U.S. Iraq air raids help Kurds, Shi’ites at expense of Sunnis


us airstrikes on isis iraqA small group of people pick through putrefying human remains laid out on plastic sheets by the side of a road in northern Iraq, searching for any trace of missing friends and relatives.

Some had brought spades to help dig up the mass grave near Suleiman Beg after the town was retaken from Sunni Islamic State militants who held the area until last week.

“They (Islamic State) slaughtered him simply because he was Shi’ite,” said Jomaa Jabratollah, hauling the remnants of his friend, a truck driver, into a coffin, having identified him from the lighter in his breast pocket. “We must take revenge”.

Helped by the United States and Iran, Kurdish forces and Shi’ite militia are finally beating back Islamic State militants who overran most Sunni Arab areas in northern and centralIraq nearly three months ago.

But the aftermath illustrates the unintended consequences of the U.S. air campaign against Islamic State.

Kurdish and Shi’ite fighters have regained ground, but Sunni Muslims who fled the violence are being prevented from returning home and some have had their houses pillaged and torched.

Rather than help keep the nation together, the air strikes risk being used by different factions for their own advantage in Iraq’s sectarian and ethnic conflicts.

The fallout also risks worsening grievances that helped Islamic State find support amongst Iraq’s Sunnis, and allows the militant group to portray the U.S. strikes as targeting their minority sect. That may make it more difficult to bring Sunnis on side and convince them to fight the militants.


Suleiman Berg- Iraq mapThe unlikely coalition of Kurdish peshmerga fighters, Shi’ite militias and the U.S. air force won a major victory when it broke a siege of the Shi’ite Turkman town of Amerli last week and drove Islamic State from 25 nearby Sunni towns and villages.

But the aftermath is far from what the Americans envisioned. Smoke now rises from those Sunni villages, where some houses have been torched by Shi’ite militia. Others are abandoned, the walls daubed with sectarian slogans.

“There is no way back for them: we will raze their homes to the ground,” said Abu Abdullah, a commander of the Shi’ite Kataib Hizbollah militia in Amerli.

The area is now held by Kurdish peshmerga and Shi’ite militia, who have become the most powerful forces on the ground, rather than the Iraqi army, whose northern divisions collapsed this summer when Islamic State attacked.

By the time IS was expelled from around Amerli, many Sunni civilians had fled, fearing for their lives. They have few places to go and are too frightened to return.

“If a regular army were holding the area we could return, but as long as the militias are there we cannot,” said a 30-year-old displaced Sunni resident of one village near Amerli, who asked to remain unnamed. “They would slaughter us on the spot.”

He admitted some villagers had supported IS, but said it was only one or two for every 70 to 80 households, and that the rest were innocent civilians who were too scared to stand against the militants or had nowhere else to go.

Sunni Turkman al-Muradli and his family left Suleiman Beg the day after it fell to Islamic State in June and moved to a Kurdish-controlled town nearby. A month later, their 21-year-old son was abducted.

The next time they saw him was in a video on the internet captioned “arrest of an Islamic State member”, which appears to show their son being beheaded by Shi’ite militia fighters.

His weeping mother insisted he was an innocent student and said her son’s killers had phoned her demanding $2,000 to return the corpse without a head, which the caller claimed to have taken to Baghdad as a trophy.

“We cannot return. Even if the Shi’ite army and militia withdraw, Islamic State will come back and the same will happen all over again,” said the mother.

The mayor of Tuz Khurmato confirmed the account and said at least four other Sunnis had been abducted in the area in recent weeks, presumably by Shi’ite militia. At least one other video has circulated online of Shi’ite militiamen brandishing the heads of alleged Islamic State fighters.

Pictures online, also allegedly from Amerli, show two militia fighters posing with a pair of charred corpses.

A 42-year-old Shi’ite volunteer said it would eventually be safe for Sunnis to return and that no more than ten houses of known Islamic State members had been deliberately destroyed.

“The Sunnis will come back to their villages but not now: after a few months,” he said.

“Since there is no confidence between Sunni and Shi’ite any more, they need guarantees from a third party, maybe the Kurds, then we can live peacefully together again, as we were.”


Sunni Arabs are also feeling a backlash in villages where they used to live alongside Kurds, who accuse them of collaborating with Islamic State.

Kurds, who are also mostly Sunni but identify first and foremost with their ethnicity, have taken back at least 127 villages since the start of the U.S. air campaign, some of which were home to Arabs too.

In one such village, returning Kurds have sprayed over the word “apostate” on the walls of houses and written “Kurdish home” instead. Arab households remain empty.

Kurds in the Makhmour area, from which IS was pushed out in August, say they no longer trust Arabs enough to live with them.

“All my neighbors were Arabs. Now most of them are with Islamic State,” said Abdul Rahman Ahmed Abdullah, a member of the Kurdish security services from the village of Baqirta, south of Arbil. “We cannot be mixed together. The only solution is for them to leave.”


During the operation to reach Amerli, Kurds gave passage to Shi’ite militia through territory they control and allowed them to use their bases, where they fired artillery at IS positions side by side in an unusual show of solidarity.

“Amerli united Iraqis,” said Taleb Jaafar Mohammed, a Shi’ite Turkman teacher, holding a pistol in one hand and a string of prayer beads in the other.

But even during the operation, there were cracks in the coalition: Shi’ite militia and Kurdish forces fought under their own banners and the least visible flag was that of Iraq.

Now that the common enemy has been pushed back, the alliance is unraveling. Kataib Hezbollah, which controls access to Amerli, is denying Kurds entry to the town and one peshmerga commander described the militia as the “Shi’ite IS”.

The tensions reflect a struggle for territory which the Shi’ite-led government in Baghdad claims, but the Kurds want as part of their autonomous region in the north of the country.

“This land is ours: they are an occupying force,” said Sirwan, a Kurdish fighter, when asked about the Shi’ite militia presence. “There will be bigger problems than Islamic State in this area.”




298 responses to “U.S. Iraq air raids help Kurds, Shi’ites at expense of Sunnis”

  1. $89733098 Avatar

    “Sunni Turkman al-Muradli and his family left Suleiman Beg the day after it fell to Islamic State in June and moved to a Kurdish-controlled town nearby. A month later, their 21-year-old son was abducted.

    The next time they saw him was in a video on the internet captioned “arrest of an Islamic State member”, which appears to show their son being beheaded by Shi’ite militia fighters.”

    But yet farqed up and daft mare will of course either deny or justify their actions.

    1. Anti ISIS Avatar

      Man, where do you get this BS. Lol. Get it through that thick head of yours, the beheaders are isis and isis are Suuni. It’s funny how everybody knows this except and your moron friends.
      Now go and takebeer.

      1. $89733098 Avatar

        Lol thank u for doing what I said u would. I obviously have u very well trained. Now play dead!

        Btw u definitely have no shame, coming back today after I wiped ur toilet floor with u my dear Ali freak.

      2. $89733098 Avatar

        “Man, where do you get this BS. ”

        Read the article Einstein.

      3. Hind Abyad Avatar

        Is IS HQ in Baghdad?
        “His weeping mother insisted he was an innocent student and said her son’s killers had phoned her demanding $2,000 to return the corpse without a head, which the caller claimed to have taken to Baghdad as a trophy.”

        1. $89733098 Avatar

          Comtessa even u can see the truth after u previously said u knew nothing about Iraq but this sectarian pig called farqed up still can’t see. 😉

          1. Hind Abyad Avatar

            It’s no use denying facts just because you don’t like someone or some group.

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (barabie answers barabie …. conversation with a split personality ??)
            (still … great boobs …)

          3. $89733098 Avatar

            U think u r smart but in fact u r dead wrong. Lmfao this is funny.

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Well, Mal-Merc then. Certainly not Comtessa/Hind.

          5. MaImequer0 Avatar

            Good grief, you don’t know if you’re coming or going. Word to the wise, one is white, one is yellow.

          6. Countessa Al Abyad Avatar
            Countessa Al Abyad

            HaHa..Malaria “likes” Comtessa di Alba.
            Tell that to your Zionists group: It’s no use denying Facts.

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Apparently, ‘Shrunken Heads’ can still be purchased in some places … although it’s considered a sort of ‘Black Market’ item. 😉
          (also a bit of a ‘lost art’ these days)
          (the best ones retained much of the original character)
          (Mummification – another lost art art basically because it became too expensive – has nevertheless been researched well, just for the knowledge, of course.)
          This one – A ‘trophy’ that will not last long except as another brainless skull.

      4. You are so right those inhumane evil Isis are alawites, shias, khawarijis, and Zionists. Why you and your dear moron friends try so hard to keep it as a secret when its not???:)))
        Ya Ali (ra) Ya Hussein (ra) Ya Abd-ibn al-Saba Ya Abu lu lu Ya Ayatoilets Ya Khawarijis Ya Khomeini (la) Ya Asshead Ya Fatso Ya Zionists Ya Dajjal/Mahdi :)))

    2. Evil is evil. Some is done in retaliation, and some is done on purpose. But the worst evil today is sectarianism- and which you certainly are guilty of- and which has resulted in all these barbarian and inhuman acts, and is a sure path to hell.

      1. $89733098 Avatar

        Yes yes my dear hypocrite

        1. I based my opinion based on your posts. What did you base your insult on?

          “False judgment is the father of all evil”.
          Jesus of Nazareth

          1. $89733098 Avatar

            I based my opinion on the hypocrisy in ur posts.
            Oh I forgot; “False judgment is the father of all evil”.
            Jesus of Nazareth

          2. Actually, I use my words very carefully, and I based my judgment after reading dozens of your posts. You attack an entire sect without basis, and no, I am not a Shia.

  2. At past,all historians know the west are wolves,especially America and will remain as that animal for long period of times..Even so,many its civilians and scholars are good people. Arabs still believe in them.Its will bite you again.Who believe in wolves are weird.Arabs are fully ignorant.New world order created in america.They are working for the objective.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      Even wolves care well for their young, Zabada.

      1. sorry… I must stick on the truth.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Which you can probably find recorded and well-written about 70 yrs later.

          1. far than that,to know the whole story of human being,leaders,nations and empires,religion and ect.

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Oh Yes .. and ‘WE’ admit that ALL women ran from Russian ‘soldiers’.
            That horde of peasants left over from Zsarist days didn’t get a much better education under Stalin – even if they were all ‘good church folks’.
            But Zabada …
            Haven’t females ALWAYS been thought of as ‘Spoils of War’. ?? A Prize worth taking … especially if you can’t find any gold??
            It IS a ‘lingering thought’, even in societies which decry the rape.
            Personally, I see no real value in chopping their heads off after …..
            And, they might be able to cook …

            (even a barabie might be ok on the barbie …. ;-))) Ham-burgers …:-))))))) )

          3. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            My first real laugh today, thanks 5th.

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You’re welcome … I float in and out …

          5. Barrel bombs doing better in killing.But people lack of consideration.It,s killing hundred,even thousand in a minute instead of one head.Even so,i m not head hunters.

          6. 5thDrawer Avatar

            True enough … when statisticians run the numbers, and despots wish the bigger numbers for the fear-factors, then bigger blasts increase production. And accountants surely noted the efficiency of the barrel-drop – or even the car-park, which can use cheaper explosives because they are bigger.
            ISIS found the MOST EFFICIENT moment simply by digging a huge hole, putting 500 females (Yazidi or other) in it, then putting the dirt back on top. This was a huge saving over spraying bullets from machine guns.
            But these methods don’t always record well on the cell-cams.
            The ‘head chop’ – recorded for the YouTube shows – was mostly an ‘advertising’ gambit, to bring together the already mentally derranged of the world. People of similar depravity-enjoyment ‘gathered’.
            After all, some find it enervating or interesting, while others are repulsed – and the big overly-verbal lead-up to it (with appropriate signage and chants in commercial-break-moments) simply add to the suspense and anticipation.
            Similar to the ‘phone-in-a-vote’ contests – everyone has to wait and wait to finally see a head being lofted in supposed ‘victory’ from a defenceless body.
            But the odds on ever having it happen to YOU the individual are very very small. (Like bear and shark attacks, fairly rare but sensational.)
            You would have to travel thousands of miles to even be in the ‘live audience’.
            We can note, however, that as ‘shows’ increase in popularity, larger studios and more elaborate lighting, cameras, and settings are acquired for ‘the herd’.
            (A one-time cost factor – defrayed by the larger audience input.)

          7. $89733098 Avatar

            Between farqed up wanting to chop my head off, daft mare wanting me to play on train lines and u wanting too BBQ me what is left of me?

          8. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Don’t worry, there is a lot of meat on a pig. You should be fine.

          9. $89733098 Avatar

            I know I will be fine but that pig ur wife obviously won’t be. Ali take beer

          10. MaImequer0 Avatar

            Yes, and you’d be just the person to know eh? A real expert on this topic, not like all the others topics normally discussed here…. Why’d you change your name? It’s OK, but you should really consider ‘DM2’, it’s quite fitting (literally).

