Australian police foils Islamic State terror plot

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Australia police foild terror plot
Australian Federal Police Acting Commissioner Andrew Colvin (L) speaks during a press conference as NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione listens, in Sydney, on September 18, 2014 ( William West (AFP) )

Australian police have carried out major anti-terror raids triggered by a call from a senior Islamic State militant for “demonstration killings”, Prime Minister Tony Abbott says.

The raids, involving at least 800 heavily-armed officers, took place in Brisbane and Sydney.

Fifteen people were arrested and one person has been charged with conspiracy to prepare a terrorist attack.

Police say the anti-terror operation was the largest in Australian history.

Reports in the Australian media said a plot involved beheading a random member of the public after draping them in an Islamic State flag.

Addressing a press conference, Mr Abbott said “direct exhortations were coming from an Australian who is apparently quite senior in ISIL (Islamic State) to networks of support back in Australia to conduct demonstration killings here in this country”.

“So this is not just suspicion, this is intent and that’s why the police and security agencies decided to act in the way they have.”

Mr Abbott did not name the Australian concerned. Police last week issued an arrest warrant for former bouncer Mohammad Ali Baryalei, described by local media as Australia’s most senior IS member.
In recent weeks, IS has released video footage showing three foreign nationals seized in Syria being beheaded.

‘Random attacks’

The raids began early on Thursday, with officers executing 25 search warrants across 12 Sydney suburbs.

They followed investigations into a Sydney-based group “alleged to have the intent to carry out random attacks on individuals” in Australia, the Australia Federal Police said in a statement.
“The police activity today was about preventing this group at the earliest possible opportunity and ensuring their plans did not come to fruition,” Acting AFP Commissioner Andrew Colvin said.

One of the arrested men, Omarjan Azari, 22, later appeared in a Sydney court charged with conspiracy to prepare for a terrorist attack.

Prosecutor Michael Allnutt said Mr Azari planned to commit “extremely serious” offences “clearly designed to shock, horrify and terrify” the public.

Raids in Brisbane were not “directly linked” to the Sydney operation but related to a raid last week on an Islamic centre that led to two men being charged with terrorism offences, Mr Colvin said.

Last week, Australia raised its terror threat level to high amid concerns of the growing number of Australians “working with, connected to or inspired by” Islamist groups.

Officials say dozens of Australians have gone to fight in the Middle East for jihadist groups such as Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra (also known as the al-Nusra Front).

At least 60 Australians are believed to be fighting with jihadist groups in Syria and northern Iraq, and 15 Australians have been killed so far in these conflicts, including two suicide bombers.

About 100 more Australians are thought to be actively supporting these groups, police say.

Officials are worried about the impact of both returning fighters and supporters of these groups on domestic security.

It is the first time Australia’s threat level has moved from medium to high – the second-highest rank – since the system was introduced in 2003.

“Medium” means an attack could occur. “High” means an attack is likely and “extreme” means an attack is imminent or has occurred.

Australia has also recently committed troops to the fight against Islamic State.

Mr Abbott, who has been spending a week in an indigenous area in northern Australia, is heading back south to see off departing troops

Analysis: BBC’s Jon Donnison in Sydney

The news of an alleged plot to publicly behead a random Australian will shock many people here, including the vast majority of this country’s long-established moderate Muslim community.

Many Muslims are unhappy with what’s going on in Iraq and Syria but would never resort to violence. These raids risk antagonising the broader Islamic community.

But Australia, like many countries including Britain, is worried about the threat from Islamic State, not just abroad but at home. More than a decade on from Australia’s support for the US-led war in Iraq, the country finds itself embroiled in a conflict that is far from over.

Tony Abbott this week announced he is sending 600 troops to the Middle East to assist in the fight against Islamic State. Security forces clearly face a battle at home too.

BBC

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202 responses to “Australian police foils Islamic State terror plot”

  1. “Police last week issued an arrest warrant for former bouncer Mohammad Ali Baryalei, described by local media as Australia’s most senior IS member.” Hey barabie is this your boyfriend?

    1. $89733098 Avatar

      R u dyslexic? Otherwise how did u get Mohammed when my bf is named David?
      Sounds more like farqed up’s bf.
      is ur wife still performing jihad el nikah with nasty and general combover?

      1. Anti ISIS Avatar

        Iv’e worked it out Barabie, David is a devise that works on batteries. Isn’t he. Don’t worry and get embarrassed about it, A lot people name their toys. You go girl.

        1. $89733098 Avatar

          So u named ur toy nasty asshead obviously. Wasn’t ur wife and mum satisfying enough?

          1. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Hey Barabie, found that picture I took of you holding David, You look so cute together. A couple mad in Hell.

          2. $89733098 Avatar

            As opposed to u and ur mum, a couple made in mutah by Ali.

          3. I love David you dumb fuck! Quit talking bad about him. No reason to bring my lover into this. Just so you know, he just gave it to me in the ass and i loved it. He finished right on my face. He used to be my mothers lover, but now he’s mine.

          4. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Eat shit you animal.

          5. ?

        2. David doesn’t need batteries you scum. He just keeps going and going and going. If his penis was bigger i wouldn’t be able to walk or shit for a week

    2. I love orange penis!!

  2. MekensehParty Avatar
    MekensehParty

    Looks like they finally identified Barabie

    1. $89733098 Avatar

      And the dog pound finally identified u

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar

        Well, it brought a smile … 😉 heheehe … finally got an Aussie story in here.

    2. $89733098 Avatar

      Old broom here u go, educate yourself.

      “The problem, of course, is that all too many Americans can easily see the evil in other people’s actions but unable to see the evil in their own government’s actions. That’s because in their minds they’ve raised the federal government to the level of an idol, one that can do no wrong, especially since it operates through courageous American troops and CIA agents who are always defending our freedoms in whatever they do, including waging wars of aggression against Third World countries that have never attacked the United States, killing innocent children with brutal sanctions, or killing people in a cost-benefit analysis intended, supposedly, to bring the “good life” to the survivors of the onslaught”

      http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m109403&hd=&size=1&l=e

      1. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        Hahahhaahaha the federal government to the level of idol lololololololol
        this is the funniest joke ever!!!
        if anything the federal government and even state government means literally shit to the American people… Hahhaha
        Proves what a bunch of low level “journalists” work for uruknet, and how brainwashed idiots believe everything written on the “internet”
        I guess I wiped the last corner of the Australian desert with you, I think you’re totally useless now, you can retire with the satisfaction of a job well done.

        1. $89733098 Avatar

          Lol the only thing u wiped is the shit dribbling out of ur mouth. I’m still waiting for ur proof that u conveniently avoided. Lmfao I honestly thought u were a worthy opponent once upon time, not for very long tho.

          1. Imposter!

          2. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            proof of what? your level? your comments are ample proof of the open sewer street where you were born and raised to be a hypocrite low-life.
            I really think you should retire the barabie account because you burnt all the bridges with everyone without any chance of return. Whatever you say doesn’t matter to anyone; your opinions and references of shady articles around the globe impress only the hateful brainwashed who were taught to click on some Aljazeera link and download straight to their brains, just like you were taught the Koran – to the letter. No analysis, no interpretations, just repetition. Add to that the non-stop flow of insults; I think you reached the minus infinity. Drop the barabie in the deep Indian ocean with you know who, take a break for a couple of weeks, maybe you’ll really meet a David, and come back with a fresher tongue and a different name. Maybe then we’ll talk.

          3. $89733098 Avatar

            Who the fuck wants to talk with u !!
            I told u to provide proof of the absurd allegations u have made about me but not once have u done that. U have been exposed as the typical cold blooded child killer u truly r. Btw if u r going to bitch about abuse then u shouldn’t abuse but of course a hypocrite like u wouldn’t understand that concept. As for ur repetitive Al Jazeera Al Jazeera Al Jazeera zzzzzzzz.
            U need new material u old broom and pull that broomstick out of ur hole.

