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MP Daher calls Hezbollah enemy of democracy and freedom

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March 14 MP Khaled al-Daher who represents the Future movement in the parliament attacked Hezbollah and the cabinet of Prime Minister Najib Mikati during Thursday’s parliamentary session

He said that Hezbollah should apologize to the Sunnis of Lebanon over the 2008 events when Hezbollah gunmen occupied the western part of Beirut which is predominantly Sunni .

“[I call] on Hezbollah to apologize to the people of Beirut, particularly the Sunnis,” Daher said

Daher also slammed Mikati’s cabinet saying it was formed as a “service” to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad “at the expense of the Lebanese people’s blood.”

“[You] are the enemies of democracy and freedom. Your policies [aim] to isolate and exclude [others] with the power of arms,” Daher told the cabinet and Hezbollah

He added that he rejected holding dialogue with March 8 amid, because of the presence of Hezbollah’s arms.

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76 responses to “MP Daher calls Hezbollah enemy of democracy and freedom”

  1. plomca Avatar
    plomca

    No terrorist/criminal organization like Hezbollah would ever support democracy or freedom, unless it is in their favor. But, as long Lebanon recognizes Hezbollah as a political party, instead an terrorist organization, like U.S. and Canada has, then Lebanon will have to reap what they sow. Lebanon’s democracy will only be threaten from groups like Hezbollah and freedom will be slowly lost, which corruption and chaos will fill in the void eventually.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      True enough …. and the #1 thing against democracy is that the Koran doesn’t allow it. Every movement of a day has been plotted by Big Brother, and democracy doesn’t work in that ‘law’ which the power-brokers use, and re-use, and abuse.

      1. MeYosemite Avatar
        MeYosemite

        I agree. It is hard to separate common law from Islam. Likely these two systems conflict in social and leadership roles.

      2. Alan Hussein Avatar
        Alan Hussein

        Please provide the exact quote in the Koran where it says that! If you are smart enough to know your history, you would learn that the Islamic empire were the first to use democracy before any country in the world!!!

        Took 2 seconds to research!!

        http://www.i-epistemology.net/attachments/695_Ajiss20-1%20-%20Ahmad%20-%20Islam%20and%20Democracy%20-%20Text%20and%20Tradition%20and%20History.pdf

        http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=2930

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Do they put in practice TODAY. Sick of people talking about 10,000 years ago.  Show how they are democratic TODAY…..wow 2 sites I can find you 1000 that says other wise. Today stop living in the past……   

      3. Alan Hussein Avatar
        Alan Hussein

        Please provide the exact quote in the Koran where it says that! If you are smart enough to know your history, you would learn that the Islamic empire were the first to use democracy before any country in the world!!!

        Took 2 seconds to research!!

        http://www.i-epistemology.net/attachments/695_Ajiss20-1%20-%20Ahmad%20-%20Islam%20and%20Democracy%20-%20Text%20and%20Tradition%20and%20History.pdf

        http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=2930

      4. antar2011 Avatar
        antar2011

        oh really 5th? the Quran does not allow it? how do you know? have you become a scholar of islamic studies all of a sudden and you did not annouce it? of course not…then what you claimed here is not only baseless but also a fabricated lie…before you throw a statement like you did here from the top of your head thinking it’s the truth have you bothered to look up if what you said is really the truth or not..

        let me help you a bit here…. in a time when the entire world was in darkness under the total authority and the ultimate word of kings and wanna-be-Gods in Romans, pre-islam persia and pre-islam indian empires,  when debates about women having a soul or not was still alive, when slavehood was thriving and when the poor could only mix/marry/socialise with the poor and the rich with their kinds if they attempted to mix transsocial class, they were emprisonned if not hanged, the message of islam in the Quran recited by prophet Mohammad peace and blessings be upon him appeared…..

        the first and most important thing in the message of islam after our faith/aqeeda is “shura” or “consultation” i.e when decisions are made, islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.

        [Quran 42:38] “Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation  among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance” [are praised]

        [Quran 3:159] Thus it is due to mercy from God that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in God; surely God loves those who trust

        this shura concept is what we call ‘democracy’ in our present time.

        yet you have the audacity to post something that is not only ignorant but very arrogant of you…..you are so sure of what you wrote eh? get your facts right.

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You say “Islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
          So who do they consult with ? I am lost on that part..Do they consult with other Religions or just muslims.?

        2. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You say “Islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
          So who do they consult with ? I am lost on that part..Do they consult with other Religions or just muslims.?

        3. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          To add to master09’s question, do they ‘consult’ with ‘all the people’ outside an atmosphere of LATER ‘edict-additions’ than even ‘the prophet’ made, or ‘hadiths’ and opinions of religious ‘talking heads’ – having made sure it advanced the general well-being of the 2000-yr-later well-educated masses who are not discriminated against by blood and wealth?
          Where indeed are the words found without the hangings, imprisonments, tortures (including cutting off of various bits or stonings), slavehoods, etc. that you mention from whichever ‘dark age’ of humanity you refer to?
          I may be arrogant in some sense … but I know when I am being denied the freedom to choose.

