Does ouster of Egypt’s Morsi signal end of ‘political Islam’?

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religion politics crossroadAs Egypt faces growing unrest and uncertainty in the wake of President Mohammed Morsi’s ouster, many wonder what’s next for Middle Eastern leaders, especially Islamists dealing with their own grumbling — or worse — at home.

For Middle East leaders, the Egyptian military’s toppling of Morsi is either a welcome development, a bad omen or a lesson to learn, depending on whether they are secular rulers or Islamists.

“What has happened in Egypt in the last year has damaged the Islamist brand, and it’s not just about Egypt, it’s about the entire world,” said Fawaz Gerges, head of the Middle East center at the London School of Economics.

Syrian President Bashar Assad, who runs a largely secular government and whose own forces are fighting rebels allied to the Muslim Brotherhood, has been almost giddy, pronouncing Morsi’s downfall as the end of “political Islam.” By contrast, Islamist Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has faced massive protests at home for pushing for a more religious society, has unequivocally condemned the “coup,” and Tunisian leaders are watching the unfolding turmoil with deep concern.

Gerges said it’s too early to write an obituary for political Islam since Morsi’s downfall had much to do with inheriting a country in deep economic crisis that was plagued by decades of corruption and mismanagement.

“It’s one thing to say the Islamist movement is suffering, but it is another to say we are witnessing the end of political Islam, which is very silly because the Islamist movement has survived half a century of persecution,” he said.

In a statement Saturday, the White House said President Obama was concerned over the “continued political polarization” and called for calm during Egypt’s “transitional period.”

Emiliano Alessandri, an analyst with the German Marshall Fund of the United States in Washington, warned that Western hedging in the face of the Egyptian crisis will hurt democracy’s image in Middle Eastern countries.

“The about-face of Western diplomacies with Morsi will send a negative message to a lot of other Muslim groups and ordinary Muslims, confirming the impression of a prejudice against political Islam,” he said.

WATCHFUL TUNISIA

Events in Egypt are being closely watched in Tunisia — the birthplace of the 2011 Arab Spring — as secularists chafe under the rule of a popularly elected Islamist-led government.

In February, main secular opposition leader Chokri Belaid was gunned down by suspected extremists after increasingly violent sparring by the Islamist-led government and the opposition. The murder sparked days of protests before the prime minister announced he would dissolve the government for the sake of the country — a move his party opposed — and appoint non-partisan ministers.

Like Egypt, Tunisia has seen a split in society after the revolution in 2011. The Ennahdha movement, which won elections later that year, is accused of power grabs and of imposing Islamist ideals in what was the Muslim world’s most liberal society, while failing to fix an economy in deep crisis.

“What is happening in Egypt is followed closely in Tunisia because both countries are in a similar transition period,” said Sara Ben Hamadi, 28, a Tunisian blogger in Tunis. “Although the situation in Tunisia is different with an army that has always stayed out of the political game, it is necessary to learn from it: The Islamists won the elections but failed while at power.”

Though the biggest Tunisian opposition party hailed Morsi’s overthrow, calling for the same in Tunisia and a new technocratic government to finish writing the country’s constitution, Tunisian Prime Minister Ali Larayedh vowed Saturday that his government would embrace “consensus and partnership” to avoid a political meltdown similar to Egypt’s.

“The possibility of an Egypt scenario is unlikely in Tunisia because I have great confidence in the awareness of Tunisians and their ability to measure the potential of their country,” Larayedh told broadcaster France 24.

MORSI FINDS SUPPORT IN TURKEY

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called for Morsi’s immediate release from house arrest and reinstatement as elected leader. Erdogan has condemned statements from Western governments that have carefully avoided labeling the military intervention a “coup,” a move he calls a “double standard.”

“I am surprised by the West,” Erdogan said Saturday. “They can’t say this was a coup. What happened to their democratic ideals?”

Turkish cities have hosted pro-Morsi rallies: After Friday prayers at an 18th-century mosque in central Istanbul, hundreds marched carrying pictures of Morsi, as well as Turkish and Egyptian flags.

Among the marchers was Egyptian tourist Ahmed Laysee, 35, of Cairo who said he supported Morsi and applauded the Turkish stance.

“Both of the two governments are Islamist — Erdogan and Morsi have the same background — an Islamic background,” Laysee said. He predicted Egyptians loyal to the deposed president would sweep him back into power despite the dangers ahead. “I’m afraid of more violence. But freedom deserves some blood, you know?”

Erdogan’s own Islamist-rooted political party has faced public protests for more than a month. His decade-long rule has been focused on curtailing the power of Turkey’s military which forced the removal of four elected governments from 1960 to 1997.

SYRIANS DRAW OPPOSING LESSONS

As civil war rages in Syria, members of the divided political opposition wonder if Syria’s own branch of the Muslim Brotherhood will learn from Egypt’s example.

Members and allies of the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood have dominated the main opposition coalition since its inception. They draw different lessons — either Morsi alienated many in Egyptian society which caused his downfall, or he didn’t go far enough to consolidate power and rein in his own generals.

“Morsi and his colleagues believed that putting others aside and forbidding their participation in political life would ensure eternal rule for the Brotherhood,” said Abd al-Razak Eid, 63, a veteran of Syrian opposition politics who sought asylum in France. “This is the mentality of dictators. The question on the table is can the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood learn from Egypt?”

USA Today

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48 responses to “Does ouster of Egypt’s Morsi signal end of ‘political Islam’?”

  1. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    “… can the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood learn from Egypt?”
    Maybe Mursi is undergoing some ‘education’ in something other than religion. Tunisians seem generally better-educated, but obviously still have idiots in the place. People being ‘elected’ simply because of ‘sect’ or race or religion are bound to produce failure and the uneducated masses doing the electing do not know that. Turkey struggles by having gone backward somewhat although it has been closer to the democratic principles for some time and is having a problem with secular thinking now. In the end, it is Islam which needs to sort itself out. I think it’s incapable.

