Lebanon and the start of Iran-Saudi Arabia proxy war

Share:

The town of  Shouifat and Beirut during sectarian clashes involving Hezbollah in May, 2008.
The town of Shouifat and Beirut during sectarian clashes involving Hezbollah in May, 2008.

BY MOHAMAD BAZZI
In the early morning of May 9, 2008, the Lebanese Shiite militia Hezbollah dispatched hundreds of heavily armed fighters to Beirut, and within twelve hours it had altered Lebanon’s political balance. Hezbollah and its allies quickly routed Sunni militiamen, took control of their political offices, and shut down media outlets owned by a prominent Sunni leader. The Lebanese government was paralyzed, while the Lebanese Army stood on the sidelines.

With the wave of revolution and violence that has engulfed the Middle East in the seven years since that day, Hezbollah’s actions are now largely a footnote. But, in retrospect, the events of May, 2008, were one of the opening salvos in the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. While the two powers were already fighting through proxies in Iraq, Hezbollah’s brief takeover of Beirut—and the events that led to it—took the conflict to a new battlefield and helped to define what would unfold in the region over the coming years: sectarian bloodletting and an expanding proxy war that now extends through Syria, Iraq, Yemen, the rest of Lebanon, and Bahrain.

After the Bush Administration invaded Iraq and ousted the Baathist regime, in 2003, both Iran and Saudi Arabia realized that there would be a power vacuum in Iraq, and they began jockeying to fill it. Neighboring Sunni regimes backed Sunni fighters and tribes, while Iran supported Shiite militias and the central Baghdad government. The House of Saud, which had long viewed Iraq as a bulwark against Iranian influence, tried to destabilize the Shiite-led government. Beyond Iraq, the Sunni Arab states were nervous about Iran’s growing regional power: its nuclear program, its support for Hezbollah and Hamas, and its alliance with Syria’s Bashar al-Assad.

In Lebanon, an alliance between Washington and authoritarian Sunni Arab regimes—Saudi Arabia, other Gulf countries, and Egypt—supported a Sunni-led government against Hezbollah, a political party and militia that is funded by Iran but also has deep roots in Lebanon’s Shiite community. The crisis in Lebanon began in February, 2005, with the assassination of the former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, a billionaire construction tycoon who was the country’s most prominent Sunni leader and a longtime Saudi ally. His murder cleaved Lebanon into pro-Saudi and pro-Iranian factions. At the time, Hezbollah offered an alternative to Arab rulers placating the United States.

Hezbollah’s strong performance against a far superior Israeli military during their war in the summer of 2006 electrified the Arab world. That November, after talks between Hezbollah and the U.S.- and Saudi-backed Prime Minister, Fouad Siniora, failed, six ministers representing the Party and its allies resigned from the cabinet. Hezbollah and its Christian supporters then launched a nonviolent protest in downtown Beirut, erecting hundreds of tents outside the main government palace and holding large demonstrations demanding Siniora’s resignation. Lebanese Sunnis and several Christian factions united around Siniora, while the United States and Sunni Arab regimes rushed to support him.

In April, 2008, Western-backed Lebanese politicians discovered that Hezbollah had a secret fiber-optic communications network, and they quickly passed along details, including a map tracing the route, to the United States, France, Saudi Arabia, and other allies. “Iran Telecom is taking over the country!” Marwan Hamadeh, the Lebanese telecommunications minister at the time, told officials at the U.S. Embassy, according to a diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks. Hamadeh told the diplomats that when the Sunni leader Saad Hariri—the son of Prime Minister Hariri and the main Saudi ally in Lebanon—first heard about Hezbollah’s network, he “sent a private plane from Saudi Arabia to pick up a copy of the map” so that he could share it with the Saudi king and intelligence chief.

The fiber-optic network, Hamadeh told U.S. diplomats, was built “under the radar,” with help from municipal officials, and was financed by the Iranian Fund for the Reconstruction of Lebanon, which had been rebuilding roads and bridges destroyed by Israel during the 2006 war. Hamadeh’s comments underscored that Saudi allies in Lebanon saw Hezbollah’s network as part of a larger, almost existential, threat from Iran. “Hamadeh highlights the system as a strategic victory for Iran, since it creates an important Iranian outpost in Lebanon, bypassing Syria,” the cable said. “He sees the value for the Iranians as strategic, rather than technical or economic. The value for Hezbollah is the final step in creating a nation state. Hezbollah now has an army and weapons; a television station; an education system; hospitals; social services; a financial system; and a telecommunications system.”

On May 6, 2008, Siniora and his cabinet issued one order outlawing the fiber-optic network and another dismissing the security chief at the Beirut airport, who was an ally of the Party. Hezbollah accused the United States and Israel of instigating the two decisions, and demanded that they be rescinded. On May 7th, fighting broke out between Hezbollah’s allies and supporters of Hariri. By May 9th, Hezbollah had deployed hundreds of fighters to the largely Sunni areas of West Beirut, routing Hariri’s partisans within hours and shutting down his newspaper and television stations. On May 15th, Siniora’s government rescinded its orders, Hezbollah pulled its fighters off the streets, and leaders of the two factions headed to Qatar to negotiate under the Arab League’s auspices.

At the time, I was in Beirut, staying in a neighborhood that housed an office belonging to Hariri’s political party, the Future Movement. There were often armed men milling outside the building. On the morning of May 9th, after a night of sporadic gunfire and rocket-propelled grenades, I saw a group of Hezbollah fighters moving toward the office. Three commandos in gray-green fatigues crouched, assault rifles propped on their knees, in a small garden where kids usually played soccer. Two more advanced methodically down the block, moving in military formation, shouting, “Don’t go outside! Stay inside! Don’t go out on your balconies!” A teen-age boy ran toward them, surrendering, with his hands raised above his head. He was barefoot and shirtless, to show he was unarmed.

Hezbollah’s quick success alarmed Saudi Arabia, which had poured tens of millions of dollars into funding Hariri’s political party and arming his allies in the Lebanese security forces. The day after Hezbollah’s takeover, the banner headline on the Saudi-owned pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat proclaimed, “Beirut Under the Second Occupation,” a reference to the Israeli siege and occupation of Beirut, in 1982.

The Saudi regime was so worried about Hezbollah and the perceived Iranian victory in Lebanon that Saudi leaders proposed creating an Arab military force, backed by Washington and NATO, to intervene in Beirut, according to another classified U.S. diplomatic cable disclosed by WikiLeaks. Prince Saud al-Faisal, then the Saudi Foreign Minister, floated the idea on March 10th to the U.S. special adviser on Iraq, David Satterfield, who was visiting Riyadh. Saud “stated that the effort by ‘Hezbollah and Iran’ to take over Beirut was the first step in a process that would lead to the overthrow of the Siniora government and an ‘Iranian takeover of all Lebanon,’ ” the cable said. “Such a victory, combined with Iranian actions in Iraq and on the Palestinian front, would be a disaster for the US and the entire region.”

Saud said that the Arab force would be drawn from Arab “periphery” states—meaning not Saudi or other Gulf troops—and would be deployed to Beirut under the “cover” of the United Nations. “The US and NATO would be asked to provide equipment for such a force,” the cable said, “as well as logistics, movement support, and ‘naval and air cover.’ ” Saud also argued that the conflict in Lebanon would be an “easier battle to win” than trying to scale back Iranian influence in Iraq and the Palestinian territories.

Satterfield and other U.S. officials were skeptical of the Saudi proposal, and the idea soon died. But it marked a moment when both Iran and Saudi Arabia began to see their rivalry as a winner-take-all conflict. If Hezbollah gains an upper hand in Lebanon, then the Sunnis of Lebanon—and, by extension, their Saudi patrons—lose a round to Iran. If a Shiite-led government solidifies its control of Iraq, then Iran will have won another round. So the House of Saud rushes to shore up its allies in Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain, and Yemen.

Now Saudi Arabia has a new monarch, King Salman, who rose to power after his brother’s death, in January, and inherited the Saudi policy of containing Iran and of countering revolutionary sentiment throughout the region. Salman is more eager to intervene directly in the proxy battles with Iran, as he has done with the Saudi-led war against Houthi rebels in Yemen.

Prompted by Saudi Arabia, Arab states agreed at a summit in March to create a joint military force, mainly to counter Iran. It’s the same kind of Arab security force that Prince Saud proposed to U.S. officials in May, 2008, to scale back Hezbollah’s gains in Lebanon. But, reflecting the Saudis’ new aggressiveness, this force would not be reliant on U.S. and NATO air and naval power, nor would it seek political cover from the United Nations before intervening in Arab states threatened by insurgencies or Iranian influence, real or perceived. That is the new status quo in the region: both Iran and Saudi Arabia have hardened their positions into an open-ended conflict, and the people of Iraq, Syria, and Yemen are paying the price.

NEW YORKER

Share:

Comments

421 responses to “Lebanon and the start of Iran-Saudi Arabia proxy war”

  1. MekensehParty Avatar
    MekensehParty

    dogs biting dogs

    1. Hannibal Avatar
      Hannibal

      In proxy wars it is the dogs barking (Iran and Saudi) and cats scratching cats… Sadly.

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Outlines of the history. Can’t talk about how Lebanese suffer, or what the Lebanese wanted, and still want. A country that Actually functions … and a working viable network for people & business. Terror gets the ‘Fiber Optics’.

      2. Hend Abyad Avatar
        Hend Abyad

        Excerpt of ‘The Odeh Yinon Plan for the Midlle East” 1982

        published by The World Zionist Organization.

        “The dissolution of Syria and Iraq later on into ethnically or
        religiously unqiue areas such as in Lebanon, is Israel’s primary target
        on the Eastern front in the long run, while the dissolution of the
        military power of those states serves as the primary short term target.
        Syria will fall apart, in accordance with its ethnic and religious
        structure, into several states such as in present day Lebanon, so that
        there will be a Shi’ite Alawi state along its coast, a Sunni state in
        the Aleppo area, another Sunni state in Damascus hostile to its northern
        neighbor, and the Druzes who will set up a state, maybe even in our Golan, and certainly in the Hauran and in northern Jordan. This state of affairs will be the guarantee for peace and security in the area in the long run, and that aim is already within our reach today. 14″ example of
        this system functioning either in South Lebanon or in all Lebanon.” As we can see today

        1. Nothing but a pipe dream back in time:)
          at what here Christians, fool?

          1. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            It is bewildering to me how a dog (YOU) keeps barking at the caravan (Hend). She did not address you. Stay out of her way. I thought you had something better to do… Like abusing Palestinian helpless kids?