          11. $89733098 Avatar

            Lol at dm2.

          12. Anti ISIS Avatar

            How nice, you came to her rescue. Keep at it, she’ll give it up.

          13. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I was actually thinking of you as the ‘naked chef’ ….
            But, if you can’t cook … or always burn ‘the meat’ …. well … 😉

          14. At the past Russian Armies are gang rape,Even Tolstoy told that in his books..novel..Hj.Murat.Russia is having half civilization.

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar

            As I said … peasants. They were not allowed the Education of the Tsar & ‘Super-Crust’ French-speaking elite families of the time. Not even that of the ‘White-Russian’ politicos of a smaller upper-class. WHICH factor allowed the Red Russians to trample over the elected Whites soon after they came to power – the HERD of peasants was mobilized by indoctrination – ALL FOR the ‘working man’ – and an uneducated but well-motivated army was unleashed.
            They were then taught all the ‘right lines’ – by the prophets, of Communism.
            Those who said the wrong lines suffered rape, pillage, and burn – normal uneducated peasant stuff. (See Ukraine 2014)

    2. Animals are better than some of these barbarians ARABs using GOD they made up to take heads and plant a flag. These are like the Mexican drug lords who kill over 50,000 people for money and power. America tells u to kill, would you. This is why the Crusades came to the ME, what is happening today is only 5% of what Islam did to minority 1000 years ago. They will kill the minorties and than kill each other, brother and sister and mother and father because the God these animals follow does not teach about Love.

      1. $89733098 Avatar

        The racist pig master09 is squealing again.

        1. Have u found your level or are you still digging to crak the surface. Lol

          1. $89733098 Avatar

            No matter how low I go I would still b higher than a racist pig like u

          2. Dreamers will be dreamers. Hate is what? You show nothing but, lol .
            Jesus loves everyone even you, so yes I feel very sorry for all that hate you carry inside you. I will pray for you now. I will dig that hole to get you out.
            The END.

          3. Anti ISIS Avatar

            You will need a massive shovel master. Lol. Everything you said about Jesus (pbuh) is 100% correct.

          4. $89733098 Avatar

            It’s hilarious watching u seek anyone u can to support u coz u aren’t man enough or smart enough to take me on on ur own.

            Hail Ali. Do u think Ali takes beer?

          5. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (probably the Dark Ale … it has more nutritional elements)
            (my Dad made his own … great flavour, and around 12% alcohol … very economic … one bottle was usually enough to quiet the sounds of the world)

          6. Don’t disrespect or question the intelligence of the Infallibles or their associates and supportes as no one else could have done a better divine job in creating hatred, bigotry, chaos, evils, wars, genocides, sectarian bloodsheds, confusions, misunderstandings, etc.!?

          7. 5thDrawer Avatar

            AND, they allow it all to be recorded and printed and discussed openly.
            And generally, do not not burn the Libraries …. (see Tripoli …)
            Divinity … Sucks.

          8. $89733098 Avatar

            Lol the racist is squealing about hate. Hahaha

          9. Reasonableman Avatar

            Who did jesus pray to?

            Did he clasp his hands and get on his knees or did he fall on his hands and face and pray to god as ibrahim and noah and joseph and muhammad peace be upon them did?

            Where in the kingsford smith bible does it mention jesus peace be upon him will answer your prayers?

            Are you catholic or protestant?

            have you read the bible?

          10. Unfortunately, the real teachings of Jesus (pbuh) have been long gone. Today’s Christianity or its beliefs are not the one which were actually brought/preached by him at the command of God, only if the followers knew!!!
            They have been/are busy with innovations, distortions, manipulations, hate, branding, arrogance, ignorance, racism, un-Godly actions, etc. in the name of freedom/lust/desires/new age when in reality they have been/are appeasing and following Satan and not God or his sent commands through his messengers!!!

            Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was prophesied in the Holy Bible and Torah as God’s last messenger to come!!!
            Prophet Muhammad’s (pbuh) prophetic Name, “Ahmed”, was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls!!!

            Interesting how the true teachings and God’s commands got changed since Jesus (pbuh) was raised bodily to heaven by God, a belief purported to be found in the Gospel of Basilides. For instance Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, including that of the Trinity. He layed the groundwork when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a “divine Son.” After all, a Son does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God’s revelations to man? In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church people who put the matter together.
            Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word “Trinity” when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.

            Why such hate, falsehoods, and double standards when Jews, Christians, and Muslims are from the same Family Tree of Abrahamic Faiths/Religions???

          11. Reasonableman Avatar

            Well your full of information, good work.
            It was not until the gathering of bishops in nicea that the trinity gained traction, whoever opposed the trinity would be hunted down and killed.

            Christians these days try to trick you and explain the trinity as “you can be a father a son and a brother” all in one. So what happens if either one dies?? Hmmm they all die.

            Very illogical and most christians(except born agains) have never read the bible and are advised against it because it will strike doubt in there hearts.

          12. True, wish and hope our dear Christian cousins and brothers in Abrahamic Faith come back to the real path!

            They need to understand that Islam is similar to Christianity in many ways and was sent by the same God!

            – There is only one God. He is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe.

            – God sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, John the Baptist, Jesus, etc.

            – People should follow the Ten Commandments and the moral teachings of the prophets.

            – Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a virgin; therefore Jesus was born miraculously.

            – Jesus Christ is the Messiah and he performed miracles.

            – The Old testament/Torah and the new testament/Gospel) are holy scriptures.

            – Satan is evil; therefore, people should not follow Satan.

            – An Anti-Christ will appear on Earth before the Day of Judgment.

            – Jesus Christ will return by descending from Heaven and will kill the Anti-Christ.

            – The Day of Judgment will occur and people will be judged.

            – There is hell and paradise.

            There are 3 main differences between Islam & Christianity:

            1. Today, most Christians believe in the Trinity, meaning that God has 3 forms (Father, Son, Holy Ghost/ Spirit). The concept of trinity was not adopted by Christianity until the Council of Nicea in 325 AD. Some of the early Christians were Unitarians. Even today, there are Christian Unitarian churches that do not accept the Trinity. Notable Rationalist Unitarians include thinkers such as Ralph Waldo Emerson (American), scientists such as Isaac Newton (British), as well as famous figures such as Florence Nightingale (British) in nursing and humanitarianism, Charles Dickens (British) in literature, and Frank Lloyd Wright (American) in architecture.

            While in Islam,

            (a) Trinity is totally rejected. Jesus is neither God, nor Son of God (in the literal sense). Jesus was a human prophet and not divine.

            (a) Muslims worship only God, the one and only the creator of the universe.

            (b) This God (the Quran refers to as Allah) is the God and creator of Jesus and is the same God that Jesus in the current Bible refers to as Father and to whom Jesus used to pray.

            (c) Muslims consider Mohammad, Moses, and Jesus as prophets and messengers sent by God (“messengers” is term that refers to prophets who brought holy scriptures to their people as a message from God). These prophets were human beings, not divine, and should not be worship directly or indirectly.

            (d) Muslims believe that each human being can be called son/daughter of God because he/she was created by God. So there is nothing special or divine about Jesus being called son of God and therefore Jesus should not be worshiped.

            (e) Finally, angels (such as Gabriel) are servants/agents of God. Angels are created by God; therefore, they are not divine and should not be worshiped.

            2. The Quran says Jesus did not die on the cross, but God made it appear that way to people. Furthermore, the Quran also says that Jesus was ascended to Heaven by God. Most Christians today insist Jesus was crucified and died on the cross, but two days later was resurrected.

            3. Christians believe in the concept of “Original Sin” which means that human beings are born as sinners , bearing the burden of the “Original Sin” of Adam and Eve. Muslims do not believe in the ” Original Sin” for 2 main reasons:

            (a) In the Quran, God forgave Adam for what he has done, and

            (b) according to the Quran, no one should be made to bear the burden of someone else’s sin or mistake because it is unfair.

            Muslims’ View of Christianity

            1. The true teachings of Jesus (pbuh) are fully compatible with Islam. Muslims are the true followers of the teachings of Jesus, Moses, and Mohammad (peace be upon them).

            2. Muslims regard the “real” Bible (that reflects God’s actual message and the real teachings of Jesus and the prophets before him) as a holy scripture. We believe that the Bible has been corrupted due to many factors and reasons. The current Bible is corrupted, but not completely false. So, we can still find today in the Bible some traces of the truth, such as verses that contradict with the Trinity. That is why Muslims are willing to accept the “current” Bible only to the extent that it does not contradict with the Quran.

            3. Modern Christianity was not founded by Jesus, but rather by Paul and the Romans in the Council of Nicea in 325 AD (meaning about 325 years after Jesus), inspired by Satan. In this Council of Nicea, Church leaders from around the world debated and finally decided on what should and what should not be included in the Bible. There were different views expressed in the Council; however, the views of the those who were most powerful won. As a result, lots of Gospels were thrown away. For Christianity to be adopted by the Roman Empire as its official religion, it had to succumb to the desires of the Romans who wanted to incorporate their own pagan religious beliefs and myths into Christianity. The integrity of the message brought by Jesus from God was compromised to appease the Roman Empire. Christianity has evolved into a cult that has deviated significantly from the true teachings of Jesus by: (a) adding new doctrines not preached by Jesus, (b) deleting or modifying some of the teachings of Jesus, and (c) creating an “unholy”, man-made scripture. A holy scripture must be in the form and content intended, inspired, or revealed by God, not created by human beings.

            4. Many Christians insist that Muslims do not worship the same God of Christianity. We say that Islam requires Muslims to worship only God (the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad), the creator of the universe. Many Christians mistakenly believe that without Trinity, there is no Christianity. We ask them if Trinity is so important why didn’t Jesus speak about it clearly. In many verses in Bible, Jesus contradicts the Trinity. We, as Muslims, say to such Christians, obviously, we do not worship the same “triune” God that you do. The Quran instructs us to worship only the creator of the universe and not worship any human being. Muslims today are the true followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ, as well as the teachings of Prophet Mohammad and the other prophets before them. Muslims worship the God of Jesus, the God who created Jesus and whom Jesus himself worshipped. Who is more worthy of worship: God or Jesus ?

            5. The Quran says clearly that Islam is the religion of “Fitra” (meaning “the inborn nature of everything created by God”). This means that Islam is the innate/inborn religion. This makes a lot of sense because it is natural for a human being to worship his/her creator who has also created and sustains the whole universe because no one knows more about human beings’ nature and needs than their creator and no one can sustain the balance and life in the universe better than God. Furthermore, it is natural to believe that there is one God because if there were more than one God, the universe would have been chaotic. Therefore, it is natural for human beings to want to establish a good relationship with the one and only God. God has sent prophets such Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad, exactly to tell human beings that in order to maintain a good relationship with God, they should follow God’s religion, meaning the set of beliefs and practices that: (a) is good for them personally for their life on Earth and in the hereafter, and (b) that creates peace and harmony among people as well as between people and the rest of the universe. God offered one religion preached by all of God’s prophets and this religion was finally given the name Islam.

            Just imagine yourself trying to explain the Trinity of Christianity to someone. The first thing this person is likely to accept is that he should worship God, the Creator and Sustainer of the universe, of course as long as this person is not an atheist. If you are dealing with an atheist, then first you have to prove to this person that there is God. Then, you can simply say that since now you believe in the existence of God, God expects you to worship him. Now, your final task, that is to make him believe in the Trinity, is certainly going to be much harder than convincing him of the need to worship God. Trinity is not a “natural” concept. It is a hypothesis (theory) that is more difficult to accept. You have to convince him that 3 is equal to 1. Trinity defies the laws of mathematics and the laws of nature.

            The purpose or rationale for the Trinity was to say that Jesus died for the sins of human beings and merely by believing in the Trinity and worshiping Jesus, people will be saved and they will go to paradise.

            There are at least 6 problems with the Trinity and the “Original Sin” doctrines:

            (a) These doctrines merely form a man-made hypothesis that defies the natural/inborn tendencies of people to worship only their creator as we have explained above.

            (b) They were adopted in the Council of Nicea in 325 AD in which there were views that differ sharply from today’s Christianity and many gospels were discarded.

            (c) Trinity is a concept that was copied from a popular pagan religion of the Romans, called Mithraism.

            (d) There are as verses in the Bible that contradict with the doctrine of Trinity.

            (e) The Original Sin concept encourages people to sin as much as they want and not to do any good deeds. After all, regardless of their sins, Christianity teaches that Christians will be forgiven, saved and go to heaven as long as they believe in Jesus, as explained above.

            (f) The Original Sin concept is not fair, as we have explained earlier, because no one should be made to bear the burden of someone else’s sin or mistake.