    1. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Syria: Father Francois Murad Beheading Video an Assad Propaganda Hoax
      Human Rights Watch has dismissed reports that three beheaded in Syria in a graphic video that emerged on YouTube this week. The findings by HRW back claims that the footage was used for propaganda by Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

      According to an in-depth investigation by the New York-based organisation, the footage was shot in April and shows the beheading of two Shabiha people – collaborators with the Assad regime – in the village of Mashhad Ruhin 120km from Ghassaniyah.The video was originally believed to show the execution of three Franciscan monks.The killers are part of the al-Muhajireen al-Ansar brigade led by Chechen commander Abu Omar al-Shesheni. The video was arbitrarily linked byCatholic Online to the death of Francois Murad, a 49-year-old Franciscan father.

      But the Custody of the Holy Land denied that Murad was one of those in the video and confirmed that all other priests in the area were still alive.According to reports by the Vatican, fighters loyal to the radical Jubhat al-Nusra front attacked the Convent of the Custody of the Holy Land in Ghassaniyah, in northern Syria, where Murad had taken refuge, and killed him on 23 June. But the circumstances of his death were not fully understood, according to the Vatican.HRW conducted a topographic analysis of the ground in the film and facial recognition techniques on the victims and Murad. In the video, according to the Huffington Post, it is possible to hear the militants speaking in Russian on two occasions. The executioners were identified as coming from Chechnya and Dagestan as part of a group of militants based in Mashhad Ruhin.

      The two victims in the video were sentenced to death for arms trafficking and not because they were priests, said the NGO.The video was “uploaded by al-Qaida to terrorise Christians,” according to Andrea Avveduto of the Custody of the Holy Land. “The corpse of Murad was intact,”Avveduto said.The first user to upload the video on YouTube was SyriaTruth, a pro-Assad network that has been the mouthpiece for the Syrian regime in the last two Years.

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Read it in one of the news-sites.

  2. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    “… can the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood learn from Egypt?”
    Maybe Mursi is undergoing some ‘education’ in something other than religion. Tunisians seem generally better-educated, but obviously still have idiots in the place. People being ‘elected’ simply because of ‘sect’ or race or religion are bound to produce failure and the uneducated masses doing the electing do not know that. Turkey struggles by having gone backward somewhat although it has been closer to the democratic principles for some time and is having a problem with secular thinking now. In the end, it is Islam which needs to sort itself out. I think it’s incapable.

    1. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Syria: Father Francois Murad Beheading Video an Assad Propaganda Hoax
      Human Rights Watch has dismissed reports that three beheaded in Syria in a graphic video that emerged on YouTube this week. The findings by HRW back claims that the footage was used for propaganda by Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

      According to an in-depth investigation by the New York-based organisation, the footage was shot in April and shows the beheading of two Shabiha people – collaborators with the Assad regime – in the village of Mashhad Ruhin 120km from Ghassaniyah.The video was originally believed to show the execution of three Franciscan monks.The killers are part of the al-Muhajireen al-Ansar brigade led by Chechen commander Abu Omar al-Shesheni. The video was arbitrarily linked byCatholic Online to the death of Francois Murad, a 49-year-old Franciscan father.

      But the Custody of the Holy Land denied that Murad was one of those in the video and confirmed that all other priests in the area were still alive.According to reports by the Vatican, fighters loyal to the radical Jubhat al-Nusra front attacked the Convent of the Custody of the Holy Land in Ghassaniyah, in northern Syria, where Murad had taken refuge, and killed him on 23 June. But the circumstances of his death were not fully understood, according to the Vatican.HRW conducted a topographic analysis of the ground in the film and facial recognition techniques on the victims and Murad. In the video, according to the Huffington Post, it is possible to hear the militants speaking in Russian on two occasions. The executioners were identified as coming from Chechnya and Dagestan as part of a group of militants based in Mashhad Ruhin.

      The two victims in the video were sentenced to death for arms trafficking and not because they were priests, said the NGO.The video was “uploaded by al-Qaida to terrorise Christians,” according to Andrea Avveduto of the Custody of the Holy Land. “The corpse of Murad was intact,”Avveduto said.The first user to upload the video on YouTube was SyriaTruth, a pro-Assad network that has been the mouthpiece for the Syrian regime in the last two

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Read it in one of the news-sites.

  3. Constantin7 Avatar
    Constantin7

    This is not only the beginning of the end of Political Islam, this is the beginning of the end of Islam itself. Now the “brotherhood” and the salafis are going to react much more violently and cause even further rifts between the people and many secular muslims are going to go back to the Koran and Hadith to get inspired by “god’s words” and they are going to find the disaster that these books preach. They will become disillusioned…. and the they will want to explore other refligions and start reading the bible to check the alternative and eventually come to the only way, truth and life, to Jesus Christ our lord. Helleluya! I was watching Egyptian journalists and specifically Amr Diab who was crying from joy because of the “stone” that was imposed on his chest (by the brotherhood) was lifted. He unconsciously was rejecting Islam, with all the millions who were in the streets. Welcome to the Arab Spring, this spring is laying the red carpet for the only Truth represented by Jesus Christ. The end of Islam has started ! Thank you for the internet, facebook, twitter, mobile phones, satellite TV and all the technology that is showing the truth about islam to the whole world after 1400 years of “takkya” and lying. Halleluya Halleluya Halleluya !!!!!

    1. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Your wishful thinking are far from the reality. So let us have a reality check

      “Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. In 1990, 935 million people were Muslims and this figure had escalated to around 1.2 billion by 2000, meaning that around one in five people follow Islam. Although the religion began in Arabia, by 2002 80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world. In the period 1990-2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity” (Guinness World Records 2003, pg 102)

      According to Reader’s digest Almanic year book Islam grew by 235% in 50 years between 1934-1984

      According to CNN report:
      “The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years. Islam has drawn converts from all walks of life, most notably African-Americans. Former NAACP President Benjamin Chavis, who joined the Nation of Islam recently, personifies the trend. “

      The Christians of today do not go to the church anymore and due to this reason many churches are closed down. Muslims in Europe bought many of these churches or took lease and made a ideal prayer place for the Muslims. Jesus(peace be upon him) is a Muslim and he will descend among the Muslims in Syria in the Grand Mosque of Damascus,

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Yup … weird … and we know about birthrates … but good thing a pile of churches were already built, I guess. And if I were to say that the black folks were closer to Voodoo and witch-doctor beliefs than the Chinese you might need to agree as well. Islam, to me, seems an easy conversion from those.
        Humans seem to need the ‘safety’ of a religion to tell them how to be human, and to ‘excuse’ the inexplicable yet natural events in their lives. We’re basically a paranoid species being more crowded all the time, and need the crutch.

