But we are scared, form the example in Gaza and S. Lebanon, that if we withdraw from land, we will get nothing but rockets. So we are cautious. There are no more Anwar Sadats. Hamas and Hezbollah continue to say that they won’t stop the “resistance” until we’re gone. But that fear has nothing to do with Zionism

          As small as Israel would have been had the Arabs accepted partition in 1936, I still wish it had happened. Not only would there have been no Holocaust, but there would have been no Arab-Israeli conflict, and millions of countless lives would have been saved. It’s not about a land grab. It’s about having somewhere to live in peace. Put yourself in an Israelis shoes. What would you feel?

      • Crossed

        Thanks eblashko, I like that you reply with respect.

        We can debate the origins of the conflict for years, but only today and tomorrow matters. That’s my problem with zionism. You asked me how I would feel, and my answer is the same way. I would feel as if I needed a home and land to call my own. But I would not evict another peoples from their lands. I ask you to put yourself in the Palestinian’s shoes now. One day an armed soldier knocks at your door and instructs you leave. He is Jewish. You find it odd because for tens of years, before Israel was born Muslims and Jews lived side by side in peace. This is exactly why many rabbis the world over reject zionism. So what would you do?

        I think the first thing you’d do is grab your family and leave then maybe arm yourself and reject the idea of European jews imposing their will on the land you are living on. This is why we have a couple million Palestinian refugees. They have all the right to return to the land that they were living on, not another land in a future Palestinian state. You claim this same right, so you must accept their calls. This is my problem with zionism and why I think it’s racist and should be shut out. It calls for a jewish homeland… on top of a homeland that already has people living on it. These Palestinians should become Israeli citizens once peace is achieved.

        I know what you’re thinking, “if we let them back Israel might not have a strong jewish majority”. But you said zionism calls for a home for the jews to live in peace. Allowing Palestinians to return would not endanger Israelis. Do you really want to live side by side? If you do, this injustice done to the Palestinians must be corrected.

        I also know that some land was bought out AFTER Israel declared statehood. Infact Israel occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. How do you explain that?

        Again I say as a strong supporter of resistance against Israel that I will happily accept a peace with Israel if it rights its wrongs. Palestinians must return to their lands inside and outside of Israel, and Israel must allow the creation of a Palestinian state through negotiations based on the 1967 borders. If the Palestine issue is settled, the refugee issue is settled, only then can the Arabs and Israelis be at peace.

        • eblashko

          Respect is the only way to have these discussions. That is why I love forums like this. Peace can only come when we respect each other as people, and don’t think of each other merely as one side or the other.

          I have put myself in Palestinian shoes. That’s why I agree in giving up land for peace. They should have a country to realize their national potential and flourish. But their old houses are gone, just like our old homes are gone. Everybody was wronged. My Moroccan family was settled in Be’er Sheva, which Palestinians had never lived in, but even if they had, I’ll consider the Moroccan government’s seizure of my great grandfather’s property and pension (which he earned by working for the Moroccan government for 40 years) as payment for the land where we live today. 

          Did you know that Palestinian refugees in Arab countries are the only refugees in the world where refugee status is passed from parent to child? That’s the reason for a refugee crisis today. If they had been absorbed into the countries they left to, there would be no issue, but the Arab countries needed the refugees to always have an issue with Israel. And the hypocrisy is disgusting. Armenians, who aren’t even Arabs, came to Lebanon as refugees not long before the Palestinians, and were accepted as citizens and absorbed. (and Lebanon still maintains relations with Turkey). There is no question as to their Lebanese nationality. But The Palestinians, close cousins of the Lebanese, are treated like animals, and Lebanon somehow blames Israel for this. 

          On the other hand, I have immense respect for the Lebanese, as Lebanon was the only Arab country who didn’t expel their Jewish population after Israel’s creation.

          Have you heard of the massacres committed by the Palestinians against the Jews in Israel in 1920, 1929, and 1936. Thousands of Jews killed, many of them not even Zionists (i.e. Religious Jews who had lived there forever). This is before the state and before any Arab left their homes. They made it very clear that there would be no living together peacefully. That’s why partition of the land into 2 states for 2 peoples was decided as the accepted strategy to solve the problem. The Jews have accepted every partition plan ever offered. The Arabs have rejected every partition plan ever offered. 

          And the picture you painted of the Israeli soldier coming to the house, as romantic as it seems, is true probably in a handful of cases, like Dir Yassin, who’s residents were very hostile and which occupied a strategic position on the Tel Aviv – Jerusalem road. The causes of the refugee conflict are a great debate, and it’s very convenient to blame Israel, but the reality is that most fled on their own before the Israeli soldier showed up, on the urging of the Jordanian Arab Legion, so that they could wipe out the Jews without having to worry about Arab civilian casualties. The proof is that over 20% of the country is Arab Palestinian today, which is proof that if we practiced ethnic cleansing, we did a bad job. And not just that, those Palestinians have more rights and a better life in Israel than they do anywhere else in the Middle East.

          What would be the point in making two states if both of them would be Palestinian anyway?

          You say “I also know that some land was bought out AFTER Israel declared statehood. Infact Israel occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. How do you explain that?” 

          I  don’t really know what you mean, so please explain. There was not even one refugee created before any Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. It was the Arab soldiers, by declaring war on tiny Israel, which started the conflict. And the land was bought before the war, not after, starting with Rishon Letzion in 1882, each settlement’s land wads bought totally legally, including Tel Aviv and the area around it (where over half of Israelis live today) as well as the Jezerel Valley, Eastern Galilee, Carmel Mountain and Coastal plain, plus a few places in the empty Negev, which nobody but Bedouins and ancient Israelis had ever lived. 

          But you are right, and all this is the past, and even though I am positive without a doubt that I am on the side of justice, I’m sure I won’t be able to convince you that I am. But I shouldn’t need to. We shouldn’t look to the past to solve our problems. We should look to the future. So should Palestinian refugees. They can have a country and build new homes. Things have changed since 1948. Most refugees have probably never even seen Palestine. So what’s the difference if they go to Nablus or Ramallah or Hebron or Jerusalem or Gaza or Jericho? Their old homes are gone just like our old homes are gone. But they can build new ones in their land just like we did. Look to the future, not the past. Israelis, including myself, would prefer constant war than a right of return, which we see as a death sentence, since the Arabs refuse to not want to kill us, as they made it very clear in the aforementioned riots, in the 1948, ’67, and ’73 wars, and even today with statements by Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran to push us into the sea.

          It would be as ridiculous for Palestinian refugees to come back to Israel as it would for all of us Jews to reclaim the homes and property that we were forced out from, either in the Middle East, North Africa, or Europe. People move. Get over it.

          And the last point, about why some religious Jews are anti-Zionist, has nothing to do with Jewish-Muslim coexistance. And it’s not because they don’t want to live in Israel. They pray about returning to Zion every day. The anti-Zionist sect, called Naturei Karta, just feels that we should not return to Israel until the Messiah comes, and it is a sin to do it on our own. Trust me, it has nothing to do with how we treat Palestinians. And they are only a tiny sect of Judaism. Most religious Jews are ultra-nationalist and very right wing. 95% of settlers are religious Jews.

      • Crossed

        Thanks eblashko, I like that you reply with respect.

        We can debate the origins of the conflict for years, but only today and tomorrow matters. That’s my problem with zionism. You asked me how I would feel, and my answer is the same way. I would feel as if I needed a home and land to call my own. But I would not evict another peoples from their lands. I ask you to put yourself in the Palestinian’s shoes now. One day an armed soldier knocks at your door and instructs you leave. He is Jewish. You find it odd because for tens of years, before Israel was born Muslims and Jews lived side by side in peace. This is exactly why many rabbis the world over reject zionism. So what would you do?

        I think the first thing you’d do is grab your family and leave then maybe arm yourself and reject the idea of European jews imposing their will on the land you are living on. This is why we have a couple million Palestinian refugees. They have all the right to return to the land that they were living on, not another land in a future Palestinian state. You claim this same right, so you must accept their calls. This is my problem with zionism and why I think it’s racist and should be shut out. It calls for a jewish homeland… on top of a homeland that already has people living on it. These Palestinians should become Israeli citizens once peace is achieved.

        I know what you’re thinking, “if we let them back Israel might not have a strong jewish majority”. But you said zionism calls for a home for the jews to live in peace. Allowing Palestinians to return would not endanger Israelis. Do you really want to live side by side? If you do, this injustice done to the Palestinians must be corrected.

        I also know that some land was bought out AFTER Israel declared statehood. Infact Israel occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. How do you explain that?

        Again I say as a strong supporter of resistance against Israel that I will happily accept a peace with Israel if it rights its wrongs. Palestinians must return to their lands inside and outside of Israel, and Israel must allow the creation of a Palestinian state through negotiations based on the 1967 borders. If the Palestine issue is settled, the refugee issue is settled, only then can the Arabs and Israelis be at peace.

    • plomca

      Good golly, are we still talking about Israel’s occupation of the south?  Come on man, stop living the past!  You guys just fixated with Israel’s occupation of the past.

      The only ones who are occupying Lebanon today, is the Hezbollah through it’s terror on the Lebanese people who opposes this terrorist/criminal organization. Hezbollah are the ones ruining the lives of so many in Lebanon.

      • kareemthehippy

        Oh whatever. People still get fixated about other war crimes, occupations,and genocides AFTER THEY”VE BEEN SOLVED. You want to know why people still complain about the occupation of the South? it’s because justice hasn’t been served. Sure the Israeli army left, but they haven’t been charged with just war crimes( same with Hezbollah mind you), and Israel still illegally occupies Shibaa farms.

        While I don’t deny that Hezbollah is playing a role in the destruction of Lebanon, you sir are completely wrong for just saying “it’s the past”

        Unless your home has been occupied by a foreign army, unless you or your family have been sent to prisons or tortured, then I don’t think you are justified whatsoever in claiming that “it’s the past, get over it”.

        I’m absolutely disgusted with that statement.