            6. Today’s Christianity is a product of man-made corruptions, motivated by personal and political reasons, and inspired by Satan. The primary objective of Satn is to entice people to disobey God and stray away from his religion. Satan knows that most people will not agree to worship him (Satan). So, Satan is satisfied by just making people follow him indirectly. By inspiring people to corrupt the Bible and create today’s Christianity, Satan believes that he won one battle against God, but even Satan knows that he cannot win a war against God. Satan utilizes several methods to achieve his objectives such as: (a) Satan entices people to do evil things by camouflaging the bad aspects and creating an attractive illusion about the benefits one will get for doing these evil things, (b) Satan attempts to stop people from doing the good things that God has commanded, (c) Satan does his best to strengthen the sense of vanity, selfishness, over-confidence, and invincibility in individuals to the extent that Satan makes them feel they do not need God and consequently either reject the existence of God or at least choose to disobey him (this is exemplified by people who “act like God”).

            7. Satan acted like a deceitful businessman. He noticed a unique opportunity and he wanted to take advantage of it. The opportunity was the advent of a Jesus, a prophet with a genuine message from God that was originally intended to correct the beliefs the Jews who strayed away from God’s religion. Satan did what some deceitful sellers of vegetables and fruits do today. He inspired Paul and the Romans to create Christianity in such a way that they sell it as a package that includes bad apples inside the package, but with some good apples (Jesus’ teachings and message) displayed in the upper viewable portion of the package to deceive people into buying the package. The package is wrapped in attractive way and the buyer has to buy it as a whole package. As a businessman, Satan wanted his evil product to be bought and used by the largest number of people and that is why he chose to inspire the Roman Emperor to adopt Satan’s product, giving it a brand name, Christianity, and making it the official religion of the Roman Empire. This is how Christianity was created and promoted.

            8. It is also worth mentioning that the Old Testament (Jewish Torah) was also corrupted likely by Jewish Rabbis and priests to fit their own preferences.

            9. Finally, we should also point out the important role of scribes and translators in corrupting the Old & New Testaments. Some of the corruptions by these scribes & translators were possibly done intentionally, while others may have occurred unintentionally.

          13. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Does #9 have anything to do with Hadiths and Fathead-Wahs??

          14. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Don’t need to read it … a Jehovah’s Witness comes and reads it in bits every Saturday. :-))) I always manage to sway them to weather and how weird the Middle East is. At least, they don’t hold guns, and ‘chats’ are pleasant.

          15. Reasonableman Avatar

            Your being silly

          16. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Half of these discussions are …. and totally unrelated to trying to have a functioning country for the citizens, as far as I’m concerned. Hard to believe how many people love living in year ZERO.
            (and then someone will tell me which wonderful great sect invented the wheel)

          17. Oh dear good being, you are right the governance of Satanists, Zionists, Atheists, Procrastinators, etc. has helped immensely in functioning of the World leave alone a country or people as so called sold Religionists and Followers of any religion are mere pawns in their hands which they use when they feel the need to create confusion and to malign God, his Messengers, Books, Commands, honest followers, etc.
            Wish everyone were like them and you, sure you enjoy and are at peace being all that.:)))))
            Aren’t ya proud of their creations the evil Isis, boko haram, hezbusatan, etc.?:)))))
            Aren’t they the ones who created that wheel of yours among other amazing things?:))))

          18. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yup … And a chariot wheel killed King Tut. Amazing. So we know Egyptians didn’t invent it, since they were already using.
            Sun God RA, is, however, still offering the cheapest electricity rates ever.

          19. Egyptian Mythology – Own
            Stay dedicated, they need followers like you!:)))

          20. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Only in your mind.

          21. They say the same but Diffi-Cult to hide what’s in heart n mind and more than often gets revealed. Everyone are wrong, its all imagination of their minds. Btw, you are not the only one so it’s all good to proclaim or 2020 officially!? Just kidding…:)))

          22. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Small correct … Saul of Tarsus (military mind) – became Paul the Apostle.
            ‘Reborn’ in a new role. ‘Wordcarrier’.

          23. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Don’t know why you threw muhammad in there at the end. Theoretically he hadn’t been born yet to emulate exactly, by example, how to sit in an olive-garden and contemplate his existence.
            While we’re at it …
            Did you ever watch or listen to ‘Jesus Christ – Superstar’ .. the musical??
            Loved it, myself. Has all the ‘unanswered’ questions in it. 😉

      2. Jews enslave American politicians.New world order created by American Jews to control all over the world.you kids know nothing.American show their white face in media,and hiding their true black face.America is not helping.They divided Arab on behalf of Jews.that why Arab are killing each other after 9 sept.Dictatorship in Arab world is an advantage to America and jews to destroy Arabs world.To plant democracy only a fake.You fool kids know nothing.You are still underage to know world affairs.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          With the line on ‘kids’, I agree. :-))

        2. Did you read what I wrote . You repeat what I said in other words. Yes the American and Jews are too smart for the Arabs that’s why they are killing each other. Yes the yanks creat all this we all know this you don’t have to be a grown up to understand the facts.

          1. you need to see Jews lobby in america.on your tube.and read Jew watch..in web…It is american top scholars who exposing that all..non of them are muslims.You wrote the fail fact.You are bad historian.

          2. Can you stop with your hatred for Jews and inventing all sorts of speculation. We Jews(/Zionist or whatever you want to call us) are interested more in raising our kids and to fulfil their potential instead of teaching them to hate and that is why we managed to build this wonderful country from the desert, and everywhere we been around the globe, we managed to contribute. We do not brainwash our kids about Muslims / Christians and so on as you do!. Look what is going in the surrounding countries to Israel – you are all in wars! There is not even one safe place for you because you teach to hate each other! Further to this, even if you disconnected from the M.E, people like you are end in jail. As I said, you can call me a Jew or whatever, but you just jealous of the sense of family and support we offer to each other within our family, and you just a poor hating person.

          3. $89733098 Avatar

            Lol with ur comment u show u r no better than the person u r abusing.

          4. Barbie, I am not abusing anyone. I answered to the points he raised which are totally nonsense. He is using propaganda used by Nazi German before they mass murdered 6 millions of us. I, unlike him, will not generalise bad things on an ethnic group because it is a wrong thing to do. I spoke specifically about him and the way he speaks – he is actually try to convince people that Jews are responsible for all the illness in the world.

          5. $89733098 Avatar

            “Look what is going in the surrounding countries to Israel – you are all in wars! There is not even one safe place for you because you teach to hate each other! Further to this, even if you disconnected from the M.E, people like you are end in jail.”

            That is generalising.
            Secondly if u want to converse with me in a civil matter then please don’t call me barbie. Only the sectarians and hypocrites on this blog call me barbie. Those pigs know who they r.

          6. Barabie – the quote you put is not generalization, it is a situation:
            1. Lebanon you have an internal war
            2. We all know about Syria
            3. In Iraq it is a war
            4. In Egypt: Sinai is currently a war zone
            5. Jordan – stable for now … so one exception out of what I said.

            Now, the second part of what I wrote is about people like zabana … In the western world if you spread hatred and lies you go to jail – it is a fact. I haven’t mentioned anything about his origin or religion!
            Second, sorry for misspelling your name :o)

          7. $89733098 Avatar

            “Jordan – stable for now… so one exception out of what i said.”

            Let’s use that one comment as an example. That proves your previous “all” comment as being factually incorrect.

            Secondly, when you say “all” you are generalizing regardless of how you try to sugar coat it.

            Not trying to argue with you but pointing out a simple fact.

          8. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yah, I was eyeballing that ‘Jordan – stable for now’ line. It almost assumes that there will be a future of instability, doesn’t it?
            Creationist possibilities …. ??? I’m sure some plan it ….
            Considering the amount of refugees Jordan has taken in, one could be amazed … however, they did it right! Called the UN and said: ‘We need a hand’, and they got it – worked at it – and even if it’s not the most desirable spot to be stuck in it’s better than in some places that could be (cough, cough) mentioned; and which is only ALL Assad’s fault that those people suffer somewhat by being there. They are doing better than those who stayed behind, looks like.

          9. $89733098 Avatar

            “It almost assumes that there will be a future of instability, doesn’t it?”

            It does and if it happens i wouldn’t be surprised.

          10. Jew Watch can answer you.I only telling true stories.It is a bad nightmare to the world when Jews interpreted religion as their politic tool.All clever people and scholars say the same a bout Jews and Zionist Jews.Not only me. unfortunately this machine will show the whole story of all nation,not only Jews.No body can prevent this.You must blame eletronic massmedia for that.

          11. Who is Jew Watch? What are you talking about? Could you concentrate on specific people and not on ethnic group! Why you do not speak about the Jews that invent medications and technology which you, your family and rest of the world is using? Why don’t you generalise a good thing about the Jews? You are a very narrow minded person Zabada and you are not far from the terrorists in ISIS by the way you are thinking!

          12. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Well Alon …
            (aside from knowing it wasn’t jews who invented EVERYTHING … a ‘line’ of BS which really bugs those of us who know that … even as we admit many good things came from the sane minds of ALL inventive people ….
            … talk about propaganda … geezzzz))
            I think Zabada is talking about other web-sites slanted in their peculiar ways. They all seem to be, no matter WHO they’re watching. Right? 😉

          13. I mean Zionist Jews.I m narrow minded.khah..khah..khah.That is you.who are know nothing a bout Israel lobby in America.Even all American scholars acknowledge this.I advice you not to live in Israel.Israel actually can,t survive in the midst of too many Arabs.Find you house out side israel.Somewhere in europe.One day in future Israel will defeated by Arabs and Jews there will be killed.Safe your self by stay a way from Israel.Stay a way from Zionist feud with the world.I m only advising you.I know many thing than you are.

          14. But ..errr..Hitler said Jews doesn,t have civilization..they are overlap the whites civilization..and distorted and ruined the white,s civilization.Not me who said that,it is the white,Hitler said that.Not me.Go fight Hitler on his grave.

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yah … and us ‘white guys’ are still working on the remains of that.
            Some crap hangs around a long long time, doesn’t it? 😉

          16. Countessa Al Abyad Avatar
            Countessa Al Abyad

            I respect Jews not the Zionist Revisionism of Zion.

          17. Anti ISIS Avatar

            This is typical ME mentality, blame the Jewish people for all their own wrongs instead of looking in the mirror and asking themselves how can I contribute to man kind instead takebeer takebeer, kill the infidel. Take no notice my friend as I’m sure you know that the truth hurts. I’m a muslim and I wish we muslims treated eachother like the jewish people do. The wars in the ME can only be blamed on the person who picks up a gun and shoots an innocent person. We all brains and we all know wrong from right. We have no excuse. Take care brother.

          18. $89733098 Avatar

            If u r Muslim then I’m Buddhist.

          19. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Yah, I dont fit the part of a TRUE muslim. For example, I haven’t got a beard down to my chest, I don’t wear a condom on my head, I don’t force my wife to wear a mail box as head wear, I don’t pump hate into the mind of my children by telling them that all who is not
            muslim is an infidel, I befriend Christian, jews and any person who treats me the same way I treat them, I don’t pray in public for all to see. I don’t believe in the 72 virgins in heaven, I don’t degrade other religions, I don’t believe that woman are a second class to men, I allow my wife to walk next to me in public, I except my wifes opinion when she gives it, I don’t bash my if she raises her voice, I don’t believe in jihad el nikah, I don’t believe in jihad el weeda3, I don’t believe that walking into a church is sin. I’m sure I’ve forgotten thousands of other things that makes me a non true muslim. But what would expect from a non true muslim, right. Enjoy your righteous path my true muslim.

          20. $89733098 Avatar

            “i don’t wear a condom on my head”
            Why? Where do u wear it? it is meant to go on your head. duh! That explains the outbreak of chlamydia and gonorrhea at the local piggery.
            “i don’t force my wife to wear a mail box as head wear”
            Lucky, otherwise where would the postal worker deliver the mail?
            “by telling them that all who is not muslim is an infidel”
            yes only all who is not ali-wee is an infidel.
            “i don’t pray in public”
            I don’t care where u pray as long as it’s not in my way!
            “i allow my wife to walk next to me in public”
            You “allow”? How GRACIOUS of you to “ALLOW” your wife to do that. wow!
            “i except my wifes opinion when she gives it” after i have given her permission to give it.
            “i don’t bash my wife if she raises her voice”
            Find that very hard to believe considering you have threatened to “bash” me. You are known as a woman basher on this blog.
            “I don’t believe in jihad el nikah”
            But hang on what about your family pics you posted where your wife was performing jihad el nikah with nasty?
            Don’t know wtf jihad el weeda3 is.
            “i don’t believe that walking into a church is sin”
            “man where you get this bs from”?
            as for your last line, hahahahahahahahaha beyeekh.

          21. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (really liked the condom line ….)

          22. You are great paranoid.

          23. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (I try to imagine the 18-ft ‘Sitting Booby Buddha’ cast in bronze with gold-leaf accents, and incense burning in iron-wood trays … sigh ….)