      2. Constantin7 Avatar
        Constantin7

        Let me continue my response to you:
        My “wishful thinking” is not far from the reality at all. Because of the following:
        Yes Islam may be the fastest growing religion in the world, as we see it in Lebanon too. The reason of that is fertility rate and multiple wives. 90% of the Muslims in the world are either poor or very poor and at least 50% of those are illiterate and cannot read or write in their own language (let alone in Arabic). So ignorance is the ruler of the muslim masses. You know how many muslims are becoming christians ? Educated muslims not ignorants ! Even muslims from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Algeria, Palestine, Egypt, etc… most of these keep law profile and eventually leave their original countries to go to America or the west because in Islam the Koran says who leaves his religion : KILL HIM ! I know there a sunni muslim from North of Lebanon who converted to christianity and became a priest and kept his original name: Father Ahmad ! Abouna Ahmad.
        I know how fast Islam is growing in Western Europe, America, Canada and Australia, but again through birth rate only. Any westerner who becomes muslim, it does not take much to him/her to realize the disaster and reconvert, or its mostly a woman who wants to please her muslim husband and remains a muslim. One thing for sure they do not know the real truth of Islam. The millions of Egyptians in the streets against Morsi know it much better. As for the growing number of Mosques you can thank Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the Gulf countries for their generosity in building Mosques all over the world. They have so much money that they don’t know how and where to spend it.
        Finally, it is true that Christians are not going any more to churches because this world has become very materialistic and every one is running after money and physical enjoyment. On the other hand, you do believe that at the end of the world it is Jesus, and not Mohammad, who is going to save humanity, we believe that too, but not necessarily in Damascus and at the Grand Mosque Of Damascus where Saint John the Baptist’s head is burried (Nabi Yahya). As far as Jesus is muslim, you make me laugh. When Jesus came there was no Islam or Mohammad, but I can tell you that me and all christians and Jews are muslims because: Asslamna Li Allah way before Mohammad came, but Islam and Mohammad came and wanted the Christians and the Jews to Asslimou li Mohammad not to Allah, and this will never happen in these days. It happened in the past because Islam came with the sword and told local populations: Asslimou tasslamou ! So the people just wanted to live in peace so Asslamou.
        In any case this subject is so long and complicated that we will not solve it here for sure. No matter what our believes are we are brothers in humanity, and please do notice that I criticize Islam and its prophet but never muslims, because muslims are the product of Islam and not the other way around. Unfortunately, muslims take offense when I do criticize Islam. Talking about Islam and its faults is a big Taboo subject in islam and someone could risk his life doing it. So again thank God for the internet and the information technology. One thing is for sure you will never see a christian cut the head of a muslim alive with a knive and yell “in the name of God or Jesus”, as we saw 2 weeks ago in Syria those criminals do in the name of Islam and shouting Allahu Akbar ! How can that crime be blessed by GOD !?
        Enjoy the social and spititual aspects of Ramadan. Being a meditator myself I know the benefits of fasting.
        Salam my friend !

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Speaking of fasting … I have some friends in Tripoli who have been doing it longer than a month … or three … and don’t get to gorge at night either.
          The problem, first off, is that they are not ‘male’.

        2. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          The Quran speaks repeatedly of people going back to unbelief after believing, but never once does it say that they should be killed or punished. Although the Quran does provide the death sentence for some situations such as putting a murderer to death, but it never provided death sentence or ordered the death of those who leave Islam.

          “O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.”Quran5:54

          “But those who reject faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.”

          “They ask thee (Mohammed) Concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month. Say: Fighting therein Is a grave (offence); but graver is it In the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith (Islam) and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the hereafter; they will be companions of the fire and will abide therein.” Quran2:217

          The authority To punish the apostate is with Allah in the day of Judgement.

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Amen to the last line, and add in killers, dictators, and female-haters.
            Allow me a little logic ….
            “Concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month ….” …. means it’s ok to fight for a year, except in the forbidden month, but if you find a reason to fight even then it’s ok? And if two Muslim Hordes are fighting each other (pick a country) then they must stop if neither ‘side’ is stopping the other from running to a Mosque?
            Hmmmm … maybe now is the time for ‘dialogue’ … after all, they both yell ‘Akbar’ for the rest of the year – just not at the exact same moments. Could both sides put up a ‘truce’ flag for the month? Maybe give some women and kids a break?

    2. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Jesus (peace be upon him) Will Say to the Christians “I never Knew You! DEPART FROM ME!” according to the Bible .Here is the verse

      Jesus said: “Not everyone who says to Me,’Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day,’Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them,’I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'[Matt. 7:21-23].

      Muslims nevr call Jesus “Lord”! Then who is calling Jesus “LORD”!!!? You..CHRISTIANS ..are the only people who call Jesus “LORD”. The Lord is Allah and Jesus is his messanger.