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I think he got sucked in by MalMucky and O-Oh.

          3. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Might try staying away from the scotch for a little while…

          4. malmequer Avatar
            malmequer

            I’ll drink to that..

          5. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Talking to yourself?

          6. Anti ISIS Avatar
            Anti ISIS

            Lol

          7. Are You also “caravan”, idiot?

          8. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            idiot definition is unique… Well thank you keyboard warrior. Are you ready for another repeat of 2006 zionass whipping? I hear Russia is about to sell S-300 missiles to Iran… It’s a matter of time for those to fall in our hands. Remember the ship across the mediterranean that we sank? Now ready your planes for they will drop like flies.

          9. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            How stupid are ‘people’ ??
            This island only existed for 40 years …. and that stirred up trouble between India and Bangladesh.
            http://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/the-island-that-disappeared-because-of-climate-change/ar-BBkcBup?ocid=mailsignoutmd

          10. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! lol 😉

          11. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yah Hannibal … weird … and to think they both could have had 40 years on a nudist island. 😉

          12. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            World’s First Known Murder …. (I need to revise my 50,000 years in the ‘group land-grab’ story by 10x at least … ;-))
            http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/05/28/scientists-have-few-clues-to-solve-500000-year-old-murder.html

          13. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Abel? Did Cain do that to you? 😉 lol

          14. Anti ISIS Avatar
            Anti ISIS

            Shhhh Hannibal, don’t scare the living shit out of them. It’s bad enough their soldiers who fought in 2006 are still having treatment for the serving that was handed to them HA. Do you really want the civilians to have nightmares as well. Lol. Show some compassion for God sake.

          15. doron Avatar

            there was never a state called palistine Hannibal, not in the past not in the present and therefor no future.
            fake name for a fake peope

          16. arzatna1 Avatar
            arzatna1

            Perhaps not Palistine but Palestine has always been around and according to the most recent UN vote the state of Palestine is the 194th state.
            I realize you are an Israeli citizen and all along Israel has been behind this effort to wipe out Palestine from all maps old and new.
            We in Lebanon refer to Israel as occupied Palestine , which should be the real name of your country , whether you like it or not .

          17. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Your country and all other surrounding Arab states (Jordan, Syria, Egypt) signed the 1949 armistice agreement with Israel, renouncing claims over lands captured by Israel in the 1948 war and drawing a border with them… “whether you like it or not”.

          18. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Spoken like a real Persian…

          19. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            It’s true. Your own leaders alongside other Arab leaders met with Moshe Dayyan in Rhodes and drew Israel’s 1949 borders. Mandatory Palestine no longer exists. “Occupied balestine” is just in your head.

          20. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Palestine, 1967 blue line..(gone)

          21. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            We changed our mind… 😉

          22. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Too late 😀

          23. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Is that your picture?..Holy land Landscape is the scapegoat..

          24. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            It’s ok, Hind … the nice skies are on the other side. :-)))

          25. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            cook was sarcastic.. i thought it was a nice scenery:)

          26. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            And, a wall with no blood-spots. Wow. 😉

          27. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            a gray wall..better listen to music..

          28. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Yup! Took it yesterday.

          29. doron Avatar

            Hmmm..so..israel is not entitled to exist even though the un accepeted it yet a palisyate does exist? 🙂

          30. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            I am 100% with Israel to exist… Here in America as a state. We will add the star of david to the other stars. I hear that South Carolina’s weather is pretty similar to Palestine’s… They have a beautiful sea shore cleaner than the Mediterranean and plenty of room to resurrect Solomon’s temple without demolishing the Aqsa and bringing the wrath of the moslems against you. Any takers?

          31. doron Avatar

            No.

          32. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Darn it… I tried. 😛

          33. doron Avatar

            and it was a nice attempt too 🙂

          34. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            did you take his invitation seriously?
            There is no place for a Jewish or any other religious state in the USA
            Keep your religions in the ME, y’all are looking great there

          35. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            It was so thoughtful of him LOL.

          36. doron Avatar

            he did offer, i had to replay 🙂
            I have no wish to live in the US. lived there for a while, not my cup of tea.

          37. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            The lack of Jewish settlements on stolen lands and religiously closing on Shabbat can be a deal breaker I agree. Plus, there are no Palestinians to fight with constantly and I know you prefer the sounds of rockets falling and sirens whaling rather than the sounds of normal happy life. Please stay wherever you are. Hannibal is a guest and like all rude Lebanese he invites people to other people’s party…

          38. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            I am not a guest… I was born in the U.S. to Lebanese Parents with green cards. That makes you the guest and I the tenant.
            Now pay me rent and shut up. lol
            Besides this country is a FREE country… If the jews want to close on Saturday so be it. I know many people who do and work Sunday which works very well for all of us Americans keeping things running all week long.

          39. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            So now you’re an American? istaghfarallah!!! Edit edit!
            The Jews can close on Saturday but they can’t force people to close on Saturday, and they can’t fight Palestinians, most importantly they can’t have a Jewish state within the United States, so unless you want Doron in the refugee house the government gave you when you washed up on the shores of Camden New Jersey in the early 80s running away from the Syrians in Batroun, please don’t invite anyone here.

          40. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            lolololol ….. love you guys …..

          41. doron Avatar

            Tbh, i lived in the CA for a while and even though it is a lovely place (Hannibal didn’t lie :p ) but i have to admit U R correct :as good as the us might be, my home is here with all the good and bad that comes with it.
            You have no objections if i come as atourist right? I feel like visiting new york sometime soon 🙂

          42. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            New York? That’s about the Last ‘pick’ of teeming humanity I’d want to visit in North America … Maybe once Texas gets finished with flooding out the Fire-Ants for the year, you could try Dallas. Nice cowgirls …. 😉

          43. doron Avatar

            i like walking, in texas the only walk is to the car :))
            what can I say 5th , manhatan is my soft spot when it comes to the US :)love the energy of the masses

          44. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Come any time, you now have a place to stay in Camden NJ, and feel free to bring in more guests (Lebanese don’t mind at all).

          45. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            That’s Hani’s house after cleaning and renovation
            No wonder he’s in a rush to return to Batroun

          46. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Nice Tyre-Collection, however. ;-))))

          47. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Well you know, since the Hanibalians lost their elephants they resorted to burning tires.
            yek yek yek

          48. “settlements”, “stolen lands”, “palestinians” is bad wrong language

          49. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Then why is it part of your daily vocabulary?

          50. Where You see it?

          51. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Nata’ zakaria
            That’s your plan? Write a paper about it and send it to me, need toilet paper.
            Yek Yek Yek

          52. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            2eem el deb ta yor2oss akal sab3 tmeen…?

          53. doron Avatar

            never was a state called palistine and never were palistinian people.
            more then that, it’s a micro of the ME – remove the “bully” that maintains the order and everybody start killing eachother. now , in every other case (i.e Iraq,Syria Lebanon etc) i couldn’t care less but in this case it has a direct impact on my state’s safty i kind of like to take measures ..wouldn’t want it to turn into your qualamoun 😉
            as for your last sentance: hahahaha

          54. arzatna1 Avatar
            arzatna1

            You are obviously an illiterate and biased
            I sympathize with you because obviously being illiterate you don’t know any better.
            I cannot tell you to go back to school and study history , because you may not understand what you are reading .
            All I suggest is to have an open mind or see a psychiatrist, since you believe strongly that there was never a sate of Palestine and you don’t even know how to spell the word . Perhaps you googled palistine which of course is the wrong spelling for the country

          55. doron Avatar

            yawn….got proofs?! i’d be happy to discuss it with you and prove you wrong.
            don’t have proofs? ..don’t waste my time.

          56. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Liar, there was never a state of “palestine”.

          57. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            Thats not all, they claim that Jesus was a Palestinian!
            https://youtu.be/u3qd2tsiV2Y

          58. One can cal Lebanon Canaanian but this does not cancel the Orab or Iranian occupation of former Switzerland of ME. Jesus was Jew from Judea if he was real. Wish Lebanon will be Switzerland of ME and not caliphate, “falestine” is caliphate

          59. doron Avatar

            They can claim the moon is red for all i care

          60. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            You know the problem, Arzatna … ONE DAY, after a bit of work, God looked down onto a Planet.
            *Poof* – He Made Man …
            He thought about it for a minute … then stole a rib from Man and made Woman.
            A Precedent was set.
            Man didn’t complain too much, but did say: ‘She’s MINE’.
            After a while, due to that day of perfection, there were many Men and Women. Some walked.
            They formed groups – but one guy was always able to beat up other guys and then say things like:
            ‘She’s Mine’ …. ‘that’s mine’ … ‘your ass is mine’ …
            Eventually they met other groups – who had once all been family but didn’t recognize the fact.
            They Bragged: ‘Our group has this’ …. which promoted the other group to say the same thing.
            The Men also noted that the women of the ‘Other’ group had boobs too.
            Even if they had different sun-tans, there was desire to say: ‘That should be mine – with the bed too’.
            Group-Think has taken over.
            20,000 years later, One Group has all the Psychiatrists. :-))))

          61. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Read on: IF AFTER READING THAT YOU STILL BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAID THEN YOU SHOULD CHANGE YOUR NAME TO M(oron) 😉

            The names “Palestine” and “Palestina” occur four times in the Old Testament portion of the King James Bible (1611), the most influential English translation in history.

            What have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Sidon,
            and all the coasts of Palestine? (Joel 3:4a = 4:4a Heb)

            The people shall hear, and be afraid;
            sorrow shall take hold of the inhabitants of Palestina. (Exod 15:14)

            Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina … (Isa 14:29a)

            Howl, O gate; cry, O city,
            thou whole Palestina, art dissolved. (Isa 14:31a)

            The oldest known reference to “Palestine” is in the work of Greek historian Herodotus (ca. 484–425). He says Palaistine is “part of Syria” along the Mediterranean coast.

            Herodotus [c. 484–c. 425]
            Histories 1.105.1 — “From there they marched against Egypt: and when they were in the part of Syria called Palestine, Psalmmetichus king of Egypt met them and persuaded them with gifts and prayers to come no further.” [Eng. trans. A.D. Godley]

            Some 500 years later, Jewish historian Josephus (37-100) quotes Herodotus in referring to “Syria of Palaistine” and “the Syrians that are in Palaistine are circumcised.” But Josephus quickly “corrects” Herodotus by noting that the only “inhabitants of Palaistine [who] are circumcised [are] Jews.”