    • 316909

      Lets look at what you have mentioned and state the facts.
      1.Hezbollah is not a terror group.
      Im not going to argue that. After all one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
      2.Lebanon left it’s citizens of the south to die under Israeli terror.
      We had no government at the time and when we did Syria and HA refused to let the Army into the south.
      3.It is not involved in any political assassinations, there is no proof.
      Captain wissam Eid was killed because he had evidence. No one could bring a 1000 kg of tnt into Lebanon then plant it in downtown beirut with millions of people and visitors walking around without a city permit to dig a hole in the middle of the street. Then after the blast the hole was ordered covered with in 2 hours. Phone conversations between a HA cell operating in Downtown stopped after the blast. 5 numbers were tracked and these numbers only contacted one another except one witch made a call to a female who turned out to be the lover of a HA member but he disappeared. So yes no solid proof until now but lots of lose ends and fingers pointing in a certain way. No smoke without fire as they say.  And the TNT was either in Lebanon already or sent from Syria. The army barley has Ammo so who else has a large amount of weapons in Lebanon? I wonder who has that amount of tnt! COULD IT BE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT USED TNT PACKED IN CARS IN SUICIDE ATTACKS ON SLA AND IDF PATROLS A FEW YEARS BEFORE? Its so confusing I just cant think of who has that amount of weapons in Lebanon and who used it for years? No it cant be! HA only fight Israel! Hassan Nassralah swore to god he would never use weapons in Lebanon until May 7 when HA were actually hunting down people and killed a 16yr kid under my house who was running home and a mother of 5 who ran out to get her kids from the streets.
      4.It does not operate out of Lebanon, and is committed to Lebanon’s health and advancement.
      No need the assassinations were all in Lebanon.But please dont be stupid! Just last year they had a cell found in Egypt or has that become part of Lebanon now?
      5.I would rather defend my country and human rights as a whole
      then quietly turn a blind eye and let Israel ruin the lives of millions.
      Thats very noble of you. Im sure the city you live in (Canada, Europe, Australia or the U.S) will give you that chance without labeling you a traitor. Also why may 7 then? What about the poeple that ran against HA in the elections and had homes attacked and were beaten in some cases?
      6.Let Hezbollah be called a terror group… It means they are right all along.
      Well yes you have a point but the only problem is that Lebanese are also calling it a terror group not just westerners.

      How about HA defend Lebanon by stopping Illegal construction on public property in the areas they control. Stop attacking the Lebanese police when they enter these areas. Stop marching around in black uniforms with or without weapons like they did in Jan-2011 when they acted out on a coup against the elected government and before that in may 2008. How about the drugs that are grown in the areas they control stop being grown. stolen cars held for cash ransom in dahiya and the balbak areas are a common thing now.

      THE ISRAELIS TURNED INTO THE NAZI AFTER WW2 AND HA HAS TURNED INTO THE ISRAELIS. EVOLUTION IS A BITCH!

      almost 60 years later most political, intellectual and civilian Israelis approve of a plan for a Palestinian state, They speak of Peace while we cant even put a god dam government together. The Lekud in Israel will not always rule and once a person like DM Barak is back in power we will see a Palestinian state. I wonder where HA will be in 60 years? Supported by countries who dont even have support from the people living in those countries means you will last as long as they last and it seems they will not be lasting long.

      • Crossed

        1. True
        2. We did have government, it was in paralysis. My point was that the state failed to protect the people and therefore the people have all the right to arm and defend themselves. This is international law.
        3. What you said was first reported in a German news report. It showed no proof, citing only “informed sources”. I would agree with you and blame Hezbollah if there was legitimate proof but there just isn’t. Anyone can report anything, only a fool accepts without questioning.
        4. Thats true, I should have been more descriptive. I ment to say that Hezbollah is not involved in military style operations, such as assassinations, outside of Lebanon.
        6. But the rest of the world, and the clear majority of Lebanese, don’t.

        • 316909

          back to the open discussion.
          2. I mentioned when we had a government HA and Syria would not allow the Army to enter the South.
          3. You say no proof others say the STL has the proof and thats why HA are scared. They thought killing him would end it. they didnt know info had been passed on. Thats why we ended up witht he coup in jan-2011 otherwise it would have ended with eid.
          4.They were sending weapons via Egypt into Gaza. I was in the Military and that is a classic  non combat military type operation witch requires a lot of planning and organization. Smuggle weapons from Iran or Syria via Lebanon into Egypt sounds too easy so the weapons they were sending into Gaza must have come from another country meaning they are operating in more than Syria and Iran. Also HA has a chapter in Iraq witch is very active with sader and his mihdi army. They are also accused of other things in many other countries including Argentina where a Jewish center was blown up.
          6. Europe, America, Canada, Russia, Australia list it as a terror group and that is about 60% of the world. China is 20% but they dont count because I hate Chinese food since Im on a diet and they are too busy polluting the air and making really bad movies but still HA is listed as a terror group in China and in India the other 20% of the world who also have very bad food (I hate Indian food more than I hate HA and Aoun combined. Dont get your hopes up I may cozy up to Indian food but not Aoun and HA if I have to) Thats the entire world almost except for the Middle East who will list it as a terror group soon, Syria who will be too busy with Syria soon and the One thing I hate more than Indian food, HA, Aoun and my bills combined is IRAN ! THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF HEROIN ADDICTION SINCE THEY HAVE ABOUT 18% OF THE POPULATION HOOKED ON HEROIN (THEY SAY 18% BUT REMEMBER THEY ALSO SAY THEY HAVE NO GAY PEOPLE IN IRAN SO IT MUST BE MORE LIKE 30%) and I feel pretty sure about 60% of the people in Lebanon hate HA. Most Aoun supporters I know also hate them and so do the druz Jamblat supporters since Arslan and Wahab only have supporters in the syrian regime and water world (killer whale they have is attracted to wahab since he is fat and bald like it is) and not in civilian populations. Africans on the other hand dont count. I am not racist but really no one cares about Africa cuz they are too busy fighting over the little scraps the colonial powers give them.

          Venezuela support HA but Chavez has little support in Venezuela….

        • 316909

          back to the open discussion.
          2. I mentioned when we had a government HA and Syria would not allow the Army to enter the South.
          3. You say no proof others say the STL has the proof and thats why HA are scared. They thought killing him would end it. they didnt know info had been passed on. Thats why we ended up witht he coup in jan-2011 otherwise it would have ended with eid.
          4.They were sending weapons via Egypt into Gaza. I was in the Military and that is a classic  non combat military type operation witch requires a lot of planning and organization. Smuggle weapons from Iran or Syria via Lebanon into Egypt sounds too easy so the weapons they were sending into Gaza must have come from another country meaning they are operating in more than Syria and Iran. Also HA has a chapter in Iraq witch is very active with sader and his mihdi army. They are also accused of other things in many other countries including Argentina where a Jewish center was blown up.
          6. Europe, America, Canada, Russia, Australia list it as a terror group and that is about 60% of the world. China is 20% but they dont count because I hate Chinese food since Im on a diet and they are too busy polluting the air and making really bad movies but still HA is listed as a terror group in China and in India the other 20% of the world who also have very bad food (I hate Indian food more than I hate HA and Aoun combined. Dont get your hopes up I may cozy up to Indian food but not Aoun and HA if I have to) Thats the entire world almost except for the Middle East who will list it as a terror group soon, Syria who will be too busy with Syria soon and the One thing I hate more than Indian food, HA, Aoun and my bills combined is IRAN ! THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF HEROIN ADDICTION SINCE THEY HAVE ABOUT 18% OF THE POPULATION HOOKED ON HEROIN (THEY SAY 18% BUT REMEMBER THEY ALSO SAY THEY HAVE NO GAY PEOPLE IN IRAN SO IT MUST BE MORE LIKE 30%) and I feel pretty sure about 60% of the people in Lebanon hate HA. Most Aoun supporters I know also hate them and so do the druz Jamblat supporters since Arslan and Wahab only have supporters in the syrian regime and water world (killer whale they have is attracted to wahab since he is fat and bald like it is) and not in civilian populations. Africans on the other hand dont count. I am not racist but really no one cares about Africa cuz they are too busy fighting over the little scraps the colonial powers give them.

          Venezuela support HA but Chavez has little support in Venezuela….

        • Leborigine

          I like how you blame the government for the demise of South Lebanon.
          The Lebanese Civil war and the PLO had nothing to do with israels invasion of 1982??!

        • Leborigine

          I like how you blame the government for the demise of South Lebanon.
          The Lebanese Civil war and the PLO had nothing to do with israels invasion of 1982??!

    • ghzayel

      “Hezbollah is not a terror group…”
       
      from one low to another, the latest but not the greatest news depicting hezballah’s memorable “achievements”: they are helping the syrian regime crush the revolt they are facing by sending snipers from lebanon to syria and stationing them on buildings rooftops with orders to shoot at demonstrators, thus antagonizing  the syrian population at large and compromising the neutral peaceful position that lebanon is supposed to adopt regarding political events in the middle east and worldwide.  

    • kareemthehippy

      After 2000, I have two opinions about Hezbollah, and they clash. Hezbollah does have a right to oppose Israel for more than just its war crimes against the Palestinians..Israel still occupies some of Lebanon, which is illegal.  Now, despite that, I think Hezbollah’s approach to it is bad for Lebanon and the international community.  It’s ruining Lebanon’s economy, and it’s not getting Lebanon the attention it deserves to get Shibaa back…while I think Lebanon’s constitution is racist, and a disgrace to the democracy that we supposedly have, I think Hezbollah can gain political legitimacy as a party if it uses the international community to pressure Israel, just like a good chunk of Europe is doing.

  • Crossed

    Hezbollah is not a terror group. This is a group that stepped up when the government of Lebanon left it’s citizens of the south to die under Israeli terror. It is not involved in any political assassinations, there is no proof. It does not operate out of Lebanon, and is committed to Lebanon’s health and advancement.

    In this world, anyone who opposes Israel and its real terrorism is labelled a terrorist themself. I would rather defend my country and human rights as a whole then quietly turn a blind eye and let Israel ruin the lives of millions. Let Hezbollah be called a terror group… It means they are right all along. 

  • Anonymous

    Hezbollah is not a terror group. This is a group that stepped up when the government of Lebanon left it’s citizens of the south to die under Israeli terror. It is not involved in any political assassinations, there is no proof. It does not operate out of Lebanon, and is committed to Lebanon’s health and advancement.

    In this world, anyone who opposes Israel and its real terrorism is labelled a terrorist themself. I would rather defend my country and human rights as a whole then quietly turn a blind eye and let Israel ruin the lives of millions. Let Hezbollah be called a terror group… It means they are right all along. 

    • http://twitter.com/Mosetsfire84 Mohamad Masri

      Crossed,

      A political group doesn’t shoot nationals in their own home. As of May 7 2008 Hezbollah is irrevocably a terrorist organization. It’s about time Lebanese politicians stopped being quiet about this gang that has taken Lebanon hostage.
        

      • Anonymous

        Nationals are people who support the government. If you attack a communications network without a real government order you are not a national but a thug. If you attack a communications network that belongs to a group who has the right to operate in Lebanon and is armed, you are down right stupid. 

        • Anonymous

          the view that seniora govt was not a ‘real’ govt was and apparently is still used by HA as if it made sense.
          HA had no right to label a govt [in which his own ministers were in] ‘real” or not. 
          twisting and molding the lebanese constitution and interpreting it wrongly is not a good way to label anything past the rooms of its own house.

          the communication’s network is prooved to be a tool that monitored some later assassinated govt minister’s activities.
          it has nothing to do with spying from israel…if anything it had to do with irani spies on the lebanese  govt officials.
          only iditos would defend may 2008 with this poor excuse.

          enough ba2a de7ek 3al 3alaam.  

      • Anonymous

        Masri, I agree. It’s about time we disarm Hezbollah or at least have them join the army if they truly care for the country…like that’ll ever happen…but, I stress the importance that we disarm the other militias in Lebanon too.  I dislike Hezbollah, but I hate the other militias too.

    • Anonymous

      When you refer to “Israeli terror” in S. Lebanon, are referring to the occupation of S. Lebanon from 1982-2000, or the 2006 War?