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            you can choose whatever you like…i don’t care and i am sure also nor anyone on this blog or anywhere else for that matter cares…you can choose to live in Paradise/Hell/New Caladonia/New Delhi, who cares, you can choose to believe there is paradise or hell, it’s really up to you,….but what you can’t do is read a book or two from a non muslim/non scholar muslim or perhaps read one internet site or two that talks about islam or any other religion for that matter and analyse why is it bad/good without resorting to the mainstream scholars or thinkers of that religion and findig out what they have to say about it… that is ignorant behaviour.

            it’s like me saying oh all lebanese are hizbollah terrorists thugs because the resources i read and or distributed to me said so and that is enough to make a judgement about all lebanese. of course these resources have never been to lebanon and lived among lebanese or even worse never studied the lebanese history and culture!

            what’s arrogant is continouly diving in in your ignorant behaviour.

            your wish washing post here talking about many issues put into one sentence/question does not only reflect your confusion but reflects your brain washing concerning anything to do with religion/God/Prophets.

            look i dunno what your past religious experience has been like…i am sure you have asked lots of questions about God but i can tell from your posts that it was not a good experience..

            of course it is your right to choose to believe so.
            but just don’t throw general statements about one of the main religions in the world without really knowing anything about it except what you read from sheikh Google.

            To stress an inpotant point though that feeds the confusion and the misconceptions about any religion but especially islam and i have said it before on this blog site, many religious leaders/laymen wanabe sheikhs/scholars talk in the name of islam/any other religion but it does not mean they really know everything about islam or doing everything islam tells them to…the same goes for other pple in other religions i am sure.

        4. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          To add to master09’s question, do they ‘consult’ with ‘all the people’ outside an atmosphere of LATER ‘edict-additions’ than even ‘the prophet’ made, or ‘hadiths’ and opinions of religious ‘talking heads’ – having made sure it advanced the general well-being of the 2000-yr-later well-educated masses who are not discriminated against by blood and wealth?
          Where indeed are the words found without the hangings, imprisonments, tortures (including cutting off of various bits or stonings), slavehoods, etc. that you mention from whichever ‘dark age’ of humanity you refer to?
          I may be arrogant in some sense … but I know when I am being denied the freedom to choose.

        5. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You say “Islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
          So who do they consult with ? I am lost on that part..Do they consult with other Religions or just muslims.?

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            ya akhi, whoever i repeat whoever is effected by that decision, muslims, christians, jews, sikhs…anyone…why is it so hard to understand?

        6. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Don;t you worry Antar I have many muslim friends and let me tell you they are more than  prominent muslim scholars. Just because they are scholars that does not make them rite….Antar to prove a point you would stick it in someones face and prove them wrong. Let me answer the ? for you that came from your scholars. Apostasy in Islam is alive…Don’t you worry I know a lot I have spoken to educated people about it and other things….Ignorant yes,yes. Did I care how long it took for you to come back and reply, for all I care you don’t have to.. lol no chip of my shoulder it’s your life. I did not say that I care about your beliefs, I care little it,s your life.

          Antar when I ask a poor minded muslim a ? the only answer they can come back with is this ….change the subject………..ya akhi…..So antar have you read the bible to see the differance between both books, or would that be ignorant……

        7. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Don;t you worry Antar I have many muslim friends and let me tell you they are more than  prominent muslim scholars. Just because they are scholars that does not make them rite….Antar to prove a point you would stick it in someones face and prove them wrong. Let me answer the ? for you that came from your scholars. Apostasy in Islam is alive…Don’t you worry I know a lot I have spoken to educated people about it and other things….Ignorant yes,yes. Did I care how long it took for you to come back and reply, for all I care you don’t have to.. lol no chip of my shoulder it’s your life. I did not say that I care about your beliefs, I care little it,s your life.

          Antar when I ask a poor minded muslim a ? the only answer they can come back with is this ….change the subject………..ya akhi…..So antar have you read the bible to see the differance between both books, or would that be ignorant……

        8. Hannibal Avatar
          Hannibal

          The Quran is a plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity which are plagiarized from Egyptian and Babylonian mythology. Noah, the flood, the virgin birth and yeah do not forget flat Earth and genesis. Myth, Myth and more Myth… I believe in Santa Claus… He is jolly and brings gifts and smiles to the many kids around the world. Priceless… What did religion bring? Mayhem, destruction, murders and wars… You can have it ya akhi…. Put those books in a pan, ghliyon wu shraab mayeton… May be you will get that relief from the diarrhea your countries provide free of charge because you are too busy stooping and not too busy cleaning your water supply or providing electricity and food to the masses despite sitting on tons of money. OH I forgot you are waiting for the manna to fall from heaven like your cousins the jews lost in Sinai. 

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            as muslims we believe that the message of islam is present in the original version of previous divine books starting from the psalms of David ending in the Quran…each ‘book” adds something new depending on the time/place it was revealed to…so it’s really like each book is one brick of a completed building.

            so the Quran does not palagiarise previous ibrahemic faiths but rather it completes them. because it shares many things with them but adds new things to them.

            you ask what did religion bring….you forget to ask how did pple translate their religion…were they really saying what their religion tells them or do they act on their whims…i can almost always say the muslim pple who are doing evil things are always NOT following their religion to the bone 🙂

            if you do not like me saying akhi….that’s fine but you like it or not we are all ikhweh in humanity.

      5. master09 Avatar
        master09

        I may be arrogant in some sense … but I know when I am being denied the freedom to choose

        Can’t understand your arrogance lol, you did not know we still have cultures who still live as they did 1600 years ago, and want to force it on to the entire world…
        I asked the ????? about Apostasy do you think you get an answer….Do they consult on that too……..or is death forced on to them……..   But the answer is, it is what GOD says …..