          4. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            minus infinity

          5. $89733098 Avatar

            Anyone making absurd claims without proof is nothing but a liar. Go back to eating pop corn while watching Arab children get slaughtered u disgusting child killer. I feel sorry for the dog u call a wife.

          6. u is spelled YOU, u moron! r is spelled ARE u twit!
            You may need to remove the double ended dildo from your mouth and ass so your thoughts may flow more freely

          7. $89733098 Avatar

            And speaking of David, u wish u were even HALF the man he is. U lack integrity, honesty, humanity, courage, intelligence and decency.

          8. Keep my bf name out of your filthy mouth you dumb snatch. You’re pathetic! Get a life loser! How daft are you mare?

    3. 5thDrawer Avatar

      hehehehe … I understood that for the quick witty remark it was … hehehehe
      Problem is, it led to all the crap below. (above)

      1. $89733098 Avatar

        How do u know it was quick? The old broom might’ve read it and 3 hours later posted its comment. R u doing some brown nosing again?

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Yah, sure. 🙂
          One thing … the site doesn’t update the number of comments very fast either.
          I think Disgus is screwed up.
          But even your ‘pic’ is not the same as before.

  3. I pray that btru2 is Ok! One of my only true friends on here. He was passionate, but no terrorist.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      That’s a good question …
      But … GO GO AUSTRALIA !!

      1. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        (fake)barabie • 20 hours ago
        These comments and threats are great example of why Australia needs to arrest these terrorist supporters. Go Go Australia get all these Jihadis off our streets

        hhhhhmmmmm ?!?!?! go go australia……??
        3afrit did warn us……

        1. Hey my Salafi Kalab! Still on the hunt for my identity? I thought you had me pinned already and your baboons were stalking me. Weren’t you going to divulge some personal info about me to the fake barabie whore?

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar

            says the fake …

  4. Reasonableman Avatar
    Reasonableman

    provokes some Saturday morning thoughts. I think the risk in all of this is looking for a single cause. In matters of causation I always go back to the famous Reason model, called thus not because it is about reasons (which it actually is) but which was nutted out by a Professor James Reason. It is also called the Swiss Cheese model and, simply put, it suggests that events have multiple causes. (Reason’s field was transport accidents but the model can be applied to pretty much anything.) Related are the funnel of causation idea, the concept of a sine qua non (something without which nothing would have happened), and the ideas of triggers and proximate causes.

    Without exploring all the possibles in this, one can speculate that these might have been influential: (1) Irvine leaving the ASIO job, wants to leave a legacy of big ASIO profile, more ASIO powers, vindication of years of warning unreceptive governments or maybe he just thought, ‘eff it, I’ll be out of the place, anyway’, (2) AFP: never seen a policeman who didn’t want more powers, ’nuff said; (3) Colvin explicitly: deputy or acting or whatever, will be not rocking the boat and if he has any misgivings will be keeping them to himself; he has background in counter-terrorism so probably has no misgivings anyway (see also 2. above); (3) Mark Textor, Libs pollster: has probably done focus groups of Anglo-Celtic bogans in Western Sydney who seem comfortable with extreme measures (castration, hanging, Bible classes) against alleged terrorists, especially Muslim ones; (4) Coalition: anything that could wedge Labor is good; (5) Coalition: we need a distraction from the budget and other domestic disasters; (6) Mainstream media: there are a few swarthy guys muttering in Lakemba who are probably up to no good.

    The balance between these and other factors may change frequently but none can be blamed on its own. Together they are powerful. War Precautions Act 1914 anyone? In some lights there is a disturbing likeness between Tony Abbott and Billy Hughes:http://honesthistory.net.au/wp/wellings-ben-commemoration-australia-britain/

  5. The wars in middle exactly is roads to world war 111..It is about a question of Zionist Jews who divided people in two.On side being slaves to them and did evil on behalf of Zionist Israel Jews,another side oppose them.Only some western countries sided with Jews..all over world will unite them selves to defeat Jews and it limited ally.This machine,internate computer exposed too many atrocities by Jews at the past,at its best,especially 9 sept,wtc destruction.The world can,t be patient any more on Jews and on western people and politicians,who sided to Jews and being slaves to Jews and did many atrocities that planned by their master,the Zionist Jews.It is the root of world war 111.It is the last big war before the end of universe.It is not a bout uncivilized people who engage war on civilized people,like Hunington had said..It is because the Jews question.the Zionist Jews atrocities on humanity.It is the last fate of Jews and their western slaves,world super power.Great calamity is waiting them.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      It’s called Global Warming …

  6. FadiAbboud Avatar

    There’s those who instead of condemning evil choose to justify it. However evil comes from evil ideologies and those who defend evil actions are evil as well. It is all relative. God help us.

  7. Reasonableman Avatar
    Reasonableman

    JIHAAD: ANOTHER NAME FOR ISLAMIC TERRORISM
    Usually translated by the Western media as “holy war” is a greatly misunderstood principle in Islaam. There is no term in Arabic which means “holy war”. War is not “holy” in Islaam it is either just or unjust.
    1. The meaning of jihaad is “striving” or “struggle”. It is used in Islaam to refer to a variety of different efforts enjoined upon the believers. Striving to keep God and His Messenger more important than loved ones, wealth and one’s own self is the most basic form of jihaad prescribed on every Muslim. The Prophet said, “No one has truly believed until Allaah and His Messenger becomes more beloved than everything.” Doing the righteous deeds prescribed by God is itself a jihaad. The Prophet was reported to have said, “The best jihaad is the perfect Hajj.”On another occasion, someone asked the Prophet if he should join the jihaad. The Prophet responded by asking him whether his parents were still alive and when he replied that they were, he said, “Make jihaad by serving them.”

    2. Defending Islaam and the Muslim community is a primary aspect of the physical jihaad which involves taking up arms against an enemy. God states in the Qur’aan Permission to fight has been given to those who have been attacked because they are wronged. And indeed, Allaah is Most Powerful.´ (22:39)

    Fight in the cause of Allaah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress the limits. Indeed Allaah does not love transgressors.´ (2:190).

    Muslims are also enjoined to fight against tyranny.
    The Qur’aan states, ³Why shouldn’t you fight in the cause of Allaah and for those oppressed because they are weak. Men, women and children who cry out, Our Lord! Rescue us from this town of oppressors ´ (4:75)

    1. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
      Maborlz Ez-Hari

      Could you please elaborate on what you believe makes one an enemy? Would be handy to know if one is on the hit list.

      1. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        22:40 [quran]
        [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right – only because they say, “Our Lord is Allah .” And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.

        The people who do as above and oppress people.
        As for the hit list comment what makes you think you are on ‘a’ certain hitlist? Is this hitlist imaginary or have you seen it?

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Makes it fairly clear then that ISIS is the enemy of everyone of any religion.

          1. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Birds of a feather murder together.

          2. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            taking into account the fact that the US = the IS that makes even more sense

          3. 5thDrawer Avatar

            So, separate the politics from the religion. We’ll all go with RA. :-))
            By the way, India is #4 exploring Mars for an outlook to the population problems … just mentioning …

          4. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            yir bcos thats the solution to everything right? if i recall correctly mubarak had a secular dictatorship along wid bin ali, ghaddafi, assad and the shah of iran just to name a few. even the mullahs in iran dont have a clue about religion

          5. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yup.

          6. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            i’m so glad we finally agree that the US is the problem 🙂

          7. 5thDrawer Avatar

            So, Educate The People.
            ALL LIFE ON THIS PLANET DEPENDS ON THE SUN. Period.
            (and possibly a few more planets in the Universe …. given the odds.)

          8. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            we wud love to.. but israel bombs the schools in order to kill our kids 🙁

          9. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yah … politics … again.

          10. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            its funny how u ran out of arguments so u post bs like that 🙂 lol

          11. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Its a vicous cycle no argument needed b.s will suffice.