            Histories 2.104.3 — “The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine acknowledge that they learned the custom from the Egyptians, and the Syrians of the valleys of Thermodon and the Parthenius, as well as their neighbors the Macrones, say that they learned it from the Colchians. These are the only nations that circumcise, and it is seen that they do just as the Egyptians.” [Eng. trans. A.D. Godley]

            Histories 3.5.1 — “Now the only apparent way of entry into Egypt is this. The road runs from Phoenicia as far as the borders of the city of Cadytis, which belongs to the so-called Syrians of Palestine.” [Eng. trans. A.D. Godley]

            Histories 7.89.1-2 — “The number of the triremes was twelve hundred and seve, and they were furnished by the following: the Phoenicians with the Syrians of Palestine furnished three hundred . . . These Phoenicians formerly dwelt, as they themselves say, by the Red Sea; they crossed from there and now inhabit the seacoast of Syria. This part of Syria as far as Egypt is all called Palestine.” [Eng. trans. A.D. Godley]

            The 4th century church historian Eusebius (writing in Greek) twice mentions “Palaistine” in his Ecclesiastical History (2.2.6; 7.15.1). He notes that the coastal city Caesarea is in that region.

            In the Hebrew Bible there is one word behind the various English renderings Palestine, Palestina, and Philistia. It is Peleshet.

            Note the consonant link between Hebrew and Greek.

            Peleshet [Hebrew]: P-L-SH-T
            Palaistine [Greek]: P-L-S-T [there is no “sh” sound in Greek]

            The geographical term Peleshet is used eight times in the HB (Exod 15:14; Isa 14:29, 31; Joel 4:4[=3:4 Eng], Pss 60:10[=v.8 Eng], 83:8[7], 87:4, 108:10[9] ).

            The inhabitants of Peleshet are Pelishtim, a plural noun that occurs 287x in the HB (Gen 10:14; 26:1; Exod 13:17, etc.), mostly in Judges, 1 & 2 Samuel, and 1 Chronicles. Lexicons say the root palashis a verb meaning to roll (in dust or ashes) as an act of mourning (Jer 6:26; Ezek 27:30; Mic 1:10). How that relates to the people (rollers, mourners) is not clear.

            The Pelishtim
            From the time the Israelites first entered Canaan, under Joshua’s leadership, the “Philistines” were perennial enemies. Their center of power was the Pentapolis, a cluster of five cities along the coast of southern Canaan: Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza. Their influence, however, stretched farther north up the coast.

            The warrior giant Goliath (from the city of Gath) taunted the timid Jewish battle lines with inflated ethnic bluster: “I am the Philistine” [anokhi haPelishti]” (1 Sam 17:8). Interestingly, the Greek Septuagint renders his boast as: “I Am Foreigner” [ego eimi allophylos].

            Goliath’s boast elicits teenager David’s famous response: “You come against me with sword and spear and javelin; but I come against you in the name of Yahveh Tzeva’ot, the God of the ranks of Israel, whom you have defied” (1 Sam 17:45).

            The three main gods in the Pelishtim pantheon were Dagon (Judg 16:23; 1 Sam 5:1-7), Ashtoreth (Judg 10:6; 1 Sam 31:10), and Baal-Zebub (2 Kgs 1:1-6, 16).

            Some 200 years after David, Isaiah condemns his fellow Judeans for forsaking God’s “light” and for being “full [of practices] from the East … [abounding] in customs of the aliens.” These include “soothsaying like the Philistines [Pelishtim]” (Isa 2:5-6).

            Septuagint Translation
            The Septuagint (LXX) one time renders “Peleshet” as a reference to the people: Phylistiim (Philistines, Exod 15:14).

            Clearly, the Jewish scholars in Egypt who did the LXX considered the Pelishtim as aliens and strangers. Some might view this is an historical irony, since the Israelites arrived in Canaan after the Pelishtim. But the Biblical perspective is that the Land was an eternal gift from God to the Israelites, alone.

            Whence the Pelishtim
            Evidence from Egyptian inscriptions identifies them as “Sea Peoples.” Pottery from Ekron and Ashdod mirrors styles in Cyprus, and the temple at Tell Qasile (near Tel Aviv) is similar to ones in the Aegean Sea area and on Cyprus. No inscriptions in a Philistine language have been found, suggesting they adopted the languages where they invaded.

            Amos refers to “the Pelishtim from Caphtor” (Amos 9:7). Jeremiah forewarns that “the day is coming” when “YHVH will ravage the Pelishtim [who are] the remnant from the island of Caphtor” (Jer 47:4). Archeologists believe Caphtor is likely the island of Crete. Zephaniah says:

            Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast,
            The nation of the Cherethites! [Heb: KeReiTim; cf. CReTe]
            The word of YHVH is against you,
            O Canaan, land of the Philistines. (Zeph 9:7)

            Ezekiel makes the Cherethite—Philistine connection fairly explicit: “Thus said Lord YHVH: I will stretch out my hand against the Philistines and cut off the Cherethites and wipe out the last survivors of the seacoast” (Ezek 25:15-16).

            Herodotus heard that the “Phoenicians” (Philistines) had “formerly dwelt…by the Red Sea,” but moved up to “inhabit the seacoast of Syria” (modern coast of Israel into Lebanon) (7.89.2).

            Conclusion
            In the Hebrew Bible, the coastal land Peleshet (Philistia) is occupied by the Pelishtim (Philistines) who originated from the Aegean Sea area, including Cyprus and Caphtor-Ceret-Crete.

            “Palestine” in Christian Bibles

            Neither “Palestina” or “Philistia” occur in the Greek New Testament.

            Nearly all Bible translations today use “Philistia” in their Old Testament portions for the original Peleshet. This designates the geographical area along the coast of Israel and southern Lebanon (including Tyre and Sidon). A few Christian versions have “Palestine” in their biblical text or in marginal notes. They may do this to orient readers to modern political boundaries. But some may have biased theological motives.

            The Roman Catholic Douay-Rheims (revised 1899) has “the people of Palestine” at Jeremiah 47:1 and “the daughters of Palestine” at Ezekiel 16:57. In both verses the Hebrew reads “Pelishtim” (Philistines).

            The conservative Protestant Amplified Bible (1965) includes “Palestine” in their text in brackets:

            Ezek 38:11, 12 — “I will fall upon those…who dwell at the center of the earth [Palestine].”

            Dan 11:30a — “…he shall be grieved and discouraged and turn back [to Palestine] and carry out his rage and indignation against the holy covenant and God’s people.”

            Dan 11:41a — “He shall enter into the glorious land [Palestine], and many shall be overthrown.”

            Daniel 8:9 — “[Another horn] started small, but then grew to an enormous size, facing south and east—toward lovely Palestine [my emphasis].”

            Daniel 11:16 — “[The king of the north will] take over that beautiful country, Palestine, and make himself at home in it.”

            Any Questions?

          62. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            You idiot, the Arabs of today have simply annexed that name. It doesn’t “prove” that they have anything to do with what the Romans called that land or some ancient tribes that once lived there. They are Palestinians simply by name.

            I do a philosophy degree and I will tell you that your reasoning is extremely stupid. Its like you calling yourself a Martian, and justifying it by claiming: “oh but Mars definitely exists and all these books have cited it. See? I’m a Martian”.

            Its called playing with language, and its a dishonest and stupid form of reasoning.

          63. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            ok ..but don’t call Hannibal stupid, be niiice:)

          64. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            I don’t like historical lies

          65. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            The old testament does not lie… It is written by Jews 😉

          66. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            lololol …..

          67. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Ohhhh I see, so the Old Testament mentions an Arab country called State of Palestine, they had the same flag as today and their capital was Ramallah lol. You idiot, you know what a Straw Man fallacy is, right? no one denied the name existed, what we’re saying is that the name has no relevance to a modern Arab nationality invented in the 60s, invented by a group of Arabs most of whom have no more than 150 years of family roots there.

          68. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Historians date the first olive trees in Palestine to 4,000 years before Christ.

            A Palestinian farmer may look outside his window on the hillside to view olive trees that were planted 1,000 years ago that still produce olives. Another farmer may point to trees that were planted by his/her father 100 years ago.”

            Settlers burned and uprooted Olive trees in the same family for 1,000 years..since the crusaders.

            Since 1967, approximately 800,000 olive trees have been uprooted in the occupied West Bank, …

          69. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            And the Arabs burnt 58 ancient synagogues, tomato tomahto

          70. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            When? Arabs are not all Moslems in Palestine.

          71. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            In the 1948 war. Israel on the other hand never attacked muslim holy sites. You can’t compare that to burning olive trees.

          72. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Burning thousand years old trees is comparable, ruining Holly Land landscape is horrible, looks more as a Holly Hole.

          73. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Only one ‘l’, PLEASE ……

          74. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Thank you..sigh…

          75. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            banadoura ..:)

          76. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            The classic Arabic word for Tomato is Tamatim..it’s also the word used at all the west Arabic countries, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Mauritania and Lybia.
            Banadoura is the word of our dialect in Levant..

          77. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Don’t sound quite right to say YOU are a cute Tamatim …. hmmmm ….
            Habibti bandoura …. maybe better ….

          78. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Ahhh, didn’t know that. Our Levant accent is proper Arabic in my opinion.

          79. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Yes, it’s our classic Arabic..humm.. i must consult Hannibal.

          80. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            You mean that “Historians date the first olive trees in the land of Canaan to 4,000 years before Christ.”.

          81. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            How can historians date trees?

            It’s based on the genetic analysis of nearly 1,900 samples from around the Mediterranean Sea.
            http://www.livescience.com/26887-olive-tree-origins.htmlIts

          82. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            You saw it off at the base, then count the growth-rings. 😉 Tedious task.

          83. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            You made a research? 🙂

          84. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            It’s your text “Historians date the first olive trees in Palestine to 4,000 years before Christ.”!

            You are so busy with the hatred that you do not notice that I run with you.

            The Arabs who keeps alive the term “Palestinian refugees” are big in the mouth, all they manage to produce is hot air, and this since the battle of Kaybar.

            You ONLY manage to gather large anti-Israeli protests with slogans of “Down with” America “down with” Israel “!
            When its comes to “liberation” you are zeros,

          85. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Oufff….! Historians date it after History.. Science is recent…

          86. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Well, THAT’s the answer, Hind. They burn them because THEY didn’t ‘invent’ them. :-))))

          87. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            You were born in Iran… That’s even worse 😉

          88. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            No, I was born in Haifa.