          24. $89733098 Avatar

            “This is typical ME mentality, blame the Jewish people for all their own wrongs”

            As opposed to you who blames sunnis for all your stupidity. I swear if you were any more stupid you would be committed to a padded room to save u from yourself. There should be a law or test on who can have kids coz you certainly wouldn’t pass that test. Your poor kids.

          25. Yes, it happened to us 2000 years ago. There was a lot of sectarian hatred and killing among us which resulted in our destruction and suffering for just as long. We almost lost everything as a result of baseless hatred among one another. Now, we try not to hate or kill each other because of the past. See Josephus.

          26. I m not hating them.I m writing true stories on Jews.Not all jews,it is on zionist jews.

          27. stop bad plan and stop to rob Palestenians..i will stop my hatred.

          28. 5thDrawer Avatar

            What they fail to understand is that it is ‘Business’ and not ‘Religion’ that drives. On ‘their side’ they believe it is Religion that Must drive the bus. And it breaks down a lot because of that. They fail to check the oil and radiator.
            The ‘belief’ that if it starts, it will keep running.
            Meanwhile, of course, ‘Business’ made the damn engine so ‘efficient’ most people have forgotten how to lift a hood and try to find the ‘dip-sticks’.
            (Aside from the dip-sticks who think they should be able to find ‘repair magic’ on a cell-phone … hahahahahhaha)
            (Allo Akbar?? Can you send a tow-truck? I have a flat tire.)

        3. Scott Sinnock Avatar
          Scott Sinnock

          Another late comment, 5th, if you are there. But Zabada, we are following the Eisenhower doctrine, outlined in his farewell address where he warned of the “military-industrial” complex, and its influence on academic freedom. In the same address he called for “maintaining a balance” among our opponents, ensuring none grows strong enough to challenge us. So switch sides to support the weaker to keep them both manageable. Good strategy, and especially effective where there is so much hate to harness. Just keep stirring the local pot of hate and we have no fear.

      3. Christian armies raped 200,000 Germany women,from age 8 to 80 when Russian invade German.many of the women hang themselves.The Mass rape of all time..That is your side.You are better nation…? Shit.Find me in History muslims raped such too many women.Even many of the ISIS stories are made up by your side.America is blaming before they are going to killing people.That is you hero…Who are killing Red Indians in America to rob their land.Mass murder nations..black face wolves.You have no sense,no human sense.

        1. Is this the Christian army you are referring to Zabada?
          exactly how did you qualify Hitler and the Nazi movement to fit into the example and teachings of Jesus?

          1. I expose this because some of Christian are blaming us.I m not the one who are blaming others first.They are not only blaming,they are worse than that…The truth i don,t like to tell bad story on others..but some of them are forcing me to do so.That is my obligation to defense our side.They make the world looked us bad,if I not expose on their side.your bad boys called us pig.the truth …we are not using this word.Peace.

          2. sweetvirgo Avatar

            Christians don’t make you look bad….ISIS, al qaeda, nursa and all other terrorist groups. Blame them my friend. This is not what God intended the world to do…there is too much evil.

          3. not only depend on what you saw..depend on what is the truth.

          4. sweetvirgo Avatar

            Are you kidding me right now?? What truth are you looking for in these groups?? Do you think any of these groups that I mentioned are good people??

          5. as i said… they have no choice.

          6. as I said they have no choice.Syiah is worse than nonmuslims to live with.

          7. Why couldn’t ISIS be useful and cut off the heads of shits like you instead? That’s right…probably because they’re too busy raping your wife and your mother. Keep on supporting rape and murder. And keep trying to rationalize it. God himself will ram his massive holy penis up your ass as a reward for your support of ISIS.

          8. sorry kid.your mind too limited to disquss with.Go and play football or whatever you like.

          9. christian do evil better at the past even now.Since islam increase 200%,some bad Christian is using some dark room in islam to prevent people to convert to islam.That why all crimes among muslims are well highlighted i media,and they hide their own. otherwise it is not our trend to do the same.That why too many people are hating muslims and Islam.The truth Christians, do atrocities better in history.But only great historian know this.Since most of people is not a great scholars,so they believe what they found in media.that all.

          10. sweetvirgo Avatar


          11. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yah, that one is confusing …. I think he said Christians did ‘evil’ better all through history than Muslims did, up to this year, I assume.
            (man .. I hope tanning naked isn’t evil … although I admit I thought I was fairly proficient at it …)

          12. sweetvirgo Avatar

            LMAO…..I swear 5th you make me laugh :))

          13. 5thDrawer Avatar

            It’s the best medicine, sweets. (‘they say’ ;-} )
            Try this site …. somebody makes money on comedy … I should work on it more.

          14. sweetvirgo Avatar

            You are the comedian of Yalibnan….keep it up. Its good to laugh :))

          15. Thanks for your reply Zabada,

            First I will tell you that I think you are a smart and calm man and I like many of your recent comments but please know that as a christian that is familiar with what the true standard of early christinanity is I am able to disqualify myself and the majority of people when they fall short of what a christian standard really is.

            As a muslim yourself and many others You have a serious problem for a lack of definition to moderate muslims and billions of spectators around the world privy to the horrid violence taking place in syria and iraq. in a nut shell IT IS VERY VERY DISTURBING!!!

            Zabada is is only right for me to give every muslim the benefit of the doubt but may I ask you a question? WOULD YOU CHOP OF A REPORTERS HEAD???

          16. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Do you remember our soldiers (kids) urinating on bodies of kids (18 or so) they had just killed? Killing fosters hatred and war has lots of killing that many people see. How much hatred has been fostered by one video of a person just before being beheaded? Would you bomb a child in revenge?

          17. Hi Scott, right you are and soldiers have done even much worse too, please know that I dont claim any soldiers to be MINE, I am just a civilian interacting with other civilians that I hope would rely on their own mind and own action not to be sucked in cheering for any of the players as they all have their own interest and goals, however by far I feel more comfortable and compatible with societies and cultures that lean towards talk and tolerance in oppose to summary judgment and beheading as a solution.

          18. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Me too.

          19. They chopped him because they know the whites,America is killing them,Saddam, their sunni leader,That why whites western people must stay away from Arab world.How many america had kilied people in Iraq?500.000.So they chopped one.The truth they need Bush ,to chop his head of.These isis is not a great scholars,they are civilians and armies.Like most armies all over the world they are lack of education and consideration.You answer me Why the world is hating America and whites people.At the past they are robbers at colonial times.This planted hate on them all over the world..America, even now still invading and being a robbers for Jews,killing for Jews .They are hiding their black face with a word..democracy.That why their head cut off by Arabs,If all people read history and know bad event in america,it politicians, not civilians, all nation will cut of the white,s head.One head instead of 500,000 Iraqis that killed by the Whites America.At the past Red India is hating White people in america in cowboy movie..Why..White are killing their families and rob their land.That why all nation in the world is hating all the whites.Most of he whites is being wolves.The whites will remind as that animal for decades. now you know why they chopped out that white.Ask the white to come in Iraq…and there will no peace forever.The whites is enemy to all human being ,they need to stay a way from all nation ,all people ,in order to plant peace.The whites is weird.Read History..world history.

          20. Well You got me convinced If all whites and jews were wiped out tomorrow we will have instant peace on earth, I cant hide it any more I am white and very weird weird 🙁 therefore I will try a self head chop this weekend and contribute to world peace 🙂

          21. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (pssst … Geo … Just come have some good Scotch …
            They will think you’re gone, 😉 )

          22. On my way, do you have a funnel handy or should I bring a siringe to enjoy the single malt, as you can see I am headless now which poses a drinking problem =D

          23. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Overly-donating again ??? ;-))
            Remember … it’s tax-deductible. Syringes available … :-)))

          24. $89733098 Avatar

            “should I bring a siringe to enjoy the single malt”

            wow a fully grown man living in the west that doesn’t know how to spell SYRINGE!

          25. 5thDrawer Avatar

            That’s the ‘sniping’ that isn’t really needed.

          26. $89733098 Avatar

            I didn’t see you telling yourself or certain others that when you and they were “sniping”.
            Should i use the h word?

          27. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I was simply pointing it out … as you often do as well .. in your own subtle ways. 😉

          28. Unfortunately, you are too smart for your own good.

          29. most of white are wolves..not all..most of them..in history.Many their of civilians are indeed good people.Their politicians force them to be a wolf.

          30. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            As ISIS is now doing.

          31. I guess,they defense their faith.They ca,nt live under Syiah leaders.Syiah is an oppressing political religion.I know it,s history well.It is too hard to live under Syiah.You read how sunni treated in Iran.

          32. How did you judge an entire sect. Like Jesus once said: false judgment is the father of all evil. And David said: life and death are in the power of the tongue.

          33. History and hisory of theology.

          34. 5thDrawer Avatar

            An earlier version of ‘The Pen is Mightier than the Sword’.
            (which is why despots kill off scholars first)
            (see: Iran students in Green …)

          35. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Count me in bro. Allah Akbar, kill kill.

          36. Hey farq, how have you been bro? I have been meaning to deliver greetings back to you from the prophetttt, what have you been up to PART TIME WORKER :)p

          37. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Hey Geo, been excellent, thanks for asking bro. In the process of opening another business. Trying to find some employees with good people skills and someone who I think would be exceptional in customer service.The first person who came to mind is Barabie. I hope she will except the position once I ask her. :-))) Still trying to work as little as possible. However this whole part time work thing can get quite boring. Just purchased a 67 mustang which I hope to do up. One day. How about you brother, hope you are well and not working to much. Remember, there are better things to do besides work. Like spending most of your time on this blog. Lol. Take care brother and tell prophet I miss him.

          38. Hi Farq I would fill out an application and come work fro you but my head would definely be chopped off in australia from the ready and willing 🙂

            A 67 mustang ? awsome I did not know you were into cars too but I have owned 13 mustangs and 1 eleanor that was celebrity owned but can not mention by who lol. if you are partial to ford powered cars I am restoring a 1970 mangusta and a1972 pantera, , is your mustang right hand drive? lets talk cars form now on politics SUCK!! :)P

            Still working but took 5 months off from aviation to regroup after a friend of mine crashed and died while I was at the airport 🙁 I am working on a exit plan by next june, no retirement but doing something that leaves more time for familly. Have a super weekend and send pix of the mustang,still waiting on 5th to send pix of the cool jag 🙂

          39. $89733098 Avatar

            Wow u sound so childish. I truly feel sorry for ur wife u Good Samaritan.

          40. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Hey Geo, besides my wife and kids, cars are my second passion. I am just finishing a 77 ford cortina. Engine was put in last week. 250 stroked to a 265. Hoping to get good times out of it on the quarter. The mustang is right hand drive and blue with white pin strips. Will send pics soon. It has 289 in it, however engine is coming to make room for a 351 clevo. Fully worked of course. Lol.
            I was able to track down a nine inch for it, however the guy wants a little bit to much. Still in the process of negotiating with him. This is my first mustang and I know you have experience in them, I will be coming to you for advice. If that’s ok brother.

          41. Farq I am very pleasantly surprised bro that you are car crazy and yes I would be glad to help, one way or another I will connect with you and talk more projects. isn’t it great to be forever childish? =D

          42. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Brother I will create a temporary email to send you. Would love to make contact with someone as genuine as you. Actually I just want to use you for your experience in mustangs. Lol. As for cars. Been in to them since can remember. I love bikes as well, however I choose not to ride anymore as I will as my friends say, kill myself if I continued to ride likeI did. Something about speed that me high. Lol. At least with cars I have metal around me for protection. Lol.

          43. Great, super glad you don’t ride anymore, very high risk as you know. believe it or not you can have more fun going fast on a jetski and jumping waves with much less injury risks. I look forward to connecting with you, I Have a special request that can wait for now 🙂

          44. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Hey Geo, I have created an email for you to contact me on. It is as follows. I will have it open for 24hrs. Then I will delete it for obvious reasons. I look forward to it.

          45. Just replied, thanks. senegals 🙂

          46. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Just replied with my email bro.

          47. Leborigine Avatar

            Hope you don’t mind me butting in, but why would you replace a 289 with a 351C? I know that the 351C is one of the best engines that Ford has produced, but in a Mustang, a 289 can still pull 300HP for the same amount of money you are going to spend on the 351C. With 300HP, you will achieve high to mid 10’s on the quarter mile. I believe in originality, and if your Mustang came out with a 289, I recommend to keep the 289 in it for great resale value.

            I just sold my 1974 Ford Capri with a 289 high revving engine, and that thing buzzed like a F1. It pulled 11.89 on the quarter mile.

            I am now rebuilding a 1964 Citreon DS21 as they have just entered the Classic market for resale and a 1978 Ford Cortina TE with its original 2 litre black motor for the quarter mile!