      Muslims do not call Jesus LORD, but only Christians do!
      Muslims do not cast out demons in Jesus name, but only Christians do!
      Muslims do not perform miracles in Jesus name, but Christians do!
      Muslims obey the Laws of God and practice them in their life, but Christians do not!
      The Muslims says “bismillah hirrahman nirrahim” i.e. In the name of Allah the most beneficent the most merciful

      1. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Sallam 3allaykom akhi
        Ramadan mubarak to you and your family.
        RAMADAN MUBARAK TO ALL MY MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND TO THOSE FASTING IN THE HOLY MONTH.
        GOODBYE for one month nomore siyasi onli 3ibadeh inshallah
        Sallams

        1. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          Walaikum Assalam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

      2. Constantin7 Avatar
        Constantin7

        Hi Wargame,
        First I do truly want to wish you and Reasonableman and Anti FSA and other Muslims here Ramadan Mubarak. I know that fasting, no matter the religion or the reason, is a good spiritual exercise as it takes you away from the material things of this life.
        Yes Jesus said what you are quoting above for those who will not be following his teachings. For example for a Hitler, or Napoleon or a Stalin who were all born christians this quotation will apply.
        Yes we do call Jesus Lord because in the same Bible that you read he said: “Whoever sees me sees the one who sent me”. You see for us christians: Nobody ever saw God. So God in his mercy to humans he wanted to save them from the eternal sin that they have inherited from Adam. So he was born through a virgin in the person of Jesus who is part human part God, since no man participated in his creation only God did. So Jesus is the reconciliation between Man and God, because he lived without sin and reflected God’s will on Earth, and said “nobody comes to the Father but through Me”. Also he said: “I am the truth, the way and the life, whoever believes in me will Never die”. For this we call Jesus the Son of God and he called himself the son of Man (because he was God in flesh). Finally, Can’t Allah do whatever he wants ? If yes, then can’t he appear in human form ? That is if you are shocked from the fact that God is human too.
        The fact that christians cast demons and do miracles in the name of Jesus Christ, you find this as a negative feature??? It is proof to you and the whole world that Jesus is Lord and whoever believes in him can do miracles and “lift mountains”. I don’t see this as negative at all. You pray to Mohammad and the God in the Koran from now till the last minute of your life, nobody is going to answer you. Pray to Jesus Christ once (sincerely between you and him) and ask him to prove to you that he is Lord and he will answer you one way or another.
        You say Muslims obey the Laws of God, which laws are these in the Koran and the Hadith ? How to pray, how to wash, how to eat, how to do the smallest physical material thing in this material life ? This is what you mean ? Where is the spirituality in all these material laws ? We christians have the 10 commandments (like the jews) that we have to follow) and these commandments are the cradle of the civilized world; Among them don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t give false witness and don’t desire your neighbor’s wife. Your prophet broke all of these commandments and did much worse.
        I don’t have a problem with “Bissmillah elrahman elrahim”. So what ? Islam took so much from Judaism and Christianity, who do believe that allah is Rahman and Rahim. But in Islam Allah is also Jabbar, Makkar, ect… In christianity Allah id Mahabba, which does not even exist in Islam.

        1. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          Thank you for your well wish. Please remember Jesus(Peace be upon him) fasted 40 days too. Now I will explain the Muslim stance on Jesus and Mary (Peace be upon them) from the Quran and from the hadis. Since you didnt get angry on me then I will feel more comfortable to explain in the light of Christianity with reference from the Bible. The Muslims do not pray to Muhammad(Peace be upon him) We pray to Allah i.e. The Father only. But there are some minority sect in Islam who might pray to human being and worship grave but thats not Islam. I think you may hear this …Ya Zainob Ya Hussain Ya Ali Ya Fatima etc calling dead people for help. In Islam this is call “Shirk” which is a very major sin to associate anyone with Allah. We pray direct to Allah without any via media.

          Adam and Eve (Peace be upon them) was created without a father and without a Mother. I like that Quote “nobody comes to the Father but through Me”. I agree fully. This is call the tradition of Jesus, His lifestyle prayer manner etc. We follow our prophet as they way he taught us to lead our life. But we do have a lots of shortfall though but if we wish to attain success in the hereafter then this has to be through our Prophet. In this case Jesus Moses David Abraham(Peace be upon them) brought the same message and tradition. There might be some changes in practice but the core belief was always the same. We make no distinction among the prophets. Now just for the sake of argument , if we really need to pray to someone other than Allah then Muslims will choose their prophet. But our prophet was only a servant of Allah. He came to convey the message and he also prayed to Allah. Now Ten commandments in the Bible can be helpful and in my next post I would like to talk about Ten commandments

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          You guys keep this up, you might ‘convert’ me. 😉
          I can’t wait until we get to the ‘confessing’ part …. so popular in Lebanon.

        3. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          TEN COMMANDMENTS IN ISLAM (Islam has all Ten of them but let us discuss the first 3 commandments which contradicts with the Practice between Muslims and the Christians.

          1- “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)”

          2- “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me” Exodus 20:4-5)”

          3- “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.” Exodus 20:7
          ——————————————————————————————————–
          LET us compare with the 6 testimony of faith in Islam

          1.”There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah, and Mohamed is the Messenger of Allah.”

          2. “I bear witness that (there is) no god except Allah; One is He, no partner hath He, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger.”

          3.”Exalted is Allah, and praise be to Allah, and there is no deity except Allah, and Allah is the Greatest. And there is no might nor power except in Allah, the Most High, the Most Great.”

          4.”There is) no god except Allah – One is He, no partners hath He. His is the Dominion, and His is the Praise. He gives life and causes death, and He is Living, who will not die, never. He of Majesty and Munificence. Within His Hand is (all) good. And He is, upon everything, Able (to exert His Will).”

          5.”I seek forgiveness from Allah, my Lord, from every sin I committed knowingly or unknowingly, secretly or openly, and I turn towards Him from the sin that I know and from the sin that I do not know. Certainly You, You (are) the knower of the hidden things and the Concealer (of) the mistakes and the Forgiver (of) the sins. And (there is) no power and no strength except from Allah, the Most High, the Most Great”.

          6. “(O Allah! Certainly I seek protection with You from, that I associate partner with You anything and I know it. And I seek forgiveness from You for that I do not know it. I repented from it and I made myself free from disbelief and polytheism and the falsehood and the back-biting and the innovation and the tell-tales and the bad deeds and the blame and the disobedience, all of them. And I submit and I say (there is) none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.)”