      If you’re referring to the occupation, then during the years of 1982 to 2000, 172-189 Lebanese civilians were  killed while 90 Israeli civilians killed. (keep in mind that many of the Lebanese casualites were at the hand of Israeli-allied Lebanese themselves, like the SLA).

      Interesting figures if you compare them to Hezbollah’s bloody massacre against its own citizens in 2008, in which 93 Lebanese were killed because of them. (and that’s not a 18 year occupation, that’s only a few days of massacre).

      And if you’re talking about the 2006 War, while I admit that my country’s egregious use of force was both unnecessary and excessive and received no result, and apologize on behalf of my country, we can all agree that had Hezbollah never kidnapped those two reservniks in the first place, there would have been a war to begin with.

      So when you say that Hezbollah stepped up when S. Lebanese were left to die, you could also say they left them to die by putting citizens on S. Lebanon under Israeli fire by instigating war, and sentenced them to death.

      But of course they had to do it. After killing Hariri, they had to find a way to get the country back behind them (behind Syria and Iran). What better way than starting a war with Israel for no reason!!!

      • Anonymous

        How about the 20,000 people killed in West Beirut by Israel? In 1982. 

        • Anonymous

          That was a travesty and a black stain on my country’s history, and on behalf of my father’s generation, I apologize.

        • Anonymous

          How many Lebanese where killed by the PLO ?

        • Anonymous

          @master09:disqus  – PLO killed lots of Lebanese, but in the end the guilty one isn’t the one who killed most, but the one who killed…I’d put Syria, Israel, the PLO, Iran..etc..all guilty of warcrimes…they are all wrong for waht they did to lebanon….and we were wrong for siding with any of our political parties…let’s face it..nobody cared for Lebanon

        • http://www.cadmeia.com Hannibal

          How about the 500 000 maimed and killed and displaced at the hands of the PLO? The road to Jerusalem passes by 3yuun el siman and Jounieh they said… Now finally they got a GPS and know that jerusalem is Southwardly :P
          Now do not forget that the West side of Beirut stood by the PLO against their own Lebanese brothers until they finally woke up when East beirut stood by them against the Syrian occupation. The problem with the Lebanese people is the same we had for centuries… A muslim Lebanese considers a Muslim Pakistani more of a kin than a neighbor Lebanese or even a cousin from a different sect. I have heard Orthodox people say that an Orthodox in Russia is closer to me than a moslem in West Beirut. Admit it people, as long as your religion defines you there will be no Lebanon. What a f^cked up nation.

      • Anonymous

        The fact that many Lebanese were killed by the SLA does not excuse Israel. It provided arms and training and is still responsible for all the killings the SLA did. Sabra and Shatila also happened under the blessing of the IDF who provided a complete barricade of the areas. Death counts aren’t all that matter. Occupation is a very fearful environment, and amounts to terror. It makes living in your counrty impossible.

        Don’t get me wrong, I oppose the SLA just as much as the IDF.  

        You are misrepresenting facts. In 2008 hezbollah’s communication network was attacked by a non-state actor. They had all the right to repel such attack because it did not come from a Lebanese government acceptable under the constitution. What Israel did to Gaza and Lebanon is a massacre, not this.

        “egregious use of force was both unnecessary and excessive” So you sugar coat saying ” committed a masacre, violated human rights, and terrorized Lebanese”. But I agree with you, had Hezbollah not kidnapped the two soldiers none of that would have happened. But also, had Israel not occupied any land Lebanon lays claim to, then that operation also wouldn’t have happened. So since you want to play the blame game, we should go back further and blame the real source of the problem.

        I think I should end by saying one day I can accept a peace with Israel. And that can only happen when Israel retreats, gives back all the land it captured by war, evacuates all settlers and settlements, returns East J’lem, stops stealing Palestinian water resources and allows Palestinians to live independently. So basically all the rights Palestinians are negotiating for. Once that happens I’ll pressure the Lebanese government to make peace.

        On that note, since you call yourself a zionist, what should be done about Palestinian refugees? You believe that semetic and non-semetic jews who for 2000 years have not seen the holy land have a right to return. But Palestinians, many of whom still have keys to their old homes in what is now Israel, and were living there for the past 2000 years don’t have this same right? Please clarify your stance. Because if this true, zionism as a whole is racist and by nature leads to apartheid. Why should you be taken seriously if you openly call for wiping an entire people’s history from memory?

        • Anonymous

          Thanks for the reply, crossed.

          I have to disagree with your point ” But also, had Israel not occupied any land Lebanon lays claim to, then that operation also wouldn’t have happened.”

          The border was quiet for 6 years. The UN has confirmed that we fully retreated to the Blue line. Hezbollah kidnapped and murdered those men, who were reserve soldiers with wives and children, for absolutely no reason. Yea, I guess you could say if there was no Israeli occupation, there would be no Hezbollah, but at that moment in 2006, there was absolutely no crisis, no issue, and no reason to start shit. Hezbollah knew exactly what they were doing.

          As far as this issue of non-Semitic Jews, let me be clear that on a
          whole, all Jews, European, Middle Eastern, and North African, are all
          Semites. Genetic studies have proven time and time again that not only
          are Jews from all over the diaspora related more closely to each other
          than their host populations, but they are also more closely related to
          other Levantine people than anyone else. This has been proven over and
          over again and if you don’t believe me, you could find the information
          anywhere.

          But I must agree with you in that converts to Judaism should have no right to live here, as their ancestors never did.

          Now to get to your question about Zionist, I think your problem with Zionism has mostly to do with a misconception.

          Zionism means for a homeless people to return home after 2000 miserable years of exile. It doesn’t mean we need our entire home, or that nobody else can live here, but it does mean that we DO have the right to live here.

          Zionism is not at all racist. Nor is it anti a specific religion. Arabs, both Druze and Bedouin, as well as Circassian Muslims, have accepted Israeli nationality and are very patriotic and proud Israelis. They all, by their own choice, join the army, contribute proudly to the state and many, particularly the Druze, are actually pretty right-wing and very Zionist.

          Let me also say that Zionism, in an obsession with its own legitimacy, made sure to acquire all of its lands legally from the beginning until 1948. I challenge you to find even one Zionist settlement settled before 1948 that was not purchased totally legally and legitimately from its original Arab or Turkish landowners.

          Not only that, but Palestine was proposed to be partitioned in 1936 into a very tiny Jewish state (consisting only of the Galilee and coastal strip to Tel Aviv) and a huge Arab state (comprising everything else). The Jews said yes. The Arabs said no. So even then, the Zionists were willing to give up huge portions of what they thought was their ancestral homeland in order to live in peace with their neighbors. The same thing happened in 1948, only this time, after saying no to partition again, the Arabs all invaded Israel, only to lose more land than they started. Same thing happened in 1967.

          However, the Zionists were willing to give up lands they legitimately won while trying to defend themselves from annihilation. This was clear in 1979, when Israel gave back the entire Sinai peninsula to Egypt for peace, while evacuating the tens of thousands of settlers who lived there.

          Peace with Egypt has been a strategic asset and it should be clear from that example that given the right circumstances, Israel would be willing to give up large parts of land and evacuate settlements, if true peace would be achieved.

          In that sense, I support a two state solution. I support giving up land for peace. For me, I’d rather live in part of my homeland peacefully than continually fight for all of it. My family came here as refugees from Morocco, and have never asked for compensation. There were almost a million Jews who were forced out of their homes in Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years, after the founding of the state of Israel. There should be no compensation for Palestinian refugees either. They can go to Palestine once it is established and build their lives their just like we came and built our lives here. Jerusalem should be split based on demographics. End of story. But it must be a TRUE peace. One where Arabs accept our presence here as legitimate as long as we accept theirs. Where we learn each other’s stories in school. Where we do business with each other and can finally cry and laugh with each other as brothers and equals.

          I would say 75% of Israelis share this position. But we are scared, form the example in Gaza and S. Lebanon, that if we withdraw from land, we will get nothing but rockets. So we are cautious. There are no more Anwar Sadats. Hamas and Hezbollah continue to say that they won’t stop the “resistance” until we’re gone. But that fear has nothing to do with Zionism

          As small as Israel would have been has the Arabs accepted partition in
          1936, I still wish it had happened. Not only would there have been no
          Holocaust, but there would have been no Arab-Israeli conflict, and millions of countless lives would have been saved. It’s not
          about a land grab. It’s about having somewhere to live in peace. Put yourself in an Israelis shoes. What would you feel?

      • Anonymous

        Thanks eblashko, I like that you reply with respect.

        We can debate the origins of the conflict for years, but only today and tomorrow matters. That’s my problem with zionism. You asked me how I would feel, and my answer is the same way. I would feel as if I needed a home and land to call my own. But I would not evict another peoples from their lands. I ask you to put yourself in the Palestinian’s shoes now. One day an armed soldier knocks at your door and instructs you leave. He is Jewish. You find it odd because for tens of years, before Israel was born Muslims and Jews lived side by side in peace. This is exactly why many rabbis the world over reject zionism. So what would you do?

        I think the first thing you’d do is grab your family and leave then maybe arm yourself and reject the idea of European jews imposing their will on the land you are living on. This is why we have a couple million Palestinian refugees. They have all the right to return to the land that they were living on, not another land in a future Palestinian state. You claim this same right, so you must accept their calls. This is my problem with zionism and why I think it’s racist and should be shut out. It calls for a jewish homeland… on top of a homeland that already has people living on it. These Palestinians should become Israeli citizens once peace is achieved.

        I know what you’re thinking, “if we let them back Israel might not have a strong jewish majority”. But you said zionism calls for a home for the jews to live in peace. Allowing Palestinians to return would not endanger Israelis. Do you really want to live side by side? If you do, this injustice done to the Palestinians must be corrected.

        I also know that some land was bought out AFTER Israel declared statehood. Infact Israel occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. How do you explain that?

        Again I say as a strong supporter of resistance against Israel that I will happily accept a peace with Israel if it rights its wrongs. Palestinians must return to their lands inside and outside of Israel, and Israel must allow the creation of a Palestinian state through negotiations based on the 1967 borders. If the Palestine issue is settled, the refugee issue is settled, only then can the Arabs and Israelis be at peace.

        • Anonymous

          Respect is the only way to have these discussions. 