          89. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Then you’re a Palestinian 😉

          90. Don’t tell him that Hannibal!!! he might pickup a barrel bomb and throw it up in the air and try to land it on his head lol, I would miss that twisted total freak ;)D

          91. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            lol

          92. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Cookie … the ‘everywhere man’ … a line and place for every occasion. ;-))
            A bouncing ball on a spinning wheel. (proof of a planetary rotation)

          93. Everywhere but Florida, Mano has a bounty on him….Just kidding =D

          94. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            I will be in Spain in September, then London again, then Mexico, and next summer Australia. Sorry Geo but Florida is too humid ;))

          95. You are killing me!! how do you do it fraudulent student loans? rich jewy macjew parents ? lol, happy for you enjoy it while you can growing up is a total trap unless you end up like me and refuse to act your age :)P

          96. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Hmm I guess I just know how to handle money and save a lot.
            I admire people like you and Madonna, good to stay young :-))

          97. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Omg lol. I have a flight to Tel Aviv today, hope my luggage isn’t too heavy ugh.

          98. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Must have arrived by now..

          99. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Not yet :-)) Still in London

          100. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Ok NOW I’m in Haifa :-)))

          101. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            but you were going to Tel Aviv..from London, busy flying machine is back in Haifa..you must prefer Haifa :))

          102. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            The airport is in Tel Aviv, and from there I go to Haifa. I actually went to Rosh Hanikra today (by the Lebanese border), sent a pic to Hannibal. Also Visited Akka. Long day.

          103. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Hannibal will be happy..

          104. How come I didn’t get a picture ? you don’t like me because I am black :(:(:(

          105. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            lol thankfully no one on this forum is black, just takfiris but not black =D (kidding, I’ve got a group of black bffs at uni).

          106. Plenty with black outfits and black flags lol, I have a colored tv…does that count?:)P I adopted 2 african parrots…does that count? ? =D Have a great trip and be polite and apologize for trespassing on palestinian land lol

          107. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            LOL. I will go to Jerusalem in a couple days, full of hijabis there. Have you never considered visiting Occupied Palestine? 😀

          108. will you guaranty my safety? I am attaching a picture so you know what I look like…. Give me an hour to pack lol,

          109. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            lolz.

            Many of these hijabis are so ugly, yet they cover themselves as if men might hit on them LOL. When I see some fat paki hijabi on the underground train I’m like you fugly little cow… 🙂

          110. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            SOB 4 wives? Damn I need to change my religion. 😛

          111. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            No you don’t …. trust me … there are less expensive ways … ;-))

          112. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            (another acronym … what is that? ‘Big Fat Funny Simpletons’? You dissing blacks boy?)
            (damn kids …)

          113. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Don’t have anything against blacks, I’m racist towards everyone equally :))

            It means best friend forever :PP

          114. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Akka? That’s nice.. did you take pictures, i have 19th century lithography from Acre. (there’s no Akka you mean Akko in Hebrew.)

          115. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Hannibal didn’t know because you said “I’m not Jewish I’m Iranian”..remember?:)

          116. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            nobody likes that cookie.

          117. You are like. “Falestinians” is a mainstream lie, nobody says f.e. Lebanese are Canaanitians (It may be similar to the truth), don’t support caliphate, Orabic or Persian, if you “christian”

          118. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            … and here is where you, the zionists, your cousins the Arabs and I differ… We never came from ANYWHERE to “annex” ANYTHING… We simply were there. We NEVER left … Jews, Christians and Moslems always existed… Armies came and left and we remained… Arameans.
            If my son’s sons who never saw Lebanon decide to go there from the Americas back to Lebanon and kick out the locals does it make them more Lebanese than the Lebanese?
            Idiot stupid etc. does not change the facts. Apparently you read my text. You did not get it… Then you’re a moron with a philosophy degree… LOL

          119. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            He said he’s doing it … hasn’t completed the course. ;-))

          120. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            ?? “Apparently you read my text” I just read this now as I’m typing, what are you talking about.

          121. So You are Aramean (Maronite?), not Orab yet?

          122. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            LOL YUP you nailed it like you people nail others on the cross… 😉

          123. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Phoenician evolved to Aramaic (the lingua franca of the Middle East) It later split off to Hebrew, Syriac, and Nabataean, which became an ancestor of Arabic which evolved into Lebanese Levantine Arabic.
            Denying your true roots is your choice…
            All of us spoke and wrote one common language… Aramaic.

          124. Can You read
            ܚܕ ܓܕܝܐ ܚܕ ܓܕܝܐ ܕܙܒܢ ܐܒܐ ܒܬܪܝ ܙܘܙܝ ܚܕ ܓܕܝܐ ܚܕ ܓܕܝܐ
            or type Phoenician?

          125. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            You are too square.

          126. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            The Phonetician obsession.

          127. Rid yourself from Microsoft

          128. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I wouldn’t touch Microsoft with …. .
            Well ,anyway, I also refuse to install libraries of text and languages which are unusable and suck up hard-drive space dedicated to the design of the female form.

          129. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I also do nothing in ‘clouds’.

          130. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal
          131. لماذا yalibnan حذف الروابط الآرامية ولوحة المفاتيح فنيقي؟

          132. Can You read and type, write Syriac and Phoenician?

          133. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            When transliterated I understand quite a bit. I cannot read it with its native script. I want to learn it though. Our priests though can. It is mandatory for Maronite priests to learn it.
            Some Lebanese who are “married” falsely to Arabism don’t want to accept the fact that Levant Arabic is really not pure Arabic. As a matter of fact if you were to say mother in Arabic you say “oummi” whereas in Lebanese it is “emme” which is Phoenician-Syriac.

          134. If You want out of the box font support for Syriac, Phoenician also Egypt hieroglyphs, cuneiform install http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.04/release/
            fonts for windows http://www.atour.com/fonts/ or for ubuntu http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/x11/ttf-xfree86-nonfree-syriac

          135. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Thank you.

          136. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Sorry boys …. I confess, once again, I have had difficulty getting past the first lesson ….

          137. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            lol

          138. also Ugaritic, Meroitic, Old Persian, Proto-Sinaitic etc.:)

          139. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Similar to Arabic in the Mass below..sorry for mixing up i have to run. It started with Jewish Aramaic with Galilean accent:))

          140. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad
          141. يزيل الآرامية yalibnan

          142. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Beautiful…
            Here is a gift for you…
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7MyqXdjhVA

          143. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Thank you for this.
            Christianity gave birth to Raphael, Leonardo Da Vinci, greatest Renaissance masterpieces in Europe.

          144. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Beautiful… Thank you.

          145. Can You write, type Aramaic, Syriac or Phoenician?

          146. “zionists” is derogatory? for jews living in their home Israel (Judea, Palestina?) or your mental masturbation on jews

          147. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Zion is the religion, Zionism is a Fascist movement created in 1916. Many Jews are anti-Zionism.

          148. “Zionism is a Fascist movement”: mad slander

          149. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            International Jewish anti Zionism Network.
            http://www.ijan.org/

            What percentage of the Jews in the world consider themselves to be “Zionists” Jews?
            http://www.truetorahjews.org/qanda/demographics

          150. rather than meddle in the affairs of the Jews think about how to help Iraq or Kurdistan or Syria

          151. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Stop meddling..

          152. if you want, don’t pay attention to my comments

          153. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            OK

          154. Many corrupted Jews are “anti-Zionists” or anti-Israel or “self hating” because mostly may be cash flow, their business

          155. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Whatever.. let me be please, thank you.

          156. Jews are not angels, just people, not “chosen”, and often the object or subject for aggression, hate etc.

          157. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            Correct description!

            The Arabs keeps the term “Palestinian refugees” alive becouse they have only a big mouth!
            All they manage to produce since the battle of Kaybar is hot air.

            Those arabs that hate the Jews use the term “Palestine”, “Palestinians” in order to justify aggression and hate against Jews.

            They did not succeeded to “liberate” this non existing country, they only succeeded to gather large anti-Israeli protests with slogans of “Down with” America “down with” Israel “!

            Unbelievable that so few Jews can stand against hundreds of million hating muslims.

            I must admit that I admire the courage of the Jews.

          158. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Palestine comes before Arabs, please i have no time for this, have a nice day.

          159. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            It is ALWAYS ” i have no time for this” when you are pressed against the wall.

          160. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Why you don’t discuss with others?

          161. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            I discuss with others, you are just an مجنون

          162. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            I discuss with others, but you embarrass many intellectual arabs with your easy mixing historians and science, according to your own understanding.

          163. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Let the intellectual Arabs complain to me..thank you.

          164. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            The intellectual Arabs prefer The Daily Star.

          165. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            as are Palestinians no angels, just a people, so stop your jeremiads it’s boring

          166. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Well, then, a Jewish problem … why dump it on us like the Muslims do?

          167. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            CORRECTION;
            “Zion (Hebrew: צִיּוֹן‎ Ṣiyyôn), also transliterated Sion, Syon, Tzion or Tsion, is a place name often used as a synonym for Jerusalem.”
            Now we will see if you reject the source (Wikipedia) as serious…

          168. Thank You

          169. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Wikipedia is edited, UN-edited, re-edited and i call it the Babel Tower..however when Jerusalem fell to David in beginning of 10th cent.BC it was already considered holly, Melchizedek was “priest of the most high God” referred to as Salem in Genesis, long before the conquest, before Abraham entered Canaan from Ur.

          170. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            Indeed Wikipedia is edited, but everyone have the full access to edit the information if it is wrong – but then it is must be also proven with facts and sources.

          171. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Calling Palestine a fake country is derogatory as well… I guess we are even 🙂

          172. Another one Orabic state or more chaliphate just instead of Israel (with Judea and Samaria) is not good concept

          173. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            I am not fond of neither… Having an Orabic state or an O Rabbi state is still the same shit to me… I want a modern state where religion does NOT matter.

          174. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            What do you call people living in a region called Palestine? How long do people have to live in a geographical area before they can call it home? 3000 years? 1500 years? 500 years? 67 years? Why can’t you and the other zionist get it through your pea sized brains? The Palestinians have just as much of a legitimate claim to the land. You guys can accuse them of being fake and a lie until you turn blue in the face. However, the reality will continue to exist. You’ll have to find a realistic and lasting solution to the situation or it will eat you inside out.