          48. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Lebo, what the hell are you doing bro, How could you sell the Carpi. They are a beautiful car and very rare. Sure you had your reasons, however if that was me, I would never sell it. :-))). I know what you are saying about originality bro. I still haven’t bought the clevo yet. I might do a bit more research before I decide which way I’m going to go. You should hear the stroker I built for my Cortina Lebo. Just hocked up some headers with 2 1/2 inch exhaust. The thing sounds like a V8.

          49. Leborigine Avatar

            I had to Anti! I have defaulted on my mortgage for the last three months and needed to get back on my feet. The Capri broke my heart when it drove away with its new owner, but I am sure it has found a very good home, I made sure of it. I made good money on it but will never find the same one again.

            Anyway, if your Cortina has a 250 crossflow in it, haha, that thing launches stock standard, the 2.5 inch exhaust only makes it more musical :-). I had a TC in my younger years, I went broke replacing tyres for every wedding burnout! Those things are more dangerous than motorbikes, the power to weight ratio is next to nothing.

            I just got back from looking at a 1975 Mazda RX3, rolling shell and body + a 13B rotary engine sold separately. They were asking for too much, so I passed it. Didn’t want to go into the red again!

            Keep the Cortina Anti, they are going up in price big time!

          50. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Well Lebo, seeing though you like Cortinas, I also have a 1977 cortina which I purchased from Gilgandra which is 6hrs away from Sydney. It is a 1 owner which only had a little over 90000 km on it. Had it resprayed last year. You should see bro, it is in mint condition and all original. Even the vinyl roof is perfect. Spoke to my cousin who’s a mechanic about putting an xr6 turbo in it. However he won’t let me. He’s a bit like you when it comes to keeping things original. Haven’t got much room left so I’m not sure what i’m going to do with it as yet. It’s even got the original AM radio in it which works perfectly. I tell you what though bro, the wife is doing my head in about the cars. Lol. With the one I just built, I put a hemi crack with hemi con rods in it. The head has been ported and polished with yella terra rockers. Its got a stage 4 cam running a 650 double pumper. The thing F@% king flys. However I think I need to change the barg warner box and put a Celica 5 speed and change the diff ratio to 3.7’s instead of the 3.5’s which are in it at the moment.

          51. Leborigine Avatar

            I love the Cortina’s Anti! That sounds pretty original, you must be mad even thinking of changing the engine, it’s criminal!

          52. $89733098 Avatar

            “you must be mad even thinking”

            Yes that describes farqed up perfectly.

          53. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Are you still mad at me.

          54. $89733098 Avatar

            Lame. I reckon u r some pimple faced teen.

          55. $89733098 Avatar

            Yeh better pass on ur people skills like abusing ones dead mother. U r perfect candidate for worlds most stupid Ali-wee

          56. You are one of the few reasonable people here who still have a heart.

          57. $89733098 Avatar

            Lol stop the charades. It’s obvious who u r.

          58. Many thanks for your kind words Disciple, very appreciated but I must apologize in advance for future hate mail that may come your way on account of what you kindly expressed.

          59. $89733098 Avatar

            Lol u r sad

          60. sweetvirgo Avatar

            I think you are sympathizing with IS a little too much. True America has made mistakes but stop trying to downplay what these terrorists groups are doing. They are forcing people out of their homes…forcing people to convert…..they are forcing people to “pay tax”. They are raping women, killing (and posting it on tv) all they deem “enemy”. I don’t care what your religion is or where you come from but don’t sympathize with these barbarains. These groups are not soliders but a miltia that wants to take over and be the only ones to exist in the Middle East. I have news for you the Middle East doesn’t just belong to them but I’m sure you know that since you’re such a historian.

          61. Greetings Virgo, I tried reading the comment before and after my triple espresso and still read justification of foley’s beheading based on events he had no guilt of.

          62. sweetvirgo Avatar

            Greetings and salutations my friend. I think Zabada just has a bad case of “I don’t like America”.

          63. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            We hate ’em when they’re democrats (republicans) but love ’em when they’re Americans.

          64. America killing 500,000 people in Iraq is not terrorist?If muslims killing there of them ,they called mulslms are terrorist,they even called all muslims are terrorist.If they called 500,000 is not terrorist.America now turn to terrorist country.Zionist make them to be a real terrorist.America must stay away from all nation.They are great terrorist of all time.If American on your soil,there will be chaos forever.They are not helping.Like at the past they divide people to invade.They will remind their behave for more decades.They are fooling the world,including you .But not me.As always America will blame before they are going to killing people.If America not intervene in any country in this world,the world is having peace.It Israel and america ,who are the question in Middle east.They emerge in middle east to invade,destroy .they still a crusade ,not for Christian,but for Jews.Most Arabs is ignorant.Like you they know nothing.Jews are scheming.Only some know their trick.That

          65. sweetvirgo Avatar

            The divide amongst the people you claim happened because of the people. America is not to blame for everything wrong in the world. We are talking about IS and other terrorists groups. They don’t belong in this world.

          66. America who are creating opposite sides in middle east,or prolong all side,urged them to fight each others.

          67. sweetvirgo Avatar

            Yes and if I urge people to fight it’s my fault not the people. Your views and beliefs are very disturbing. ISIS is pure evil but you want to blame America for it….you don’t make any sense.

          68. you must blame America first,then you can blame ISIS.

          69. sweetvirgo Avatar

            No I blame terriosts group and the people that sympathize with them.

          70. America is the greatest terrorist of all times if yo know the whole world affairs.But your mind still belong to teenage boys.

          71. sweetvirgo Avatar

            Ummm no I’m way too old for teenage boys perhaps that’s your type?? Perhaps little girls?? We can insult each other if you like but I don’t like going that route. America has made mistakes like other countries have but the way you sympathize with ISIS is just disgusting.

          72. I only sided them with their theology and religion.As I say they have no choice,because syiah is an oppressing religion they dragged people to a cult.Sunni can,t under them,even beside them.You nonmuslim know nothing a bout our feud with Syiah in religion and politic at the past..Syiah a political religion.By that, war is available with them,since they are greedy to gain political power over sunni throughout history.To depend their to theology they have no choice at their situation.It is to make you understand.You are ignorant a bout hisory of syiah and you know nothing a bout the truth.That why all white new convert is fighting with isis.It is because to defend theology and religion over syaih,a cult.

          73. you need to hear to America politic scholars on jews lobby in u.s.in.u..tube.It is israel who urged u.s to destroy middle east for them.All fraction you see in middle is increase because of u.s plan.As i said you know nothing a bout major world affair now days.

          74. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (hmmmm … wonder what her ‘max-age line’ is … )

          75. $89733098 Avatar

            “We can insult each other if you like but I don’t like going that route”

            “You are the comedian of Yalibnan….keep it up. Its good to laugh :))”


          76. if you are oppressing by others badly ,you will turn to terrorist in one day,even you are a coward.The true terrorist is America.But they show you their white face.America fooling the world on behalf Jews.Here to great scholars in America,a bout Jews lobby in America and open you mind,increase your knowledge.

          77. America is having two opposite face.It is hiding it,s black face,otherwise they show their white face on media.They are working on behalf of Jews,Israel,to destroy Arabs on behalf of Israel.Arabs is the most ignorant people now.It is too easy to destroying an ignorant people.Now they are going to drag all nation to do Jews plan,to destroy Arabs.Israel can,t defend themselves forever in the midst too many Arabs.They need to move to Siberia to have new Israel there in order to avoid feud with Arabs.You are still teen age to know this.No need go to Havard and study world politic affairs there.

          78. $89733098 Avatar

            Are we not barbarians too??

            “Without question, the beheading of US journalist James Foley was an inexcusable and savage act of violence by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria
            (ISIS). The killing of non-combatants should always be condemned. But
            there is a clear discrepancy in the response of both the Western media
            and the general public with regard to the killing of Western civilians
            compared to Islamic civilians. The number of Western civilians killed by
            Islamic militants pales in comparison to the number of non-combatants
            that have died at the hands of the US and its military allies in Iraq,
            Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen. And yet, the outrage at the killing of
            these innocent Muslims, many of who are women and children, is virtually
            non-existent in the West.”


          79. 5thDrawer Avatar

            If you are going to count all the incidental bombings – like car-bombings – into the mix of what kills civilians most, it would be more fair to say that USA isn’t backing those, even if allied to the countries where they occur most regularly.
            Sorry if there are not as many people of ‘western tribes’ mixed into the crowds usually targeted by ‘the bombers’ … although a few in some places (eg. a Marathon race) have been part of the overall statistics.
            And yes, there is ‘outrage’ over all of that …. it’s just that ‘the west’ doesn’t show it the quite same way. If they did, there would be some empty ‘western cities’ too, by now.

          80. $89733098 Avatar

            Here we go you hypocrite!
            “Thirdly, my silence over ISIS does not mean that I support the group even if some fools take my silence as a sign that I do. Only when I ask some male tweeters to apologise on behalf of rapists, on the grounds that every rapist is a man so they must all be somehow culpable, does the penny drop; occasionally I’ll get a muffled apology.
            And finally, even if I jumped up and down and declared that “ISIS is the scum of the earth”, exactly what would that achieve anyway? I hardly think its leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi is going to lose any sleep over Yvonne Ridley’s views.
            There are few certainties in the chaos that is now the Middle East. However, what I can say with authority is that the world would never have heard of ISIS had widow-makers George W Bush and Tony Blair not
            launched their illegal war in Iraq in 2003. The world would also never have seen ISIS develop into the full blown monster that it is if the West had, at the very least, introduced a no-fly zone in Syria after the
            chemical weapons were unleashed on civilians by Bashar Al-Assad’s forces exactly a year ago this week.

            The question to ask is this: Who really benefits from the unfolding ISIS spectacle? The big winners are sitting within the Assad regime. It is that regime which was, by the way, suspected of capturing US journalist
            James Foley who went missing in north-west Syria on 12 November 2012. How on earth did he slip out of the Syrian government’s hands into those of the murderous head-chopping maniacs of ISIS?

            The former head of the British Army says that the West should sit down and negotiate with Assad to get rid of ISIS, but what if ISIS was created by Assad and his ally Iran, which has members of the elite Republican Guard in parts of Syria?
            As crazy as it sounds, that would explain why Nouri Al-Maliki’s Iraqi army fell away so easily in the face of ISIS leaving behind a massive arsenal of weapons for the militia to use. It is virtually inconceivable for a trained fighting force to leave all of its kit behind before doing a runner, just as it’s virtually inconceivable that a crack fighting force like ISIS could emerge from a rag tag bunch of ill-disciplined rebel fighters buoyed-up by disaffected youngsters from
            Europe and beyond.”


          81. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I think the ‘disaffected youngsters from Europe and beyond’ are a very small part, but good for the advertising.
            Latest thoughts (by many trying to analyse a ‘phenomina’ on those) include the ones with that ‘forever’ youthful desire for wild adventure before considering all the potential consequences, AND the acceptance of dying for some ’cause’ being better than the suicide they were going to commit at some point anyway.
            The recruiters are good at picking out the ones already on the edge, lost in a society with a lack of knowledge of their own ‘self worth’.

          82. $89733098 Avatar

            Are we not savages too?

            “Without question, the beheading of US journalist James Foley was an inexcusable and savage act of violence by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria
            (ISIS). The killing of non-combatants should always be condemned. But
            there is a clear discrepancy in the response of both the Western media
            and the general public with regard to the killing of Western civilians
            compared to Islamic civilians. The number of Western civilians killed by
            Islamic militants pales in comparison to the number of non-combatants
            that have died at the hands of the US and its military allies in Iraq,
            Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen. And yet, the outrage at the killing of
            these innocent Muslims, many of who are women and children, is virtually
            non-existent in the West.”


          83. I guess they take revenge on America who are killing 500,000 iraqis.

          84. Ah yes!! isn’t revenge a beautiful thing Zabada? Allllllll better.
            Keep up the good work. 322 million americans left to kill after ISIS gets done taking revenge on muslims in Iraq an Syria first.

          85. Anti ISIS Avatar

            Don’t leave Australia out Geo, after all, we are infidels as well.

          86. 5thDrawer Avatar

            And criminal ones at that. :-))))))

          87. so let them slaughtering people.

          88. go to ISIS and show your head to them to be cut off.It is better to you.Jews will praise and their girls will crying on your grave,even without your head.since you head eaten by ISIS.

          89. 5thDrawer Avatar

            (well … maybe only against jews … ;-))

          90. Jew is a only cause why america turn to terrorist country.

          91. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            I see you comment quite often on many sites. If you are a paid shill for ISIS you present your case well, but I suspect your motives. If you are just an observer like me, I listen to what you say and find much which seems right (ever wary of the shill). I just finished one of Averroes’ works. He might agree with you on some things but not your belligerence, though he might understand it and recommend using it to foster support for rational objectives arrived at by understanding the world. I, agreeing with Averroes about his own time, suggest leaders on both sides could use better understanding.