          1. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            Thanks wargame for the extensive explanation, but yet there are other commandments that your Prophet completely ignored. However, I do not want to linger on this subject.I do not believe that Mohammad is a messenger of God and his life and acts are enough proof to me that he is not and cannot be a messenger from God. I have just one last question that I cannot comprehend. You muslims repeat the following phrase all day long all over the world which I cannot understand nor accept and especially that it puts Mohammad way above Allah. This phrase says (in arabic): “Mohammad rassoul allah salla allah aalayehi wa aala ahlihi wa sahbihi wa sallam”, meaning God (the all mighty the creator of all humans, animals, plant, planets and everything we see and don’t see including Mohammad) is going to pray to or upon Mohammad, his family and his friends and greet them. Please explain to me how dare muslims say such a thing ? Are you aware of the meaning of this phrase or you are just a hypnotised umma who is just repeating words without any thought of what you are saying. This phrase put Mohammad way above God. God does not pray to anybody nor greets anybody, the humans pray for God. Prayer is a human act to communicate with their creator nothing more. Islam wants God to pray to Mohammad ????? This is much worse than shirk, this is an insult to God !!! Please explain it to me. I asked this same question many time on this blog and never got an answer.

    3. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      The early history of the apostate in Islam. Here you will have a clear picture. While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting.

      “A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam).” Quran 3:72

      To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) and Pagans, Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards with a preemptive intention. We see this same technique today among some “Former Muslim” who repeatedly come on TV show to spew propaganda against Islam. These are not apostate really rather they fall in to the category spy or traitor. Islam is already hugely established on the planet therefore at this moment no one is much interested on this traitor category. I have seen some youtube video of “former Muslims” on Christian Tv channel .I Just leave them alone. Islam is well established and these type of filth cant do any thing to discredit it anymore

      Just Imagine some one enter in to Christianity with a intention to destroy it! So he is showing you that he believes everything in Christianity from his heart but in reality he forsake Christianity and then start spewing propaganda and false statement against Christianity. These people are not called apostate but “Fifth Column”. You can see the Army personal who fight for the enemy are put to death too. These are the same category. But if someone has a true conviction in faith but for some reason he leave then what is the logic to kill him? There is no proof in the Quran and in the hadis on its validity. They were never Muslims in the first place who pretend to be reverted in order to desert Islam. Thats a sinister crime

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        “enter in to Christianity with a intention to destroy it …”
        The Russians tried that … with KGB preachers in churches they allowed to stay open because ‘the people’ of those churches were too numerous to take down all at once. Sincere efforts were made to drive them away. Didn’t work …. but the congregations didn’t run into the streets whacking at everyone who didn’t look like them.
        If it’s a ‘One God’, why call any who believe in Him an Apostate, no matter what building he runs to on a prayer day? Some of the KGB guys became apostates to Communism – better way to go.

        As for ‘early history’ and needing to wait for the right moment to produce the Koran … people needed to switch off the ‘Sun-God’ first … and everyone hates ‘the west’ now because they went back to RA with solar-panels. And in ALL the sunniest countries where it would be better for humans, they fight over oil-lamps and candles. Very weird.

    4. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Let us look at Quran Verse 2:191 “And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

      The killing of the pagans who fought the Muslims during the time when Islam was not yet complete was essential. Just look What Bashar is doing in Syria and what do you expect from the sunni rebel ? To turn their other cheek? I dont think its a viable idea.

      Important Note: Verse 2:191 above is NOT dedicated to the apostates as some Fanatic use it to prove that the Quran orders the killing of apostates. In fact, it doesn’t even mention the apostates. It talks in general about slaying the pagans who declare wars on the Muslims. The pagans would obviously include the apostates who deserted Islam, but the Verse certainly doesn’t DIRECTLY order the killing of anyone who deserts Islam. You have right to fight back if you are attacked. Take a lesson from Syrian aerial bombing chemical attack Scud missile attack etc. You dont look out who is believer or who is non believer rather you defend yourself from the aggressor whoever he is.

  4. Constantin7 Avatar
    Constantin7

    This is not only the beginning of the end of Political Islam, this is the beginning of the end of Islam itself. Now the “brotherhood” and the salafis are going to react much more violently and cause even further rifts between the people and many secular muslims are going to go back to the Koran and Hadith to get inspired by “god’s words” and they are going to find the disaster that these books preach. They will become disillusioned…. and the they will want to explore other refligions and start reading the bible to check the alternative and eventually come to the only way, truth and life, to Jesus Christ our lord. Helleluya! I was watching Egyptian journalists and specifically Amr Diab who was crying from joy because of the “stone” that was imposed on his chest (by the brotherhood) was lifted. He unconsciously was rejecting Islam, with all the millions who were in the streets. Welcome to the Arab Spring, this spring is laying the red carpet for the only Truth represented by Jesus Christ. The end of Islam has started ! Thank you for the internet, facebook, twitter, mobile phones, satellite TV and all the technology that is showing the truth about islam to the whole world after 1400 years of “takkya” and lying. Halleluya Halleluya Halleluya !!!!!

    1. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Your wishful thinking are far from the reality. So let us have a reality check

      “Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. In 1990, 935 million people were Muslims and this figure had escalated to around 1.2 billion by 2000, meaning that around one in five people follow Islam. Although the religion began in Arabia, by 2002 80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world. In the period 1990-2000, approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity” (Guinness World Records 2003, pg 102)

      According to Reader’s digest Almanic year book Islam grew by 235% in 50 years between 1934-1984

      According to CNN report:
      “The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years. Islam has drawn converts from all walks of life, most notably African-Americans. Former NAACP President Benjamin Chavis, who joined the Nation of Islam recently, personifies the trend. “

      The Christians of today do not go to the church anymore and due to this reason many churches are closed down. Muslims in Europe bought many of these churches or took lease and made a ideal prayer place for the Muslims. Jesus(peace be upon him) is a Muslim and he will descend among the Muslims in Syria in the Grand Mosque of Damascus,

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Yup … weird … and we know about birthrates … but good thing a pile of churches were already built, I guess. And if I were to say that the black folks were closer to Voodoo and witch-doctor beliefs than the Chinese you might need to agree as well. Islam, to me, seems an easy conversion from those.
        Humans seem to need the ‘safety’ of a religion to tell them how to be human, and to ‘excuse’ the inexplicable yet natural events in their lives. We’re basically a paranoid species being more crowded all the time, and need the crutch.