          175. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            I call them Palestinians, thats what the British called people who lived there. My post isn’t intended to say that they can’t have a claim and that there shouldn’t be a two state solution (thats a different topic). My post is specifically directed at Hannibal’s ridiculous claim that the Palestinians of today are descendants of Greek tribes mentioned in the Old Testament or what Aristotle mentions – simply because.. wait for it: “they are called Palestinians”. Its called playing with words, but the useful idiots believe it.

          176. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Man-O … Contemplate this as a ‘Chronology’ of feelings about home ownership.
            Generally, speaking … sometime in ‘the past’… an ‘Empire’ took the land.
            Then they looked at it for an income, to pay the expense of taking it.
            Some land that was already occupied they left as it was. The people on the land (with homes) just shifted who they paid taxes to, and kept on doing what they always had.
            Some land that seemed relatively empty was divided into parcels. Some they actually even gave away to favourite cousins. And some was sold off, deemed too expensive to maintain for various reasons. (human psychology at work – suckers born every minute)
            The ones who had been given the land, didn’t like paying the taxes back to the Empire.
            Eventually the Empire decided it was better not to bother, and said;
            ‘To hell with it. It’s a bad investment. We’ll just keep some business going there.’
            The ones who got the land for free had similar choices to make then. Buy the next guy’s parcel – or simply Grab It … especially if he vacates for any given reason. For example, slowly move the fence-line, and see if anyone bitches … or has enough money to pay for long court battles … because lawyers invented the line:
            ‘Possession is 9 points of the Law’.
            The ‘Wild West’ operated like that for roughly 40 years … it wasn’t the Indians making problems most of the time. And the people who got land for free always seemed to want more than the ones who had to buy and work it. Assume those who actually worked for it appreciated everyone’s efforts more than the ones who didn’t. Psychology again.
            When it came to battles between sheep, cattle, or cotton, some new LAW was needed.
            A few generations adjusting to new law is needed. I suppose.
            Could we say 200? At some point, if they worked hard elsewhere, some original owners’ resulting family-line could even come back to buy the ‘old homestead’ back from the guy who got it for free. 😉

          177. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Very NICE, Hannibal … well done.
            (they really need translators ‘over there’ … don’t they.)

          178. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            And yet doron never denied that the NAME existed. What he said is that there was never a state called palestine.

          179. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            There were British and French colonies..but doron ….

          180. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            You’re such a useful idiot sometimes.

          181. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Darn … again I only make the ‘sometimes’ list …

          182. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            lol

          183. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Was your comment deleeeted?:))

          184. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Nope … Im an angel. 🙂

          185. doron Avatar

            Ok…
            In the old testemony the word is originali “pleshet” and it comes to describe 5 coastal cities where the “plishtim” lived. The greek that traveled by sea encounterd them first and reffered to it as palestina.there was never a state or a kingdom named palestine.
            Now, to continue with the history lesson
            Those people, the plishtim were not native to the region : red hair tall sea men, hardly fitting the arab description.
            As mentioned above The 5 cities were coastal.the plishtim never succeeded pushing inland into israelits lands and were completly removed from the land (and history pages)by king david.
            Ironicly, what people today refer to as palistine was never ever ocupid by the plishtim but was the jewish kingdom
            So : there was never a state called palestine. The greek named it after the first people they met at ports.
            that the palistinians are decended of thw plishtim is also imposible

            Never was a kingdom called palistinfake people with fake history has no future

          186. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            “red hair tall sea men” … wow … the Vikings did the Med too? Interesting ….

          187. doron Avatar

            First..the vikings did get to the med too.
            Second ,the plishtim pre dated the vikings about 1000 years so whats your point?

          188. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Maybe it was a ‘dye-job’….
            I saw a woman yesterday with hair that matched her orange shoes … talk about ‘Fashion statements’ … did not see colour co-ordinated hand-bag.

          189. doron Avatar

            hard to say, they say red haired population is soon to be extinct, something about dominating gens. or god’s way of telling them they attract too much attention 🙂

          190. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Especially if we keep boinking the cute Chinese girls ….
            But yes, there seems fewer red-heads …. the darker ‘auburn’ seemed more attractive than the brighter reddish-blonde … with fewer freckles too. But what the heck, eh? ;-))
            Have you noticed that jet-black haired women seem to go slightly bald more often?
            (observation)
            I’m sure there are people who just want all of us to turn grey – like their spirits.

          191. Jordan is kingdom in Palestine (or in Canaan?)

          192. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Jordan was a River in Canaan…wake up ..boring.

          193. Jordan is still river, between Israel and… Hashemite Jordanian kingdom (eastern part of Palestina) “East-Bank of Jordan River” is Samaria, Judea is “Easr-Shore of Dead See”

          194. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Sharq el-Ordon in Arabic.. but the Dead Sea is dead today.. it was mentioned in Geologia by Aristotle 400 BC.

          195. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            In Arabic: نهر الأردن‎ (Nahr al-Urdun), still wrong مجنون

          196. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            شرق نهر الأردن
            East of River Jordan

          197. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            Whatever…

          198. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            State of Jordan name in Arabic.. ouff..

          199. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            they say the same when you walk by, I’m sure …. 😉

          200. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Communication seams difficult.

          201. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

          202. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            The river has a major significance in Judaism and Christianity and, to a more moderate degree, Islam, as the site where the Israelites crossed into the Promised Land and where Jesus of Nazareth was baptised by John the Baptist.

            The Jordan River (in traditional English River Jordan) (Hebrew: נהר הירדן‎ Nahar haYarden; Arabic: نهر الأردن‎ Nahr al-Urdun NOT Shark AL ORDON !) is a 251-kilometre (156 mi)-long river in West Asia flowing to the Dead Sea. Israel and Palestine border the river to the west, while the Golan Heights and Jordan lie to its east. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan takes its name from this river.

          203. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Yes i know, did you read..i said Shark el Ordon was created after WW1.

          204. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            The ‘marriage’ customs … where ‘Kingdoms’ change every once in a while …
            All the male rulers of the dynasty took the name “Ptolemy”, while princesses and queens preferred the names Cleopatra, Arsinoe and Berenice. Because the Ptolemaic kings adopted the ‘Egyptian custom’ of marrying their sisters, many of the kings ruled jointly with their spouses, who were also of the royal house. This custom made Ptolemaic politics confusingly incestuous, and the later Ptolemies were increasingly feeble. The only Ptolemaic Queens to officially rule on their own were Berenice III and Berenice IV. Cleopatra V did co-rule, but it was with another female, Berenice IV.
            Cleopatra VII officially co-ruled with Ptolemy XIII Theos Philopator, Ptolemy XIV, and Ptolemy XV, but effectively, she ruled Egypt alone.

          205. doron Avatar

            you have a kink for perversions :))))

          206. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            At my age, there’s lots of kinks …. 😉
            Here we see the first time ‘Israel’ is a gift to people … not well appreciated by some …
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donations_of_Alexandria

          207. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            Did you published your research?

          208. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            i read it here ….. can’t you see it? Check your text colour. :-))))

          209. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Did you publish yours, we don’t do research here.
            Canaan dates from the Stone Age..good luck.

          210. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            That’s the main point – there was Palestine in Canaans land, period!

          211. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            After Did published becomes publish 😉 Now THAT is research for you…

          212. Intouchable Avatar
            Intouchable

            tanks for the “Did” ……

          213. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Intouchable is in French

          214. doron Avatar

            any comments?
            it is 3 days now and still no word from you Hannibal.
            i’d like to read your objections or an apology for calling me a moron if you have none.
            thats how real men behave!

          215. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            This is a Byzantine argument… I am not convinced. You can go as back into history to learn that Neanderthals were the natives in the land and homo sapiens are the invaders.

            The key point here is the argument of exclusively taking over Palestine by the Jews. you know that people were living as nomads and whether red haired people or the sea people invaded or not the locals ALWAYS remained. Many tribes were living in the same land: Amorites, Hittites, Hebrew, Aramaic people, Egyptians, Philistines, bedouin Arabs, Canaanites, Phoenicians… etc
            By 3000–2200 BC (Bronze age), Canaanite city-states existed on the plains and in coastal regions of Palestine. When Alexander invaded he found it easy to take over the entire region (Except for Tyre) because the city states competed for resources and hated each others. During the Iron Age the Philistines (Sea People probably of Aegean origin), occupied the southern coast of Canaan, and MINGLED with the local population, absorbing the Canaanite language and losing their separate identity by 500 BC. They ALL became canaanites.
            That also happened in Phoenicia where it has been proven that the Phoenicians gained their maritime prowess from the sea people integration.
            The Israelites emerged from a social transformation that took place amongst the Canaanite people around 1200 BC, with no signs of violent invasion or even of peaceful infiltration of a clearly defined ethnic group from elsewhere. The Israelites were therefore descendants of the original early Iron Age occupants of the uplands of Canaan. Therefore the biblical story of the conquest of Canaan by Joshua has been disproven. The Israelites just became a new tribe like a family within a family of the canaanites. Nobody is denying their origins.
            After Rome’s conquest Christians dominated ALL Palestinian society until late-Byzantine era, MANY Jews converted to Christianity until In 629 Palestine was invaded by Arabs. Arabs constitute only 20% of the levant (J1 haplotype).

            You know following your attitude I can argue that Tunisia, Malta, Cyprus, Sardinia, Spain, Sicily are ALL Phoenicians and we Lebanese should go back and take them over.
            One CANNOT JUST displace people ad hoc. That is NOT right. All I am saying is COEXIST in ONE state and live in peace as one nation. The alternative is very UGLY. You will radicalize the entire region like Assad did to Syria and Maliki did to Iraq. Wake up.

          216. doron Avatar

            i gave
            you the earliest description available. and you are evading the point.

            lets go
            through the points again:

            the
            description i gave comes from the same old testimony you took the time to quote
            from.

            if any,
            the description you supplied is the “byzantine” one cause it is based
            on late translations of the old testimony while i gave the original

            a great
            example for the difficulties of translation is the statue of Moses with the 10
            commandments by Michelangelo where the artist put horns on Moses’s
            head due to incompetent translation

            you’re avoiding the fact that the Plishtim disappeared from history
            pages thousands of years before arabia people started migrating

            the land you call Palestrina never belonged to the plishtim

            the name you call the land is a latin name which by itself should lite
            some red lights

            by 500 bc- the place was the kingdom of Israel when the Canaanites were
            long extinct.

            you spawn a nice theory here but the nicest part about it is that it’s
            out of touch with historic facts and you fail to back it up with facts. Where is
            the archeological evidence of the so called connection between the Arabs who
            took the Greek name and plishtim who used to live here?