          I have put myself in Palestinian shoes. That’s why I agree in giving up land for peace. They should have a country to realize their national potential and flourish. But their old houses are gone, just like our old homes are gone. Everybody was wronged. My Moroccan family was settled in Be’er Sheva, which Palestinians had never lived in, but even if they had, I’ll consider the Moroccan government’s seizure of my great grandfather’s property and pension (which he earned by working for the Moroccan government for 40 years) as payment for the land where we live today. 
          Did you know that Palestinian refugees in Arab countries are the only refugees in the world where refugee status is passed from parent to child? That’s the reason for a refugee crisis today. If they had been absorbed into the countries they left to, there would be no issue, but the Arab countries needed the refugees to always have an issue with Israel. And the hypocrisy is disgusting. Armenians, who aren’t even Arabs, came to Lebanon as refugees not long before the Palestinians, and were accepted as citizens and absorbed. There is no question as to their Lebanese nationality. But The Palestinians, close cousins of the Lebanese, are treated like animals, and Lebanon somehow blames Israel for this. Have you heard of the massacres committed by the Palestinians against the Jews in Israel in 1920, 1929, and 1936. This is before the state and before any Arab left their homes. They made it very clear that there would be no living together peacefully. That’s why partition of the land into 2 states for 2 peoples was decided as the accepted strategy to solve the problem. The Jews have accepted every partition plan ever offered. The Arabs have rejected every partition plan ever offered. And the picture you painted of the Israeli soldier coming to the house, as romantic as it seems, is true probably in a handful of cases, like Dir Yassin, who’s residents were very hostile and which occupied a strategic position on the Tel Aviv – Jerusalem road. The causes of the refugee conflict are a great debate, and it’s very convenient to blame Israel, but the reality is that most fled on their own, on the urging of the Jordanian Arab Legion, so that they could clear out the Jews without having to worry about civilian casualties. The proof is that over 20% of the country is Arab Muslim today, which is proof that if we practiced ethnic cleansing, we did a bad job. What would be the point in making two states if both of them would be Palestinian anyway?You say “I also know that some land was bought out AFTER Israel declared statehood. Infact Israel occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. How do you explain that?” I  don’t really know what you mean, so please explain. There was not even one refugee created before any Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. It was the Arab soldiers, by declaring war on tiny Israel, which started the conflict. And the land was bought before the war, not after, starting with Rishon Letzion in 1882, each settlement’s land wads bought totally legally, including Tel Aviv and the area around it (where over half of Israelis live today) as well as the Jezerel Valley, Eastern Galilee, Carmel Mountain and Coastal plain, plus a few places in the empty Negev, which nobody but Bedouins and ancient Israelis had ever lived. But all this is the past, and even though I am positive without a doubt that I am on the side of justice, I’m sure I won’t be able to convince you that I am. But I shouldn’t need to. We shouldn’t look to the past to solve our problems. We should look to the future. So should Palestinian refugees. They can have a country and build new homes. Things have changed since 1948. Most refugees have probably never even seen Palestine. So what’s the difference if they go to Nablus or Ramallah or Hebron or Jerusalem or Gaza or Jericho? Their old homes are gone just like our old homes are gone. But they can build new ones in their land just like we did. Look to the future, not the past. Israelis, including myself, would prefer constant war than a right of return, which we see as a death sentence, since the Arabs refuse to not want to kill us. 

        • Anonymous

          Respect is the only way to have these discussions. 

          I have put myself in Palestinian shoes. That’s why I agree in giving up land for peace. They should have a country to realize their national potential and flourish. But their old houses are gone, just like our old homes are gone. Everybody was wronged. My Moroccan family was settled in Be’er Sheva, which Palestinians had never lived in, but even if they had, I’ll consider the Moroccan government’s seizure of my great grandfather’s property and pension (which he earned by working for the Moroccan government for 40 years) as payment for the land where we live today. 
          Did you know that Palestinian refugees in Arab countries are the only refugees in the world where refugee status is passed from parent to child? That’s the reason for a refugee crisis today. If they had been absorbed into the countries they left to, there would be no issue, but the Arab countries needed the refugees to always have an issue with Israel. And the hypocrisy is disgusting. Armenians, who aren’t even Arabs, came to Lebanon as refugees not long before the Palestinians, and were accepted as citizens and absorbed. There is no question as to their Lebanese nationality. But The Palestinians, close cousins of the Lebanese, are treated like animals, and Lebanon somehow blames Israel for this. Have you heard of the massacres committed by the Palestinians against the Jews in Israel in 1920, 1929, and 1936. This is before the state and before any Arab left their homes. They made it very clear that there would be no living together peacefully. That’s why partition of the land into 2 states for 2 peoples was decided as the accepted strategy to solve the problem. The Jews have accepted every partition plan ever offered. The Arabs have rejected every partition plan ever offered. And the picture you painted of the Israeli soldier coming to the house, as romantic as it seems, is true probably in a handful of cases, like Dir Yassin, who’s residents were very hostile and which occupied a strategic position on the Tel Aviv – Jerusalem road. The causes of the refugee conflict are a great debate, and it’s very convenient to blame Israel, but the reality is that most fled on their own, on the urging of the Jordanian Arab Legion, so that they could clear out the Jews without having to worry about civilian casualties. The proof is that over 20% of the country is Arab Muslim today, which is proof that if we practiced ethnic cleansing, we did a bad job. What would be the point in making two states if both of them would be Palestinian anyway?You say “I also know that some land was bought out AFTER Israel declared statehood. Infact Israel occupied almost 78% of Palestine and had evicted over 800,000 refugees while simultaneously demolishing their homes and villages. These events had taken place before one single Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. How do you explain that?” I  don’t really know what you mean, so please explain. There was not even one refugee created before any Arab soldier intervened in the conflict. It was the Arab soldiers, by declaring war on tiny Israel, which started the conflict. And the land was bought before the war, not after, starting with Rishon Letzion in 1882, each settlement’s land wads bought totally legally, including Tel Aviv and the area around it (where over half of Israelis live today) as well as the Jezerel Valley, Eastern Galilee, Carmel Mountain and Coastal plain, plus a few places in the empty Negev, which nobody but Bedouins and ancient Israelis had ever lived. But all this is the past, and even though I am positive without a doubt that I am on the side of justice, I’m sure I won’t be able to convince you that I am. But I shouldn’t need to. We shouldn’t look to the past to solve our problems. We should look to the future. So should Palestinian refugees. They can have a country and build new homes. Things have changed since 1948. Most refugees have probably never even seen Palestine. So what’s the difference if they go to Nablus or Ramallah or Hebron or Jerusalem or Gaza or Jericho? Their old homes are gone just like our old homes are gone. But they can build new ones in their land just like we did. Look to the future, not the past. Israelis, including myself, would prefer constant war than a right of return, which we see as a death sentence, since the Arabs refuse to not want to kill us. 

    • Anonymous

      Good golly, are we still talking about Israel’s occupation of the south?  Come on man, stop living the past!  You guys just fixated with Israel’s occupation of the past.

      The only ones who are occupying Lebanon today, is the Hezbollah through it’s terror on the Lebanese people who opposes this terrorist/criminal organization. Hezbollah are the ones ruining the lives of so many in Lebanon.

      • Anonymous

        Oh whatever. People still get fixated about other war crimes, occupations,and genocides AFTER THEY”VE BEEN SOLVED. You want to know why people still complain about the occupation of the South? it’s because justice hasn’t been served. Sure the Israeli army left, but they haven’t been charged with just war crimes( same with Hezbollah mind you), and Israel still illegally occupies Shibaa farms.

        While I don’t deny that Hezbollah is playing a role in the destruction of Lebanon, you sir are completely wrong for just saying “it’s the past”

        Unless your home has been occupied by a foreign army, unless you or your family have been sent to prisons or tortured, then I don’t think you are justified whatsoever in claiming that “it’s the past, get over it”.

        I’m absolutely disgusted with that statement.

    • Anonymous

      Lets look at what you have mentioned and state the facts.
      1.Hezbollah is not a terror group.
      Im not going to argue that. After all one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
      2.Lebanon left it’s citizens of the south to die under Israeli terror.
      We had no government at the time and when we did Syria and HA refused to let the Army into the south.
      3.It is not involved in any political assassinations, there is no proof.
      Captain wissam Eid was killed because he had evidence. No one could bring a 1000 kg into Lebanon then plan it in downtown beirut with millions of people and visitors walking around without a city permit to dig a hole in the middle of the street. Then after the blast the hole was ordered covered with in 2 hours. Phone conversations between a HA cell operating in Downtown stopped after the blast. 5 numbers were tracked and these numbers only contacted one another except one witch made a call to a female who turned out to be the lover of a HA member but he disappeared. So yes no solid proof until now but lots of lose ends and fingers pointing in a certain way. No smoke without fire as they say. 
      4.It does not operate out of Lebanon, and is committed to Lebanon’s health and advancement.
      No need the assassinations were all in Lebanon.But please dont be stupid! Just last year they had a cell found in Egypt or has that become part of Lebanon now?
      5.I would rather defend my country and human rights as a whole
      then quietly turn a blind eye and let Israel ruin the lives of millions.
      Thats very noble of you. Im sure the city you live in (Canada, Europe, Australia or the U.S) will give you that chance without labeling you a traitor. Also why may 7 then? What about the poeple that ran against HA in the elections and had homes attacked and were beaten in some cases?
      6.Let Hezbollah be called a terror group… It means they are right all along.
      Well yes you have a point but the only problem is that Lebanese are also calling it a terror group not just westerners.

      How about HA defend Lebanon by stopping Illegal construction on public property in the areas they control. Stop attacking the Lebanese police when they enter these areas. Stop marching around in black uniforms with or without weapons like they did in Jan-2011 when they acted out on a coup against the elected government and before that in may 2008. How about the drugs that are grown in the areas they control stop being grown. stolen cars held for cash ransom in dahiya and the balbak areas are a common thing now.

      THE JEWS TURNED INTO THE NAZI AFTER WW2 AND HA HAS TURNED INTO THE JEWS. EVOLUTION IS A BITCH!

      • Anonymous

        1. True
        2. We did have government, it was in paralysis. My point was that the state failed to protect the people and therefore the people have all the right to arm and defend themselves. This is international law.
        3. What you said was first reported in a German news report. It showed no proof, citing only “informed sources”. I would agree with you and blame Hezbollah if there was legitimate proof but there just isn’t. Anyone can report anything, only a fool accepts without questioning.
        4. Thats true, I should have been more descriptive. I ment to say that Hezbollah is not involved in military style operations, such as assassinations, outside of Lebanon.
        6. But the rest of the world, and the clear majority of Lebanese, don’t.

        • Anonymous

          back to the open discussion.
          2. I mentioned when we had a government HA and Syria would not allow the Army to enter the South.
          3. You say no proof others say the STL has the proof and thats why HA are scared. They thought killing him would end it. they didnt know info had been passed on. Thats why we ended up witht he coup in jan-2011 otherwise it would have ended with eid.
          4.They were sending weapons via Egypt into Gaza. I was in the Military and that is a classic  non combat military type operation witch requires a lot of planning and organization. Smuggle weapons from Iran or Syria via Lebanon into Egypt sounds too easy so the weapons they were sending into Gaza must have come from another country meaning they are operating in more than Syria and Iran. Also HA has a chapter in Iraq witch is very active with sader and his mihdi army. They are also accused of other things in many other countries including Argentina where a Jewish center was blown up.
          6. Europe, America, Canada, Russia, Australia list it as a terror group and that is about 60% of the world. China is 20% but they dont count because I hate Chinese food since Im on a diet and they are too busy polluting the air and making really bad movies but still HA is listed as a terror group in China and in India the other 20% of the world who also have very bad food (I hate Indian food more than I hate HA and Aoun combined. Dont get your hopes up I may cozy up to Indian food but not Aoun and HA if I have to) Thats the entire world almost except for the Middle East who will list it as a terror group soon, Syria who will be too busy with Syria soon and the One thing I hate more than Indian food, HA, Aoun and my bills combined IRAN THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF HEROIN ADDICTION SINCE THEY HAVE ABOUT 18% OF THE POPULATION HOOKED ON HEROIN (THEY SAY 18% BUT REMEMBER THEY ALSO SAY THEY HAVE NO GAY PEOPLE IN IRAN SO IT MUST BE MORE LIKE 30%)

        • Anonymous

          I like how you blame the government for the demise of South Lebanon.
          The Lebanese Civil war and the PLO had nothing to do with israels invasion of 1982??!