          12. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Where’s the argument? I present a fact, which all should know. Life is ‘by the sun’. Too simple. 50% of the ‘Global Warm’ is human activity.
            More humans=more activity. But the other 50% is the sun. More or less sun creates changes too. Everything depends on it.
            No-one wants the simple. Too bad. Argue over philosophy all you want, then. As if ‘HUMANS’ are the only life here. Oh, yes, we think we’re the ‘keepers’ of the ‘Kingdom’ of Earth …. put here by a God to look after the place … sure.
            Not doing a very good job of it.

          13. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            is it a fact that secularism wud solve the problems of the world or in the ME in particular or is it just a lie u tell urself just to have an excuse to keep killing ppl?

          14. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Let me say only this last … The ME is the only place that didn’t TRY IT !!!!
            Now I have to go kill some life … damn grass keeps growing …. and it is only ‘society’ that wants me to cut it. 😉

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar

            One ‘Happy Note’ ….. although not from El Supremo’s lips …. 😉
            “Our relationship with Saudi Arabia … deserves to be warmer,” Rouhani told a group of senior editors in New York ahead of the annual gathering of world leaders at the U.N. General Assembly. “Saudi Arabia’s positions are getting closer and closer to us.”
            Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Sep-23/271682-irans-rouhani-says-ties-with-saudis-deserve-to-be-warmer.ashx#ixzz3E9CO58zj

          16. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            i’m not sure what u mean by “try it” but i assume u r talking about secularism? at the risk of repeating myself: morocco, algeria, tunisia, libya, egypt, syria, jordan, lebanon and iraq r all secular states. what do these states have in common other than being secular? the right answer is that the US destroyed them all.

          17. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You are telling me that in ALL those countries, the ‘Common Law’ was Secular?
            Is Secular?
            That the USA made it ‘Non-Secular’?
            That ”The West’ FORCED all that ‘Religious Law’ onto the poor peoples??
            That the children, women and men are all treated equally as humans under a law that only relates to the good-running of a state for the good of them all?
            (or even that if they think it’s wrong can go stand in a street and say what they don’t like about it? … although that’s a ‘freedom of speech’ thing … see ‘Speakers Corner’ for info …)
            Well, you see I must disagree now. But I’d be happy if you show me pictures and laws of any time in the wonderful past that prove their ‘Secularity’.
            Otherwise, I must say, go find a dictionary to know the meaning of a word.

          18. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            Yes i tell u that these countries r seculars since they do not base their laws on any religion.
            in every single of those countries the west installed secular dictators that didnt treat children, women and men equally as humans. When the US install such dictators no one is allowed to stand in a street and say what they like.
            funny how it turned out that u need a dictionary more than i do but on the second thought even a dictionary wudnt fix ur problem.
            was mubarak an islamist? were ghaddafi, bin ali, saddam, the shah all islamists? or were they western backed dictators?

          19. 5thDrawer Avatar

            My ONLY problem is age, and the idiots I’m surrounded by.
            (Got enough of them here too …)
            But hey … ‘the west’ freed up Libya for all those secular folks. Nice, eh?
            And, you’re welcome to it.

          20. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            if u ever feel like u r surrounded by nothing else but idiots its probably bcos u urself r the idiot of the crowd much like the west that thinks everybody is wrong but themselves 🙂
            the west freed up libya only to start a civil war there much worse than the one in syria. thank u for that btw

          21. 5thDrawer Avatar

            And for anyone else who thinks no-one else ever invented anything ….
            http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29245289

          22. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I can at least find the definition of a word.
            You are still putting words in my mouth too. I didn’t say ALL were idiots. Didn’t say there was nothing but …
            Yet twisting words is a religious favourite isn’t it?
            I usually avoid the idiots I’m surrounded by … once identified.

          23. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            i said: if u ever feel….

          24. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Then I remember the wise words … ‘When in Rome ……”

          25. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            when in the ME do as the middle easterners otherwise take the first drone back home b4 iran shoots it down! wise words indeed 😉

          26. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yah. I have. Minced around looking ‘good’. Followed the ‘rules’. Ate the food at the right times … didn’t go where I wasn’t wanted.
            Broke one rule. Didn’t pick up a gun to kill someone who didn’t look ‘good’.

          27. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            that rule is an american implementation considering that the ME enjoys the lowest crime rates in the entire world.
            but that wasnt even the point, the point is that if u dont like that we dont have democracy (in most cases thats the fault of the US) then the door is always open for u!

          28. 5thDrawer Avatar

            This is not a completely new phenomenon. In the tenth century, for the first time you saw a certain notion of demonizing Islam. At that point, it wasn’t so misplaced from the European point of view, because Islam was an expansionist civilization, and therefore considered…a threat and a menace. The Crusades witnessed the first instance of demonization along religious lines, that is, demonization of Islam itself rather than of Arabs or Turks… Next you notice it in the period when British and later French colonialist encountered Muslim resistance.

            There was the case of the Mahdi, who besieged and killed General Charles George Gordon in 1885 in Khartoum. That particular moment saw a great deal of emphasis on Islamic fanaticism. Colonial battles were never remembered unless a Custer was killed or a Gordon besieged. Millions of muslims may die, but the memories are of Custer and Gordon.

            This third time… in the last 1,400 years that there is this organized attempt to demonize Islam. This time it’s more organized and sustained, because the means have changed. Today there is mass communication.

          29. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Wow .. the NEWEST Me … only one comment … wow again.

          30. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            It changes toujours to Guest :)) bonne nuit

          31. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Well, as many have noted, the Arab Mind needs a despot of one kind or another to keep it under control and ‘happy’. You’re welcome to it all.

          32. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Yes, they need a tough despot or that’s what happens, now the whole planet is bombarding what they had supported financed and trained, Turkey NATO member opened their borders to Khazar Moslems, to massacre Christians. 47 Turkish hostages were released 2 days ago, everybody asked why it costed nothing, today ISIS destroyed the Armenian Genocide Memorial
            Turkey = ISIS
            http://www.armenianweekly.com/2014/09/21/der-zor/

          33. 5thDrawer Avatar

            The poor Armenians will never have the recognition …. sigh …
            And yes, I know Christians in ‘religious’ book-stores in Turkey had their throats slashed … ISIS (and some chechens) just added the extra slices for ‘display’ and ‘Prime-Time’ recognition for their techie adverts.
            Ideologues also ran over the Turks and left the ‘Whirling Dervishes’ heads spinning. THAT is all the fault of Turks. Period.

          34. 5thDrawer Avatar

            It is for Iran, Hezbollah, Assad that the Zionists are at bay, if not Syria, Leabanon, rest of mid east would have gone long ago

          35. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Christians were striving under Saddam, they owned liquors shops, wore no veil, Christians and Moslems went to concerts..they had a Philharmonic Orchestra..just saying.

          36. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            Meanwhile Kurds and Shiites were tortured for being “political opponents”

          37. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Actually Real, I continue to wonder how these people can equate the sale of booze or the wearing of any style of clothing, or any particular ‘lifestyle’, with secularity of law. The concept of laws which apply to ALL doesn’t sink in very well, does it. And ‘secular’ only means without ‘religion’ – no religion warping it to their individual bits of sectarian and tribal styles.
            How one guy can say that Lebanon has or ever HAD a ‘Secular’ government is beyond me. He’s from a different world. Hope he stays there.
            I suppose he think it is ‘Secular’ if only one family makes all the laws – like the Saudis do … And of course, there’s no religion in their laws, is there? They are only a version of despotism the British forced on ‘the people’. Too weird.

          38. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Now it’s much better isn’t it? Iraq, Libya, Syria, are DESTROYED, ultimately creating hordes of foreign Jihads invading Syria from around the Globe, fake Lebanese you only read Jewish post and Ynet opinionated propaganda..

          39. 5thDrawer Avatar

            We could also say: ‘Libya with Islamic ‘freedom’, according to the guy who thinks Lebanon used to be or is secular in law.
            And it wasn’t the Americans who killed Gaddaffi.
            By the way .. try to find 2 pics of the same spot and view for ‘before & after’. It might be more effective.