      2. Constantin7 Avatar
        Constantin7

        Let me continue my response to you:
        My “wishful thinking” is not far from the reality at all. Because of the following:
        Yes Islam may be the fastest growing religion in the world, as we see it in Lebanon too. The reason of that is fertility rate and multiple wives. 90% of the Muslims in the world are either poor or very poor and at least 50% of those are illiterate and cannot read or write in their own language (let alone in Arabic). So ignorance is the ruler of the muslim masses. You know how many muslims are becoming christians ? Educated muslims not ignorants ! Even muslims from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Algeria, Palestine, Egypt, etc… most of these keep law profile and eventually leave their original countries to go to America or the west because in Islam the Koran says who leaves his religion : KILL HIM ! I know there a sunni muslim from North of Lebanon who converted to christianity and became a priest and kept his original name: Father Ahmad ! Abouna Ahmad.
        I know how fast Islam is growing in Western Europe, America, Canada and Australia, but again through birth rate only. Any westerner who becomes muslim, it does not take much to him/her to realize the disaster and reconvert, or its mostly a woman who wants to please her muslim husband and remains a muslim. One thing for sure they do not know the real truth of Islam. The millions of Egyptians in the streets against Morsi know it much better. As for the growing number of Mosques you can thank Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the Gulf countries for their generosity in building Mosques all over the world. They have so much money that they don’t know how and where to spend it.
        Finally, it is true that Christians are not going any more to churches because this world has become very materialistic and every one is running after money and physical enjoyment. On the other hand, you do believe that at the end of the world it is Jesus, and not Mohammad, who is going to save humanity, we believe that too, but not necessarily in Damascus and at the Grand Mosque Of Damascus where Saint John the Baptist’s head is burried (Nabi Yahya). As far as Jesus is muslim, you make me laugh. When Jesus came there was no Islam or Mohammad, but I can tell you that me and all christians and Jews are muslims because: Asslamna Li Allah way before Mohammad came, but Islam and Mohammad came and wanted the Christians and the Jews to Asslimou li Mohammad not to Allah, and this will never happen in these days. It happened in the past because Islam came with the sword and told local populations: Asslimou tasslamou ! So the people just wanted to live in peace so Asslamou.
        In any case this subject is so long and complicated that we will not solve it here for sure. No matter what our believes are we are brothers in humanity, and please do notice that I criticize Islam and its prophet but never muslims, because muslims are the product of Islam and not the other way around. Unfortunately, muslims take offense when I do criticize Islam. Talking about Islam and its faults is a big Taboo subject in islam and someone could risk his life doing it. So again thank God for the internet and the information technology. One thing is for sure you will never see a christian cut the head of a muslim alive with a knive and yell “in the name of God or Jesus”, as we saw 2 weeks ago in Syria those criminals do in the name of Islam and shouting Allahu Akbar ! How can that crime be blessed by GOD !?
        Enjoy the social and spititual aspects of Ramadan. Being a meditator myself I know the benefits of fasting.
        Salam my friend !

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Speaking of fasting … I have some friends in Tripoli who have been doing it longer than a month … or three … and don’t get to gorge at night either.
          The problem, first off, is that they are not ‘male’.

        2. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          The Quran speaks repeatedly of people going back to unbelief after believing, but never once does it say that they should be killed or punished. Although the Quran does provide the death sentence for some situations such as putting a murderer to death, but it never provided death sentence or ordered the death of those who leave Islam.

          “O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.”Quran5:54

          “But those who reject faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.”

          “They ask thee (Mohammed) Concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month. Say: Fighting therein Is a grave (offence); but graver is it In the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith (Islam) and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the hereafter; they will be companions of the fire and will abide therein.” Quran2:217

          The authority To punish the apostate is with Allah in the day of Judgement.

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Amen to the last line, and add in killers, dictators, and female-haters.
            Allow me a little logic ….
            “Concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month ….” …. means it’s ok to fight for a year, except in the forbidden month, but if you find a reason to fight even then it’s ok? And if two Muslim Hordes are fighting each other (pick a country) then they must stop if neither ‘side’ is stopping the other from running to a Mosque?
            Hmmmm … maybe now is the time for ‘dialogue’ … after all, they both yell ‘Akbar’ for the rest of the year – just not at the exact same moments. Could both sides put up a ‘truce’ flag for the month? Maybe give some women and kids a break?

    2. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Jesus (peace be upon him) Will Say to the Christians “I never Knew You! DEPART FROM ME!” according to the Bible .Here is the verse

      Jesus said: “Not everyone who says to Me,’Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day,’Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them,’I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'[Matt. 7:21-23].

      Muslims nevr call Jesus “Lord”! Then who is calling Jesus “LORD”!!!? You..CHRISTIANS ..are the only people who call Jesus “LORD”. The Lord is Allah and Jesus is his messanger.

      Muslims do not call Jesus LORD, but only Christians do!
      Muslims do not cast out demons in Jesus name, but only Christians do!
      Muslims do not perform miracles in Jesus name, but Christians do!
      Muslims obey the Laws of God and practice them in their life, but Christians do not!