    • Anonymous

      “Hezbollah is not a terror group…”
       
      from one low to another, the latest but not the greatest news depicting hezballah’s memorable “achievements”: they are helping the syrian regime crush the revolt they are facing by sending snipers from lebanon to syria and stationing them on buildings rooftops with orders to shoot at demonstrators, thus antagonizing  the syrian population at large and compromising the neutral peaceful position that lebanon is supposed to adopt regarding political events in the middle east and worldwide.  

    • Anonymous

      After 2000, I have two opinions about Hezbollah, and they clash. Hezbollah does have a right to oppose Israel for more than just its war crimes against the Palestinians..Israel still occupies some of Lebanon, which is illegal.  Now, despite that, I think Hezbollah’s approach to it is bad for Lebanon and the international community.  It’s ruining Lebanon’s economy, and it’s not getting Lebanon the attention it deserves to get Shibaa back…while I think Lebanon’s constitution is racist, and a disgrace to the democracy that we supposedly have, I think Hezbollah can gain political legitimacy as a party if it uses the international community to pressure Israel, just like a good chunk of Europe is doing.

  • Anonymous

    Hezbollah is not a terror group. This is a group that stepped up when the government of Lebanon left it’s citizens of the south to die under Israeli terror. It is not involved in any political assassinations, there is no proof. It does not operate out of Lebanon, and is committed to Lebanon’s health and advancement.

    In this world, anyone who opposes Israel and its real terrorism is labelled a terrorist themself. I would rather defend my country and human rights as a whole then quietly turn a blind eye and let Israel ruin the lives of millions. Let Hezbollah be called a terror group… It means they are right all along. 

  • ghzayel

    halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!

    finally, eventhough it is long overdue, some one in the 14th of march pacifist camp dares to label hezballah with the T WORD and i hope pm hariri and his future movement  agree with this statement and stick to it.

    the 14th of march leaders are lousy at seizing opportunities sometimes given to them on a silver platter. no one of those leaders so far dared to question hezballah for example about the recent lawsuit filed in the us accusing them of involvement in september 11, 2001 events.

    nevertheless i know this is the first step in a long journey for the 14th of march leaders to reestablish a strong, efffective political presence capable of withstanding the virulent attacks of the likes of hezballah, berri, aoun, wahab, etc.

    but the fact of simply issuing strong statements regarding hezballah to win the public opinion’s sympathy is not going to make any significant change in the current political scene in lebanon.   

    without addressing the difficult issue of all the illegal weapons out of the control of the lebanese government that are intimidating and threatening anybody who does’nt  jive with the line of thinking of those carrying the weapons, all of the 14th of march camp efforts will be gone with the wind.

  • ghzayel

    halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!

    finally, eventhough it is long overdue, some one in the 14th of march pacifist camp dares to label hezballah with the T WORD and i hope pm hariri and his future movement  agree with this statement and stick to it.

    the 14th of march leaders are lousy at seizing opportunities sometimes given to them on a silver platter. no one of those leaders so far dared to question hezballah for example about the recent lawsuit filed in the us accusing them of involvement in september 11, 2001 events.

    nevertheless i know this is the first step in a long journey for the 14th of march leaders to reestablish a strong, efffective political presence capable of withstanding the virulent attacks of the likes of hezballah, berri, aoun, wahab, etc.

    but the fact of simply issuing strong statements regarding hezballah to win the public opinion’s sympathy is not going to make any significant change in the current political scene in lebanon.   

    without addressing the difficult issue of all the illegal weapons out of the control of the lebanese government that are intimidating and threatening anybody who does’nt  jive with the line of thinking of those carrying the weapons, all of the 14th of march camp efforts will be gone with the wind.

  • Anonymous

    halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!

    finally some one in the 14th of march pacifist camp dares to label hezballah with the T WORD and i hope pm hariri and his future movement  agree with this statement and stick to it.

    i know this is the first step in a long journey for the 14th of march leaders to reestablish a strong, efffective political presence capable of withstanding the  virulent attacks of the likes of hezballah, berri, aoun, wahab, etc.

    but the fact of simply issuing strong statements regarding hezballah to win the public opinion’s sympathy is not going to make any significant change in the current political scene in lebanon.   

    without addressing the difficult issues of all the illegal weapons out of the control of the lebanese government that will continue to intimidate and threaten whomever does’nt  jive with their line of thinking, all of the 14th of march camp efforts will be gone in the wind.

  • Constantin7

    To Eblashko:

    Thank you for the historical facts you stated, and we as Lebanese know very well how some Arabs, especially the Druze, have embraced the Israeli state and even Zionism, this is typical of the Druze to side always with the strongest on the ground, but I am not sure if they are sincere about their support to Israel, but relying on appearance they seem sincere. As far as I am concerned, I wish that Lebannon and Israel sign a peace treaty as soon as possible. This peace would be great for both of our countries, especially to the Lebanese people living in the south. However. we need politicians in Lebanon and Israel that have the guts to ask for peace with the other party and push for it. With peace, the need for HA and the so-called resistance would not be needed any more. Tourism would boom in both countries, the Lebanese would benefit from the technological advances in Israel especially in Agriculture, irrigation, water preservation, etc…

    Too much blood, violence, war, destruction has happened….many on this site state they lost family in wars with Israel and I sympathize with them a lot (like Michael and Prophet both are from the South), but we cannot change the past. We should learn from the past and plan for a better future and the future starts NOW. Violence does not create but violence and this HA does not want to understand yet. Peace brings prosperity, confidence, trust and ability to plan for the future, but peace has to start in the hearts and minds of people, if there is no peace in the hearts there cannot be peace on the ground. The situation on the ground is a reflection of the situation in the hearts and minds.

    One last note about semitism: The jews, and the world for that matter, associate semitism to the jews which is wrong, because the jews are a fraction of the semite people, which includes a lot of Arabian peninsula Arabs like the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Lebanese, the Jordanians, the Saudis and the Yemenis. Sorry I don’t think the Moroccans are Semites, your origins are probably Berber from North Africa or simply from Spain, and since a child takes the religion of his mother in judaism, I cannot understand how can you trace the origins of ALL jews to semitism. What if the father is non-jew German and the mother is a Polish jew, the child is a semite anyways, because his mother is a jew??? Semites are a people not a religion. Like you for instance, you are an Arab jew, I am not sure that you are semite, but a Syrian or Iraki or Lebanese or Yemeni (jew or non-jew) are definitely semites.

    It is amusing to see an Israeli Arab (a Morrocan is an Arab regardless of religion) follow the Lebanese news on YALIBNAN.  :-)

    • eblashko

      Very kind words, Constantin. Thank you.

      You’re absolutely right. Peace and the future are the only way forward and we have a lot of gain from it. And as soon as it is achieved, I’ll be on the first bus to Beirut. Lebanon looks like such a cool, beautiful place. Such rich history and developed society. I would love it see it one day.

      About Semitism though, I have to clear it up. My family lived in Morocco for a few hundred years, we aren’t Moroccan. We’re Jews, who came to Morocco from Portugal when the Jews were expelled in 1497. But we’re not Spanish either. Originally we are from here but just got kicked from place to place until we wound up here again. The proof is that my grandmother and great grandmother when speaking Arabic to each other, don’t say Salaam, like most Arabs around the word, or Shalom, like in Hebrew, but Shlama, which is Aramaic, the language spoken by the Jews before our exile.

      The Jews, sort of like the Druze, are an ethno-religious group. Very tight knit and insular. Kept to ourselves. Very littler intermarriage with the outside world, and we discouraged conversion into Judaism. (It has also punishable by death in Christian Europe and the Muslim Middle East). We kept our own religion and languages wherever we lived, so much so that the prayers of a Yemenite Jew are the same as the prayers of a Russian Jew. And it is also that reason that there are many diseases that effect only Jews, like Tay-Sachs disease, or Gaucher’s disease.

      There are plenty of genetic tests done on the Jewish populations of the world. Almost all of them point to the fact that European, North African, and Middle Eastern Jews are all more closely related to each other than their host populations and that of all peoples of the world, we’re closest Levantine populations than anyone else. We’re cousins, man.

      You are right that Judaism passes only from the mother, but that’s the
      religion, not the race. I am not religious, but consider myself a Jew,
      or maybe more appropriately, a Hebrew. I’ve had my genetic tests done for me and my family’s y-chromosome and mitochondria (how you test ancestry) and it has proven that both my Moroccan family and my Polish family (I’m half and half), both paternally and maternally, are from the same Eastern-Mediterranean origins, and aren’t Slavic or Berber.

      Check it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

      You’ll find we’re probably closer to each other than anyone else. It’s no surprise that Phoenician and Hebrew were mutually intelligible languages. Beirut, in Hebrew Be’erot, means “wells”.

  • Anonymous

    To Eblashko:

    Thank you for the historical facts you stated, and we as Lebanese know very well how some Arabs, especially the Druze, have embraced the Israeli state and even Zionism, this is typical of the Druze to side always with the strongest on the ground, but I am not sure if they are sincere about their support to Israel, but relying on appearance they seem sincere. As far as I am concerned, I wish that Lebannon and Israel sign a peace treaty as soon as possible. This peace would be great for both of our countries, especially to the Lebanese people living in the south. However. we need politicians in Lebanon and Israel that have the guts to ask for peace with the other party and push for it. With peace, the need for HA and the so-called resistance would not be needed any more. Tourism would boom in both countries, the Lebanese would benefit from the technological advances in Israel especially in Agriculture, irrigation, water preservation, etc…

    Too much blood, violence, war, destruction has happened….many on this site state they lost family in wars with Israel and I sympathize with them a lot (like Michael and Prophet both are from the South), but we cannot change the past. We should learn from the past and plan for a better future and the future starts NOW. Violence does not create but violence and this HA does not want to understand yet. Peace brings prosperity, confidence, trust and ability to plan for the future, but peace has to start in the hearts and minds of people, if there is no peace in the hearts there cannot be peace on the ground. The situation on the ground is a reflection of the situation in the hearts and minds.

    One last note about semitism: The jews, and the world for that matter, associate semitism to the jews which is wrong, because the jews are a fraction of the semite people, which includes a lot of Arabian peninsula Arabs like the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Lebanese, the Jordanians, the Saudis and the Yemenis. Sorry I don’t think the Moroccans are Semites, your origins are probably Berber from North Africa or simply from Spain, and since a child takes the religion of his mother in judaism, I cannot understand how can you trace the origins of ALL jews to semitism. What if the father is non-jew German and the mother is a Polish jew, the child is a semite anyways, because his mother is a jew??? Semites are a people not a religion. Like you for instance, you are an Arab jew, I am not sure that you are semite, but a Syrian or Iraki or Lebanese or Yemeni (jew or non-jew) are definitely semites.