          92. 5thDrawer Avatar

            We all ramble around on different sites, don’t we? But then, come HOME to YaLibnan. It’s wonderful. :-))
            And on occasion, a Scott slides in. Love Haggis?

            Incidentally, I doubt many are ‘paid’. They ‘BELIEVE’.

          93. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            I looked it up. Do you mean the Lebanese media group that translates local news to English? Never heard of ’em, but thanks, now I have.

          94. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Haggis? you got me again, but I must try it sometime. Yeah, it seems to be mostly volunteered comments, ramblings, assertions and other such opinions, just like here, so we better beware — a real “people’s” forum, just like here.

          95. If religion can,t unite people, democracy was.But Arabs in that in area are not understand democracy.Their leader planted on them dictatorship.That is what they learn a bout politic.A least in a decade they will fight and find new dictator.in all side.We can do nothing.There is democracy in Iran,Even so there is not a single Sunni have been a minister.No sunni mosque,oppressed even killed by Iranian Syiah .Hence sunni fight for their life and right.I m sunni ,so I can,t oppose them.They have no choice.Otherwise i m not head hunters.I believe democracy make more sense.Otherwise Iraqis is not.We can,t do nothing.The west force democracy on Arabs by wars and force.I guess they better plant democracy with books,not gun.The truth,America planned to destroy Arabs on behalf of Jews,even non muslim believe this.The ignorance of Arab is an advantage to them.They are not helping..for sure.It is easy to destroy an ignorant.

          96. 5thDrawer Avatar

            It does. Too few see that … even if they live in it.

          97. a former terrorist,he quit now ,said,ISIS created by America.That why wounded ISIS cured in Israel hospitals.It is in your tube.No comment on that.

          98. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Amen, zabada when you say, “I guess they better plant democracy with books,not gun.” and I would add our surplus food to the widows, wives, and their children rather than our bombs. That, it seems to me, would be a better way to win the hearts and minds of the people of Iraq, or Syria, or Ukraine, or anywhere. Let the internet unleash an open debate among different cultural approaches to organizing a stable, peaceful society (e.g. secular vrs religious law or authoritarian vrs democratic) which seems to be the goal of all. Or are we “secularists and democrats” in the “West” so afraid of an honest debate? Do we truly believe in the superiority of our cultural ideas? If so, then we should believe also that we don’t need the sword to enforce them, the “people” will choose them —– in their own time, as the French did with their guillotine. Yes, Zabada, books not guns.

          99. In order to plant modern democracy,the west must passing civilization,modernization and modern technology on them.Hence their economy and education will increase.But this behave is too kind for a wolf.At the past Arabs is leading in civilization.Now they fully ignorant on that .I m not sure why Arabs turned to ignorant people in civilization after centuries.I still looking for the cause.I guess it is political monarchy system decrease their idea,since in monarchy the cleverest among them can,t be a leader.These kings will fight each others to be a great kings.By that they will killing civilization,science,tech and ect,not only their people.1000 years on that system is enough to destroy them.Their wealthy burned out to ashes in wars among themselves in order to be a great kings.This actually killed their unity.That why now Arabs is not unite themselves.They are easily defeated by by America and Zionist Jews.They are too greedy in power and worldly life.The truth ,at the past Arab s politician is nothing to do with god.It is about worldly life and crown.Only some of them make sense.I don,t believe in them anymore,I don,t believe on America and the west,they are all fake.In modern days there are no big empire like the past.Big empire divided to smaller countries in order to be fair among the the kings.This show how most people are too greedy in politic than unity.,power and worldly life.Humans being seem turned to wolves. Greedy turned people to wolves.This is the root of all wars, greediness,and not enough what was god favor to them.Greediness and arrogance if the root of all the killing and oppressing.Greedy is a great sins,even they show their white faces on public.

          100. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Simple ‘belief’ is not a bad thing. Taking all the ‘others’ views on it can mess a head up a lot. Accept there could be a simple belief in humanity … but LEARN the facts of life on the planet – and how to manage yourself among the wolves … to avoid the conflicts, and the killers.

          101. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            And realize the wolves are just trying to feed their pups.

          102. 5thDrawer Avatar

            As most of humanity does … yes.

          103. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            yes ….. no .. all humanity.

          104. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Thank you both for an enlightening, I suspect honest conversation. Gotta go chop some other wood now. Thanks.

          105. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I took a break from that … one needs to sleep on occasion … and get a haircut. :-))))

          106. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            I did, just yesterday thank you, every five or so years whether it needs it or not.

          107. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Speaking of trying to feed ….

            “Representatives of Lebanon’s business community sounded a warning Friday about the danger posed by the country’s political paralysis and its failure to elect a president – it’s the kind of distress call that politicians are adept at ignoring.”
            Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Opinion/Editorial/2014/Sep-13/270518-a-disaster-is-looming.ashx#ixzz3D9ONaCJY

          108. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I saw you pause to reflect on that ‘humanity’ one … maybe thinking of the ones who only wish to feed their own faces? ;-))

          109. My prophet said, there are only a bout,ten,eleven or twelwe people,out o fa millions, who are good people.At the end of universe,now.these people decrease.So I will not believe anybody.I guess most of them are wolves.

          110. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            You’re prophet was not alone, Jesus said few find the gate, Plato said most wallow in the cave of shadows, Averroes said most live in lower passions rather than higher understanding, etc. We can’t change ’em, we just gotta love ’em.

          111. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Until their ‘learning’ devolves, or is restricted to, only chopping heads. :-))
            But there again is education … and education should be applied so that the least capable understand it. ‘If the student has not learned, the teacher has not taught.’ The ‘main concept’, brought in language simple enough for … hmmmm … those humans you just need to love.

            Regarding those gates … closed to some …
            “The Commentary on Plato’s Republic reveals a side of Averroës that is not to be found in his other commentaries. While he carried on a long tradition of attempted synthesis between religious law and Greek philosophy, he went beyond his predecessors in spite of large-scale dependence upon them. He made Plato’s political philosophy, modified by Aristotle, his own and considered it valid for the Islamic state as well. Consequently, he applied Platonic ideas to the contemporary Almoravid and Almohad states in a sustained critique in Platonic terms, convinced that if the philosopher cannot rule, he must try to influence policy in the direction of the ideal state. For Plato’s ideal state is the best after the ideal state of Islam based on and centred in the Sharīʿah as the ideal constitution. Thus, he regrets the position of women in Islam compared with their civic equality in Plato’s Republic. That women are used only for childbearing and the rearing of offspring is detrimental to the economy and responsible for the poverty of the state. This is most unorthodox.”

            Ah yes … unorthodox. Indeed.
            Not all ‘philosophers’ were popular in their own time – and especially not when their ‘reasoning’ needed to be sculpted under others who made themselves ‘the authorities of thought’ … for political purposes in any given era … when publishing a ‘wrong thought’ could cost one his head.
            Dangerous it is, to apply LOGIC.
            Or, using it, to apply REASON.
            “Aristotle demonstrated the eternity of matter. Hence creation is a continuing process. Averroës sought justification for such an attitude in the fact that a Muslim is bound only by consensus (ijmāʿ) of ‘the learned’ in a strictly legal context where actual laws and regulations are concerned. Yet, since there is no consensus on certain theoretical statements, such as creation, he is not bound to conform.”

            See also:

          112. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Better run THAT line again ….
            ‘That women are used only for childbearing and the rearing of offspring is detrimental to the economy and responsible for the poverty of the state.’

          113. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Thank you teacher. You mentioned Ibn Rush’d’s critique of Plato’s Republic. That is the famous book I am now reading. I heard of it in undergraduate, maybe even read and forgot a few lines, then remembered it again recently as the “Muslim-Christian” civil war heats up again. I am only familiar with that book of his. Your summary added much to my understanding of his intent, though you say it is unusual for him. I gathered (his style switches from essay to satire so I have trouble knowing for sure which mode he is in sometimes) he endorses the idea of the educated guardian of Plato as the “best” solution to human political organization. He saw, as I read it, no reason women could not be guardians, as you point out, even soldiers, if they could pass the tests. But he also implied, I think, that women DO make great childbearing (by nature) and nurturing childrearing (by society) persons. Each trained in his or her natural proclivities (but how to define those proclivities, neither Plato nor Ibn Rushd explains very well, i.e. HOW to assign a kid to trade school or university). Anyway, I still search, and perhaps that in itself is the curse of hell. Thank you, teacher, for shining a light along the searching path I walk right now to help guide my careful steps.

          114. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Well Scott … We all still seek answers. Should, really, to ‘the end’. (and remembering everything in a book of philosophy is not possible for most of us.) I have one ‘heavy volume’ on Plato … but 2 (each larger) on Aristotle; of whom, it was remarked, most was lost – because his views didn’t fit well near the end of his time. Especially as a ‘One-God’ theory was being pushed rather more by then – and was less logical.
            ‘The Republic’ … a ‘Stage-Play’ of dialogues between specific characters.
            I admit I tend to skip some lines if trying to read it. Perhaps because ‘the thoughts’ which were put forward in the past have either been absorbed as an understood truth, or left behind as no longer applicable.
            The importance of education (beyond basic math and language skill) is to give a student the knowledge of HOW to look for the answers – and because we are not really quite all equal you note the need to quide, while watching ‘the kids’ to see how they progress. After school they don’t have that guide any more … they need to know how to look for what is needed in life when on their own. There ARE easier-to-read books which pass well as works of philosophy and draw conclusions … for instance:
            ‘Zen and the Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance’. A pleasurable tale.
            Although a bit of a comedy, and supposedly related to working life, I always enjoyed one small book … ‘The Peter Principle’ … and it’s first ‘Theorem’.
            “Every Man Rises To His Own Level Of Incompetence.” (yes, women too …)
            The ‘trick’ in life, is to recognize your own level, and then stop rising just before you reach it.
            I had a few Employers who obviously had never considered the implications.
            Most Lebanese Politicians should have been given this one …. :-))))
            (Good performance in one job does not guarantee similar performance in another.)

          115. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            I know the Peter Principle well. I got promoted to my level of incompetence (management), and both I and my employees suffered till I got kicked upstairs as chief advisor to the boss, who never listened anyway and fired me a few years later as superfluous to profit. Firing was a good step for me, humbling, and I never looked back, having never had a boss since. I also know of the art of motorcycle, car, or ego maintenance. I am now reading, for the first time all those books I learned about in undergrad. I wondered why are they still being printed after all these years when modern motorcycle books have their own shelf in the book store? Tomorrow I will attend a Shakespeare’s King Lear on Navy Pier, so continue my living in the past. I find relevance in the past to my life today, to my problems of self identity and reality, to my struggles with good and evil. Others do to, that is why they are still in print, it seems to me. Though some may regard them as quaint relicts of times gone by, I don’t. In these realms we are but left with rephrasing of the old sages. Who was it that said, “all philosophy is but a footnote to Socrates”? Quite an honor for one who left us no writing.

          116. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Plato chats with Socrates too. 🙂 They were boyhood friends – most likely.
            I never enjoyed ‘history’ much when in school. Either. :-))))
            (The bottom line in that Zen book … If you are going to do a job, do it well.)
            I ALWAYS bought the Manufacturer’s ‘Shop Manual’ with a car.
            And am NOT ‘Of University’. I think that was good pre-planning on my part. 😉
            So … here we are two old ducks who have learned through life, and appreciate the diversity – and sometimes wondered why there is so much. I had the ‘luck’ to be travelling at times … and enjoyed it. And for you and I in youth there were only books. I had to read them to learn how to write ‘Basic’. Hobby-time well spent. When the ‘job’ I loved began to die from computer haemorrhaging, I saved my ass because I had the interest in ‘the new’ and let the boss know it. He didn’t, but knew he had to ‘get into it’ or die as a business, and I worked ‘long enough’. The ‘grand-kids’ will never comprehend a time when there was only books and radio. And they haven’t yet understood the value of the ‘search engine’ – or, what it replaced in the imagination from a good book.
            I tax them sometimes …. 😉

            And the Biographies OF those great Philosophers are at least as interesting as what they came up with … and perhaps give better insight into what shaped their thinking. I read ….
            He comes from the most distinguished in society of the time. His Father is said to have traced his descent through Crodus to the God Poseidon. His Mother had two husbands, and the second had good connections for Plato. Plato first aimed for politics. Etc, etc, ….

          117. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Amen. Time, not school, is the greatest university, and its free. As Zabada might say, peace be with you, but from your comments, my appeal may be unnecessary.