          40. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            My God ..are you rather TheUSequalsTheIS grandson?, to you live in the woods, Sarkozy, McCain, Ambassador Ford ex Iraq Amb. NATO, France BHL the Prince..did you even follow this? To say US didn’t kill Kaddafi is ridiculous, US didn’t empale him..that’s all

          41. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yah …. kind of ruined the fun of keeping him in a cage for 20 years … shame.
            Oh, wait .. that’s Egyptian ‘show trials’ … guy lives at home, cage for courts.
            I meant ‘parading’ him to courts for 20 years – for the Papararzis . 😉

          42. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            You want same spots? I will bring you “before & after” US liberation & democracy success: Iraq.
            Libya and Syria, US proxies. This picture is LIBYA.

          43. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            just stating what happened. Saddam oppressed various groups based on religion. Gaddafi did horrendous crimes to non Sunnis and girls, whom he would kidnap from villages, shave their bodies completely, rape them, and then have his guards torture them to death in one of his many torture prisons (similar to Saddam’s). Regarding Assad, im not going to bother saying what he did in Lebanon. But in Syria he imprisoned various political opponents whom no one would ever hear or see from again. All to hold a dictatorship from his father’s time. Too bad he still failed. Regarding Jihadists, the rise of Jihad came during US occupation of Iraq, where Al Qaeda was protected and funded by primarily Iran but there were reports of groups using Syria as a safe haven too. I know you will say the U.S. created Al Qaeda, but they didn’t. They funded the mujahideen before it became an Islamic terrorist group known as al Qeada. Iran and co. Funded Al Qaeda while it was an Islamic terrorist group. Just remember that.

          44. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Yes .. yess ..I was talking about the horse that came before the carriage.
            All those demonized demons had more civilization than the caliphate Saudi dictatorship, they beheaded 57 men last week, an old man can marry a child so young she dies during the “rape”…Ooh please stop repeating again all thaat, you accept nothing less than the collective politically right label..I know you, this could last all night.. Bye.

          45. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            And the U.S. is the only real threat to them after 2 years of their existence? Why is the US able to hit them from the shores of Bahrain but Assad and Iran couldn’t do it for years without killing more civilians than terrorists? Five years from now I can see you calling the U.S. out saying Syria was better off with IS. Your mind set is so anti American that you support murderer’s, rapers, and oppressors.

          46. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Idriss-ISIS.. 2 years of existence? Hahah ohh.. stop it Idriss was fighting alongside ISIS Jahbat al Nusra Ahrar el Shams, they still are, many defected to ISIS.
            You are stupid, go learn what, who, how. where, ISIS came from. It was there under other names, i already told you , Moslem Brotherhood. Al Qaeda.
            You are too aggressive, funny how the Zio stalker comes to help you every time we talk, like he’s your compatriot :)) The Real Lebanese ha ha..
            Anti American is stupid again, this is the last time.
            I am not anti American people, they have already enough of their own population against their own Government. Aipac owns Washington Netanyahu said it himself. And “US is Israeli vassal” if you don’t like it that’s not my business.

          47. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            Idriss was the only person fighting IS just last year…..

            ISIS came from Al Qaeda groups, some of which the FSA did cooperate with at certain points. But don’t forget how the Syrian regime backed off the fighting in the east of the country when IS began fighting moderate rebel forces and Al Qaeda. The regime had a mutual relationship. And I find it hilarious how you say IS came from the muslim brotherhood YET YOU SUPPORTED THE BROTHERHOOD WHEN THEY WERE OUSTED IN EGYPT. That shows how your antiamerican feelings really screw with your logic.

          48. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            I supported the MB ?? Stop banging on the cap log like a hysterical woman. MB existed in all Middle East US and EU.. and No, ISIS was Al Qaeda idiot.Now stop it, if we don’t agree we don’t, stop being frustrated.

          49. MaImequer0 Avatar

            lol sweetie, that is funny… and I suppose they were ALL created by mossad eh?

          50. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            You are boring

          51. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            Oh

          52. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You could write that to a few in here.

          53. MaImequer0 Avatar

            Oh my, you, a horse, with not enough stamina to go all night ???
            Not even good at being a daft mare… lol ☻

          54. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Your sister a horse? I have no interest to go all night village idiot, you have enough stamina to stalk almost 3 years now, are you insane? your father is watching.

          55. MaImequer0 Avatar

            lol sweetie…. myself, not being Jewish or Israeli, your drivel means nothing to me… but, it is very funny to let you embarrass yourself endlessly by calling every one that don’t like, a Jew.. and blaming every possible event on ‘mossad’ or Jewish ‘conspiracy’ … so, despite your poor stamina, please ‘keep it up’.. your continued embarrassing of yourself in epic proportion is entertaining !!!☻

          56. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Never said “Jew” i said and will say Zionist, stop saying it’s very funny, that’s what Arik (your IDF friend) always says.
            You are Jewish and Israeli living in Haifa, i don’t care but, lying about it for the audience is cowardly and honourableness. Now go to hell.

          57. MaImequer0 Avatar

            lol, It’s very funny…. you are so blinded by hate, you cannot even consider facts, just make up you own version of reality. Your perverse attitudes even inspire you to support terrorism… YOU are everything that YOU hate.. just a different flavour…. sweetie…☻

          58. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            lemme state 4 u what happened:the US destroyed the following countries either by themselves or by their proxies such as al-qaeda, the IS or some nasty dictators:

            Morocco
            algeria
            tunisia
            libya
            egypt
            jordan
            palestiine
            ksa
            yemen
            oman
            bahrain
            uae
            qatar
            lebanon
            syira
            iraq
            iran
            kuwait
            afghanistan¨
            pakistan
            korea
            vietnam
            the entire south america

          59. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Oh, why not just throw the whole world into your list?
            And we knew what Hillary said before she said it.

          60. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            that wud be more true wudnt it?

          61. 5thDrawer Avatar

            In your mind, it seems.

          62. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            it has nothing to do wid my mind. all u have to do is to add up all the countless times the US has brought “freedom” and “democracy” to all parts of the world

          63. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            He could be your grandson:).

          64. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Oh, this is possible.

          65. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            I will need an explanation for each one.

            Btw South Korea is a prospering nation because the U.S. prevented North Korea from taking over. It has one of the best economies in Asia and has great human rights and liberties. I can go on with many others on the list and I will if you can tell me how the U.S. destroyed them. And btw Al Qaeda was never funded by the U.S. the U.S. funded the mujahideen before they became Al Qaeda. During the U.S. occupation of Iraq Iran and Syria provided safe zones and funding to Al Qaeda, knowing they were an extremist muslim group. Just something for you to choke on. Hope to hear back from you.

          66. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            i have nothing to say to u… hillary says it for me:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqn0bm4E9yw

          67. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            Exactly. They were never an Islamic militia until after the U.S. stopped funding them….

          68. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You buy a beggar a coffee every day for month, and the day you have no change he whacks you with his cane.

          69. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            I think you’re not idiot you’re vicious. Ben Laden and his moudjahadin were fighting the Russians, US or not!
            He didn’t ask the US for support, he was a student from a well to do Saudi family (friends with Bush family), he became a terrorist after revolting against US Military bases were allowed in his country, to launch attacks on other Arab Countries.

          70. The real lebanese Avatar
            The real lebanese

            So my name changed to vicious Lebanese?! Not sure how I feel about that :-/

          71. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Nothing to do with Benny Laden. When i read the list of tortures so horrible to make us emotionally sick, i can’t resist asking if you watched it…:-l
            No reply necessary it’s just a thought.

          72. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            one pic says more than a million words… in this case there r two pics.. lol chukran for sharing

          73. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Used to be stupid ‘Liquor Laws’ here too … more than Quebec had, in fact.
            We got rid of them … BY LAW. With votes.
            (If this ‘booze question’ is anyone’s example of ‘secularity’….)
            Even IF some Christians don’t like it. They have the ability to just say ‘no’ to drinking … no-one forced it on them … too simple for some minds.