      So, in the Day of Judgment or it can be during his descension in Damascus, Jesus (PBUH) will say to you -Christians-: ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS’

      1. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Sallam 3allaykom akhi
        Ramadan mubarak to you and your family.
        RAMADAN MUBARAK TO ALL MY MUSLIM BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND TO THOSE FASTING IN THE HOLY MONTH.
        GOODBYE for one month nomore siyasi onli 3ibadeh inshallah
        Sallams

        1. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          Walaikum Assalam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

      2. Constantin7 Avatar
        Constantin7

        Hi Wargame,
        First I do truly want to wish you and Reasonableman and Anti FSA and other Muslims here Ramadan Mubarak. I know that fasting, no matter the religion or the reason, is a good spiritual exercise as it takes you away from the material things of this life.
        Yes Jesus said what you are quoting above for those who will not be following his teachings. For example for a Hitler, or Napoleon or a Stalin who were all born christians this quotation will apply.
        Yes we do call Jesus Lord because in the same Bible that you read he said: “Whoever sees me sees the one who sent me”. You see for us christians: Nobody ever saw God. So God in his mercy to humans he wanted to save them from the eternal sin that they have inherited from Adam. So he was born through a virgin in the person of Jesus who is part human part God, since no man participated in his creation only God did. So Jesus is the reconciliation between Man and God, because he lived without sin and reflected God’s will on Earth, and said “nobody comes to the Father but through Me”. Also he said: “I am the truth, the way and the life, whoever believes in me will Never die”. For this we call Jesus the Son of God and he called himself the son of Man (because he was God in flesh). Finally, Can’t Allah do whatever he wants ? If yes, then can’t he appear in human form ? That is if you are shocked from the fact that God is human too.
        The fact that christians cast demons and do miracles in the name of Jesus Christ, you find this as a negative feature??? It is proof to you and the whole world that Jesus is Lord and whoever believes in him can do miracles and “lift mountains”. I don’t see this as negative at all. You pray to Mohammad and the God in the Koran from now till the last minute of your life, nobody is going to answer you. Pray to Jesus Christ once (sincerely between you and him) and ask him to prove to you that he is Lord and he will answer you one way or another.
        You say Muslims obey the Laws of God, which laws are these in the Koran and the Hadith ? How to pray, how to wash, how to eat, how to do the smallest physical material thing in this material life ? This is what you mean ? Where is the spirituality in all these material laws ? We christians have the 10 commandments (like the jews) that we have to follow) and these commandments are the cradle of the civilized world; Among them don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t give false witness and don’t desire your neighbor’s wife. Your prophet broke all of these commandments and did much worse.
        I don’t have a problem with “Bissmillah elrahman elrahim”. So what ? Islam took so much from Judaism and Christianity, who do believe that allah is Rahman and Rahim. But in Islam Allah is also Jabbar, Makkar, ect… In christianity Allah id Mahabba, which does not even exist in Islam.

        1. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          Thank you for your well wish. Please remember Jesus(Peace be upon him) fasted 40 days too. Now I will explain the Muslim stance on Jesus and Mary (Peace be upon them) from the Quran and from the hadis. Since you didnt get angry on me then I will feel more comfortable to explain in the light of Christianity with reference from the Bible. The Muslims do not pray to Muhammad(Peace be upon him) We pray to Allah i.e. The Father only. But there are some minority sect in Islam who might pray to human being and worship grave but thats not Islam. I think you may hear this …Ya Zainob Ya Hussain Ya Ali Ya Fatima etc calling dead people for help. In Islam this is call “Shirk” which is a very major sin to associate anyone with Allah. We pray direct to Allah without any via media.

          Adam and Eve (Peace be upon them) was created without a father and without a Mother. I like that Quote “nobody comes to the Father but through Me”. I agree fully. This is call the tradition of Jesus, His lifestyle prayer manner etc. We follow our prophet as they way he taught us to lead our life. But we do have a lots of shortfall though but if we wish to attain success in the hereafter then this has to be through our Prophet. In this case Jesus Moses David Abraham(Peace be upon them) brought the same message and tradition. There might be some changes in practice but the core belief was always the same. We make no distinction among the prophets. Now just for the sake of argument , if we really need to pray to someone other than Allah then Muslims will choose their prophet. But our prophet was only a servant of Allah. He came to convey the message and he also prayed to Allah. Now Ten commandments in the Bible can be helpful and in my next post I would like to talk about Ten commandments

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          You guys keep this up, you might ‘convert’ me. 😉

        3. wargame1 Avatar
          wargame1

          TEN COMMANDMENTS IN ISLAM (Islam has all Ten of them but let us discuss the first 3 commandments which contradicts with the Practice between Muslims and the Christians.

          1- “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)”

          2- “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me” Exodus 20:4-5)”

          3- “Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.” Exodus 20:7
          ——————————————————————————————————–
          LET us compare with the 6 testimony of faith in Islam

          1.”There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah, and Mohamed is the Messenger of Allah.”

          2. “I bear witness that (there is) no god except Allah; One is He, no partner hath He, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servant and Messenger.”

          3.”Exalted is Allah, and praise be to Allah, and there is no deity except Allah, and Allah is the Greatest. And there is no might nor power except in Allah, the Most High, the Most Great.”

          4.”There is) no god except Allah – One is He, no partners hath He. His is the Dominion, and His is the Praise. He gives life and causes death, and He is Living, who will not die, never. He of Majesty and Munificence. Within His Hand is (all) good. And He is, upon everything, Able (to exert His Will).”

          5.”I seek forgiveness from Allah, my Lord, from every sin I committed knowingly or unknowingly, secretly or openly, and I turn towards Him from the sin that I know and from the sin that I do not know. Certainly You, You (are) the knower of the hidden things and the Concealer (of) the mistakes and the Forgiver (of) the sins. And (there is) no power and no strength except from Allah, the Most High, the Most Great”.

          6. “(O Allah! Certainly I seek protection with You from, that I associate partner with You anything and I know it. And I seek forgiveness from You for that I do not know it. I repented from it and I made myself free from disbelief and polytheism and the falsehood and the back-biting and the innovation and the tell-tales and the bad deeds and the blame and the disobedience, all of them. And I submit and I say (there is) none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.)”