    It is amusing to see an Israeli Arab (a Morrocan is an Arab regardless of religion) follow the Lebanese news on YALIBNAN.  :-)

    • Anonymous

      You just had to start talking about the Druze like they’re some species of morons or something.  Druze never side with the strongest on the ground. It was the decision of many Druze, but if that was the case, most Druze would have already fled Lebanon and Syria, so get over it.  I know many Druze who fled to Israel, and they did it so they can at least be able to provide their families because Israel happens to be a more stable country.  Man, this is such a lame website sometimes. You have people saying crap about Shiites, Druze, Islam, Jews…to both the Lebanese, Israelis, Syrians, and I guess Morrocans on this site, stop generalizing entire people..we clearly are all educated (apart from a few) yet we’re putting these ethnic/religion labels to people instead of judging by the content of their character. I’m from a Druze background, but I wouldn’t mind a Shiite or a Lebanese Jewish president if it means that he or she will do what’s best for Lebanon. I wanna actually be able to live in that place.

      • Anonymous

        Sorry Kareemthehippy, I was wrong to generalize about the Druze, you’re right, please accept my apologies. Someone like Marwan Hamade I respect him a lot, and there are many individual Druzes that I know who are respectful honorable people. This said, I cannot accept the fact that ALL the Druzes in Israel decided to support the state of Israel and especially to serve in the Israeli army and fight their Palestinian and Arab brothers. This is completely inacceptable from their part.

        • Anonymous

          No worries @Constantin7:disqus . Just like the Druze in Israel are fighting back at their own home-countries, like the Islamic extremists are blowing up their own people and fighting other people of their kind.. just like the KKK are killing their own Christian brothers and sisters in the US who aren’t White..it’s the same thing. This is why we must all judge each other by the content of our character and not neccesarily by our religious background. Even though I’m not religious, religion is a way for me to stay close to my family and embrace my ancestry.

      • Anonymous

         @kareemthehippy:disqus “Just like the Druze in Israel are fighting back at their own home-countries”

        Israel is the Druze in Israel’s home country. Druze have been allied with the Zionists since the 1880’s.

        • Anonymous

          Not neccesarily.  There were Druze who settled there when they fled Egypt in the past. However this is in reference to the huge influx of Druze who fled from Palestine in 1948 and from Lebanon in the civil war. 

          Your statement on the Druze being allied with Zionists is false. I’m sure there were Druze and still are who are allied with the Zionists, but not a majority.  If that was the scenario, things would be a bit more different in terms fo demographics in the Middle East, and Lebanese politics wold be alot different lol

      • Anonymous

         “Not neccesarily.  There were Druze who settled there when they fled
        Egypt in the past. However this is in reference to the huge influx of
        Druze who fled from Palestine in 1948 and from Lebanon in the civil
        war. 

        Your statement on the Druze being allied with Zionists is
        false. I’m sure there were Druze and still are who are allied with the
        Zionists, but not a majority.  If that was the scenario, things would be
        a bit more different in terms of demographics in the Middle East, and
        Lebanese politics wold be alot different lol”

        Yea, of course, Druze in Israel form a minority of Druze in the world, but that’s who I’m talking about, not the Druze everywhere. I didn’t know any came from Palestine in 1948. They were always just living here. I didn’t know any came during the civil war either from Lebanon, although I know we took thousands of Christians from the SLA (all of whom today are also good citizens and have been well accepted in society). I guess we took Druze too. But the vast majority of them had always been here, maybe originally from Egypt as you say, I’m not sure.

        It should be noted though that since the beginning of Zionism, Druze have been our allies here. From what my Druzi friends tell me, they never really got along so well with the Arabs, which is why they all live up in the mountains, both on the Carmel where I live, or in the upper Galilee. The Jews and the Israeli Druze have both grown and prospered because of each other. There was even a touching case a few months ago, the death of a 98 years old Druze guy from the Carmel who loved Jews so much that he volunteered with the British Army to fight the Nazis during world war II. Our friendship is very strong.

        • Anonymous

          The Druze in Palestine being the Druze who lived there before the Israeli occupation. Many refused to be part of the new state, but most probably did. The Druze have a hard time with extremists because they were formed by breaking apart from Shiite Islam, so the Druze aren’t Muslims but many claim them as so.

          In the Lebanese Civil War, many Druze escaped, especially when Syria came in and they dealt with three guns pointing at them..one held by Israel, one by Syria and its Lebanese proxies, and one by the Phalange. I know of Lebanese Druze who fled to Israel in the Civil War who come frmo near my hometown.

          Also, there was a show on an israeli tv channel with Druze soldiers in the 2006 war …and they asked “aren’t you worried about shooting at someone youre related to?” and one of them said “I mean, this is where my ancestory is from, not far from South Lebanon, but I don’t know them, but I hope I dont end up shooting one”

          The Druze fled from Egypt hundreds of years before the Israeli invasion. The Druze had their own pricipalities that generally cooperated with the Ottoman Empire and other principalities in the different territories.

    • Anonymous

      Hi Constantin. Thanks for your kind reply.

      You’re absolutely right. Peace and the future are the only way forward. We have SO MUCH to gain and nothing to lose. And as soon as there’s peace I will be on the first bus to Beirut. Lebanon is so beautiful beautiful with such an interesting history, I’d love to visit more than anywhere else the region. And I have immense respect for the Lebanese, as Lebanon was the only Arab country who didn’t expel its Jews after Israel became a country.

      Not just that, but I live in Haifa, and can see Lebanon from my window every time I look outside, yet I can never go. It’s an unbelievable waste.

      About the Semitism thing, let me first say that I am not religious, but am very proud of my Hebrew
      nationality, language, and history. My family does come from Morocco, and my grandmother speaks Arabic, but we were never considered Arab, either by the Arabs or by ourselves. Indeed we originally came to Morocco in 1497 when the Jews were expelled from Portugal, but we’re not Portuguese either. We only arrived there after being kicked out of somewhere else. And if you go back far enough, all Jews come from here.

      You’re right about Judaism as a religion passes from the mother, but to be fair, it’s a religion that has
      discouraged conversion and intermarriage and has kept itself very
      insular over the generations. In that way, we’re kind of like other ethno-religious groups, such as the Druze, Maronites, Assyrians, or Alawites. Remember also that in Christian
      Europe and the Muslim Middle East, conversion to Judaism was punishable
      by death. If you check they history, you’ll find very little evidence of
      conversion into Judaism in the past 2,000 years, which is why today our community is riddled with genetic diseases like Tay-Sachs and Gauchers which affect only Jews.

      And all the genetic studies prove that Jews from
      Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East are more closely related to
      each other than their host populations, but that our closest relatives
      are other Levantine and Middle Eastern populations. Any study on the
      subject will prove this. We’re cousins, man!

      I’ve had my y-chromosomes and mitochondria tested (the things which tell paternal and maternal ancestry respectively) and it has proven both on my Moroccan side as well as my Polish and Hungarian sides (I’m a mix, like most Israelis), that my ancestors, like yours, are originally from here.

      Wikipedia :”genetic studies on Jews” for more info or to see for yourself. Like I said, man, we’re all Canaanite cousins. Almost all of your politicians (Jumblatt,
      Chamoun, Gamayel, Mikati, Hariri, etc.) would not even get a second glance if
      they walked around Jerusalem or Tel Aviv and claim that they were Jews. And I could probably walk around Beirut and not get a second glance if I said I were Lebanese.

      Again, thanks for your kind reply. It fills me with hope to know there are people on the other side who want peace just as much as me.

    • http://www.cadmeia.com Hannibal

      Constantin,
      If you knew your history you will find out that the Druze and the Maronites fought MORE wars together as one against invaders than against each others. Secondly, the majority of the Druze are against Jumblat who switched side and there is nothing to be ashamed of to switch allegiance to survive specially if your numbers are dwindling at a rapid rate. The Christians of Syria stand by the regime all the time for their own survival. The Christian Orthodox SSNPs stand by Bashar  despite their allegiance to Syria and Bashar is the worst thing that ever happened to Syria. Labeling a sect under one umbrella is not fair to those who are outliers.
      Secondly, I am Lebanese yet not a semite. Semitism died some 3000 years ago yet people insist in labeling themselves as such to stand out as they have a complex of inferiority. It is like saying in 2000 years from now Americans are Red Indians (native americans). Get over it people, 3500 years later and we are a bastard nation like any other.

      • Anonymous

        To your other comment (no reply link there, so I put it here).

        The comment about Moroccan payback was meant to be a joke. It was supposed to sound ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as us letting Palestinians back into Israel.

        First, you say what’s done is done and to look to the future. Then you say we must let them back to their homes. NO! That’s not going to happen, and if they insist, they will insist forever.  They can go to Palestine once they stop acting like children and agree to establish it, but their solution isn’t here. 7 million Jews live here now. Times change. Tough break. Get over it. Nobody is saying they can’t have a country, and nobody is saying that country won’t be in their historic homeland, but it won’t be in Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, and Ramle like Hamas wants. As far as it being in Lebanon, that’s for you to decide, and if you want, send them away, but they no longer belong here just like I no longer belong in Morocco, Poland, or Hungary.

        And I don’t consider Arabs all one nation. They consider themselves one nation, which is why none of them have peace with us. It has nothing to do with them being Muslim, as we have relations with many Muslim states (Turkey, Maldives, Albania, Azerbaijan, and the Central Asian Countries, etc). In 1967, after we captured all that territory while defending ourselves, the Arab League came together in Khartoum and established the three No’s – No recognition. No Negotiation. No Peace, and in 2002, the Arabs decided that they would only make peace with Israel collectively. Why? You’re right!! What does Palestine have to do with Morocco?!?!?! NOTHING!!! So why did they kick us out?!? Why is there no peace today with Morocco and Israel? It’s not just Morocco. Why did we get kicked out of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya?? Because whether or not all Arabs are one nation, they all still act like it.

        You want to convince me that you guys aren’t Arabs. Leave the Arab League. Say proudly and strongly “no more Syrian or Saudi or Iranian or Israeli intervention. We are Lebanese, not Arab. We’ll make peace with Israel in exchange for the Sheba farms because it’s in our best interest not to be at war with a neighbor for no reason and we won’t keep refusing peace because the big bad Arab league says so. We’ll kick the Palestinians out because they don’t belong here, and since we’re not Arabs we owe them nothing!”

        But now you’ll say. We don’t kick them out because they’re human, not because they’re Arabs. To that I’ll say… well if they’re human, you sure treat them like animals. And what makes them different than the Armenians, who came as refugees and have full citizenship and rights?? Perhaps it was the Arab league decision that no refugees would be reabsorbed until the Zionist entity was destroyed.

        Lebanon, in defiance of the Arab League in 1967, didn’t enter the war against Israel. It was the best decision it ever made. If it had, I’m sure everything south of the Litani would be ours right now. Use that as a template. Likewise look at Jordan and Egypt. They defied the Arab League, made peace with us, and because of it, we’ve had solid peace for decades.