          74. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            What’s the Mather with you? blablabla ..always Quebec.. I said that particularly in Iraq and Syria only Christians owned liquor stores, after that owners and clients were killed, hundreds of thousands of Christians were massacred and expelled from Iraq and Syria, they had been living there for 2000yrs without interruption even trough Islam.

            When the West invaded Mesopotamia they created sectarian wars by drawing lines in the sand, helped Wahhabi most extreme Sect conquer Arabia from moderate Hashemit..

            100 years later, ISIS want’s to erase Sikes Picot lines in the sand..
            100 years ago tribes, sects, were living in peace under the Ottoman Empire.. (think oil, now are you going to explode?

          75. MaImequer0 Avatar

            oh yes, those peaceful ottomans.. back then life was just blissful for everyone under ottoman occupation, with all their love, especially for Armenians …. lol sweetie, more historical revisionism. ☻

          76. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Not from the Scotch. 😉
            I assume, then, everyone was happy, prosperous, and peaceful under the Ottoman family. I wouldn’t know … I wasn’t there. And really don’t care a fig.
            It’s a different world – and happily far removed from mine.

            By the way … about Quebec …. again. 😉 It seems most of us can’t tell the difference between a cod or a haddock or … really anything … when it comes to buying a fish – even if it’s whole. Especially in a ‘Fish&Chip-Shop’. Seems even the guy running the store doesn’t know either. He makes an ‘order’ and gets a box of fillets. ONE IN THREE are a cheaper fish. Beware …. you could be paying twice the price it’s worth.

          77. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            so true 🙂 ask any iraqi how it was like b4 the demo-crazy invasion of the US. they will tell u that NO ONE cared about who was sunni, shia, christian or even jew.
            ask any syrian and u will get the same reply.
            when the US decides to bring demo-crazy to the region they arm one group and order them to attack the other groups. then the US arms another group and also tells them to attack the other groups.
            then, when trying to identify the problem they blame religion and when looking for a problem solver they come up wid this crazy idea of secularism while ignoring their own role in this mess.

          78. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            “Trying to identify the problem”..that would be most constructive. They have no such department in the government.. so how can they acknowledge if they don’t identify.

          79. 5thDrawer Avatar

            ‘Striving’ … hmmmm … wonder if that’s what she meant?

          80. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            …were secular..

          81. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            ..keeb killink bbl..:)

          82. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll 🙂 i wish i cud like more than once !!!!!!!!!!! :ppppppp i meant :bbbbbbbbbb

          83. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            You call that .. bolitics ?.. excusez moi.

          84. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            hhhhhhhhh

          85. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Only in the vaunted halls of the UN ….

          86. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Short answer is yes they are criminals who probably have OCD.

            My point Western penologists have admitted that the penal system has failed utterly in reforming and rehabilitating criminals. Petty criminals enter the system and exit as well trained hardened criminals. Society ends up paying for the crimes committed against it by being obliged to provide food, clothing and shelter for criminals.

            so america in a way are doing what islam teaches. REDEMPTION Capital punishment and infront of and with other nations to ensure would be terrorists (criminals) know their fate. Except ofcourse my problem with them doing this is the civillians innocently murdered with not even a single thought except as pawns by the powerplayers.

            This is why without boots on the ground and surgical operations the coalition is just stalling.

          87. 5thDrawer Avatar

            ‘Society’ always had trouble with minds that resist being in it, or part of it.
            We still look for the better answer to those ‘problems’ of the minds.
            I admit I was always a ‘rebel’ … within my society … but I never thought that killing or stealing was the right way to rebel against the conformity needed to keep a society running. Some small ‘illegalities’ of my youth have been changed over the years too … I don’t regret taking part in the changes. But I DID have a ‘vote’ and was free to exercise it. I preferred to keep the religion OUT of the politics of ‘Laws’ of a society – to have it function for the ‘all’.

        2. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
          Maborlz Ez-Hari

          Probably only Justified imagination, I havent seen anything really just curiosity due to recent events.

          1. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            With muslims you have nothing to worry about open up the quran and you will get better knowledge.
            As with terrorists muslims christians or athiests thats another story.

            As for the unfolding events, sources say the boys have not been charged yet, so what do you make of the bashing of muslim women and terrorising of mosques and spraypainting of muslim houses which has unfolded over the past few days?

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Same as Churches and Synagogs … and Convents and Abbys … ALL CRAP.
            Performed by tiny too-young minds warped by propaganda.
            ‘Hey, let’s go kick over some tombstones … that should make the world ‘right’ in OUR way.’ No respect for ANY in that sort of thing.

          3. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Just dont vandalise the distillery….

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Correct. Especially NOT in Scotland. 🙂

          5. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Who are we kidding? The recent events are a concern, bashing muslim woman, terrorising of mosques and spray painting muslim homes is a low and cowardly act but I havent heard of anything like that happening on the other hand a church in Harris park was the target of some morons. I have had a look at the koran great work but its not for me.

          6. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Brother its happening everywhere but the local media don’t show you. If you have facebook log in and im sure you will be shocked, I have to drop off the wife to work and school and also pick her up (not your problem but I need to tell somebody) those morons at the churches are little slaps nothing the nuns can’t handle.
            Yeah im not forcing it upon you, I meant if you needed more insight.
            Anywho stay well any dramas dont call me 🙂

          7. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Speaking of schools … where all the young and impressionable reside …
            A recent Afghan immigrant of 19 – studious and well-liked apparently – was stabbed to death today here by one of the …. Jamaican immigrants? Not sure …. Maybe he wouldn’t move drugs for the guy…. but I wait further reports.

          8. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yes, lets imagine a world WITHOUT MUSLIMS, shall we? Without Muslims you wouldn’t have:
            – Coffee
            – Cameras
            – Experimental Physics
            – Chess
            – Soap
            – Shampoo
            – Perfume/spirits
            – Irrigation
            – Crank-shaft, internal combustion engine, valves, pistons
            – Combination locks
            – Architectural innovation (pointed arch -European Gothic cathedrals adopted this technique as it made the building much stronger, rose windows, dome buildings, round towers, etc.)
            – Surgical instruments
            – Anesthesia
            – Windmill
            – Treatment of Cowpox
            – Fountain pen
            – Numbering system
            – Algebra/Trigonometry
            – Modern Cryptology
            – Crystal glasses
            – Carpets
            – Checks
            – University
            – Optics
            – Toothbrush
            – Hospitals
            – Bathing
            – Quilting
            – Mariner’s Compass
            – Soft drinks
            – Pendulum
            – Braille
            – Cosmetics
            – Plastic surgery
            – Calligraphy
            – Manufacturing of paper and cloth
            It was a Muslim who realized that light ENTERS our eyes, unlike the Greeks who thought we EMITTED rays, and so invented a camera from this discovery.
            It was a Muslim who first tried to FLY in 852, even though it is the Wright Brothers who have taken the credit.
            It was a Muslim by the name of Jabir ibn Hayyan who was known as the founder of modern Chemistry. He transformed alchemy into chemistry. He invented: distillation, purification, oxidation, evaporation, and filtration. He also discovered sulfuric and nitric acid.
            It is a Muslim, by the name of Al-Jazari who is known as the father of robotics.
            It was a Muslim who was the architect for Henry V’s castle.
            It was a Muslim who invented hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes, a technique still used today.
            It was a Muslim who actually discovered inoculation, not Jenner and Pasteur to treat cowpox. The West just brought it over from Turkey
            It was Muslims who contributed much to mathematics like Algebra and Trigonometry, which was imported over to Europe 300 years later to Fibonnaci and the rest.
            It was Muslims who discovered that the Earth was round 500 years before Galileo did.
            The list goes on and on…

          9. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Your a spinner, did you really think I was going to get into all that lol? We wernt even talking about that.
            You need some human company 5th

          10. 5thDrawer Avatar

            That’s for sure …. not much of it coming out of here lately … guess we now have to check ANYTHING said by anybody …. the hackers are on the rise.
            YaLibnan is failing miserably ….
            Too bad it’s the only way they can get a word in, isn’t it? Pretend to be what they are not?