            Where are the mentioning of history linking them to the land?

            Where is the foundation on which the arabs can base their claim to be descended
            of the plishtim?

            Where is palistine? what was it ? who were it’s kings? I can give you a
            detailed list of names of all Hebrew kings and the years they ruled from the
            bible , we will debate it’s authenticity yet the cloud looming over your theory
            will be always the same: you can not give an alternate version to history and
            by that I mean – No proof what so ever, no evidence to back the tale of a
            palistinian kingdom or history.

            Mybe in an alternat universe but defently not in the one we live in

          217. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            You live in denial…

            The modern jewish people is an invention.

            We lived in peace with the Levant Jews before you people (Europeans and Russians) came to Palestine and stole the culture of the land. Read Shlomo Sand:

            While acknowledging “the affinity between Jews and the holy land,” Sand has said that “I don’t think the religious affinity to the land gives you historical right.”
            Sand has said that Israel “raped a population. And not only a population – we destroyed this society, in constituting the Israeli state.”
            Israelis, being “one of the most racist societies in the western world,” will never accept a one state solution. Thus he supports a “two state solution on the borders of ’67, taking out most of the settlers. I don’t think it will be a big problem.”

            You people are worse than the Nazis… Living amongst them in Germany you became them.

          218. doron Avatar

            you hit the wall :))) you chose to debate me on theological ground, you chose to look for the bible to back you up.
            now that you see you can not explain your theories you go back to the “traditional” childish approach : “it is ours!!! it is ours!!! and i don’t owe you explenantions!!!”
            ” you europian (?!im from ME or did you forget it?) came here and took OUR land!!!”..but no justification or proof to back it up..
            and then according to the guid book you end with the traditional “nazi crap” :))
            now run along to the chore of online friends to ease your mind and tell you that they think like you and that i’m lying and all the self justification you can master but remember always: you could not produce a single undebatable fact to support your vesrion of history!
            i expected more from you but i see i was wrong in that

          219. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Then read Arthur Koestler if you have an intellect beside the Bible. One of the greatest writers in the 20th century. A British born Hungarian Jew prolific writer, journalist, covered WWII, served in the British Army, covered 1948 War in Palestine, knew Ben Gurion, Shamir, Begin.. among others of his works; “The scums of the Earth”..and “The Thirteenth Tribe: http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/17219.Arthur_Koestler

          220. Koestler’s theory “was almost entirely hypothetical and based on the slenderest of circumstantial evidence”, book is evidence that Koestler’s brain “was starting to fail him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe

          221. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Why you don’t leave me alone discuss with others..you’re illiterate..and keep your wkipediatry

          222. just stop your desinformation, try to post something true

          223. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-jewish-people-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539By Dr. Joseph De Soto MD,

            (have to subscribe)

            PhD, FAIC
            06 Jan 2014 04:25AM

            I have reviewed Dr. Elhaik’s paper and reviewed the previous papers by
            Ostler etc…. I am an Orthodox Kohen by DNA and Oral Tradition..I say
            this before i get attacked. I agree with Elhaik. The conclusions by many of the previous researchers are fraudulent and not based on the evidence. Elhaik conclusions are based on science.. My conclusions are objective and will be published soon. It is without question that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazars…..Now, then next question, is what does this mean?. I leave this to others The Jewish people’s ultimate treasure hunt

            10 Feb 2013
            09:57PM
            It’s a big lie to say all Jews are from Abraham and Sarah. Those 2
            persons are myth. Current Jews in the world belong to different ethnic
            groups, only religion united them. Poeple criated all funy stories
            wiritten in Torah. God never promised any land, and never chose one ethnic group to be His people.

          224. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Stop citing us you idiot self.

          225. doron Avatar

            i’ll read it but how is that related to Hannibal inability to contradict history? cause that’s what hitting the wall means…perhaps “dead end” is better description
            you can not take a late translation and use it to prove the original is wrong. 🙂
            and i’ll end with the usuall parting words:
            if you have something you believe is a proof i would love to debate it with you , if it turns out to prove you are right , i’ll apologize and stop spreading my version..i can only hope you’ll take the same comitment on yourself ( i know you will not but still…;))

          226. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            You’re right i won’t it’s a loss of time, as for Hannibal it regards Hannibal.

          227. “Some 360 families in the area descend from Aramaic-speaking refugees who
            in the 1920s fled the Tur Abdin region of what is now Turkey” http://www.timesofisrael.com/jesuss-language-resurrected/

          228. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Those who kicked them out were ISIS stooges who discovered time travel and came back to 1920s… 😉

          229. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Kurdish Jews on the river island of Zakho spoke an Aramaic dialect called “Targum” until fleeing to Israel in the 1950s.

          230. So here was or is phoenician, variety of aramaic, hebrew, ugaritic, syriac, greek., latin, orabic. turkic. cherkessian also lebanese etc. languages and writings but never was or is falsetinian language and writing. Again, “Falsetinian” orabs, “chosen people” invented in KGB USSR in 60s like soviet people invented in 1922

          231. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Rather a Russian Khazar Zeev Jabotinsky, of Slavic genetics invented Revisionist Zion, with no connection to the Middle East.

            http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-jewish-people-s-ultimate-treasure-hunt.premium-1.490539

          232. again your schizophasia, 70% of israel media leftist bs

          233. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            You don’t know Jabotinsky was Russian Revisionist who created the Zionist Movement?

          234. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            listen, i never watch your link .. forget it..

          235. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            oh, anything conflicting with your ‘opinion’ must be avoided at all costs.. eh sweetie???lol!☻

          236. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            You’re a product of these links Zio

          237. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            time to medicate again sweetie….LOL!!☻

          238. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            ADL. Elders of Zion.
            Right wing religious fanatics are not the most educated, they believe in Adam and Eve. Dinosaurs are censured.

          239. You don’t like truth, EoZ is not fake, You can comment there

          240. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            ..stop the ridicule

          241. Ignorant, is Your native language Orabic?

          242. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I speak 4 languages..get off my postes

          243. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            lol sweetie, and 3 of them are only known to you…lol!!|☻

          244. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I told you a year ago, the Bible is not a history book.

          245. Historic Gamla f.e. was found by the Bible etc., so you are fake, not Bible

          246. doron Avatar

            oh really? :))))
            well historians disagree with you, archeological evidece support bible stories.
            the books that follow the 5 books of Tora corelate with historic events, yet I’m supposed to go with what the all mighty hind say? get real will you :))
            and now..do you have another source from the anciant times to support your claim ?i e: everything you base your claims on are from hundreds of years (thousands in most cases) AFTER the events
            bottom line is you try to undermine historic events yet you fail to deliver a proof i’m wrong or even worst- a proof you are right.

          247. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            I prefer dropping barrel bombs on Ramallah.

          248. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            How humane of you… 😛

          249. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Hows Qalamoun victory? 😀 captured some more trees?

          250. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            I don’t know I wasn’t there… 😛

          251. As a professional trouble making mischivious bullshiter myself…….I don’t beleive you mean that Cookie 🙂

          252. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            I’m afraid there’s no other choice. The terrorist capital must be bombed.

          253. You are just in a bratty mood Cookie , You left your webcam on and I am showing what you did this morning when you posted that comment :)P

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE0uhqaxS_E

          254. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Omgg lol. I think I’ve spent too much time commenting on Daily Star, here’s how the posters there talk to one another:P

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCet3ekQ0E

          255. Believe it or not I cant watch it “this video contains content from NBC universal, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds” this is how it shows 🙁

          256. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            My car works … I am really not caring. :-)))))

          257. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            blocked..reasons; copyright

          258. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            That MUST have been naughty … It’s BANNED now. :-))))))

          259. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Can’t you read French below? Not banned.

          260. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I got the RED ‘Sorry’ Face …. don’t need to read. :-)))

          261. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I got what i read.

          262. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Ah well .. they are working to make us pay for every ‘bit’ & ‘byte” you want to see on-line. The ‘Free-Net’ concept will go like the DODO bird.
            ‘You want education??? You’re going to PAY!!!’ (and be happy too)

          263. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            i don’t care i don’t watch.. i see Malmequer advising you try Maria Juana

          264. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I don’t know her. I vaguely remember Tequila …. but my tastes were refined.

          265. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            marijuana pot..

          266. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Modern terminology again? Slang. Can’t keep up with ‘locals’.

          267. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Cookie didn’t, obviously …. hohohohoho

          268. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Hum? it’s not closed in London…or was he in Haifa..where he was already?

          269. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Real Housewives of New Jersey is banned in the U.S.?? ugh lol

          270. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Oh .. well, regarding housewives ….

          271. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Gay marriage is not real marriage, sorry.

          272. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            No, not banned, it said for copyright reasons.. 5th doesn’t live in US, you know that:)

          273. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            lolz

          274. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            lolz..

          275. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Tonight I’m getting the Poor English ‘alternate’ message….

          276. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Hohohohohohoho …. ‘modern’ KIDS … screwed. :-)))
            (lost digits in his war-game …. )

          277. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            That’s not cookie… That was Doron after he read my comment. he he

          278. lol, I think all my Hebrew friends are bent out of shape over your reply, Fake Palestinians are like fake boobs if I can squeeze them….they exist and are still very real :)P

          279. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Geo … that is SO accurate … even though I would not recommend the operation, I had occasion to sample a perfectly-packed pair during a massage one day (always memories … sigh) …. and even if I knew there was an unnatural firmness, it didn’t matter… the nipples still rose to the occasion. ;-)))

          280. You dirty white boy lol, boob jobs are too expensive and not safe ,I opted to to have have my hands reduced in size instead =D

          281. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Certainly no way to treat a Samurai Sword …. no respect at all. 😉

          282. doron Avatar

            hardly 🙂
            i don’t let emotions get the best of me and there is nothing you said that i didn’t have an answer to 😉

            it is a funny video though 🙂

          283. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Here in the Middle East, fool.

            “Before jihadists overran this mountain town in 2013, Maaloula was one of the oldest Christian communities in Syria, where Western Aramaic—the language of Jesus Christ is still spoken. It was also a place of profound peace where Sunni and Shiite Muslim residents, along with their Christian neighbours, forged a pact early in the war to avoid the sectarian conflict ripping their country apart.”