        But if you do everything the Arabs say, even if it hurts Lebanon in the
        end, (like the civil war, the occupations, no cabinet, etc.) then it
        doesn’t matter if you actually are Arabs or not.

  • Constantin7

    To Eblashko:

    Thank you for the historical facts you stated, and we as Lebanese know very well how some Arabs, especially the Druze, have embraced the Israeli state and even Zionism, this is typical of the Druze to side always with the strongest on the ground, but I am not sure if they are sincere about their support to Israel, but relying on appearance they seem sincere. As far as I am concerned, I wish that Lebannon and Israel sign a peace treaty as soon as possible. This peace would be great for both of our countries, especially to the Lebanese people living in the south. However. we need politicians in Lebanon and Israel that have the guts to ask for peace with the other party and push for it. With peace, the need for HA and the so-called resistance would not be needed any more. Tourism would boom in both countries, the Lebanese would benefit from the technological advances in Israel especially in Agriculture, irrigation, water preservation, etc…

    Too much blood, violence, war, destruction has happened….many on this site state they lost family in wars with Israel and I sympathize with them a lot (like Michael and Prophet both are from the South), but we cannot change the past. We should learn from the past and plan for a better future and the future starts NOW. Violence does not create but violence and this HA does not want to understand yet. Peace brings prosperity, confidence, trust and ability to plan for the future, but peace has to start in the hearts and minds of people, if there is no peace in the hearts there cannot be peace on the ground. The situation on the ground is a reflection of the situation in the hearts and minds.

    One last note about semitism: The jews, and the world for that matter, associate semitism to the jews which is wrong, because the jews are a fraction of the semite people, which includes a lot of Arabian peninsula Arabs like the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Lebanese, the Jordanians, the Saudis and the Yemenis. Sorry I don’t think the Moroccans are Semites, your origins are probably Berber from North Africa or simply from Spain, and since a child takes the religion of his mother in judaism, I cannot understand how can you trace the origins of ALL jews to semitism. What if the father is non-jew German and the mother is a Polish jew, the child is a semite anyways, because his mother is a jew??? Semites are a people not a religion. Like you for instance, you are an Arab jew, I am not sure that you are semite, but a Syrian or Iraki or Lebanese or Yemeni (jew or non-jew) are definitely semites.

    It is amusing to see an Israeli Arab (a Morrocan is an Arab regardless of religion) follow the Lebanese news on YALIBNAN.  :-)

  • kareemthehippy

    You just had to start talking about the Druze like they’re some species of morons or something.  Druze never side with the strongest on the ground. It was the decision of many Druze, but if that was the case, most Druze would have already fled Lebanon and Syria, so get over it.  I know many Druze who fled to Israel, and they did it so they can at least be able to provide their families because Israel happens to be a more stable country.  Man, this is such a lame website sometimes. You have people saying crap about Shiites, Druze, Islam, Jews…to both the Lebanese, Israelis, Syrians, and I guess Morrocans on this site, stop generalizing entire people..we clearly are all educated (apart from a few) yet we’re putting these ethnic/religion labels to people instead of judging by the content of their character. I’m from a Druze background, but I wouldn’t mind a Shiite or a Lebanese Jewish president if it means that he or she will do what’s best for Lebanon. I wanna actually be able to live in that place.

  • eblashko

    Very kind words, Constantin. Thank you.

    You’re absolutely right. Peace and the future are the only way forward and we have a lot of gain from it. And as soon as it is achieved, I’ll be on the first bus to Beirut. Lebanon looks like such a cool, beautiful place. Such rich history and developed society. I would love it see it one day.

    About Semitism though, I have to clear it up. My family lived in Morocco for a few hundred years, we aren’t Moroccan. We’re Jews, who came to Morocco from Portugal when the Jews were expelled in 1497. But we’re not Spanish either. Originally we are from here but just got kicked from place to place until we wound up here again. The proof is that my grandmother and great grandmother when speaking Arabic to each other, don’t say Salaam, like most Arabs around the word, or Shalom, like in Hebrew, but Shlama, which is Aramaic, the language spoken by the Jews before our exile.

    The Jews, sort of like the Druze, are an ethno-religious group. Very tight knit and insular. Kept to ourselves. Very littler intermarriage with the outside world, and we discouraged conversion into Judaism. (It has also punishable by death in Christian Europe and the Muslim Middle East). We kept our own religion and languages wherever we lived, so much so that the prayers of a Yemenite Jew are the same as the prayers of a Russian Jew. And it is also that reason that there are many diseases that effect only Jews, like Tay-Sachs disease, or Gaucher’s disease.

    There are plenty of genetic tests done on the Jewish populations of the world. Almost all of them point to the fact that European, North African, and Middle Eastern Jews are all more closely related to each other than their host populations and that of all peoples of the world, we’re closest Levantine populations than anyone else. We’re cousins, man.

    You are right that Judaism passes only from the mother, but that’s the
    religion, not the race. I am not religious, but consider myself a Jew,
    or maybe more appropriately, a Hebrew. I’ve had my genetic tests done for me and my family’s y-chromosome and mitochondria (how you test ancestry) and it has proven that both my Moroccan family and my Polish family (I’m half and half), both paternally and maternally, are from the same Eastern-Mediterranean origins, and aren’t Slavic or Berber.

    Check it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

    You’ll find we’re probably closer to each other than anyone else. It’s no surprise that Phoenician and Hebrew were mutually intelligible languages. Beirut, in Hebrew Be’erot, means “wells”.

  • eblashko

    Hi Constantin. Thanks for your kind reply.

    You’re absolutely right. Peace and the future are the only way forward. We have SO MUCH to gain and nothing to lose. And as soon as there’s peace I will be on the first bus to Beirut. Lebanon is so beautiful beautiful with such an interesting history, I’d love to visit more than anywhere else the region. And I have immense respect for the Lebanese, as Lebanon was the only Arab country who didn’t expel its Jews after Israel became a country.

    Not just that, but I live in Haifa, and can see Lebanon from my window every time I look outside, yet I can never go. It’s an unbelievable waste.

    About the Semitism thing, let me first say that I am not religious, but am very proud of my Hebrew nationality, language, and history. My family does come from Morocco, and my grandmother speaks Arabic, but we were never considered Arab, either by the Arabs or by ourselves. Indeed we originally came to Morocco in 1497 when the Jews were expelled from Portugal, but we’re not Portuguese either. We only arrived there after being kicked out of somewhere else. And if you go back far enough, all Jews come from here.

    You’re right about Judaism as a religion passes from the mother, but to be fair, it’s a religion that has discouraged conversion and intermarriage and has kept itself very insular over the generations. In that way, we’re kind of like other ethno-religious groups, such as the Druze, Maronites, Assyrians, Samaritans, or Alawites. Remember also that in Christian Europe and the Muslim Middle East, conversion to Judaism was punishable by death. If you check they history, you’ll find very little evidence of conversion into Judaism in the past 2,000 years, which is why today our community is riddled with genetic diseases like Tay-Sachs and Gauchers which affect only Jews.

    And all the genetic studies prove not just that Jews from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East are more closely related to each other than their host populations, but that our closest relatives are other Levantine and Middle Eastern populations. Any study on the subject will prove this. We’re cousins, man!

    I’ve had my y-chromosomes and mitochondria tested (the things which tell paternal and maternal ancestry respectively) and it has proven both on my Moroccan side as well as my Polish and Hungarian sides (I’m a mix, like most Israelis), that my ancestors, like yours, are originally from here.

    Wikipedia :”genetic studies on Jews” for more info or to see for yourself. Like I said, man, we’re all Canaanite cousins. Almost all of your politicians (Jumblatt, Chamoun, Gamayel, Mikati, Hariri, etc.) would not even get a second glance if they walked around Jerusalem or Tel Aviv and claim that they were Jews. And I could probably walk around Beirut and not get a second glance if I said I were Lebanese.

    Again, thanks for your kind reply. It fills me with hope to know there are people on the other side who want peace just as much as me.

  • Hannibal

    Constantin,
    If you knew your history you will find out that the Druze and the Maronites fought MORE wars together as one against invaders than against each others. Secondly, the majority of the Druze are against Jumblat who switched side and there is nothing to be ashamed of to switch allegiance to survive specially if your numbers are dwindling at a rapid rate. The Christians of Syria stand by the regime all the time for their own survival. The Christian Orthodox SSNPs stand by Bashar  despite their allegiance to Syria and Bashar is the worst thing that ever happened to Syria. Labeling a sect under one umbrella is not fair to those who are outliers.
    Secondly, I am Lebanese yet not a semite. Semitism died some 3000 years ago yet people insist in labeling themselves as such to stand out as they have a complex of inferiority. It is like saying in 2000 years from now Americans are Red Indians (native americans). Get over it people, 3500 years later and we are a bastard nation like any other.

  • eblashko

    To your other comment (no reply link there, so I put it here).

    The comment about Moroccan payback was meant to be a joke. It was supposed to sound ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as us letting Palestinians back into Israel.

    First, you say what’s done is done and to look to the future. Then you say we must let them back to their homes. NO! That’s not going to happen, and if they insist, they will insist forever.  They can go to Palestine once they stop acting like children and agree to establish it, but their solution isn’t here. 7 million Jews live here now. Times change. Tough break. Get over it. Nobody is saying they can’t have a country, and nobody is saying that country won’t be in their historic homeland, but it won’t be in Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, and Ramle like Hamas wants. As far as it being in Lebanon, that’s for you to decide, and if you want, send them away, but they no longer belong here just like I no longer belong in Morocco, Poland, or Hungary.

    And I don’t consider Arabs all one nation. They consider themselves one nation, which is why none of them have peace with us. It has nothing to do with them being Muslim, as we have relations with many Muslim states (Turkey, Maldives, Albania, Azerbaijan, and the Central Asian Countries, etc). In 1967, after we captured all that territory while defending ourselves, the Arab League came together in Khartoum and established the three No’s – No recognition. No Negotiation. No Peace, and in 2002, the Arabs decided that they would only make peace with Israel collectively. Why? You’re right!! What does Palestine have to do with Morocco?!?!?! NOTHING!!! So why did they kick us out?!? Why is there no peace today with Morocco and Israel? It’s not just Morocco. Why did we get kicked out of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya?? Because whether or not all Arabs are one nation, they all still act like it.

    You want to convince me that you guys aren’t Arabs. Leave the Arab League. Say proudly and strongly “no more Syrian or Saudi or Iranian or Israeli intervention. We are Lebanese, not Arab. We’ll make peace with Israel in exchange for the Sheba farms because it’s in our best interest not to be at war with a neighbor for no reason and we won’t keep refusing peace because the big bad Arab league says so. We’ll kick the Palestinians out because they don’t belong here, and since we’re not Arabs we owe them nothing!”

    But now you’ll say. We don’t kick them out because they’re human, not because they’re Arabs. To that I’ll say… well if they’re human, you sure treat them like animals. And what makes them different than the Armenians, who came as refugees and have full citizenship and rights?? Perhaps it was the Arab league decision that no refugees would be reabsorbed until the Zionist entity was destroyed.