          11. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (The Above not from me ….)
            (And we already did the ‘chess’ bit … which it wasn’t initially … as with EVERYTHING ELSE, IT EVOLVED.)
            By the way, have you seen the cities buried under the Sahara?? You think no-one in those invented anything??

          12. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Lol your such a perfectionist

          13. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Is that embarrassing, i had more reasons to be embarrassed..:)

          14. 5thDrawer Avatar

            What embarrassment ?? No reason I can see.

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar

            1 The story goes that an Arab named Khalid was tending his goats in the Kaffa region of southern Ethiopia, when he noticed his animals became livelier after eating a certain berry. He boiled the berries to make the first coffee. Certainly the first record of the drink is of beans exported from Ethiopia to Yemen where Sufis drank it to stay awake all night to pray on special occasions. By the late 15th century it had arrived in Mecca and Turkey from where it made its way to Venice in 1645. It was brought to England in 1650 by a Turk named Pasqua Rosee who opened the first coffee house in Lombard Street in the City of London. The Arabic qahwa became the Turkish kahve then the Italian caffé and then English coffee.
            2 The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one.
            3 A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe – where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century – and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.
            4 A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn’t. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles’ feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing – concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing. Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.
            5 Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders’ most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed’s Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV.
            6 Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam’s foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today – liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration. As well as discovering sulphuric and nitric acid, he invented the alembic still, giving the world intense rosewater and other perfumes and alcoholic spirits (although drinking them is haram, or forbidden, in Islam). Ibn Hayyan emphasised systematic experimentation and was the founder of modern chemistry.
            7 The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock.
            8 Quilting is a method of sewing or tying two layers of cloth with a layer of insulating material in between. It is not clear whether it was invented in the Muslim world or whether it was imported there from India or China. But it certainly came to the West via the Crusaders. They saw it used by Saracen warriors, who wore straw-filled quilted canvas shirts instead of armour. As well as a form of protection, it proved an effective guard against the chafing of the Crusaders’ metal armour and was an effective form of insulation – so much so that it became a cottage industry back home in colder climates such as Britain and Holland.
            9 The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe’s Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture. It was much stronger than the rounded arch used by the Romans and Normans, thus allowing the building of bigger, higher, more complex and grander buildings. Other borrowings from Muslim genius included ribbed vaulting, rose windows and dome-building techniques. Europe’s castles were also adapted to copy the Islamic world’s – with arrow slits, battlements, a barbican and parapets. Square towers and keeps gave way to more easily defended round ones. Henry V’s castle architect was a Muslim.
            10 Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. His scalpels, bone saws, forceps, fine scissors for eye surgery and many of the 200 instruments he devised are recognisable to a modern surgeon. It was he who discovered that catgut used for internal stitches dissolves away naturally (a discovery he made when his monkey ate his lute strings) and that it can be also used to make medicine capsules. In the 13th century, another Muslim medic named Ibn Nafis described the circulation of the blood, 300 years before William Harvey discovered it. Muslims doctors also invented anaesthetics of opium and alcohol mixes and developed hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes in a technique still used today.
            11 The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. In the vast deserts of Arabia, when the seasonal streams ran dry, the only source of power was the wind which blew steadily from one direction for months. Mills had six or 12 sails covered in fabric or palm leaves. It was 500 years before the first windmill was seen in Europe.
            12 The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it.
            13 The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. It held ink in a reservoir and, as with modern pens, fed ink to the nib by a combination of gravity and capillary action.
            14 The system of numbering in use all round the world is probably Indian in origin but the style of the numerals is Arabic and first appears in print in the work of the Muslim mathematicians al-Khwarizmi and al-Kindi around 825. Algebra was named after al-Khwarizmi’s book, Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, much of whose contents are still in use. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci. Algorithms and much of the theory of trigonometry came from the Muslim world. And Al-Kindi’s discovery of frequency analysis rendered all the codes of the ancient world soluble and created the basis of modern cryptology.
            15 Ali ibn Nafi, known by his nickname of Ziryab (Blackbird) came from Iraq to Cordoba in the 9th century and brought with him the concept of the three-course meal – soup, followed by fish or meat, then fruit and nuts. He also introduced crystal glasses (which had been invented after experiments with rock crystal by Abbas ibn Firnas – see No 4).
            16 Carpets were regarded as part of Paradise by medieval Muslims, thanks to their advanced weaving techniques, new tinctures from Islamic chemistry and highly developed sense of pattern and arabesque which were the basis of Islam’s non-representational art. In contrast, Europe’s floors were distinctly earthly, not to say earthy, until Arabian and Persian carpets were introduced. In England, as Erasmus recorded, floors were “covered in rushes, occasionally renewed, but so imperfectly that the bottom layer is left undisturbed, sometimes for 20 years, harbouring expectoration, vomiting, the leakage of dogs and men, ale droppings, scraps of fish, and other abominations not fit to be mentioned”. Carpets, unsurprisingly, caught on quickly.
            17 The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad.
            18 By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, “is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth”. It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth’s circumference to be 40,253.4km – less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.
            19 Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a “self-moving and combusting egg”, and a torpedo – a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.
            20 Medieval Europe had kitchen and herb gardens, but it was the Arabs who developed the idea of the garden as a place of beauty and meditation. The first royal pleasure gardens in Europe were opened in 11th-century Muslim Spain. Flowers which originated in Muslim gardens include the carnation and the tulip.

          16. 5thDrawer Avatar

            So, now AN IDIOT is faking my ‘ID’ too …. beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing.
            Although the history notes are largely correct.
            The question then remains … Did Egyptians call themselves Egyptians, or Muslims, or ‘Middle Easterners’, or Phonecians, or Jews, or Gentiles, or Africans when they did what humans have done since the supposed ‘invention’ of fire and simply try out different things for themselves … to lighten a load or emulate what they saw in nature?
            HUMAN ACTIVITY. A wonder in itself. But you can’t label it by race or tribe.
            AND SURE NOT By Religion.

          17. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Must be hacking season, it makes one compete to produce better ideas 😉

          18. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Why the Brits forgot the ‘bathes’ installed by the Romans at Bath England, is, I feel, a similar story to what happened to the ‘questing’ of ALL the earlier societies of Mid-East peoples (or societies of Human) … when the ‘uneducated and unenlightened’ take over the place it simply goes to rack and ruin. The ‘Great Leaders’ cannot be said to have had great brains. And around 1400, things began to change in the Muddled East too. Meanwhile, some others took off with the ideas. Smarter. 😉
            And as I’ve said before, All that stuff can be found out because SOME don’t burn their libraries …. (see Tripoli last year …)
            Knowing how to, and being allowed to, build on the ideas of others from the past is progress.

          19. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            sometimes i wonder why u have a hard time understanding and sometimes is most times 😉

          20. 5thDrawer Avatar

            All I can say to you AND the Hacker … who may well be one and the same … is:
            ‘Idiot … ALL the propaganda you can find .. right?? AND WHERE are you finding it to paste in here? Hmmmm ???’
            Not in your ‘One Book’.

          21. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            yir the hacker and i r the same just as the US and the IS r the same

          22. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I have a hard time understand anyone in 2014 who can’t admit it was simply humans doing all the activity to be where they are today. If some ‘societies’ allowed the freedom to explore at different ages of ‘man’, I will admit it was a good thing. I hate beating my shirts clean on a rock in a stream ….