          1. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            Thanks wargame for the extensive explanation, but yet there are other commandments that your Prophet completely ignored. However, I do not want to linger on this subject.I do not believe that Mohammad is a messenger of God and his life and acts are enough proof to me that he is not and cannot be a messenger from God. I have just one last question that I cannot comprehend. You muslims repeat the following phrase all day long all over the world which I cannot understand nor accept and especially that it puts Mohammad way above Allah. This phrase says (in arabic): “Mohammad rassoul allah salla allah aalayehi wa aala ahlihi wa sahbihi wa sallam”, meaning God (the all mighty the creator of all humans, animals, plant, planets and everything we see and don’t see including Mohammad) is going to pray to or upon Mohammad, his family and his friends and greet them. Please explain to me how dare muslims say such a thing ? Are you aware of the meaning of this phrase or you are just a hypnotised umma who is just repeating words without any thought of what you are saying. This phrase put Mohammad way above God. God does not pray to anybody nor greets anybody, the humans pray for God. Prayer is a human act to communicate with their creator nothing more. Islam wants God to pray to Mohammad ????? This is much worse than shirk, this is an insult to God !!! Please explain it to me. I asked this same question many time on this blog and never got an answer.

    3. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      The early history of the apostate in Islam. Here you will have a clear picture. While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting.

      “A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam).”

      To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) and Pagans, Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards. We see this same technique today among some “Former Muslim” who repeatedly come on TV show to spew propaganda against Islam. These are not apostate really rather they fall in to the category spy or traitor.

      Just Imagine some one enter in to Christianity with a intention to destroy it! So he is showing you that he believes everything in Christianity from his heart but in reality he forsake Christianity and then start spewing propaganda and false statement against Christianity. These people are not called apostate. You can see the Army personal who fight for the enemy are put to death too. These are the same category. But if someone has a true conviction in faith but for some reason he leave then what is the logic to kill him? There is no proof in the Quran and in the hadis on its validity. They were never Muslims in the first place.

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        “enter in to Christianity with a intention to destroy it …”
        The Russians tried that … with KGB preachers in churches they allowed to stay open because ‘the people’ of those churches were too numerous to take down all at once. Sincere efforts were made to drive them away. Didn’t work …. but the congregations didn’t run into the streets whacking at everyone who didn’t look like them.
        If it’s a ‘One God’, why call any who believe in Him an Apostate, no matter what building he runs to on a prayer day? Some of the KGB guys became apostates to Communism – better way to go.

    4. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      Let us look at Quran Verse 2:191 “And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

      The killing of the pagans who fought the Muslims during the time when Islam was not yet complete was essential. Just look What Bashar is doing in Syria and what do you expect from the sunni rebel ? To turn their other cheek? I dont think its a viable idea.

      Important Note: Verse 2:191 above is NOT dedicated to the apostates as some Fanatic use it to prove that the Quran orders the killing of apostates. In fact, it doesn’t even mention the apostates. It talks in general about slaying the pagans who declare wars on the Muslims. The pagans would obviously include the apostates who deserted Islam, but the Verse certainly doesn’t DIRECTLY order the killing of anyone who deserts Islam. You have right to fight back if you are attacked. Take a lesson from Syrian aerial bombing chemical attack Scud missile attack etc. You dont look out who is believer or who is non believer rather you defend yourself from the aggressor whoever he is.

  5. Andre Avatar

    Tolerance is the 1st tenet that all should follow and practice. Look around the world, your so called GODs made human beings and not Jewish, Christian or Muslim beings. We’re all born as human beings, and then we are PROGRAMMED by our parents, community and society to believe in a certain religious ideology. Open your mind so your eyes can see the truth.

    1. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.” Quran 2:256

      You are right and Islam recognize this freedom. But the fanatics in Islam are of more threat to the Muslims than to the non Muslims. Although they cant pull such high tech 911 attack but you see Iman Al-Zawaheri sitting in some caves telling the world that 911 London 7/7 bombing is good and their boys did it and then frame the Taliban and Saddam Hosein and million Muslims die due to invasion. But when we analyze these event we find too many holes to hold water on the official news. We dont know who appoint these people , they have good relationship with Iranian regime and their video audio message are regularly aired on every major Media. Some of them are even become guest on the BBC CNN or Fox news. These are fear mongering tool of the West. Our eyes are opening up and these satanic fanatic will be sorted out inshallah. Islam forbids killing of civilian. And we have no problem with people of other faith.

      1. So you’re saying that Islam “accepts”/”recognizes” that others, none Muslims, can practice their religion of choice? In a democracy that tolerates Religious Freedom, why would one, say a none Muslim, care what the Quran says. The same goes for the Bible, Torah, etc. Religion doesn’t belong in government, it’s a personal affair between one and their god. Any form of rule from religious by laws, is discriminating by its nature and in its implementation, for any person with a differing belief system.

  6. Andre Avatar

    Tolerance is the 1st tenet that all should follow and practice. Look around the world, your so called GODs made human beings and not Jewish, Christian or Muslim beings. We’re all born as human beings, and then we are PROGRAMMED by our parents, community and society to believe in a certain religious ideology. Open your mind so your eyes can see the truth.

    1. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.” Quran 2:256

      You are right and Islam recognize this freedom. But the fanatics in Islam are of more threat to the Muslims than to the non Muslims. Although they cant pull such high tech 911 attack but you see Iman Al-Zawaheri sitting in some caves telling the world that 911 London 7/7 bombing is good and their boys did it and then frame the Taliban and Saddam Hosein and million Muslims die due to invasion. We dont know who appoint these people , they have good relationship with Iranian regime and their video audio message are regularly aired on every major Media. Some of them are even become guest on the BBC CNN or Fox news. These are fear mongering tool of the West. Our eyes are opening up and these satanic fanatic will be sorted out inshallah. Islam forbids killing civilian. But our voice is not heard rather these monsters go to the mainstream media with Islamic headgear and spread these haterad in the name of Islam and they are never arrested and they are promoted and shoved on as as if they represent us.

      1. So you’re saying that Islam “accepts”/”recognizes” that others, none Muslims, can practice their religion of choice? In a democracy that tolerates Religious Freedom, why would one, say a none Muslim, care what the Quran says. The same goes for the Bible, Torah, etc. Religion doesn’t belong in government, it’s a personal affair between one and their god. Any form of rule from religious by laws, is discriminating by its nature and in its implementation, for any person with a differing belief system.

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