    Lebanon, in defiance of the Arab League in 1967, didn’t enter the war against Israel. It was the best decision it ever made. If it had, I’m sure everything south of the Litani would be ours right now and there would have been many needless deaths on both sides. Use that as a template. Likewise look at Jordan and Egypt. They defied the Arab League, made peace with us, and because of it, we’ve had solid peace for decades, and I’m sure countless lives that would have been lost were saved.

    But if you do everything the Arabs say, even if it hurts Lebanon in the end, (like the civil war, the occupations, no cabinet, etc.) then it doesn’t matter if you actually are Arabs or not.

  • eblashko

    To your other comment (no reply link there, so I put it here).

    The comment about Moroccan payback was meant to be a joke. It was supposed to sound ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as us letting Palestinians back into Israel.

    First, you say what’s done is done and to look to the future. Then you say we must let them back to their homes. NO! That’s not going to happen, and if they insist, they will insist forever.  They can go to Palestine once they stop acting like children and agree to establish it, but their solution isn’t here. 7 million Jews live here now. Times change. Tough break. Get over it. Nobody is saying they can’t have a country, and nobody is saying that country won’t be in their historic homeland, but it won’t be in Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, and Ramle like Hamas wants. As far as it being in Lebanon, that’s for you to decide, and if you want, send them away, but they no longer belong here just like I no longer belong in Morocco, Poland, or Hungary.

    And I don’t consider Arabs all one nation. They consider themselves one nation, which is why none of them have peace with us. It has nothing to do with them being Muslim, as we have relations with many Muslim states (Turkey, Maldives, Albania, Azerbaijan, and the Central Asian Countries, etc). In 1967, after we captured all that territory while defending ourselves, the Arab League came together in Khartoum and established the three No’s – No recognition. No Negotiation. No Peace, and in 2002, the Arabs decided that they would only make peace with Israel collectively. Why? You’re right!! What does Palestine have to do with Morocco?!?!?! NOTHING!!! So why did they kick us out?!? Why is there no peace today with Morocco and Israel? It’s not just Morocco. Why did we get kicked out of Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya?? Because whether or not all Arabs are one nation, they all still act like it.

    You want to convince me that you guys aren’t Arabs. Leave the Arab League. Say proudly and strongly “no more Syrian or Saudi or Iranian or Israeli intervention. We are Lebanese, not Arab. We’ll make peace with Israel in exchange for the Sheba farms because it’s in our best interest not to be at war with a neighbor for no reason and we won’t keep refusing peace because the big bad Arab league says so. We’ll kick the Palestinians out because they don’t belong here, and since we’re not Arabs we owe them nothing!”

    But now you’ll say. We don’t kick them out because they’re human, not because they’re Arabs. To that I’ll say… well if they’re human, you sure treat them like animals. And what makes them different than the Armenians, who came as refugees and have full citizenship and rights?? Perhaps it was the Arab league decision that no refugees would be reabsorbed until the Zionist entity was destroyed.

    Lebanon, in defiance of the Arab League in 1967, didn’t enter the war against Israel. It was the best decision it ever made. If it had, I’m sure everything south of the Litani would be ours right now and there would have been many needless deaths on both sides. Use that as a template. Likewise look at Jordan and Egypt. They defied the Arab League, made peace with us, and because of it, we’ve had solid peace for decades, and I’m sure countless lives that would have been lost were saved.

    But if you do everything the Arabs say, even if it hurts Lebanon in the end, (like the civil war, the occupations, no cabinet, etc.) then it doesn’t matter if you actually are Arabs or not.

  • Constantin7

    Sorry Kareemthehippy, I was wrong to generalize about the Druze, you’re right, please accept my apologies. Someone like Marwan Hamade I respect him a lot, and there are many individual Druzes that I know who are respectful honorable people. This said, I cannot accept the fact that ALL the Druzes in Israel decided to support the state of Israel and especially to serve in the Israeli army and fight their Palestinian and Arab brothers. This is completely inacceptable from their part.

  • Constantin7

    Sorry Kareemthehippy, I was wrong to generalize about the Druze, you’re right, please accept my apologies. Someone like Marwan Hamade I respect him a lot, and there are many individual Druzes that I know who are respectful honorable people. This said, I cannot accept the fact that ALL the Druzes in Israel decided to support the state of Israel and especially to serve in the Israeli army and fight their Palestinian and Arab brothers. This is completely inacceptable from their part.

  • eblashko

     @kareemthehippy:disqus “Just like the Druze in Israel are fighting back at their own home-countries”

    Israel is the Druze in Israel’s home country. Druze have been allied with the Zionists since the 1880’s.

  • eblashko

     @kareemthehippy:disqus “Just like the Druze in Israel are fighting back at their own home-countries”

    Israel is the Druze in Israel’s home country. Druze have been allied with the Zionists since the 1880’s.

  • eblashko

    In reply to your comment:  “Not neccesarily.  There were Druze who settled there when they fled Egypt in the past. However this is in reference to the huge influx of Druze who fled from Palestine in 1948 and from Lebanon in the civil
    war. 

    Your statement on the Druze being allied with Zionists is false. I’m sure there were Druze and still are who are allied with the Zionists, but not a majority.  If that was the scenario, things would be a bit more different in terms of demographics in the Middle East, and Lebanese politics wold be alot different lol”

    Yea, of course, Druze in Israel form a minority of Druze in the world, but that’s who I’m talking about, not the Druze everywhere. I didn’t know what you mean by “those who came from Palestine in 1948″. They were always just living here. I didn’t know any came during the civil war either from Lebanon, although I know we took thousands of Christians from the SLA (most of whom today are also good citizens and have been well accepted in society). I guess we took Druze too. But the vast majority of Israeli Druze had always been here, maybe originally from Egypt as you say, I’m not sure.

    It should be noted though that since the beginning of Zionism, Druze have been our allies here. From what my Druzi friends tell me, they never really got along so well with the Arabs, which is why they all live up in the mountains, both on the Carmel where I live, or in the upper Galilee. The Jews and the Israeli Druze have both grown and prospered because of each other. There was even a touching case a few months ago, the death of a 98 years old Druze guy from the Carmel who loved Jews so much that when he was young he volunteered with the British Army to fight the Nazis during world war II. All of Israel was very touched. Our friendship is very strong.

  • eblashko

    In reply to your comment:  “Not neccesarily.  There were Druze who settled there when they fled Egypt in the past. However this is in reference to the huge influx of Druze who fled from Palestine in 1948 and from Lebanon in the civil
    war. 

    Your statement on the Druze being allied with Zionists is false. I’m sure there were Druze and still are who are allied with the Zionists, but not a majority.  If that was the scenario, things would be a bit more different in terms of demographics in the Middle East, and Lebanese politics wold be alot different lol”

    Yea, of course, Druze in Israel form a minority of Druze in the world, but that’s who I’m talking about, not the Druze everywhere. I didn’t know what you mean by “those who came from Palestine in 1948″. They were always just living here. I didn’t know any came during the civil war either from Lebanon, although I know we took thousands of Christians from the SLA (most of whom today are also good citizens and have been well accepted in society). I guess we took Druze too. But the vast majority of Israeli Druze had always been here, maybe originally from Egypt as you say, I’m not sure.

    It should be noted though that since the beginning of Zionism, Druze have been our allies here. From what my Druzi friends tell me, they never really got along so well with the Arabs, which is why they all live up in the mountains, both on the Carmel where I live, or in the upper Galilee. The Jews and the Israeli Druze have both grown and prospered because of each other. There was even a touching case a few months ago, the death of a 98 years old Druze guy from the Carmel who loved Jews so much that when he was young he volunteered with the British Army to fight the Nazis during world war II. All of Israel was very touched. Our friendship is very strong.

  • kareemthehippy

    No worries @Constantin7:disqus . Just like the Druze in Israel are fighting back at their own home-countries, like the Islamic extremists are blowing up their own people and fighting other people of their kind.. just like the KKK are killing their own Christian brothers and sisters in the US who aren’t White..it’s the same thing. This is why we must all judge each other by the content of our character and not neccesarily by our religious background. Even though I’m not religious, religion is a way for me to stay close to my family and embrace my ancestry.

  • kareemthehippy

    No worries @Constantin7:disqus . Just like the Druze in Israel are fighting back at their own home-countries, like the Islamic extremists are blowing up their own people and fighting other people of their kind.. just like the KKK are killing their own Christian brothers and sisters in the US who aren’t White..it’s the same thing. This is why we must all judge each other by the content of our character and not neccesarily by our religious background. Even though I’m not religious, religion is a way for me to stay close to my family and embrace my ancestry.

  • kareemthehippy

    Not neccesarily.  There were Druze who settled there when they fled Egypt in the past. However this is in reference to the huge influx of Druze who fled from Palestine in 1948 and from Lebanon in the civil war. 

    Your statement on the Druze being allied with Zionists is false. I’m sure there were Druze and still are who are allied with the Zionists, but not a majority.  If that was the scenario, things would be a bit more different in terms fo demographics in the Middle East, and Lebanese politics wold be alot different lol

  • kareemthehippy

    The Druze in Palestine being the Druze who lived there before the Israeli occupation. Many refused to be part of the new state, but most probably did. The Druze have a hard time with extremists because they were formed by breaking apart from Shiite Islam, so the Druze aren’t Muslims but many claim them as so.

    In the Lebanese Civil War, many Druze escaped, especially when Syria came in and they dealt with three guns pointing at them..one held by Israel, one by Syria and its Lebanese proxies, and one by the Phalange. I know of Lebanese Druze who fled to Israel in the Civil War who come frmo near my hometown.

    Also, there was a show on an israeli tv channel with Druze soldiers in the 2006 war …and they asked “aren’t you worried about shooting at someone youre related to?” and one of them said “I mean, this is where my ancestory is from, not far from South Lebanon, but I don’t know them, but I hope I dont end up shooting one”

    The Druze fled from Egypt hundreds of years before the Israeli invasion. The Druze had their own pricipalities that generally cooperated with the Ottoman Empire and other principalities in the different territories.

  • kareemthehippy

    The Druze in Palestine being the Druze who lived there before the Israeli occupation. Many refused to be part of the new state, but most probably did. The Druze have a hard time with extremists because they were formed by breaking apart from Shiite Islam, so the Druze aren’t Muslims but many claim them as so.

    In the Lebanese Civil War, many Druze escaped, especially when Syria came in and they dealt with three guns pointing at them..one held by Israel, one by Syria and its Lebanese proxies, and one by the Phalange. I know of Lebanese Druze who fled to Israel in the Civil War who come frmo near my hometown.

    Also, there was a show on an israeli tv channel with Druze soldiers in the 2006 war …and they asked “aren’t you worried about shooting at someone youre related to?” and one of them said “I mean, this is where my ancestory is from, not far from South Lebanon, but I don’t know them, but I hope I dont end up shooting one”

    The Druze fled from Egypt hundreds of years before the Israeli invasion. The Druze had their own pricipalities that generally cooperated with the Ottoman Empire and other principalities in the different territories.