          118. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Not until after I watch John Stewart. 😉 Then sleep, perchance to dream. 🙂

          119. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Oops, it was Plato, not Socrates, and it was Alfred Whitehead who said it, sort of, and he restricted it to “western” thought. (ain’t Google wonderful to allow us so easily to catch our own errors). Since Plato learned it all from Socrates, and his questions (though not his answers, Socrates gave few) were independently repeated by Lao Tzu (who also said, “I don’t know”), Zoroaster (who said he did), the scribes during the Babylonian exile (who said, not only did they know, they knew for you too), and others, I will claim the quote’s sophomoric extension, pleading ignorance of others who may have trod along this quoted path before me.

          120. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You may. 🙂 Plato apparently had his ‘students’ do a lot of his work for him too.
            It’s a handy device if you don’t wish to seem to be the actual author, as well, especially if your ‘master’ is not happy with your conclusions. :-)))
            (I use ‘Yahoo’ most often … Google is wanting too much of me …)
            (‘not only did they know, they knew for you too’ …. the modern Liberal … what I and a few friends rename ‘Fiberal’. Elections in 13 months ….)

          121. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            So more “fiberals” (I love the term, seems they fib to themselves so think they speak true to others) will get elected in 13 months, or somewhere every day. Sweden’s liberal fiberals are even called ultra-right wing (todays story elsewhere). Yes, the modern liberal, but I am biased, having just read not long ago Nietzsche’s “On the Genealogy of Morals”, a delightful and delightfully short book (I don’t have a long enough attention span to read long books, that’s part of why I pare the bible down to the red words). You might enjoy it, I did; gave me several great belly laughs, lots of agreeing nods, and a few raised eyebrows. But be careful, Nietzsche is often, though some say wrongly, associated with Nazi’s, you know, and of course he went totally mad, like King Lear, which I am off to see tonight (cheap mid-week seats) where my and most other commoner attendees’ shabby dress will mingle with the jewels and silks of the patrons or “patricians” (the program lists more than 2 pages, fine print, 5 columns wide, of annual donors over $10,000. This is rich people’s theatre. I gracefully accept the invitation to the banquet.

          122. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Good on you. Enjoy the play.
            I know the N name … can’t say I read about Morals .. yet. 🙂
            (copy – paste ..)
            My bible didn’t have ‘red’ lines .. 🙁 Damn, eh?

          123. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            You know what the “red words” are, of course? the actual words of Jesus as told by the gospels, and a few short verses in Revelations and Acts. In that whole thick book only a few pages are actually the red words. Makes it much easier to understand for my simple mind. I get confused with all the different versions of black words telling what the red words say. That’s why I like Epictetus (the Enchiridion or “Manual”, for life presumably, just 50 paragraphs), Lao Tzu’s “the Way” (about 81 short poems and paragraphs), etc. Man did I have trouble with Dante’s Divine Comedy, but it was worth struggling through, with help on that tome from a DVD lecture course from the Learning Company Strange to prefer a lecture on Dante to Archie Bunker or Seinfeld (shows that are but subtle “fiberal” propaganda to come full circle).

          124. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Yes, one notices that most is ‘reports’ of what was said.
            As perhaps is much of what we get from ‘the ancients’ … considering how much can be plonked into here with just typing for a ‘session’. :-)))
            We read for both entertainment and for knowledge. Making knowledge entertaining can be a trick, since not all brains see things the same way.
            SOME TOMES need to be read when one is in the right mood or setting … or perhaps when one is hungry. :-))) (After dinner is not the best moment ;-))
            (maybe that’s just old guys … I try to remember … youth was under the covers with a flashlight …)
            (P.S. …. They just printed a car … all except the engine and rubber.)

          125. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            I guess I am always hungry, as I said long ago now it seems in this forum, perhaps the search is the curse.

          126. 5thDrawer Avatar

            You remind me of an old song my mother knew … and would sing:
            ‘It Pays, to be igerunt; To be stupid to be dumb, to be igerunt …’
            She knew when to sing it too … ;-))
            It was her mother who always said:
            ‘I wouldn’t believe it if you proved it to me.’ :-)))))))

          127. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Oops, it was Plato, not Socrates, and it was Alfred Whitehead who said it, sort of, and he restricted it to “western” thought. (ain’t Google wonderful to allow us so easily to catch our own errors). Since Plato learned it all from Socrates, and his questions (though not his answers, Socrates gave few) were independently repeated by Lao Tzu (who also said, “I don’t know”), Zoroaster (who said he did), the scribes during the Babylonian exile (who said, not only did they know, they knew for you too), and others, I will claim the quote’s sophomoric extension, pleading ignorance of others who may have trod along this quoted path before me.

          128. What say you Zabada about david Haines that just got beheaded today….is he wolf too? a man that volunteered at a refugee camp, unarmed with aspiration to make a difference in other peoples lives in a Hell hole instead of being with his family, will you justify this one too as revenge?

          129. $89733098 Avatar

            Meanwhile the Syrian dictator slaughters tens of children and women and the hypocrite geo says nothing.

          130. Geo has nothing to say to you, the faces of men dressed in in orange do. stop changing the subject.

          131. $89733098 Avatar

            “Geo has nothing to say to”

            Lol as geo replies to me.
            Lol thank u for demonstrating your hypocrisy.
            Is that ur way of answering where ur rage is when it comes to Sunni kids massacred by asshead??
            Thank u so much for revealing more of ur true nature.

          132. oiii..geo..when you will favor your head to ISIS?.I m happy if you do that.Isis will love you forever,if you show you head to them..It is not too sick..they cut it fast.you will having long nice travel to hell fire.

          133. My head is in a fedex next day air box with fried rice and chop suey :)P

            so just to be sure, I am hell bound for being upset about a charitable person volunteering and getting his head chopped while the head choppers are paradise bound? and btw you forgot to end your comment with “peace”

          134. $89733098 Avatar

            “My head is in a fedex”
            Can u afford the postal charges on such a big head?
            Farq stop getting excited.

          135. Isis will stop figthing and obey Syiah ,when they got your head.So you must sacrifice for Syiah with your head.Syiah girls will crawling and weeping ,crying on your grave.

          136. isis think he is son,s of wolf…it is not me who are killing..you to go to isis and ask them why they killed people..now Assad atrocities seem wiped out from news.Even Assad is the most cruel dictator US not intervene.Isis is not cruel as Assad was.but America is killing them.Why..they are going to destroy and killing many Arabs as many as they can on behalf of Jews.Go to isis and show your head to them.When isis have your head,they will not like another head.Give your head of..on behalf of Jews and to save Jews,your big master.remember what I said.Give your head to ISIS.

          137. give you head to ISIS to be cut off.All settle.

          138. 5thDrawer Avatar

            ‘The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe’ … [Douglas Adams]

          139. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Well Scott … some of us prefer to take a ‘soul’ at his/her word more than ‘imagine’ that there must ALWAYS be an ulterior motive – a secret agenda.
            Sometimes we get stung, of course. Which is our own fault. But we learn by that – and learn also about the need to trust. Too much doubt chases good away. Most are seeking better answers for their own questions in life, right?
            Debate in faith of honesty. (At least, until the head goes missing …)

          140. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Yes, that’s one Christian army. How does in comport with Jesus? It doesn’t, no Army does, but most of those guys attended a church, probably Lutheran.

          141. 5thDrawer Avatar

            The ‘God & Country’ conundrum.

          142. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Ghengis Khan’s 6th rule of empire “God is on your side, satan on the enemy’s”
            Rule 4, “The enemy is not human”. Rome fought the barbarians, Persia fought the “barbarian” Greeks. Umayyads fought the barbarian Visigoths, ISIS is fighting the barbarian Shia, EU is fighting the barbarian ISIS, and …….. and ……… and the beat goes on, the beat of the human heart.

          143. 4 out 5 territories left by Ghenghiz khan convert to islam.Many of Ghengiz descends convert to Islam.And this new convert invade Russian for many centuries.

          144. 5thDrawer Avatar

            Didn’t stop them from killing each other, did it?

          145. It is the past way to unite people,war to be a great empire..All nation do that at that times,including crusade and the west,Chines king,even Indians kings.

          146. you think..why they are having such great armies and weapons..to defend themselves.no.for being a wolf..to bite and rob others and oppressing others.I just told you the. West is a wolf.Your picture prove my statement.Peace.They are muslims..or Hindus ?

          147. sweetvirgo Avatar

            ISIS is no army….trust and believe they are pure evil. In the end you will see who will be standing and who will fall.

          148. 5thDrawer Avatar

            I think the birds are ‘A-Political’. 😉

          149. why such great armies and weapons at the hand of westrn power..To defend themselves..no..to invade..to be great..to killing..robbing and oppressing.As i said the west are wolves.They are nothing to do with religion.As some muslims have done.There are also many wars muslims vs muslims.That why Christian can,t blame religion of islam on their wars.

          150. Zabada, every government including the west are wolves, Mankind himself has every tendencies to be as you say wolf, false religion is a mass manufacturer that produces wolves, it is only when you become peaceful, humble and kind to others regardless of whether they are your own nationality or sect that you have a chance of being in the light of God. once you realize what God expects of you to have his favor it is a never ending humbeling experience due to the fact that the standard is so high that you keep falling short an feeling badly about it. what I see is nothing but arrogance and self righteouisness taking place in spirit and personality of the killers on ALL sides, totally indicative of Gods spirit being absent, do your self a favor and DONT LOWER YOUR SPIRITUAL STANDARD TO THAT OF ISIS, STOP DEFENDING THEM AND MAKING LIGHT OF THEIR DISGUSTING DEEDS.

          151. why they are preparing such great armies and weapons..to defend themselves..no..to invade..to rob..to kill..to oppress.who are weak..that why I said the west are wolf.

      4. Scott Sinnock Avatar
        Scott Sinnock

        Apparently your God also does not teach about love or forgiveness, for you show such hate to call another human being such hateful terms as animal, barbarian and pointing out their barbarian acts of killing. You also worship a vengeful Yahweh I would guess in common with some of your Muslim brethren.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Man, Scott … you are REALLY late in the ‘conversations’ here. :-)))))))
          (gotta go chop wood … have fun …)

          1. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            Yeah, I know, but this one is current. Seemed to be an interesting topic that zabada raised (and raises), the possibility, just possibility mind you, totally hypothetical of course, from a harmless philosophy perspective perhaps, that ISIS might, just might have some, perhaps small, very small reason for doing what it does. A shocking possibility is it not? especially for such evil people. Yahweh gave us vengeance at about the same time the Persian, Zoroaster, gave us evil upon which to direct our vengeance. Many still worship both, it seems.

          2. You study ibnu rusd..i find some of his words… “Anyone who studies anatomy will increase his faith in the omnipotence and oneness of God the Almighty”. He believed that true happiness for man can surely be achieved through mental and psychological health, and people cannot enjoy psychological health unless they follow ways that lead to happiness in the hereafter, and unless they believe in God and His oneness.

      5. you are still a kid… by your word.

        1. Yes I am, they say kids think better than adults as they say it as it is. So what your saying is these animals using God to do what ever it is they do is OK. These clowns to me are a gang robbing banks and so on to do what ever they do. What do you think IS end game is about please in lighten this kid. Please.

          1. your side not rob….Assad and Syiah even worse..i know their history..that why i said you are still a kid..only your side are devout people..all of them are devout people…..?you are kid.many in here are still a kid.Go and play football or something.suit to you.Let them engage in war.God will judge them.Not us.

          2. Who said I support Syria or Assad or even America or Iran or any shit you support. This is why u are a bigger kid because you judge one that u do not know. I play football you should play with a doll. I support no one unlike you who follow someone. I follow and live by the life of the owner of all hearts and people , JESUS and no one else. So who is playing with little kids toys now. Lol

  3. Shirdel2142 Avatar

    I.S hates all,doesn’t matter if its shia,sunni or kurd,if they have a head then the I.S will chop it off.

  4. 5thDrawer Avatar

    By this time, they are ALL nut-bars and shell-shocked brains … down to the youngest.
    There can only be some belief in ‘a God’, to keep a spirit in any ‘alive’ sense, no matter that godliness never quite shows; and the end results of not ever wanting ‘States’ controlled by secular heads under the banner of ‘ONE’ country keeps the stinking corpses flowing into the ground.
    The Tribalism Lives On.
    Easy to say that The Kurds are the best of a bad bunch. Yet they are not quite ‘solid’ either.
    In all cases, including ISIS, the end result is there is no ‘production’ of the things which human societies require on a regular basis to survive. Food, water, shelter. And ISIS seems to know it, because as it advertises widely for people with some knowledge to ‘join’, it increasingly can only rely on what it steals and ‘taxes’ others with – that ‘great fear’ of Death which it promotes best.
    All the Tribes will suffer the same as they split and divide and kill off or chase away a population of working people – emulating Syria in that, even as they fight over it. And who but an idiot would think that one could ‘return’ to such a landscape or a home, and pick up a previous life to carry on with??
    LAST year, 50 million refugees in the world. THIS year 60 million.
    Soon enough, those millions will simply fade away into the bloody land.
    The guys with guns don’t drop those to pick up shovels for burials. Or to grow food.