          23. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar
            TheUSequalsTheIS

            in 2014 like in 1953 the US prevents other societies to be free

          24. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I remind you of what you probably consider an ‘Old Song’ and one line… “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose”.
            Well, you should know how we straightened them out in ’53. Us Hippies hit the streets. 🙂
            “Get out of the new life if you can’t lend a hand, ’cause the times, they are a-changing.’ In the USA it took a little longer … But they elected a Kennedy.
            Sure, a few got killed. But in the end our ‘Make Love Not War’ slogan worked … for about 10 years … and society began to change and open up after too many years of ‘war theory’ from around 1914. It WAS a good change.
            (Some in Turkey were trying it lately … doing it for trees didn’t fly.)
            Like the Hippies, they were over-run by ‘rightists’.
            Being a Hippie didn’t mean we let people run all over us either. But after that ‘dust-up’ it was a ‘good feeling’ time … and ALL Society benefitted from it. Pay and Benefits and Good Times. Drive your car. Smile at the neighbour.
            Here we go again … The times they are a-changing.
            Over-population and ‘Big Business’ combined with ‘New Tech’ in the 90’s to begin taking away the jobs. Education has gone to pot. ‘Socialist Thought’ is being ripped at by those who can’t understand how they benefitted from it.
            And ‘The USA’ IS NOT the only one loving ‘Big Business’.
            If you can’t understand the ‘Bottom Line’, you might as well give up now.
            Stupid Religions are just a cover for their Big Businesses.
            Learn the difference between being a ‘social thinker’, or a Communist.
            And ‘Make Love’ With a Condom – for more than one reason.
            WORK AT IT.

          25. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Do you know who that can be?
            At least it’s educational.. not stupid “daft mare, munching carpets 🙂
            I must add it’s not by religion but they were Arabs, Jews travelled along the Arabs on their way to conquer Spain for business opportunities, they were protected by them during 400years until the inquisition, when Arabs left Jews were expelled from Spain. Also in the 800, they translated the Greeks into Latin on which Western civilization was founded, they replaced Roman letter by Arabic numbers we use today, Arabic deep bright pigments colours made their way to Europe from Spain in the Middle ages, it created the Art Renaissance. I don’t know how they came to this decadence today, my opinion is the multiple new Sects, the crazy Sects.

          26. 5thDrawer Avatar

            That’s what I said.
            (you and the purple from shell-fish leavings … geezzz ..)
            So, what ‘plant’ did North American imports from Mongolia use to make ‘purple’? Or didn’t they care?

      2. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        Exactly right. These words pronounced 1400 years ago are so open to interpretation, and today are being interpreted in the worse possible manner. So yeah, about time Muslims put their interpretations in order…

        1. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
          Maborlz Ez-Hari

          There is only one way to interpret that message mekanseh, and the extremists are adhearing to thier beliefs. Im afraid to say, but moderates are apostates in the eyes of true believers of Islam. The message is simple, its exactly the opposite of what Christ taught us, its the absolute opposite of peace it is the most antichrist group on earth. Just look at the events around the world and its not hard to be critical of this following. I feel for the followers of this faith they have been led into this scandal and only God can save them.

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I think the ‘coalition’ has the right idea … they are beyond saving.

          2. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            What is the right idea 5th?

          3. 5thDrawer Avatar

            E – limination. 😉 (Illumination seems impossible.)

          4. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Your leading me down dead ends, I don’t mean to jump the gun.
            I am trying to clarify your intent seeing that was your response to marborlz comment (which was based on his interpretation of religion).

            In your own words ” without mixing politic with religion”
            Who do you believe the coalition is E-liminating?

          5. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I DO leave the religion out – which seems sensible since MANY ‘religionists’ as well as politicians of various countries have decried the things they are doing to people of ‘all faiths’, in that glorious ‘rush’ to establish themselves as a ‘state’ that no-one (evidently) wants to live in, except what appears to be ‘the brain-dead’ of a couple of generations – it has come to a sodden choice that no-one really wanted to make. Attack the bastards very heavily.
            There IS no Dialogue available. We even have this bit from Jordan today …..
            ———-
            “Dr Usama Hasan at the Quillam Foundation told BBC News that Abu Qatada could be used against Islamic State (IS) by the Jordanian government. “But he is certainly no friend of the Jordanian government,” he added.
            Writings have recently appeared online in the radical cleric’s name – seemingly smuggled out from his prison cell – which denounced IS militants. In one letter, the author calls the leaders of IS “the dogs of hellfire”.
            Earlier this month Abu Qatada condemned the murder of two Western journalists, saying reporters were “messengers of the truth” and that killing them contradicted Islamic teachings.”
            http://www.bbc.com/news/world-29340656
            ———-
            Now, if THAT guy says that, you may as well throw in the ‘peace towel’ and just have at it. There WILL be a ‘winner’. Hopefully most will begin to understand the futility of wars … and the grief it brings to 60 million people.

          6. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Just checking your still on the ‘right’ team 5th :-).
            If you reread the biased bs that maborlz wrote and then read your comment, a reader would assume you meant something else.

            for the record, the state the middle east is in now leaves no room for a certain ‘group’ to achieve any scientific discoveries except for those with darn rich who can afford an education. So it really would be bad judgment to judge a whole religion whilst in bad form.

            Abu qatada and sheikh al maqdisi are the only ‘scholars’ of jihad in their respected fields who have denounced ISIS and labeled them as dogs of the hellfire and still be respected by the ISIS dogs of hellfire. It would definately be useful to have them on the right team.

          7. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Sorry Real, to be late with a reply. I was texting with the Lebanese I care most for, and who are going down and down with the country. The Tripoli situations are simply disgusting. But it’s a reflection of the wider problems … and for me the plight of that six is the same as the 60 million. They are internal refugees.
            The ‘Great Leaders’ of their time have dragged them to death.
            ———
            Dispassionately ….. the ‘philosophy’ is all wrong. It doesn’t work. And hating the USA all the time isn’t going to give any answers to anyone. The USA is as diverse a country as anyone could find – and the ‘cure’ for it’s own ills while it ‘imagines’ it can help the rest of the world drag itself into the 22nd century, are hard tasks too.
            The Blockheads say ‘the west’ too …..
            Can they NOT see how diverse THAT is with humanity?? And it’s not without the problems of humanity either. But generally speaking it tries as hard as possible to make a life liveable for those within those ‘realms’. It is ‘reaching out’ … continues to do so … even to those who don’t want to be part of it.
            The ‘right team’? Only humanity.

          8. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            Dear Drawer you speak of US government as (Humanity)
            “But generally speaking it tries “as hard as possible to make a life ‘liveable’ (you made a mistake) livable for those within those ‘realms’. It is ‘reaching out’..continues to do so.. even to those who don’t want to be part of it. (only humanity is the right team).
            It’s like you’re talking about Jesus Christ..
            Governments are not human they have no souls they are corrupted, in US not the brightest are elected those with the richest backers are..(ex.Mad insane McCain). Aipac owns Washington, if you want to enter US Congress you have to sign allegiance to Israel. Politicians are not there to promote peace. Human diversity are but they have no power..it’s a vicious circle.. power corrupts.
            God decides (or the laws of the Universe), that’s why they glean what they sow.. for now it’s ISIS.

          9. 5thDrawer Avatar

            hehehe .. Yes Hind. We know nothing great ever came out of a committee.
            [*see ‘hadiths’ …. volumes of them 😉 ]
            But I think it was a basic idea. What the committee is formed to study.
            [ almost godly … hmmm ]
            And a basic premise is often not a bad thing in itself … it’s only how it gets twisted by the committee that can put it slightly off kilter.
            So, now you have many ‘Sub-committees’ … some function, some don’t, some oppose others. (Left hand / right hand thingie )
            [ hmmm .. definitely ‘religious/sectarian’ sounding ..]
            I hardly think the US government is the most corrupted in the world …

            (music) .. ‘If you can’t please everyone, well, you got to please yourself.’