            The New Exodus: Christians Flee ISIS in the Middle East
            http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/new-exodus-christians-flee-isis-middle-east-316785.html

          284. Is this Odeh Yinon Plan, fool

          285. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Also written in 2006 …..
            “Iran may not care too much whether Iraq is partitioned or not as long as the Shia retain political & military dominance.
            The chaos in Iraq today may seem like mindless sectarian strife but theres a lot more going on — preparation & posturing for a major clash that all sides now consider inevitable.”

          286. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Are a sectarian too.. pfhh..

          287. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Oooh sweetie, a conspiracy??? lol!☻

          288. doron Avatar

            she calles 5th a sectarian cause he quotes something from 2006 predicting Iran’s secterian actions in 2014 !! hahaha yet she is a secterian herself. her devotion is to the butcher. he is only killing “forign jihadists”.

            and if someones dare to contradict her or ask her for clearfications then he/she is a secterian.when she is cornered the you might expect “i’m not feeling too well, i promise i’ll answer later”..yeah right 😉
            she must be mentaly ill cause a sane person would figure out by now how dumb his/her story is when confranted with facts..yet we know dear hind never let facts stand in her way.
            expect a tantrum response, coupled with “talmud” “zionazi” propaganda videos in 5..4…3..2…1
            :)))))

          289. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            LOL! You nailed he/she/it perfectly. Basically, he/she/it is not welcome or compatible with its host country, Canada. It idealizes its home country to a point of absurdity and tries to give meaning to its life by ‘fighting’ a proxy battle with imaginary friends and elusive boogie-men. 99.9/100, like you said, “talmud, zionazi”. It’s its’ way of projecting its inner rage and frustration onto a quantifiable entity.

          290. doron Avatar

            the stuff Psychiatrists make fortune off :))

          291. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Omg I wanna be a psychiatrist now

          292. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            This from a dedicated gambler. 😉 But if you’re going that route … Dear Doctor …
            I ‘Rage’ at things too … for instance, selling natural resources AWAY to other countries OR privatizing them, which is basically the same thing. Electric Power Dummies too.
            AND Poor planning which builds cities on farmland while stacking up populations in hovels – while making them think it’s wonderful they don’t need to mow a lawn.
            Do you want the whole list now? Or is ‘time’ limited?
            Nobody listens to me either.

          293. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            (when malmuckies drive others insane …)

          294. doron Avatar

            she is not right in the head 5th and you know that as well as I do 🙂
            you might not use blunt words out of respect to her ( why , i have no idea) but i have no respect for her now. I used to respect her a little for standing up for her pronciples ,even though i believed (and still do ) she is wrong, but after yarmuk exposed her true colors i.e oblivious to pali suffering where palis do not serve her cause,i have zero patiant towards her or the crap(!) she spreads.
            regarding malmequer, he probably gave up on her long before i joined this site and i can understand him- seeing a person confronted with hard evidence and still denying who and what she is can frustrate you or make you redicule that person. he went for redicule 🙂

          295. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Well, Doron … even without conspiracy thinking, I’d say he – and a ‘certain friend’ – went beyond simple ridicule … although I suppose not everyone worries about ‘script’ in a blog. The ‘Big O’ laughs at my ‘sensitivities’.
            I can respect her doggedness … and admire anyone who has a feeling for Art & Music.
            Don’t you have a friend you can disagree with on ‘political issues’ and yet still have a coffee with, and talk about (an example) best lure to fish with?
            NOT everything every day needs to be these Damned Religiosity discussions. In fact, it’s what most of the absolute crappiness of some ‘Life’ in people seems to have produced.
            We come here to talk about ‘failed states’, and how to maybe fix one (because that’s why the site was begun), and yet end up in the religious and morbid instead. The ‘site’ changed over time as well. All ‘discussions’ reflect ‘agendas’, perhaps.
            Of course, whenever I write something to highlight the inconsistencies, no-one argues.
            In older age I see relatively little ‘moderninity’ going on … besides the Twits doing Tweets.
            I can fit in, when I want, and ignore when I want. Agree or disagree.
            And as you note, agree to disagree. I know only TIME will tell. Human time is short.
            History actually shows some ‘proofs’ of ‘time passage’ and am not going to refute those.
            I am also not going to go live on a river-delta and be among those, for example, who wash into the Bay of Bengal every year to feed sharks, because there’s no space left on drier land. This past week, even their cow-covered beaches were too hot. It wasn’t the sharks that got them this time. I’d dare to say it was lack of knowing history.

          296. doron Avatar

            Its more then political disagreement 🙂 this person is obssesed with one thing and that is tarnish and rejecting israel.its criminalizing israel more often then not by recycling lies.
            I came to this site thinking to build bridges , 14 years after we withdrew seemed like a good time to start but to be honest it’s still impossible. Ibcan joke with this guy or the other but under this thin vail no one on this forum feels i jave a right to have my state not to mention peace.
            I dont want to repel attacks on israel all day long but now i feel it is my duty 🙂
            I just wish this guys wake up one day and understand it is never going to happen, we are not going to disapear from here so better accept us. With all modesty, i believe we can help lebanon alot in every field and its a waste you people chose to over look that but thats your decision to make. and till better times we also possess the ability to destroy lebanon simply beacuse you need a big stick in the neiborhood

          297. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I understand you Doron. When I’m standing in Tripoli and a guy asks my friend where I’m from, and the reply is ‘Canada’, which results in INSTANT horror/anger on a face and the illogical exclamation: ‘Ohhh Israeli Spy!’ .. (and we leave the scene fast) .. I KNOW You have a huge image problem to overcome …. and dolts like the one who said that are NOT going to be educated by having pleasant conversations and diverse discussions.
            Frankly, it’s not MY problem … it’s yours … the whole lot of you ‘over there’. I’d say the whole Muddled East is filled with more than the average amount of CRAZIES.
            I ‘got into’ the Blog because I know some who are not crazy, but suffer because of those ‘systems’ … a ‘duty’ to them, if I wish to TRY to save their lives. I must be crazy too…
            The Religions are insane, if they are promoting all the death and destruction.
            I know the ‘political planners’ of the past were assholes.
            I know we have a bunch of those these days too – even here.
            I know Tribes are above ‘country’. I know Israelis didn’t invent everything on the planet. I know no-one is born ‘equal’ and we should be educated to recognize our own ‘level’ of competence, instead of belong programmed to believe we should all be allowed to rise to the level of incompetence demonstrated by so many ‘political science’ students – who cannot find a job elsewhere. We are not all Rock Stars or great composers either. We are not all ‘Rembrants’ even if we took an art course. A piece of paper may only help survival if it is used to begin a fire … but I know paper wouldn’t be my first choice either.
            Yes .. MORE than political disagreement. There is a basic LACK of acknowledging the ‘simple’ in human life, in these ‘modern times’. Many have forgotten them.
            And they will die because of that … in a ‘History Time’ where we have accumulated so much knowledge about what is ‘us’ and about what kills ‘us’.
            ‘Sharing’ has gone out the window – even if some of us try to show it is a necessity.
            No-one wants to live in the ‘Stone-Age’ again, even if those folks were fairly inventive for their levels of understanding. But people should know where humans and other animals WILL be if they can’t stop to learn how to ‘allow’ other tribes just to ‘BE’.

            Remember the SeaGulls in the animated cartoon? ‘Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine …..’. I thought it was an insightful moment. :-))

          298. Anti ISIS Avatar
            Anti ISIS

            Can I also get a “you nailed it” for pointing out the shit that comes out of your mouth. Pleeeeeeease.

          299. doron Avatar

            actually , it’s a very good anlasys

          300. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            You’ve never nailed anything.. if you ever do (which I doubt ever will happen), sure… until then, keep salivating,,,, stay there with your cheeks spread until further notice.

          301. Malmequer0 Avatar
            Malmequer0

            You’ve nailed it, I’m the virus link.. better not link to me or i will spread above my capacities

          302. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Thanks for the warning.

          303. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            And you, of course, are not allowing any religion to run your life.

          304. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            correct… nor scotch nor psychosis medication.

          305. Malmequer0 Avatar
            Malmequer0

            I prefer Maria Juana ..

          306. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Same thing, psychosis medication.

          307. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            lol sweetie… who are you ‘talking’ to???☻

          308. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            to you.

          309. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Maybe there is a 12-step-program that you could take for that…. lol, sweetie☻Oh, and BTW, you were ‘talking’ to the 12 comment version of someone who uses the same picture as avatar that I use (from a yard sale in St Bruno).. cheap amateur crap but amusing….lol!!

          310. The shite Qom tranny only knows 12-step tranny dance and sex routines which IT encorporates before and during mutah sessions to please the Kharatullahs at Qom.

          311. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            LOL! Yep, pretty much sums it up….

          312. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Not interested..sorry.

          313. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            ooooh, so funny sweetie… not.☻

          314. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Not interested..sorry.

          315. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Why??? Don’t yo ever want to fit in to a community???LOL☻

          316. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Whats your academic background

          317. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Depends on how one calculates, awards / accomplishments, or on paper (degrees)… in all aspects, could be summarized as top decile vis-a-vis general pop. Why?

          318. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Just thought you do psychology or something

          319. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Oh, sort of, 1 of 3 is B.A. w/M in scociology

          320. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Hmmm, never liked sociology tbh. I’m applying for an MSc in a business school here.

          321. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Why? Insecure?
            John Gilbert since 2009
            Accomplishments:
            ID thief with stolen Malmequer discus since 2012 on Al Jazeera.
            Stolen Hind Abyad Avatar award for teenage retard scribbler.
            award in Graphic porn vocabulary B.A.+M in scatology, or paper (degrees) in all aspects, accomplished award for the longest parasite stalker psychopath

          322. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            Clearly you have those ‘daddy’ issues happening again… sweetie…..lol!☻

          323. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Hillarious awards hahah…you want a medal from cook2half?

          324. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Why did you edit your original post?

            “Depends on how one calculates, awards / accomplishments, or on paper
            (degrees)…in all aspects B.A. w/M in scociology. Why?

            • Reply • Share ›

          325. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            oh sweetie, the adults were talking…. this is nothing for you to concern yourself with…. LOL☻

          326. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            well..after i pointed out you edited..scociology to sociology, you put it back scatology..

          327. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            whatever sweetie… your eyes don’t work either… or is it the meds??? LOL!☻

          328. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            You think you own Canada because Bnai Brith $$$ owns baby face Harper. Canadians have their Sovereign brains..