  5. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar

    arent the kurds sunnis as well?

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      They think ‘Kurdistan’ first, before ‘Muslim’. A really different Tribe. 😉

      1. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar

        as an iranian kurd i think of myself iranian before kurd…

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Because you were born in Iran. The guys born north or west of you think other.
          Born in Lebanon should think ‘Lebanese’.

          1. TheUSequalsTheIS Avatar

            i actually know some kurds north or west of me who wud like to rejoin iran 😉

  6. $89733098 Avatar

    “He added, “One of the main conditions for dialogue with Abadi is the trial of Maliki
    along with his complete political system, as well as its security,
    military and political leaders in all of Anbar, in addition to every
    individual who had anything to do with Maliki’s war against Anbar.
    Sunnis must be granted all the rights they were demanding during the
    protests that took place before the military operations. … If Abadi
    makes the initiative showing his goodwill, the military council will
    also show its goodwill through its own initiative.”

    Political analyst Ali Ismail Dalimi who lives in Anbar province told
    Al-Monitor, “Sunnis do not see a solution to their crises in replacing
    Maliki with a new prime minister. … The Sunnis are a group of
    tribal sheikhs, rebels and citizens who are determined to start
    restructuring the political process. If the constitution is not
    rewritten from scratch, the Sunnis will never stop their revolution.””


    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      Re-writing is what they should ALL be doing … it’s Lebanon’s problem too.
      But Religionists won’t allow it.

  7. As long as there is no strong Iraqi army that is in control ,as long as there is no strong united government that represents all the groups,the various militant militias will continue to fight each other and will continue to commit atrocities and the chaos will continue!!!!!

  8. Scott Sinnock Avatar
    Scott Sinnock

    Yes Ibn Rush’d, I used his Latin name, Averroes. He wrote in Spain under the last Caliphate there in the 1100’s. Very wise man.

    1. may be he is a saint of god..waliyullah in arabic.God open their mind to know god.Sufis says,Know god,by god him self..that means we can,t know god with our knowledge by reading and thinking only .we need god,s guide us to know him.But i m reading on sufis on this subject,.and I can see…read ibnu Arabi on this.it is make senses.He is a great saint.

    2. I guess you a prof in philosophy.

      1. Scott Sinnock Avatar
        Scott Sinnock

        no, just a wandering geologist with rocks in my head, wandering here far afield with my training.

        1. Hear to Dr.Gerald Dirk on you tube.He is a great bible scholar who convert to islam.On Bert Ehrman a christian who turn to agnostic.Agnostic is believe in god,but not convert to any religion.You need to read Quran and,Bible.Our prophet said some of Bible verses are true from god him self,some corrupted.Bible is true before.After 2,000 years many writers corrupted that holy book.Paulus ,who are a jew corrupted the true teaching of Moses and Jesus (both is muslims prophet too) The truth Jew have too many atrocities in here.The truth Christian culture and believe today is Paulus doctrine,not Jesus and moses teaching any more.I m not hating them,I only oppose them.and stay away from their believe..Judaism is nothing to do with Solaiman,the prophet teaching any more.They are belong to Zionist,political religion….Hear to Maurice Bucille too.He is a great scholar.Peace.

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Gives one time to think … bonus, quiet places to do it in.

    3. talking a bout god make more sense and peace than politic.

    4. I take a short view on your believe.It is an ancient believe can,t fit humanity at all.Fit at the times only,at the past.These people who belong to the past standard are not acknowledge true god.They are belong to their cultures and ancient believe,not a religion.There are no prophets there in Greece,Carthage.and ect.Plato,Socrates and philosophers in the places is only a thinkers,a great thinkers.Even so,God favors them knowledge,,God favors to all mankind..their brains,minds,sense,food,air,wind,water,soil,family and all.He favors to all his creatures,including animals, too many things and can,t be counted,impossible to be count by us,it is too many.All prophet sent by god is in middle east and Egypt..since Arabs are too fierce and ignorant at the time,at the past.God seem to eradicate Arabs first before others.Our Prophet said.”.I m Arab ,but my heart is non Arab,s heart”.That means Arab,s heart is bad at that time..At western empire like Carthage,Greece god is not going to punish them for not convert to his religion,since god not sent them any prophet.Some Prophets is Jews.Jews is also Arab ancestry.The prophet ya,acob have 12 sons.One of them is Yahuda.Sons of yahuda and his ancestry became Jews.At the past god only sent prophet to eradicate only specific tribe.Jews than turned to corrupted people,even before god praise them,at the times they are devout people,long a go..Now god left them along with their bad behave.Otherwise the prophet Muhammad pbuh sent to all people and he ,Muhammad admit all holy books before,Torah,Injil (Bible),Psalms at the past.The new one Quran is a priority now to lead people to god,since all the three are too old and it is not authentic any more,fit to its age.It is a law from god himself,if there is new prophet,all the teaching before erase of.The new one is an obligation to be read and practice.It is an obligation to all nation to accept the teaching of Quran and the prophet Muhammad.If the teaching of islam is reaching them and they are oppose islam and its teaching,they will be burnt by god forever in hell fire forever,since islam is reaching them clearly.There are an aboriginals who know nothing,live deeply in jungle,never heard islam,they are not punished by god in hell fire.If I not telling you this,you will ask me at here after,why I not tell you.So I tell you the whole situation and you can,t claim me at here after.I tell because you seem a kind heart person.not accuse us badly,not insult and not blame.Let who are having bad big mouth on islam and our Allah and our Prophet Muhammad pbuh,crawling in hell fire forever,and we and God will not having a little bit of sympathize on these kind of people,…bad big mouth people.But I m too sad if you are burnt there forever.So save your self from hell fire and make me happy.

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar

        “There are no prophet there in Greece ….”
        OH Zabada … Pardonnez-moi !!!!

    5. 5thDrawer Avatar

      Every philosopher must build on, or find a way to refute, the works of previous philosophers. Ultimately, the collected works must at least be read OR described by later philosophers – or those who are making an analysis of said thoughts by new searchers – as in ‘the reason’.
      Try THIS one for some brain-bending on Averroes ….

  9. Scott Sinnock Avatar
    Scott Sinnock

    No idols. I think that’s good advise. Idols distract. I also think that is what Moses and Jesus recommended too, Epictetus said, “If you must, but useless for persuading God”, Chung Tzu just smiled, Sun Tzu built factories to churn out idols to lure the masses to your side, whichever side, he didn’t care. Sorry for the Chinese references, but I think they too have a lot to teach us.

    1. Moses and Jesus is also muslims prophet.Jesus is not a god or son of god,as Christian said.Paulus, a jew who turned Jesus and Moses teaching to a cult.He distorted too many verses.There are too many contradiction verses in bible.It is a prove bible was corrupted by many writers.You can hear to Bert Ehrman on this.I m not bible scholars..you can hear to Dr.Gerald Dirk a former Church minister in America,a Havard university scholar,who convert to Islam.Both are great bible scholars.

      1. Scott Sinnock Avatar
        Scott Sinnock

        I only read the “red” words, I don’t need Paul, Timothy or John to interpret them for me. I have a pretty good handle on English already. You also say in another comment “So save your self from hell fire and make me happy.”. I hope I have, though that is (was) not my intent, my intent is to live another eternal instant so I can thank God, Allah, randomness, Satan, or the Fates that gave me life with which I can think about, curse, and praise such things as religion, life, food, and shelter. Thanks, Allah.

        1. I will not force you to do what you are dislike.I m only give some clue on true god,true religion.Your mind is fit to study religion comparison.I guess you better study that beside your philosophy research.

          1. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            I thank you Zabada for your concern and suggestion. You and 5th have taught this old student. Thank you for the respectful discussion. Respect is rare on these comment forums. Peace be with you, (if that is how it is said), which I think wonderful greeting and parting thoughts.

          2. No..you read more books than me.

        2. I m only sided with isis only on their theology and religion,since we are sunni muslims..I don,t know what they have done in politic.I guess at their situation,they have no choice.I guess they can,t live beside Syiah,an oppressing political religion, created by Persians for their lust 1000 years a go.Otherwise Syiah not curse and feud with non muslim,they are cursing and feuding only on Sunni in order to gain more followers and gain more politic and territories.Their lead to their political purpose,not religion anymore .In this case,Sunni will oppose Syiah in order to protect the true teaching of Islam,which before ,even now is exist only in Sunni side.Sunni can,t let them to corrupted this religion.That why Sunni and Syiah can,t live side by side.Wars among Syiah and Sunni started after Persians created this new fake religion,long years a go.They engage in hundred of wars before for their interest.

          1. Scott Sinnock Avatar
            Scott Sinnock

            You say, “They engage in hundred of wars”. Alas, we all do, that is the history of the human race, peace at home won by wars at the barbarian borders. We all do, Zabada. Do we have any reason to believe that will ever change? Caesar will always fight to preserve his wealth. But your prophet, Jesus, Buddha, Jonathan Swift, and perhaps even Neitzche offered a suggestion that perhaps one can escape that rat race, not by changing it but by accepting it. That platter of freedom, freedom Ibn Rush’d refers to as theoretical understanding, is available to all, even condemned prisoners (Dante to exile, Jesus, Boethius and Socrates to death). Most wars are fought to stop other people from fighting wars, a cycle I see as never ending, so let them be, sit back and enjoy the show, “a tale full of sound and fury — signifying nothing” (Macbeth) being brought to us live and in color by our friends at CNN, Fox, Random House, NY Times, Al Jazeera, YaLibnan, Obama, Romney, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc. among the many other shouting voices saying, “Listen to me.” I do.

            Is the escape an illusion? Perhaps, but what better illusion to have?

          2. You read many books.I can,t defeat you on that,I know all the names , but i not read all of their books.The best work is to find God,,true God,,true believe..in order to save our selves not only in here but at here after too.Peace.

          3. A little advice from a brother; get off your high horse. You are doing more damage to your faith than you realize it.

          4. kah..kah..kah..damge is made by America.Read on my comments.

          5. you can judge that clearly at here after..not now.You know nothing.

          6. When I die..Poem by Rumi
            when my coffin
            is being taken out
            you must never think
            I am missing this world

            don’t shed any tears
            don’t lament or feel sorry
            I’m not falling
            into a monster’s abyss

            when you see
            my corpse is being carried
            don’t cry for my leaving
            I’m not leaving
            I’m arriving at eternal love

            when you leave me
            in the grave
            don’t say goodbye
            remember a grave is
            only a curtain
            for the paradise behind

            you’ll only see me
            descending into a grave
            now watch me rise
            how can there be an end
            when the sun sets or
            the moon goes down

            it looks like the end
            it seems like a sunset
            but in reality it is a dawn
            when the grave locks you up
            that is when your soul is freed

            Have you ever seen
            a seed fallen to earth
            not rise with a new life
            why should you doubt the rise
            of a seed named human

            have you ever seen
            a bucket lowered into a well
            coming back empty
            why lament for a soul
            when it can come back
            like Joseph from the well

            when for the last time
            you close your mouth
            your words and soul
            will belong to the world of
            no place no time

          7. By Rumi on God….
            “Study me as much as you like, you will not know me, for I differ in a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see.”

          8. You study ibnu Rusd..i find some of his words… “Anyone who studies anatomy will increase his faith in the omnipotence and oneness of God the Almighty”. He believed that true happiness for man can surely be achieved through mental and psychological health, and people cannot enjoy psychological health unless they follow ways that lead to happiness in the hereafter, and unless they believe in God and His oneness.

    2. 5thDrawer Avatar

      So Scott … We can note the wide differences of applications of philosophies – which at a ‘base’ are not so dissimilar. Social structure was the key need when humans began to ask ‘why’? 😉 I guess Sun Tzu simply said: ‘Why not.’ :-)))

      1. Scott Sinnock Avatar
        Scott Sinnock

        You probably know Sun (Xong) Tzu wrote Machiavelli’s Prince, 1500 years before Machiavelli did. They both just wanted stable, peaceful societies, but recognized that does not always, perhaps rarely or never occurs.

    3. the truth a bout their God, they marked as spam..most people are too bad.As I say most people are wolves.

    4. By Rumi on God….
      “Study me as much as you like, you will not know me, for I differ in a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see.”Rumi also said God is hiding himself.That is not differ for word by sufis,who said..I know God by God him self.,,God is an eye opener to all sufis.

  10. when you mixed sugar in water and boiling it..where is that sugar..it is in water..you can taste it with your mouth but you can,t see.Likely to god, it is a spirit of universe and creatures….like sugar in water…with that sugar all creatures came to exist and live ..you can,t see him but you can know and taste him with your senses.and he is almighty and he see and hear you always and know your bad and your good.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      At some point, there’s too much of a good thing … the sugar refuses to dissolve or the water boils away, and all you have is a hard candy that sucks the life out of your teeth. That’s when I will say: ‘Bite Me’.

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