          10. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Hind. Here’s a good committee OF ONE. They are not ALL bad. 😉
            http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29365988

          11. Comtessa di Alba Avatar
            Comtessa di Alba

            ??…

          12. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Illumination through Sun god Ra/lucifer and establishment of nwo via zionists all through out the world and the formation of one world government and one religion, luciferism and one currency and one army and all countries and its people under it. Those who won’t will face Elimination
            Thats the present and will be the future

          13. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (That wasn’t from me … probably some Luciferian …)

          14. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            I didnt think so.

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I don’t talk like that, Marbolz … errr … Maborlz … 😉

          16. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Well you definitely dont write like that, 5th.

          17. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            You sound like a broken record narrating to yalibnan users what your own interpretation of the quran is.
            Just yesterday you called it a great book just not for you. I cannot believe how blind you are not realising how contradicting you are swinging that double edge sword screaming ‘EXTREMISTS’

            Can you kindly answer the following questions so I know exactly which jesus you believe in?

            1.have you read the bible?
            2. Which bible the old or the new?
            3. Did jesus pray clasping his hands and on his knees like modern christians or did he fall flat on his hands and face and pray the same way the prophets peace be upon them prayed and the same way mohommed peace be upon him prayed?
            4.was jesus human or god?
            5.where is jesus now?
            6. Did jesus write the bible?

          18. Anti ISIS Avatar

            I can answer all the above bro, however lets see what Mab has to say for himself. Because of a few, we are all being persecuted.

          19. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            I would like him to answer because im sick of his accusations with no real informative argument. There are 2 different main groups of christians, catholics and protestants the main group being catholics think the pope is infalliable whilst the protestants reject the monarchy.
            The movement happened in the 15th century after malcom luther decided to go for a spiritual journey to the vatican and witnessed a fat old man sitting on a chair with a massive GOLDEN hat whichhad to be held by strings connected to the ceiling (thats how heavy it was that the pope couldn’t even and still cant mantain it on his head)

            As for muslims being persecuted it’s been since day one “al islam ghareeban sa ya3oodu ghareeban fa tooba li ghooraba” l

          20. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Is that how you justify your beliefs, by resorting to a story about a hat? You don’t need to concern yourself with the Catholics or the Protestants, and my accusations are derived from what common sense would conclude about the message Islam is spreading. Show me a message of peace, don’t say peace show me. Don’t tell me your fasting, just fast and keep it between you and God, don’t tell me about people of the book show me tolerance for others, don’t tell me what you invented for humanity a thousand years ago show me how you treat humanity today, who do you really think you represent with your ways, God? That’s my opinion reasonable don’t hate me for it, it’s how I see it.

          21. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Justifying my belief is one thing. What martin luther narrates is another.
            It was the first time he seen the pope ONE of the first thing he seen and percieved as false.

            If you upset i called him fat then I apolagise, there are plenty of fat people in the world. Some are bor fat some are ill yet some just are pathetic I aint judging 🙂

          22. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Call him what you like it reflects on you not me. And now your a lutheran moslem? Lol.

          23. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Yeah I understand its easier for you to label someone and throw accusations eg. Lutherin muslim, rather than use your brain to actually understand something.

            It truly reflects your personality.

          24. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Dont have a sook it was a joke, you acting like some girls do. Toughen up buttercup.

          25. 5thDrawer Avatar

            When they said : ‘Heavy is the head that wears the golden crown.”, they named the wrong part. It was most often the stomach :-))
            Henry IV, Shakespeare : “Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown” is the original …. people love to make up their own versions, don’t they??
            (translation … the King doesn’t sleep well .. thought i should stick it in ..)
            And as for the ‘heavies’ …
            “Crowns have always been the sign of authority and Kingship. Charlemagne, whom historians say should deserve to be called “great” above all others, wore an octagonal crown. Each of the eight sides was a plaque of gold, and each plaque was studded with emeralds, sapphires, and pearls. The cost was the ‘price of a king’s ransom’. Richard the Lion Heart had a crown so heavy that two earls had to stand, one on either side, to hold his head. The crown that Queen Elizabeth wears is worth over $20 million. Edward II once owned nine crowns, something of a record.”

            And, if you want some religiosity about crowns …. a Sermon. (interpretation)
            http://nnedaog.org/sermons/XMAS002.HTM

          26. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Thats alot of money,id hate to have her majesty as a friend, because then I would to have to buy her gifts she would do my pocket in.

          27. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Women always accept flowers. 😉

          28. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            I’m not persecuting you Anti, there are extremist out there killing moderates and calling them kafirs. I’m not making it up it’s there for the world to see. So is there multiple messages or different levels of Islam? When you see them debating it seems as though the extremists have all the authority, and the moderates get abused for their weakness and not having the zeal of the extremists. Figure it out for me, because i can’t.

          29. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Never mind me answering the questions the answers are too many and too detailed to convey on this blog. I’m just generalising and when I said a great book about the Koran it was not a form of approval about the message it conveys. It’s a great book for the purpose it was intended for and you can’t deny its success on the people who follow it. Again I’m just generalising, I know not all Moslems are monsters but the message and examples being expressed by Moslems especially in the Middle East is one that is not pleasant and is only creating a negative view of that faith. Now I’ll continue, not all Christians are angels far from it, but put simply the message the Bible portrays is the complete opposite to that of the Koran, So the bible is for me. I’m not going to sit here and try convince you who is right or wrong, God gave every one a heart and a brain but what’s missing from some people out there is the grace to know and accept the truth. I hope I wasn’t offending you in what I write, but it’s impossible not to offend some one on a topic with differing views. Your truths are in conflict with my views and vice versa, but it’s no reason to start an argument or a war or a jihad etc.

          30. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Man saying there is only one true form of islam and its the way the extremists interpret the quran is a big claim.
            For arguments sake lets call it generalising, it doesn’t upset me even I generalise for a laugh.
            No hard feelings, if you can’t answer the questions thats fine, (I was hoping you would)
            Feel free to ask me whatever you like about islam or even why we believe different to what you believe.(if your ever in the mood)

          31. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            Ok so there is more than one true form of Islam? I’m not here to get into detailed debates about religion. Looking at them from the surface is enough for me.

          32. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            You make it clear that you do not want to get into detailed debates so I will still answer your questions in short and hopefully give you (with evidence) the surface you are supposed to be looking at.
            Q.Is there more than one true form of islam?
            A.no, there is only one true form of islam. The quran, the teachings and sayings of the prophet muhammed peace be upon him. (Which were ofcourse recorded DURING peace be upon him’s lifetime and BY his family and companions)

          33. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Thankyou.
            I also like the PDFS on islamiconlineuniversity.com

          34. 5thDrawer Avatar

            One note: – Only one Bible. Old and New ‘Testaments’ in it.
            Testaments are student’s notes from a lecturer or demonstration … not a writer. The ‘Old’ more from lectures … the ‘New’ from the Marturs. 😉

          35. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            So the new bible is minus the apocrypha (which marturs believe is compramised) while the old is believed to have the apocrypha.
            I don’t know man logic says thats 2 different things.
            Sorry but wait the founder of logic aristotle spoke of ‘one’ Superpower aka GOD.
            Not 1 in three or 3 in 1 with 2 books.

          36. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You should read the Fairy Tales in the Nag Hammadi … hehehehehe

          37. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
            Maborlz Ez-Hari

            You want to enter conversations about logic? Do your self a favour and dont go there.

          38. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Upon this first, and in one sense this sole, rule of reason, that in order to learn you must desire to learn, and in so desiring NOT to be satisfied with what you already incline to think, there follows one corollary which itself deserves to be inscribed upon every wall of the city of philosophy: Do not block the way of enquiry.

            first rule of logic

      3. 5thDrawer Avatar

        ISIS laid out their version well enough … anyone who is not THEM.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      YAY POLAND. :-)))
      ‘Gee Dad, what are they doing?’
      “It’s what humans call Making Love, my dear.’
      ‘Oh. Isn’t he hurting her?’
      ‘She looks like she’s smiling, to me … but it’s hard to tell with donkeys.’

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