          329. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            LOL sweetie, you have no idea what you are talking about… you must be really sore…. having trouble walking??? I know what ‘people’ like you do when you get close to your cousins…. lol sweetie☻

          330. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Giving a taste of your Zio Immorality

          331. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            sweete, you forgot the ‘T’……it’s spelled ‘Immortality’.. you have no clue do you…☻

          332. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            immorality

          333. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            5..4…3..2…1..
            you mean the stalker publishing my regional code 514, spying on where i live pleases you..you’re rotten to the cord or just desperate.

          334. doron Avatar

            Let me make sure i get you.
            You’re blaming me for publishing your regional code?

          335. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            he / she / it claims that 514 is the secret code to ‘her’ private parts. He / she / it is embarrassed for making the statement, so now, when one repeats it, apparently in his / he / its mind, it is an ‘illegal activity’… don’t even try to understand, it stems from the paranoid schizophrenia….. oh and careful with that rotten ‘cord’…

          336. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            MaImequer0 – Hind Abyad – 8 months ago
            lol… thunder storms on the way to Montreal.. get out your diapers…

            That’s IF you can reach….hamster…. Word to the wise, she publicly advertised ‘514’ as being the code to her private parts…lol.

            MaImequer0 – open your eyes • 3 months ago
            LOL!!! Yes, stalking on a public forum….i asked 514 (Island)…it flipped out and said that 514 is the code for its private parts…. it has been freaking out ever since…. every one of its 514 personalities with their 514 conspiracy theories, etc…

            MaImequer0 – Hind Abyad • 3 months ago
            Wow sweetie… it must be 514 below zero on your little island, that’s cold ☻

            MaImequer0 – Open your eyes • 3 months ago
            514 has some significance.. some people in Montreal use it as a code for their private parts.

            MaImequer0 – Hind Abyad • 3 months ago
            wow sweetie, as I told you, find a cashew nut and crazy glue it on to your 514 private region… you will feel better.

            MaImequer0 – Guest • 9 months ago
            I’m sure it a part that hasn’t been used for 514 months.

          337. doron Avatar

            Oh, i thought you’re blaming that on me

          338. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            misunderstanding

          339. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            More like a ‘sextarian’ …. ALWAYS ‘Make Love Not War’.
            And for naturists, here’s the BEST NUDE BEACHES
            http://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/adventuretravel/13-gorgeous-nude-beaches-that-call-for-lots-of-extra-sunscreen/ar-BBki4Qu?ocid=mailsignoutmd

          340. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            From the”Yinon Plan” to the “Ya’alon Strategy

            http://www.voltairenet.org/article186019.html

          341. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Conspiracies. Robin Cook admits CIA created Al Qaeda

            http://www.darkpolitricks.com/robin-cook-admits-cia-created-al-qaeda/

          342. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Conspiracies ..heart attack, suicide, crash.
            http://www.whale.to/b/cook4.html

          343. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad
          344. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Few have such balls.

          345. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            link to virus… again…

          346. Malmequer0 Avatar
            Malmequer0

            My name is not malaria idiot

          347. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I know, it’s John Gilbert.

          348. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            lol! 12 comments….

          349. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I know, it’s John Gilbert.

          350. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            oooh, somebody wrote something somewhere and it jives with you bigotry…. must be true, right sweetie???LOL Daft mare….

          351. MaImequer0 Avatar
            MaImequer0

            link to virus…

          352. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            How sleeping with the devil, how US (Israel) and Saudi of Al Qaeda led to 911.

            http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html PS. Yinon steps.

          353. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            The plan was written during the invasion of Lebanon, it was followed step by step since then.

          354. doron Avatar

            no one would run over Maalula had the butcher not fired on his own people in 2011.
            it’s called cause and result: because the butcher started butchering his own people, resistance grew and Islamic fanatics joined in the fight.
            had the butcher listend , he might have a chance on keeping Syria.now he is reduced to a nother war lord, controling Latakia and parts of damascus only.
            the Butcher has only himself (and his masters) to blame

          355. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Well, I won’t mention Monasteries again …. walling it off isn’t the same as running over it.

          356. doron Avatar

            Didnt we agree to disagree on that one?

          357. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            The butchers were the Syrian Moslem Brotherhood that the US- Israel- McCain, Robert Ford, ambassador to Syria, ex ambassador to Iraq, France Zionist Malash Sarkozy, Bernard Henri Levy.. who created the “revolution” in 2009.
            First acts of the “revolution”; Homs Syrian Christians beheaded, cut in pieces, left on street corners thrown in alleys to be eaten by dogs.

          358. doron Avatar

            lol..
            which corosponds exactly to what described: inability to accept reality at face value, a nessecity to have an imagined arch-vilain which controls the world
            FWI dear, Syrian MB’s were virtually non existing under the butcher and his father’s rule. even now they are not a fighting force .
            your conspiracy theories don’t hold water dear..as always

          359. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            yo corospond con$piracy..not theorie$.
            I$rael Netanyahu regime, neo-Nazi.

          360. doron Avatar

            A where are the mb you spoke about.
            B had assad chose to share power instead of becoming thw butxher,the conditions that led to the jihadi invation were never met.
            Its all the butcher’s fault.

          361. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Soporific..

          362. doron Avatar

            And were chaced and prosecuted by assad senior to the point they disapeard from syria .
            Assad family had a ficsation about a one party one candidat democracy and having another party present kind of ruines the system

          363. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I think it’s repetition.

          364. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            “..which corosponds exactly to what described: inability to accept reality at face value..”

            Who do you think you are .. Kink of NATO?
            Maaloula was invaded by Saudi proxies Al Nusra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIxEqPTJnws

          365. doron Avatar

            I am doron.

          366. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I am doron = inability to accept reality at face value..

          367. doron Avatar

            :)) you see :)) it’s much nicer this way and more amusing too
            instead of searching the web for more conspiracy theories you cut& paste, you can put your mind into amusing word games.
            people like you more when you do not help spreading lies, you even made me smile now

          368. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            I don’t spread lies.

          369. doron Avatar

            hmm…”zipora menachem”?

          370. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            During 2011Christian slaughters in Homs convents and monasteries were linked on the Internet with Lebanon Patriarch and Bishops receiving eyewitnesses accounts 24 hours a day.

          371. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Can i say same about you, or that would be antisemitic.

          372. doron Avatar

            You can but then ill chalange you and counter with proofs as always

          373. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            This is before Al Nusra came..mother superior was eventually kidnapped along with 8 nuns..

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCEes_hIEj0

        2. Hannibal Avatar
          Hannibal

          Although the plan is set in motion by external forces, the fires are feeding from within… Since I was a kid I have witnessed first hand bigotry from all factions… We cannot blame but the lack of education and the selfish politicians for leading those countries to the abyss.

          1. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            How very true..

  2. State news agency of Saudi Arabia reported that the authorities have
    made two senior members of the Lebanese group “Hezbollah” in the “black
    list” of terrorist activity in the Middle East.

    For terrorist activities outlawed Khalil Yousef Harb, in charge of
    operations “Hezbollah” in Yemen, as well as Muhammad Kabalan, discussed
    by the court in absentia in Egypt for terrorist activity.

    The
    report also says that the intelligence services of Saudi Arabia
    tracking bank accounts and monitoring the movement of 44 Lebanese citizens who
    are in the “Hezbollah” and in the territory of the Kingdom

  3. cook2half Avatar
    cook2half

    Iran should stop meddling in Arab countries.

    1. Always great posts Mano but I am confused , at 5;06 He shouts Allahu akbar and he starts shooting at Allah? I hope He missed 🙁

      1. Hend Abyad Avatar
        Hend Abyad

        These are the moderates “Syrian with beards” Rebels Allahuakbar poets…they can say what they want

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          For Syrians, who wish to live the great ‘Sharia Experience’, I suppose, Yes. 😉
          About as moderate as anything there now.

  4. Hend Abyad Avatar
    Hend Abyad

    Anchorman calls for the genocide of Alawites, in a civilized country he would be arrested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtNYSUqYHw

    1. Anti ISIS Avatar
      Anti ISIS

      I hope an Alawite gets his hands on this piece of shit.

      1. cook2half Avatar
        cook2half

        Hey are you an Alawite? lolz

    2. MaImequer0 Avatar
      MaImequer0

      So, what’s the problem, sweetie??? lol!☻

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      A repeat needed here I see … for the sweaty mass of humanity needing cooler holidays ….
      BEST NUDE BEACHES
      http://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/adventuretravel/13-gorgeous-nude-beaches-that-call-for-lots-of-extra-sunscreen/ar-BBki4Qu?ocid=mailsignoutmd

    2. cook2half Avatar
      cook2half

      Does it have a casino?

      1. Hend Abyad Avatar
        Hend Abyad

        Of course

        1. cook2half Avatar
          cook2half

          They should build a Mecca hotel next to the MGM Grand in Vegas :PP They’ve already got a Venice and an Eiffle Towel

          1. Hend Abyad Avatar
            Hend Abyad

            Haha..Saudi Arabia is Disneyland..while Jihadis destroy world heritage in the Levant.

  5. Wonderful web site. Lots of useful info here. I’m sending it to a few friends ans additionally sharing in delicious. And obviously, แอป Bookfet thanks to your effort!

  6. I enjoy looking through an article that can make men นิยาย แบบเหมาจ่าย and women think. Also, thank you for allowing for me to comment!

  7. I enjoy looking through an article that can make men and เล่นสล็อต women think. Also, thank you for allowing for me to comment!

  8. I enjoy looking through an article that can make men นิยายเหมาจ่าย and women think. Also, thank you for allowing for me to comment!

  9. I อ่านนิยายฟรี enjoy looking through an article that can make men and women think. Also, thank you for allowing for me to comment!

  10. Nice blog here! Also your site loads up fast! What host are you using? Can I get your Review นิวซีแลนด์ affiliate link to your host? I wish my web site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

  11. Nice blog here! อ่าน นิยายออนไลน์ Also your site loads up fast! What host are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my web site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

  12. Nice blog here! Also งานเขียน your site loads up fast! What host are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my web site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

  13. Wonderful web site. Lots of useful info here. I’m sending it to upgobet a few friends ans additionally sharing in delicious. And obviously, thanks to your effort!

  14. Nice blog here! Also your site loads สล็อตร่ำรวย up fast! What host are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my web site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

  15. I enjoy looking through an article that can เว็บ สล็อต ไม่มี ขั้น ต่ำ make men and women think. Also, thank you for allowing for me to comment!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *