Ya Libnan

Hezbollah throws a monkey wrench into cabinet formation

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raad defHezbollah’s parliament bloc leader Mohammad Raad threw another monkey wrench into cabinet formation process when he demanded on Monday that the his party insists on its right to representation inside the upcoming cabinet based on its size inside the parliament.

“What we are calling for is our right. We want to be represented inside the cabinet proportionally to our size inside the parliament,” Raad said during an Iftar dinner on Sunday.

“Hezbollah is not imposing conditions to form a cabinet… but at the same time it clings to its right, which is guaranteed by the Lebanese constitution,” he said.

Raad accused the March 14 coalition of imposing impossible conditions on the cabinet formation.

“Those who are imposing conditions are the parties that do not accept our participation inside the cabinet or are setting limits for the size of our participation,” he said.

Raad’s comment will make it impossible for PM Designate Tammam Salam to form a cabinet, since Hezbollah ally MP Michel Aoun is also insiting on proportional representation in the cabinet .

Salam is sticking to his proposal that calls for a 24-member cabinet, in which the March 8 , March 14 and the centrists would get 8 ministers each. But the centrists have few parliament members and if the proportional representation rule is applied they will not be able to get more than a couple of seats in the cabinet . The centrist bloc is composed of president Michel Suleiman, who is not represented by any MPs , Tammam Salam who was elected by March 14 voters in 2009 and does not have any parliament bloc and PSP leader MP Walid Jumblatt who defected from March 14 following the the 2009 elections and has a parliament bloc of about 7 MPs out of 128.

While some March 14 leaders are calling for a cabinet without Hezbollah ( because its role in the Syrian civil war contradicts Lebanon disassociation policy ) Jumblatt is insisting on including the militant group in the cabinet

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Comments

73 responses to “Hezbollah throws a monkey wrench into cabinet formation”

  1. Hannibal Avatar
    Hannibal

    What did you expect a monkey to throw?

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      4 years of throwing it too … still not hitting the nuts right. 😉

      1. libnan1 Avatar
        libnan1

        Stay out of hitting the nuts business:) The beach was awesome last wkend.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          As long as you were not inhaling the water, Libnan … hehehehe 😉
          And yah … the ‘blue balls’ have nothing on Al-Rifai – take some with you. :-))))

        2. cook Avatar
          cook

          Dyou have jellyfish now in Lebanon’s beaches ? we have plenty of them um , down south 😉

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            You saw what the water did to the fish in Sidon … Between Israelis cutting off power to Gaza’s water-treatment plant, the building of Sidon’s Mountain, and the general flow from MOST countries around the MED, I’m surprised there is any life at all … jellyfish MUST be survivors. 😉

          2. cook Avatar
            cook

            lol they sting even if theyre dead , so its a lose-lose situation 😉
            Beach is Haifa is ok but more North in Akko the water is soo polluted yuck

    2. wargame1 Avatar
      wargame1

      A banana peel after gobbling up the banana and let people slip and fall.

  2. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    We admit YOU are a good size Raaaaad ….. but remember, you only got 2 seats. !!!! Fathead.

  3. man-o-war Avatar
    man-o-war

    Stupid constitution! Gets in the way of everything.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Problem is, Man-O, they can’t get anyone to ‘confess’ that point. 🙁

  4. man-o-war Avatar
    man-o-war

    Stupid constitution! Gets in the way of everything.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Problem is, Man-O, they can’t get anyone to ‘confess’ that point. 🙁

  5. libnan1 Avatar
    libnan1

    Stay out of hitting the nuts business:) The beach was awesome last wkend.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      As long as you were not inhaling the water, Libnan … hehehehe 😉
      And yah … the ‘blue balls’ have nothing on AlFifai – take some with you. :-))))

    2. cook2half Avatar
      cook2half

      Dyou have jellyfish now in Lebanon’s beaches ? we have plenty of them um , down south 😉

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        You saw what the water did to the fish in Sidon … Between Israelis cutting off power to Gaza’s water-treatment plant, the building of Sidon’s Mountain, and the general flow from MOST countries around the MED, I’m surprised there is any life at all … jellyfish MUST be survivors. 😉

        1. cook2half Avatar
          cook2half

          lol they sting even if theyre dead , so its a lose-lose situation 😉
          Beach is Haifa is ok but more North in Akko the water is soo polluted yuck

  6. The real lebanese Avatar
    The real lebanese

    Is it just me or does HA need a new parliament bloc leader. This guys face is so ugly it gives me nightmares.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      In younger days, ‘The Interrogator’. Eewwww …

    2. nagy_michael2 Avatar
      nagy_michael2

      well don’t you get it. He is the Monkey wrench lol.

  7. The real lebanese Avatar
    The real lebanese

    Is it just me or does HA need a new parliament bloc leader. This guys face is so ugly it gives me nightmares.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      In younger days, ‘The Interrogator’. Eewwww …

    2. nagy_michael2 Avatar
      nagy_michael2

      well don’t you get it. He is the Monkey wrench lol.

  8. wargame1 Avatar
    wargame1

    A banana peel after gobbling up the banana and let people slip and fall.

  9. cook Avatar
    cook

    LMAOOO what an ugly bastard , Satan himself is probably offended with the term ‘hezboshaytan”‘

  10. cook2half Avatar
    cook2half

    LMAOOO he looks like a demented monkey , Satan himself is probably offended with the term ‘hezboshaytan”‘

  11. Hesperian Avatar
    Hesperian

    Iranians do not deserve to be in the lebanese government

  12. Hesperian Avatar
    Hesperian

    Iranians do not deserve to be in the lebanese government

  13. Alistair Avatar
    Alistair

    This monkey has a brain the size of a peanut……Get your teeth fixed up loser!

  14. Alistair Avatar
    Alistair

    This monkey has a brain the size of a peanut……Get your teeth fixed up loser!

  15. cook Avatar
    cook

    @5thDrawer:disqus @TheRealLebanese:disqus @wargame1:disqus

    http://www.mcclatchydc.COM/2013/07/15/196755/lebanese-officials-say-cia-warned.html#.UeUPH9Kmjko

    what the hell is this about ? first the Americans point fingers at Israel for the Latakia bombing , and now they collaborate with Hezbollah which they blacklisted as terrorists ??

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Hi Cookie. And how did YOU manage to get a full ‘link’ into here? I don’t seem to be able to.
      Anyway …. interesting.
      “when civilian lives might be at risk would be a normal procedure, people familiar with CIA procedures said.”
      And I guess it’s that Christian ‘thing’ working again … BOMBING is not nice. Anywhere.
      You will recall, the one which got Hariri left cracked buildings, a huge crater in a street, killed 22 and injured 200 !! No-body likes bombers.
      But, as much as people like to think ‘the west’ causes everything … ahem, ahem … and even if not happy knowing Hezzys, they would WARN a GOVernment of a country given enough time. Killing, and maiming for life, innocent people on a street is NOT wanted.
      AND USA IS FRIENDS WITH LEBANON. Even if ‘some’ Leb idiots hate it.

      And I’ll add a tag-line on that thought. You don’t need to especially like someone to do good business with them. If you dislike them enough, then don’t do any business. But SOME people seem to be incapable of knowing the difference between dislike and hate.
      OR is the ‘hate’ for another reason ??
      There are as many stupid Americans as there are stupids anywhere. But generally they try to be nice – even in business sometimes. Is it only because they seem to be another ‘religion’?
      Maybe I can’t answer your question, Cookie.

      1. cook Avatar
        cook

        Thanks for the reply . Im not debating the ethics behind the CIA’s act , its not about the concept of ‘right and wrong’. Rationality and familiarity with legal terms is the only thing one should think of when analysing current events; and for this reason I despise those who , for example , support the palestinians only because they pity them and try to sound politically correct

        The unusual warning – U.S. government officials are barred from directly contacting Hezbollah … was passed from the CIA’s Beirut station chief to several Lebanese security … with the understanding that it would be passed to Hezbollah, Lebanese officials said. Hezbollah officials acknowledged the warning and took steps to tighten security in the southern suburbs that are known locally as Dahiya. “Yes, a warning came from the CIA,” said a Hezbollah internal security commander … “They passed us this information through the mukhabarat…”

        So it was , sort of , helping Hezbollah . Why would the Sunni radicals want to harm any other part of Lebanon anyway , they have so many supporters there in regards to Syria .

        By legal definition , blacklisting a group as terrorists automatically means that any form of communication with that group is banned . In fact the reason the EU only want to blacklist the “military wing” of Hezbollah as terrorists is so they can still talk to the political wing , seeing as blacklisting Hezbollah as a whole (what the U.S. did couple decades ago) means no communication at all . So that is why I find this strange .

        Just think of it this way – wouldn’t you find it strange if the CIA contacted Al Qaeda warning them of an attack by Hezbollah ?

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Half the problems in the world are because people think ‘legal’ instead of ‘nice’.
          A Corollary to the ‘Zimmerman Effect®’ … legal is ‘right’.

          I have friends literally starving in Tripoli right now … because they are NOT refugees, and ARE also Christians … and to me THAT is an epic story about ‘legal’. ‘Legal’ is the main reason they are in trouble in the first place.
          And there seems to be no ‘nice’ at all. !! 🙁

          1. cook Avatar
            cook

            On CNN I just posted how palestinian “refugees” shouldnt be getting funding at all (well technically by law they shouldnt be called refugees , but I guess lawmakers decided they are) and instead the money should go to Syrian refugees who struggle for real. So I guess I do bring ethics to it to an extent.

            Basically , with internal matters of a country im extremely left winged . But with foreign policy and international relations im extremely right winged .

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            So you can see how bad it is for Lebanese … generationally REAL Lebanese … with no ‘label’ at all to help them get any ‘aid’.

          3. cook Avatar
            cook

            Yup . Aid in general these days has a lot to do with political and tactical reasons , I dont think those who have a label are cared for in a direct way either (speaking generally, dont know about Lebanon) .

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            The ‘direct’ … Get registered, get a ticket, hand it in at a window in exchange for food or other needed minimal supplies for survival based on a UN-described formula for average nutritional and other needs in any particular part of the world.
            Lebanese can’t register … in Lebanon.

          5. cook Avatar
            cook

            Are you Lebanese ?

          6. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Only have ONE passport … and it’s not Lebanon’s. So … no.
            There’s your ‘legal’. 😉

          7. cook Avatar
            cook

            🙂

          8. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            “technically by law they shouldn’t be called refugees”, can you explain this technicality?

          9. cook Avatar
            cook

            Sure. 700,000 palestinians fled or were forced out of their homes in the 1948 War of Independence, yet most of them weren’t “refugees” in the traditional sense of the word; they moved from one part of their country to another. They were, in a sense, internal refugees.

            By legal definition, a refugee is simply someone who is forced to leave their home because of conflict (for example the Syrian refugees of today). It is NOT the great-grandchild of someone who was forced to leave their home. Of the five million or so “refugees” alive today, only around 30,000 of them were actually alive at the time of Israel’s creation and the birth of the refugee problem.

            My great grandfather was exiled from Russia , does that mean im a Russian refugee? of course not.

          10. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            Thanks for the explanation. I guess that explains the treatment of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Lebanon. If they deny them citizenship and keep them in an almost refugee status then they can’t be described any other way than refugees. Do you think that the Palestinians that want to come and live where their grandparents lived should be allowed to? Israel has created a country on the basis that they once lived there thousands of years ago. They also have birthright organizations that bring in Jews from around the world to experience their ancestral lands. Automatic citizenships for just being Jewish. The Palestinians should start similar programs and give all Palestinians automatic citizenship. Not sure how that would play out. I know Israel is against the right of return for people of Palestinian origin, but they are not against the right of return for people of Jewish origin.

            Was your grandfather a Jew that was exiled from Russia?

          11. cook Avatar
            cook

            Its basically the biased organization UNRWA that keeps justifying these people to be “refugees”, but yes definitely the Arab governments have used the palestinian arabs as tools to keep the fight against Israel . The whole thing is PATHETIC because after the Second World War , there were more than 100 million refugees all around Europe, and yet the palestinians are the only only people who for some reason have this special refugee title attached to them .

            850,000 Jews were kicked out of their homes from Arabic countries in 1948 , if anyone should complain its the Jews . The reason why you never ever hear about them is simply because Israel quickly absorbed them and recognized them as citizens of Israel, and even encouraged more Jews to come to Israel later (for example after the Islamic Revolution in 1979 thousands of Iranian Jews came to Israel – there are now 300,000 Iranians in Israel). Now imagine if the Arabs recognized their own refugees , the conflict would be half over!
            Giving the arabs right of return and a state , as logical as it might sound , is exactly like saying the Jews should have a two-state solution in Iraq simply because 150,000 Iraqi Jews 65 years ago were kicked out of their homes .

            The people who created Israel were all secular or non-religious Jews, most of them simply were fleeing persecution in Europe . But you are correct others came specifically to the Middle East and bought land from the Ottoman Empire for religious reasons. However , what you should know is more arabs immigrated to the region of Palestine (palestine means Israel, Jordan and Southern Syria) than Jews did . This was because of the well developed economy which the Jews worked on. And since the agreements of Sykes-Pikot (1916) and San Remo (1920) invented all these arab countries you see today , the arabs should be the last people to accuse Israel of being invented . Im not a Jew , my family were muslims but later converted.

          12. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            There is a lot that can be argued in what you wrote here, but I will leave that to others with more time.

            The situation in Palestine was and is a unique situation. That is why they gave it special attention.

            The people who created Israel were secular? They had a vision of gathering all the Jews from around the world and bringing them to the Jewish state of Israel. How is that secular? What exactly is a non-religious Jew? Does that mean a non-observant Jew?

            Israel accepted all the exiled Jews because they were trying to create a Jewish homeland, so it actually worked in their favor. Very different from the Arab countries not wanting to assimilate the Palestinians. Lebanon for example is a very religiously diverse country and absorbing a 500,000-1,000,000 Palestinians would have disrupted the balance power. The Jewish people share the same religion, traditions, and values. Arabs are not all the same, contrary to what you might think. They are very different from one region to the next.

            “Giving the arabs right of return and a state , as logical as it might sound , is exactly like saying the Jews should have a two-state solution in Iraq simply because 150,000 Iraqi Jews 65 years ago were kicked out of their homes “.

            Not the same thing at all! There around 2.7 million Palestinians living in the west bank and another ~1.5 million in gaza. How about giving them a state to live in and call their own? Then as an independent country they can decide if they want to allow the return of refugees ( or descendants). Its not an Israeli decision whether to allow Palestinians to return or not.

            How does a 2000 year old connection to the land trump a 60 year old connection?

          13. cook Avatar
            cook

            As far as I know yes many Jews were just normal and secular people who were oppressed for hundreds of years in Europe , even after the enlightenment period when laws became more liberal , society in general excluded the Jews for such diverse reasons that religion really wasnt relevant to the Europeans or even the Jews.

            The Jews did not require a connection to the land (despite having it) in order to immigrate there. The land was a part of the Ottoman Empire which during the period of the “Eastern Question” was weak, corrupt and palestine specifically was barely inhabited . Yes Arabs did live there but only as individuals , not at all as a separate identity from other arabs in the region . The Jews simply immigrated there and paid the Ottomans to buy land. They were not settling in a country of any sort, just a failing empire which later got to the hands of the British and the French , who decided to divide the Middle East into many states – and why not give a tiny state to the Jews who were becoming a majority there anyway ? Basically what I’m saying , is that until the 19th century , most people did not see themselves as nations. There were a few exceptions such as England and France, Italy etc. But in the middle east there were really no nations at all (and im not simply referring to political borders, I mean the way people defined themselves) just a mass of Muslims with some Christians and Jewish minorities. There was no “palestinian people” or “Syrian people” or “Israeli people” or “Jordanian people” to steal land from .

            So numbers are really really irrelevant . Just because there were more arabs living in palestine than Jews living in Iraq it doesnt mean that one country is more legitimate than the other . Today there are 80 million people in Egypt, and only 6 million in Libya. Does that mean Egyptians should exist and Libya should not?

            Now coming back to whats happening today , what you should know is that Israeli leaders really do want to establish a separate state for the arabs; if a Bi-National state happens then in 5-10 years time Israel as a Jewish state will be destroyed. You shouldnt look at zionism as simply Jews seeking political borders, its about a secure nation of Israel that provides the needs for a Jewish majority.
            Israel hasn’t built any new settlements in more than 20 years (though the leftist media live in their own world), when you hear of homes being built, they are only being built on EXISTING settlements, in other words these settlements grow vertically and only consist of 2% of the West Bank. So settlements have nothing to do with Israel not wanting an arab state.
            There WAS actually a period of 9 months when Israel banned all settlement building, and yet Abbas STILL refused to come and negotiate.

            Did you know that the Jews offered the palestinian arabs a state SIX TIMES in the past 65 years ? Israel offered them a state in 1948, 1967, 1979, 1993, 2000 and 2008 . Why on earth did they reject it ? both in 2000 (with Barak) and in 2008 (Ehud Olmert being PM) the palestinians were offered 94% (with lands swaps to compensate for the remaining 6%) of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its capital; why the hell did the PLO reject every single offer, hmmmmmmmmmm ?

            Also ask yourself this: between 1948 and 1967 when Jordan invaded the West Bank and Egypt invaded the Gaza Strip – why didnt the palestinians ask for a state?

          14. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I think, Man-O, if you search you will find the ‘moment’ when ‘Palestinians’ refused to become Lebanese citizens.

          15. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            You’re right . They don’t have a great history of being good house guests.

          16. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            However … I’m sure there are many similar to this:
            I did know an older Christian couple who were in love to the month they both died. She was a ‘pal-refugee’, and he Lebanese. Good for her, because then she had the rights he had as a citizen.
            It’s unfortunate that the women’s ‘rights’ cannot be worked the other way for the male of similar relationships; and why not I can’t really logically explain. It’s something about the illogic of religion.
            And yes, the Jews suffer from it too. 🙂

    2. The real lebanese Avatar
      The real lebanese

      We may never know with the Obama administration. They talk like they support the rebels but in reality, their buying time for Iran to become nuclear. And we will probably not see american weapons in the hands of the FSA anytime soon.

  16. cook2half Avatar
    cook2half

    @5thDrawer:disqus @TheRealLebanese:disqus @wargame1:disqus

    http://www.mcclatchydc.COM/2013/07/15/196755/lebanese-officials-say-cia-warned.html#.UeUPH9Kmjko

    what the hell is this about ? first the Americans point fingers at Israel for the Latakia bombing , and now they collaborate with Hezbollah which they blacklisted as terrorists ??

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Hi Cookie. And how did YOU manage to get a full ‘link’ into here? I don’t seem to be able to.
      Anyway …. interesting.
      “when civilian lives might be at risk would be a normal procedure, people familiar with CIA procedures said.”
      And I guess it’s that Christian ‘thing’ working again … BOMBING is not nice. Anywhere.
      You will recall, the one which got Hariri left cracked buildings, a huge crater in a street, killed 22 and injured 200 !! No-body likes bombers.
      But, as much as people like to think ‘the west’ causes everything … ahem, ahem … and even if not happy knowing Hezzys, they would WARN a GOVernment of a country given enough time. Killing, and maiming for life, innocent people on a street is NOT wanted.
      AND USA IS FRIENDS WITH LEBANON. Even if ‘some’ Leb idiots hate it.

      1. cook2half Avatar
        cook2half

        Hey thanks for the reply .

        Im not debating the ethics behind this act – when it comes to debating law and international relations , the last thing I think of is morality , or the concept of ‘right and wrong’ . Rationality and familiarity with legal terms is the only thing one should think of when analysing current events; and for this reason I despise those who , for example , support the palestinians only because they pity them and try to sound politically correct

        The unusual warning – U.S. government officials are barred from directly contacting Hezbollah, which the U.S. has designated an international terrorist organization – was passed from the CIA’s Beirut station chief to several Lebanese security … with the understanding that it would be passed to Hezbollah, Lebanese officials said. Hezbollah officials acknowledged the warning and took steps to tighten security in the southern suburbs that are known locally as Dahiya.

        “Yes, a warning came from the CIA,” said a Hezbollah internal security commander who spoke on the condition that he not be identified because he was not authorized to talk to reporters. “They passed us this information through the mukhabarat…”

        So it was , sort of , passing information to Hezbollah and not Lebanon in general . In fact why would the Sunni radicals want to attack Lebanon randomly when they have quite a lot of support in regards to Syria .

        By legal definition , blacklisting a group as terrorists automatically means that any form of communication with that group is banned . In fact the reason the EU only want to blacklist the “military wing” of Hezbollah as terrorists is so they can still talk to the political wing , seeing as blacklisting Hezbollah as a whole (what the U.S. did couple decades ago) means no communication at all . So that is why I find this strange .

        Just think of it this way – wouldn’t you find it strange if the CIA contacted Al Qaeda warning them of an attack by Hezbollah ?

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Half the problems in the world are because people think ‘legal’ instead of ‘nice’.
          A Corollary to the ‘Zimmerman Effect®’ … legal is ‘right’.

          I have friends literally starving in Tripoli right now … because they are NOT refugees, and ARE also Christians … and to me THAT is an epic story about ‘legal’. ‘Legal’ is the main reason they are in trouble in the first place.
          And there seems to be no ‘nice’ at all. !! 🙁

          1. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            of course , I also question the law and lawmakers sometimes . On CNN I just posted how palestinian “refugees” shouldnt be getting funding at all (well technically by law they shouldnt be called refugees , but I guess lawmakers decided they are) and instead the money should go to Syrian refugees who struggle for real.

            Basically , with internal matters of a country im extremely left winged . But with foreign policy and international relations im extremely right winged .

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            So you can see how bad it is for Lebanese … generationally REAL Lebanese … with no ‘label’ at all to help them get any ‘aid’.

          3. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Yup . Aid in general these days has a lot to do with political and tactical reasons , I dont think those who have a label are cared for in a direct way either (speaking generally, dont know about Lebanon) .

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            The ‘direct’ … Get registered, get a ticket, hand it in at a window in exchange for food or other needed minimal supplies for survival based on a UN-described formula for average nutritional and other needs in any particular part of the world.
            Lebanese can’t register.

          5. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Are you Lebanese ? (you can edit and delete ur post in a bit if you dont want others to read it)

          6. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Only have ONE passport … and it’s not Lebanon’s. So … no.
            There’s your ‘legal’. 😉

          7. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            🙂

          8. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            “technically by law they shouldn’t be called refugees”, can you explain this technicality?

          9. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Sure. 700,000 palestinians fled or were forced out of their homes in the 1948 War of Independence, yet most of them weren’t “refugees” in the traditional sense of the word; they moved from one part of their country to another. They were, in a sense, internal refugees.

            By legal definition, a refugee is simply someone who is forced to leave their home because of conflict (for example the Syrian refugees of today). It is NOT the great-grandchild of someone who was forced to leave their home. Of the five million or so “refugees” alive today, only around 30,000 of them were actually alive at the time of Israel’s creation and the birth of the refugee problem.

            My great grandfather was exiled from Russia , does that mean im a Russian refugee? of course not.

          10. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            Thanks for the explanation. I guess that explains the treatment of Palestinians living in refugee camps in Lebanon. If they deny them citizenship and keep them in an almost refugee status then they can’t be described any other way than refugees. Do you think that the Palestinians that want to come and live where their grandparents lived should be allowed to? Israel has created a country on the basis that they once lived there thousands of years ago. They also have birthright organizations that bring in Jews from around the world to experience their ancestral lands. Automatic citizenships for just being Jewish. The Palestinians should start similar programs and give all Palestinians automatic citizenship. Not sure how that would play out. I know Israel is against the right of return for people of Palestinian origin, but they are not against the right of return for people of Jewish origin.

            Was your grandfather a Jew that was exiled from Russia?

          11. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            Its basically the biased organization UNRWA that keeps justifying these people to be “refugees”, but yes definitely the Arab governments have used the palestinian arabs as tools to keep the fight against Israel . The whole thing is PATHETIC because after the Second World War , there were more than 100 million refugees all around Europe (and God knows how many in other places like the Pacific), and yet the palestinians are the only only people who for some reason have this special refugee title attached to them .

            You know whats even more funny ? 850,000 Jews were kicked out of their homes from Arabic countries in 1948 , if anyone should complain its the Jews . The reason why you never ever hear about them is simply because Israel quickly absorbed them and recognized them as citizens of Israel, and even encouraged more Jews to come to Israel later (for example after the Islamic Revolution in 1979 thousands of Iranian Jews came to Israel – there are now 300,000 Iranians in Israel). Now imagine if the Arabs recognized their own refugees , the conflict would be half over!

            The people who created Israel were all secular or non-religious Jews, most of them simply were fleeing persecution in Europe . But you are correct others came specifically to the Middle East and bought land from the Ottoman Empire for religious reasons. However , what you should know is more arabs immigrated to the region of Palestine (palestine means Israel, Jordan and Southern Syria) than Jews did . This was because of the well developed economy which the Jews worked on. And since the agreements of Sykes-Pikot (1916) and San Remo (1920) invented all these arab countries you see today , the arabs should be the last people to accuse Israel of being invented .

            Im not a Jew , my family were muslims but later converted.

          12. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            There is a lot that can be argued in what you wrote here, but I will leave that to others with more time.

            The situation in Palestine was and is a unique situation. That is why they gave it special attention.

            The people who created Israel were secular? They had a vision of gathering all the Jews from around the world and bringing them to the Jewish state of Israel. How is that secular? What exactly is a non-religious Jew? Does that mean a non-observant Jew?

            Israel accepted all the exiled Jews because they were trying to create a Jewish homeland, so it actually worked in their favor. Very different from the Arab countries not wanting to assimilate the Palestinians. Lebanon for example is a very religiously diverse country and absorbing a 500,000-1,000,000 Palestinians would have disrupted the balance power. The Jewish people share the same religion, traditions, and values. Arabs are not all the same, contrary to what you might think. They are very different from one region to the next.

            “Giving the arabs right of return and a state , as logical as it might sound , is exactly like saying the Jews should have a two-state solution in Iraq simply because 150,000 Iraqi Jews 65 years ago were kicked out of their homes “.

            Not the same thing at all! There around 2.7 million Palestinians living in the west bank and another ~1.5 million in gaza. How about giving them a state to live in and call their own? Then as an independent country they can decide if they want to allow the return of refugees ( or descendants). Its not an Israeli decision whether to allow Palestinians to return or not.

            How does a 2000 year old connection to the land trump a 60 year old connection?

          13. cook2half Avatar
            cook2half

            As far as I know yes many Jews were just normal and secular people who were oppressed for hundreds of years in Europe , even after the enlightenment period when laws became more liberal , society in general excluded the Jews for such diverse reasons that religion really wasnt relevant to anything .

            The Jews did not require a connection to the land (despite having it). The land was a part of the Ottoman Empire which during the period of the “Eastern Question” was weak, corrupt and palestine specifically was barely inhabited . Yes Arabs did live there but only as individuals , not at all as a separate identity from other arabs in the region . The Jews simply immigrated there and paid the Ottomans to buy land. They were not settling in a country of any sort, just a failing empire which later got to the hands of the British and the French , who decided to divide the Middle East into many states – and why not give a tiny state to the Jews who were becoming a majority there anyway ? Basically what I’m saying , is that until the 19th century , most people did not see themselves as nations. There were a few exceptions such as England and France, Italy etc. But in the middle east there were really no nations at all (and im not simply referring to political borders, I mean the way people defined themselves) just a mass of Muslims with some Christians and Jewish minorities.

            So numbers are really really irrelevant . Just because there were more arabs living in palestine than Jews living in Iraq it doesnt mean that one country is legitimate is the other is not . Today there are 80 million people in Egypt, and only 6 million in Libya . Does that mean Egypt should exist and Libya should not?

            Now coming back to whats happening today , what you should know is that Israeli leaders really do want to establish a separate state for the arabs; if a Bi-National state happens then in 5-10 years time Israel as a Jewish state will be destroyed. You shouldnt look at zionism as simply Jews seeking political borders, its about a secure nation of Israel that provides the needs for a Jewish majority.
            Did you know that the Jews offered the palestinian arabs a state SIX TIMES in the past 65 years ? Israel offered them a state in 1947, 1948, 1967, 1979, 1993, 2000 and 2008 . Why on earth did they reject it ? both in 2000 (with Barak) and in 2008 (Ehud Olmert being PM) the palestinians were offered 94% f the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its capital; why the hell did the PLO reject every single offer, hmmmmmmmmmm ?

            Also ask yourself this: between 1948 and 1967 when Jordan invaded the West Bank and Egypt invaded the Gaza Strip – why didnt the palestinians ask for a state?

          14. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I think, Man-O, if you search you will find the ‘moment’ when Palestinians refused to become Lebanese citizens.

          15. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            You’re right . They don’t have a great history of being good house guests.

          16. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            However … I’m sure there are many similar to this:
            I did know an older Christian couple who were in love to the month they both died. She was a ‘pal-refugee’, and he Lebanese. Good for her, because then she had the rights he had as a citizen.
            It’s unfortunate that the women’s ‘rights’ cannot be worked the other way for the male of similar relationships; and why not I can’t really logically explain. It’s something about the illogic of religion.

    2. The real lebanese Avatar
      The real lebanese

      We may never know with the Obama administration. They talk like they support the rebels but in reality, their buying time for Iran to become nuclear. And we will probably not see american weapons in the hands of the FSA anytime soon.

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