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Well master09 … that is the crux of the problem. And I will not denigrate Antar’s concepts. From what I’ve seen, I trust he’s a good man … and I too put trust in God. After all, humans have that particular quirk of hope in something better. And one day perhaps I’ll meet Him to have a discussion about my arrogance on Earth. But I cannot believe He gave all the brains and ‘laws’ to the few mere mortals who claim to speak for Him. It is in those ‘translations’ of thoughts where the confusion lies – especially in the words ‘we’, ‘themselves’, and ‘you’. They have become reserved words for the supremes of the world – (we bestow) – not to be confused by including the rest of us – and the dark ages of history were extended by the ones not willing to share with humanity in ‘the knowledge’. Much of the early writings were left out as well, since they didn’t fit the mould of the later writer’s ‘visions’.
          But that too is history, isn’t it? And some try to bury history even today.
          Antar is right .. I’m not a ‘scholar’ of all the words in the religions … I prefer to keep it simple. We live in a natural garden in the universe. It can be our benefactor or our enemy. It may well have been begun by a wonderful God, who generously decided humans could be formed and exist on it. And in my opinion we should be figuring out how to tend the garden together. Some day, I might get to discuss with God a few of the problems, and whether or not I got the idea right.
          I am sure Mohammad has had enough peace and blessings bestowed upon him. Some others here on Earth could use it in their lifetimes. And I don’t need anyone telling me what to do each day … my parents gave me the good push, and I was was fortunate to not be chained down after that. My ‘arrogance’ does not allow a ‘supreme’ to dictate and crush the freedom of my thoughts. Or to force those thoughts on anyone else. Simple.
          But we DO have a democratic blog-site here don’t we….. 😉

        2. antar2011 Avatar
          antar2011

          saying you are or 5th is an arrogant does not mean i am forcing anything upon you.

          in the same way you do not believe in islam , i also do not believe your defense of 5th ignorant post is humble. i have a right ot believe that and you have the right to believe otherwise…i don’t want you to change that belief and i am sure you care less about what i believe. how then i am forcing you to change your belief? i don’t understand nor i want to understand!

          i am glad you used the word ‘cultures” instead of religions because by this measure, we have other religions [in your opinion] that are “older’ then 1600 yrs. but you know what, i am proud coming from that culture/religion/race and i don’t want to change anything about it…like it or not i don’t care.

          read my reply to 5th post to understand your/his arrogance.

          yes you asked a question…but did you think you wait until i read it and post an answer…i have other things to do that does not allow me to be 24/7 online readig your questions….also, i am not obliged to answer anything you ask….

          if i were you, i will do the correct/wise thing and find me someone in the community that knows a muslim and ask him to direct you to a sheikh who is highly respected in their community and go ask him whatever you like….the sheikh can’t just answer you from the top of his head, insist on him referring you to resources that came from prominent muslim scholars that everyone, around the world, and for many years, attest to in islamic knowledge.

          of course you can choose not to do that but that does not make you wise hence ignorant.

          PS you did not ask the question about Apostasy…you asked a question about Shura principles…..

      6. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Sigh ….. Dive into ‘The Oxford’ again:
        Arrogance – from the Latin Arrogare – ‘claim for oneself’.  Arrogant – ‘having an exaggerated sense of one’s own importance or abilities.’
        Well, I did not claim any importance by making a simple statement of observation … allowed, I think.
        Perhaps ‘my arrogance’ relates to what I think is ‘my ability’ to see something, which some believe to be false? Or which many do not wish to be seen?
        Antar seems to feel it relates to the question ‘about Shura principles’. Probably, in his mind then, it does.
        I made a simple ‘political’ statement. And my arrogant position – unchanged by all the resulting dialogues – is that I have observed something which I think ‘we’ could fairly say has been ‘tried to death’, but doesn’t seem to work very well. At least, not in it’s use in the recent millennia … or especially in the few past decades. In fact, I think a mass of humanity has not benefitted at all by trying to keep it going as a ‘principal philosophy’ of societal law, and instead suffers under it.

        Philosophy: from the Greek ‘philosophia’ … ‘Love of wisdom’. (Hope I don’t seem arrogant for quoting  😉
        Where is the wisdom? Explain to me the wisdom of trying to adhere to a ‘system’ which, though there have been vast changes in human experience on the planet, and relations between the various cultures on it have improved greatly in many cases, still attempts to ignore the good of those changes and regulate harshly those who try to advance their experiences of all life.

        I WILL be arrogant in choosing democracy over autocracy. If God gave us a brain to use, and over the span of human history we have improved both it and our sense of a place in the universe, small as it might be, I will refuse to allow anyone to keep my own expanded experience going.
        God may determine when that will stop – but I won’t. And I won’t allow any man to tell me I must stop.
        I CAN see that some things humans do should be considered un-godly. Forcing a way of thinking, in my opinion, is one of them. A wider factual education cannot be considered un-godly, and when it frees people’s minds to see that they can make godly choices – without harming themselves or others or the planet – then perhaps politics along with books on ‘lifestyle-law’ will also gradually go away.
        Oh well … thoughts on ‘enlightenment’, eh Antar? 🙂
        For now, based on what I have seen, I stand on my statement.

  2. plomca Avatar
    plomca

    No terrorist/criminal organization like Hezbollah would ever support democracy or freedom, unless it is in their favor. But, as long Lebanon recognizes Hezbollah as a political party, instead an terrorist organization, like U.S. and Canada has, then Lebanon will have to reap what they sow. Lebanon’s democracy will only be threaten from groups like Hezbollah and freedom will be slowly lost, which corruption and chaos will fill in the void eventually.

  3. plomca Avatar
    plomca

    No terrorist/criminal organization like Hezbollah would ever support democracy or freedom, unless it is in their favor. But, as long Lebanon recognizes Hezbollah as a political party, instead an terrorist organization, like U.S. and Canada has, then Lebanon will have to reap what they sow. Lebanon’s democracy will only be threaten from groups like Hezbollah and freedom will be slowly lost, which corruption and chaos will fill in the void eventually.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      True enough …. and the #1 thing against democracy is that the Koran doesn’t allow it. Every movement of a day has been plotted by Big Brother, and democracy doesn’t work in that ‘law’ which the power-brokers use, and re-use, and abuse.

      1. MeYosemite Avatar
        MeYosemite

        I agree. It is hard to separate common law from Islam. Likely these two systems conflict in social and leadership roles.

      2. Alan Hussein Avatar
        Alan Hussein

        Please provide the exact quote in the Koran where it says that! If you are smart enough to know your history, you would learn that the Islamic empire were the first to use democracy before any country in the world!!!

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Do they put in practice TODAY. Sick of people talking about 10,000 years ago.  Show how they are democratic TODAY…..wow 2 sites I can find you 1000 that says other wise. Today stop living in the past……   

      3. antar2011 Avatar
        antar2011

        oh really 5th? the Quran does not allow it? how do you know? have you become a scholar of islamic studies all of a sudden and you did not annouce it? of course not…then what you claimed here is not only baseless but also a fabricated lie…before you throw a statement like you did here from the top of your head thinking it’s the truth have you bothered to look up if what you said is really the truth or not..

        let me help you a bit here…. in a time when the entire world was in darkness under the total authority and the ultimate word of kings and wanna-be-Gods in Romans, pre-islam persia and pre-islam indian empires,  when debates about women having a soul or not was still alive, when slavehood was thriving and when the poor could only mix/marry/socialise with the poor and the rich with their kinds if they attempted to mix transsocial class, they were emprisonned if not hanged, the message of islam in the Quran recited by prophet Mohammad peace and blessings be upon him appeared…..

        the first and most important thing in the message of islam after our faith/aqeeda is “shura” or “consultation” i.e when decisions are made, islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.

        [Quran 42:38] “Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation  among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance” [are praised]

        [Quran 3:159] Thus it is due to mercy from God that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough, hard hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in God; surely God loves those who trust

        this shura concept is what we call ‘democracy’ in our present time.

        yet you have the audacity to post something that is not only ignorant but very arrogant of you…..you are so sure of what you wrote eh? get your facts right.

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You say “Islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
          So who do they consult with ? I am lost on that part..Do they consult with other Religions or just muslims.?

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          To add to master09’s question, do they ‘consult’ with ‘all the people’ outside an atmosphere of LATER ‘edict-additions’ than even ‘the prophet’ made, or ‘hadiths’ and opinions of religious ‘talking heads’ – having made sure it advanced the general well-being of the 2000-yr-later well-educated masses who are not discriminated against by blood and wealth?
          Where indeed are the words found without the hangings, imprisonments, tortures (including cutting off of various bits or stonings), slavehoods, etc. that you mention from whichever ‘dark age’ of humanity you refer to?
          I may be arrogant in some sense … but I know when I am being denied the freedom to choose.

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            you can choose whatever you like…i don’t care and i am sure anyone on this blog or anywhere else for that matter cares…you can choose to live in eden or hell, who cares, you can choose to believe there is paradise or hell, it’s really up to you,….but what you can’t do is read a book or two or perhaps read one internet site or two that talks about islam or any other religio for that matter and analyse why is it bad/good without resorting to the mainstream scholars or thinkers of that religion and findig out what they have to say about it… that is ignorant behaviour.

            it’s like me saying oh all lebanese are hizbollah terrorists thugs because the resources i read and or distributed to me said so and that is enough to make a judgement about all lebanese.

            what’s arrogant is continouly diving in in your ignorant behaviour.

            your wish woshing post here talking about many issues put into one sentence/question does nto only reflect your confusion but reflects your brain washing concerning anything to do with religion/God/Prophet.

            look i dunno what your past religious experience has been like…i am sure you have asked lots of questions about God but i can tell from your posts that it was not a good experience….if you do not target islam with misconceptions directly you are hinting from now and then to the insanity of believers that they believe there are God . please correct me if i am wrong..

            of course it is your right to choose to believe so.
            but just don’t throw general statements about one of the main religions in the world without really knowing anything about it except what you read from sheikh Google.

            hence, i have said before on this blog site,

        3. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You say “Islam encourages muslims to decide their affairs in consultation with those who will be affected by that decision.
          So who do they consult with ? I am lost on that part..Do they consult with other Religions or just muslims.?

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            ya akhi, whoever i repeat whoever is effected by that decision, muslims, christians, jews, sikhs…anyone…why is it so hard to understand?

        4. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Don;t you worry Antar I have many muslim friends and let me tell you they are more than  prominent muslim scholars. Just because they are scholars that does not make them rite….Antar to prove a point you would stick it in someones face and prove them wrong. Let me answer the ? for you that came from your scholars. Apostasy in Islam is alive…Don’t you worry I know a lot I have spoken to educated people about it and other things….Ignorant yes,yes. Did I care how long it took for you to come back and reply, for all I care you don’t have to.. lol no chip of my shoulder it’s your life. I did not say that I care about your beliefs, I care little it,s your life.

          Antar when I ask a poor minded muslim a ? the only answer they can come back with is this ….change the subject………..ya akhi…..So antar have you read the bible to see the differance between both books, or would that be ignorant……

        5. Hannibal Avatar
          Hannibal

          The Quran is a plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity which are plagiarized from Egyptian and Babylonian mythology. Noah, the flood, the virgin birth and yeah do not forget flat Earth and genesis. Myth, Myth and more Myth… I believe in Santa Claus… He is jolly and brings gifts and smiles to the many kids around the world. Priceless… What did religion bring? Mayhem, destruction, murders and wars… You can have it ya akhi…. Put those books in a pan, ghliyon wu shraab mayeton… May be you will get that relief from the diarrhea your countries provide free of charge because you are too busy stooping and not too busy cleaning your water supply or providing electricity and food to the masses despite sitting on tons of money. OH I forgot you are waiting for the manna to fall from heaven like your cousins the jews lost in Sinai. 

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            as muslims we believe that the message of islam is present in the original version of previous divine books starting from the psalms of David ending in the Quran…each ‘book” adds something new depending on the time/place it was revealed to…so it’s really like each book is one brick of a completed building.

            so the Quran does not palagiarise previous ibrahemic faiths but rather it completes them. because it shares many things with them but adds new things to them.

            you ask what did religion bring….you forget to ask how did pple translate their religion…were they really saying what their religion tells them or do they act on their whims…i can almost always say the muslim pple who are doing evil things are always NOT following their religion to the bone 🙂

            if you do not like me saying akhi….that’s fine but you like it or not we are all ikhweh in humanity.

      4. master09 Avatar
        master09

        I may be arrogant in some sense … but I know when I am being denied the freedom to choose

        Can’t understand your arrogance lol, you did not know we still have cultures who still live as they did 1600 years ago, and want to force it on to the entire world…
        I asked the ????? about Apostasy do you think you get an answer….Do they consult on that too……..or is death forced on to them……..   But the answer is, it is what GOD says …..

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Well master09 … that is the crux of the problem. And I will not denigrate Antar’s concepts. From what I’ve seen, I trust he’s a good man … and I too put trust in God. After all, humans have that particular quirk of hope in something better. And one day perhaps I’ll meet Him to have a discussion about my arrogance on Earth. But I cannot believe He gave all the brains and ‘laws’ to the few mere mortals who claim to speak for Him. It is in those ‘translations’ of thoughts where the confusion lies – especially in the words ‘we’, ‘themselves’, and ‘you’. They have become reserved words for the supremes of the world – (we bestow) – not to be confused by including the rest of us – and the dark ages of history were extended by the ones not willing to share with humanity in ‘the knowledge’. Much of the early writings were left out as well, since they didn’t fit the mould of the later writer’s ‘visions’.
          But that too is history, isn’t it? And some try to bury history even today.
          Antar is right .. I’m not a ‘scholar’ of all the words in the religions … I prefer to keep it simple. We live in a natural garden in the universe. It can be our benefactor or our enemy. It may well have been begun by a wonderful God, who generously decided humans could be formed and exist on it. And in my opinion we should be figuring out how to tend the garden together. Some day, I might get to discuss with God a few of the problems, and whether or not I got the idea right.
          I am sure Mohammad has had enough peace and blessings bestowed upon him. Some others here on Earth could use it in their lifetimes. And I don’t need anyone telling me what to do each day … my parents gave me the good push, and I was was fortunate to not be chained down after that. My ‘arrogance’ does not allow a ‘supreme’ to dictate and crush the freedom of my thoughts. Or to force those thoughts on anyone else. Simple.
          But we DO have a democratic blog-site here don’t we….. 😉

        2. antar2011 Avatar
          antar2011

          saying you are or 5th is an arrogant does not mean i am forcing anything upon you.

          in the same way you do not believe in islam , i also do not believe your defense of 5th ignorant post is humble. i have a right ot believe that and you have the right to believe otherwise…i don’t want you to change that belief and i am sure you care less about what i believe. how then i am forcing you to change your belief? i don’t understand nor i want to understand!

          i am glad you used the word ‘cultures” instead of religions because by this measure, we have other religions [in your opinion] that are “older’ then 1600 yrs. but you know what, i am proud coming from that culture/religion/race and i don’t want to change anything about it…like it or not i don’t care.

          read my reply to 5th post to understand your/his arrogance.

          yes you asked a question…but did you think you wait until i read it and post an answer…i have other things to do that does not allow me to be 24/7 online readig your questions….also, i am not obliged to answer anything you ask….

          if i were you, i will do the correct/wise thing and find me someone in the community that knows a muslim and ask him to direct you to a sheikh who is highly respected in their community and go ask him whatever you like….the sheikh can’t just answer you from the top of his head, insist on him referring you to resources that came from prominent muslim scholars that everyone, around the world, and for many years, attest to in islamic knowledge.

          of course you can choose not to do that but that does not make you wise hence ignorant.

          PS you did not ask the question about Apostasy…you asked a question about Shura principles…..

      5. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        Sigh ….. Dive into ‘The Oxford’ again:
        Arrogance – from the Latin Arrogare – ‘claim for oneself’.  Arrogant – ‘having an exaggerated sense of one’s own importance or abilities.’
        Well, I did not claim any importance by making a simple statement of observation … allowed, I think.
        Perhaps ‘my arrogance’ relates to what I think is ‘my ability’ to see something, which some believe to be false? Or which many do not wish to be seen?
        Antar seems to feel it relates to the question ‘about Shura principles’. Probably, in his mind then, it does.
        I made a simple ‘political’ statement. And my arrogant position – unchanged by all the resulting dialogues – is that I have observed something which I think ‘we’ could fairly say has been ‘tried to death’, but doesn’t seem to work very well. At least, not in it’s use in the recent millennia … or especially in the few past decades. In fact, I think a mass of humanity has not benefitted at all by trying to keep it going as a ‘principal philosophy’ of societal law, and instead suffers under it.

        Philosophy: from the Greek ‘philosophia’ … ‘Love of wisdom’. (Hope I don’t seem arrogant for quoting  😉
        Where is the wisdom? Explain to me the wisdom of trying to adhere to a ‘system’ which, though there have been vast changes in human experience on the planet, and relations between the various cultures on it have improved greatly in many cases, still attempts to ignore the good of those changes and regulate harshly those who try to advance their experiences of all life.

        I WILL be arrogant in choosing democracy over autocracy. If God gave us a brain to use, and over the span of human history we have improved both it and our sense of a place in the universe, small as it might be, I will refuse to allow anyone to keep my own expanded experience going.
        God may determine when that will stop – but I won’t.
        I CAN see that some things humans do should be considered un-godly. Forcing a way of thinking, in my opinion, is one of them. A wider factual education cannot be considered un-godly, and when it frees people’s minds to see that they can make godly choices – without harming themselves or others or the planet – then perhaps politics along with books on ‘lifestyle-law’ will also gradually go away.
        Oh well … thoughts on ‘enlightenment’, eh Antar? 🙂
        For now, based on what I have seen, I stand on my statement.

  4. dabshaleemm Avatar
    dabshaleemm

    yu salafite mr

    1. master09 Avatar
      master09

      yu poop mr

    2. Hannibal Avatar
      Hannibal

      antar is salafite with no shanab only beard mr

      1. master09 Avatar
        master09

        The Quran is a plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity .
         Your in for an ear bashing get set. lol..But you are on the mark.. People have read one book and not the others and can say mine is better, nah, nah ,nah…lol. and they say people are ignorant.. 

    3. Hannibal Avatar
      Hannibal

      antar is salafite with no shanab only beard mr

      1. master09 Avatar
        master09

        The Quran is a plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity .
         Your in for an ear bashing get set. lol..But you are on the mark.. People have read one book and not the others and can say mine is better, nah, nah ,nah…lol. and they say people are ignorant.. 

  5. dabshaleemm Avatar
    dabshaleemm

    yu salafite mr

    1. master09 Avatar
      master09

      yu poop mr

    2. Hannibal Avatar
      Hannibal

      antar is salafite with no shanab only beard mr

      1. master09 Avatar
        master09

        The Quran is a plagiarism of Judaism and Christianity .
         Your in for an ear bashing get set. lol..But you are on the mark.. People have read one book and not the others and can say mine is better, nah, nah ,nah…lol. and they say people are ignorant.. 

  6. Omeriko Omeriko Avatar
    Omeriko Omeriko

    In 1948 there were 3 major Jewish military organizations. Socialist Hagana, right wing Etzel (called also Irgun) and far right Lehi. PM Ben Gurion forced all 3 of them to dissintegrate and their members to become part of the national army IDF.  Ben Gurion even gave the order to bomb Altalena arms-ship in order to prevent arming one of these organizations. Luckily the 3 groups largly avoided fighting despite hating each other- and were replaced by one single national army.

    If Hizbullah truely wants to defend Lebanon – it should become only a political organization, and give it’s weapons to the Lebanese army – Like the Hagana, Etzel or Lehi did in Israel 64 years ago. In that case, Israel would have no reason to attack Lebanon and maybe real peace could be achieved.

    1. master09 Avatar
      master09

      Well put, but that is not what the Arabs want and Iran. They want groups like this to grow so the threat to Isreal will continue. I tell you one thing, most Lebanese want peace with the Jews but can not talk as they are known as a SPY in the eye of these gangs…
      PEACE ,….the Arab radicals have never heard the word……To them NO JEWS NO CHRISTIANS and to take control of the world is all they talk about……. 

      1. antar2011 Avatar
        antar2011

        if you have bothered to read what i have said before after the PS you would not have said to stop living in the past.

        i said some pple claim to practice their religion right but that does not mean they are doing that really.

        the priominent scholars who i had in mind are all not alive…so you could not have possibly seen them or talked to them…dork!

        you also fail to see that those pple who are willign to practice their religion right are oppressed/put in prison/killed etc in the name of ……secularism.

        once you learn more about hisotry and especially political history i would then be open to discussio with you but our brief interraction showed you build ur views with looking at things from the surface while not really analysing thigs deep down.

        good luck with that!

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You know what is so funny, you say you know history and ask me to learn my history, but when I ask you ???? you fail to want to answer. I see I’m a dork, but that makes you a bigger dork….You are so blinded by your only history that you become a even bigger dork to open your mind and share it with others and about other cultural history…
          A scholar has a set of beliefs xpecially when it comes to Religion, he can not ?? be in denial or judge.Bias or prejudice how can they be….
          How can one scholar be correct and another well stupid… I am not sure, i wonder if I can get a scholarship? yeh I know it,s not the same…….

          The suface I am 1000 feet under the surface because I have studied Christianity but also Islam in a small way and spoken to a lot of people and I sure get a lot of directions,I did this so I can understand what  people talk about….. In islam you do not learn any other, I think that becomes the biggest dork!.

          you also fail to see that those pple who are willign to practice their religion right are oppressed/put in prison/killed etc in the name of ……secularism.
          You mean like the 10000,s of Christians who are killed for been Christians …I think that is what your saying, yes.

          .i said some pple claim to practice their religion right but that does not mean they are doing that really.
          Sorry no capish ,, I don’t know maybe I am a dork, lol So why not answer these ??? and maybe you can educate me   lol You just want answer any of the ???? As a religous person always says when they don’t want to asnwer a ?? change the subject or that is what God said….

          Peace to you

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            i mean do you think it’s the right blog/forum/place to discuss religious matters?
            if you think so then i don’t have a problem in answering your questions to the best of my ability…after all i am not a scholar not even a sheikh…but you also need to ask properly i can educate you.

            but there are conditions when you ask:
            1- you need to have an open mind and forget all the misconceptions [in my opinion anyway] you heard about islam
            2- you really need to lessen your sarcasm
            3- you questions need to be asked while you are respecting the belief…..you can criticise it all you like , it’s your right but you need to respect the belief and the pple who follow it even when you do not agree with it and find faults with it.

            if you agree then go ahead and ask if you don’t agree then this is the last post in this issue.

        2. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Yeh now I can see the picture . . Everything has faults even your book ….
           you need to have an open mind and forget all the misconceptions [in my opinion anyway] you heard about islam How do you know what and from whom I have heard.
          Your kidding rite…me an open mind it is you who is closing your mind with what you rite.
          Dude don;t go around saying mine is the best when you have not read the rest now that is an open mind………………… Good day to you………………………………………………..full stop end of story fiction or fact….

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            i don’t care who you heard from in our times…..i care for the fact that you confirmed my point of you that you did not use thecorrect prominant scholars of islamic studies who are used as referrences for over 100s of years by contemprory [and past] heavy weights in islamic education…i know for a fact that the prominent scholars i had in mind,are those who have choosen the correct path in their work for muslims and would transfer the real story about islam for whoever is willing to listen…and of course those same scholars you have no clue about…nor i expect you to.

            i dunno how am i closing my mind when i say to you…you have free choice to believe in whatever you like…but just don’t throw accusations/misconceptions about islam without resorting to real research about it.

            good day to you too…

        3. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Yeh now I can see the picture . . Everything has faults even your book ….
           you need to have an open mind and forget all the misconceptions [in my opinion anyway] you heard about islam How do you know what and from whom I have heard.
          Your kidding rite…me an open mind it is you who is closing your mind with what you rite.
          Dude don;t go around saying mine is the best when you have not read the rest now that is an open mind………………… Good day to you………………………………………………..full stop end of story fiction or fact….

        4. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Yes Antar Is Abul ala Mawdudi or Maulana Shafi good scholars or have no clue, is the ayotollah a scholar or a teacher, lol You have no clue who I am what I have read or studied. Do you think I am going to act in my writting on this site to show who I am. I writ at your level. Amazing how you know something about someone you have never met or know nothing about… When you have a closed mind you are deaf, blind and stupid…I will not listen to anyone but what I have read… good for you.

          What other works do you want me to tell you about.. You do not know what I can read speak or understand.. you think you know who I am… you have no clue.. In all the islamic scholars work they rite and they rite but always hide the misbehaviors of islam….TAFSEER You said once to me not many people understand the quran and don’t  know how to read it. tell me how do you know if I can read it or not. How do you know my background and what and where I lived and study..  yes in the way you rite you know everything…
          How can you for xample say the bible is not true when maybe you have not read the bible, that to me is the biggest hip I can think offffff.
          Dude I do not xpect someone to deny, question or go against something they believe in. You know the outcome in islam, if you question , so don,t ?? why would you so you should not lol…. End of subject end of communication . You win your the champ yeh good work …lol

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            *sigh*

            al maudoudi is a journalist and a political philosopher…simple search on the net will give you this result….how is he supposed to be a scholar of islam? hm? *rolls eyes*

            i don’t even know who is the second one…

            here are some names you might want to research:
            of course i am talkig about sunni scholars rather the shia/other branches of islam scholars…

            Abdallah al-Qutbi
            Abu Dawood
            Abū Ḥanīfa
            Ahmad ibn Hanbal
            Al-Suyuti
            Al-Tabarani
            Tirmidhi
            Ibn Battah
            Malik ibn Anas
            Muhammad al-Shaybani
            Al-Shafi‘i
            Al-Nawawi
            Ibn Rajab
            Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Fasi

            and there are mor ebut that’s enough i think… and enough garbbage from you-“writing at my level indeed’ [sarcasm intended].

          2. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            *sigh*

            al maudoudi is a journalist and a political philosopher…simple search on the net will give you this result….how is he supposed to be a scholar of islam? hm? *rolls eyes*

            i don’t even know who is the second one…

            here are some names you might want to research:
            of course i am talkig about sunni scholars rather the shia/other branches of islam scholars…

            Abdallah al-Qutbi
            Abu Dawood
            Abū Ḥanīfa
            Ahmad ibn Hanbal
            Al-Suyuti
            Al-Tabarani
            Tirmidhi
            Ibn Battah
            Malik ibn Anas
            Muhammad al-Shaybani
            Al-Shafi‘i
            Al-Nawawi
            Ibn Rajab
            Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Fasi

            and there are mor ebut that’s enough i think… and enough garbbage from you-“writing at my level indeed’ [sarcasm intended].

    2. master09 Avatar
      master09

      Well put, but that is not what the Arabs want and Iran. They want groups like this to grow so the threat to Isreal will continue. I tell you one thing, most Lebanese want peace with the Jews but can not talk as they are known as a SPY in the eye of these gangs…
      PEACE ,….the Arab radicals have never heard the word……To them NO JEWS NO CHRISTIANS and to take control of the world is all they talk about……. 

    3. MeYosemite Avatar
      MeYosemite

      Hizbulla is an Iranian terrorist organization. Has recruited Lebanese local followers. Iran knows that harboring terrorists in Iran means war. Best kept in Lebanon under the excuse of protecting Lebanon from Israel. The 2006 war was to create scars in lebanon and justify the cover to exist as an armed organization.
      When there is a common cause people unite. Lebanon has many causes thus divisions.

  7. Omeriko Omeriko Avatar
    Omeriko Omeriko

    In 1948 there were 3 major Jewish military organizations. Socialist Hagana, right wing Etzel (called also Irgun) and far right Lehi. PM Ben Gurion forced all 3 of them to dissintegrate and their members to become part of the national army IDF.  Ben Gurion even gave the order to bomb Altalena arms-ship in order to prevent arming one of these organizations. Luckily the 3 groups largly avoided fighting despite hating each other- and were replaced by one single national army.

    If Hizbullah truely wants to defend Lebanon – it should become only a political organization, and give it’s weapons to the Lebanese army – Like the Hagana, Etzel or Lehi did in Israel 64 years ago. In that case, Israel would have no reason to attack Lebanon and maybe real peace could be achieved.

    1. master09 Avatar
      master09

      Well put, but that is not what the Arabs want and Iran. They want groups like this to grow so the threat to Isreal will continue. I tell you one thing, most Lebanese want peace with the Jews but can not talk as they are known as a SPY in the eye of these gangs…
      PEACE ,….the Arab radicals have never heard the word……To them NO JEWS NO CHRISTIANS and to take control of the world is all they talk about……. 

      1. antar2011 Avatar
        antar2011

        if you have bothered to read what i have said before after the PS you would not have said to stop living in the past.

        i said some pple claim to practice their religion right but that does not mean they are doing that really.

        the priominent scholars who i had in mind are all not alive…so you could not have possibly seen them or talked to them…dork!

        you also fail to see that those pple who are willign to practice their religion right are oppressed/put in prison/killed etc in the name of ……secularism.

        once you learn more about hisotry and especially political history i would then be open to discussio with you but our brief interraction showed you build ur views with looking at things from the surface while not really analysing thigs deep down.

        good luck with that!

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          You know what is so funny, you say you know history and ask me to learn my history, but when I ask you ???? you fail to want to answer. I see I’m a dork, but that makes you a bigger dork….You are so blinded by your only history that you become a even bigger dork to open your mind and share it with others and about other cultural history…
          A scholar can be biased xpecialy when they are studying one form and not another…

          The suface I am 1000 feet under the surface because I have studied Christianity but also Islam so I can understand what  people talk about….. In islam you do not learn any other, I think that becomes the biggest dork!.

          you also fail to see that those pple who are willign to practice their religion right are oppressed/put in prison/killed etc in the name of ……secularism.
          You mean like the 10000,s of Christians who are killed for been Christians …I think that is what your saying, yes.

          .i said some pple claim to practice their religion right but that does not mean they are doing that really.
          Sorry no capish ,, I don’t know maybe I am a dork, lol So why not answer these ??? and maybe you can educate me   lol You just want answer any of the ???? As a religous person always says when they don’t want to asnwer a ?? change the subject or that is what God said….

          Peace to you

             

             
            

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            i mean do you think it’s the right blog/forum/place to discuss religious matters?
            if you think so then i don’t have a problem in answering your questions to the best of my ability…after all i am not a scholar not even a sheikh…but you also need to ask properly i can educate you.

            but there are conditions when you ask:
            1- you need to have an open mind and forget all the misconceptions [in my opinion anyway] you heard about islam
            2- you really need to lessen your sarcasm
            3- you questions need to be asked while you are respecting the belief…..you can criticise it all you like , it’s your right but you need to respect the belief and the pple who follow it even when you do not agree with it and find faults with it.

            if you agree then go ahead and ask if you don’t agree then this is the last post in this issue.

        2. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Yeh now I can see the picture . . Everything has faults even your book ….
           you need to have an open mind and forget all the misconceptions [in my opinion anyway] you heard about islam How do you know what and from whom I have heard.
          Your kidding rite…me an open mind it is you who is closing your mind with what you rite… Good day to you………………………………………………..

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            i don’t care who you heard from and where…i care for who are the prominant scholars who are used as referrences for over 100s of years…i know that they are from the ones who are choosing the correct path in their work for muslims….

            i duo how am i closing my mind when i say to you…you have free choice to believe in whatever you like…but just don’t throw accusations/misconceptions about islam because i believe i can safely say i know more about then you about islam since i am a muslim and you are not..

            good day to you too…

        3. master09 Avatar
          master09

          Yes Antar Is Abul ala Mawdudi or Maulana Shafi good scholars or have no clue, is the ayotollah a scholar or a teacher, lol You have no clue who I am what I have read or studied. Do you think I am going to act in my writting on this site to show who I am. I writ at your level. Amazing how you know something about someone you have never met or know nothing about… When you have a closed mind you are death blind and stupid…I will not listen to anyone but what I have read… good for you.

          What other works do you want me to tell you about.. You do not know what I can read speak or understand.. you think you know who I am… you have no clue.. In all the islamic scholars work they rite and they rite but always hide the misbehaviors of islam….TAFSEER You said once to me not many people understand the quran and don’t  know how to read it. tell me how do you know if I can read it or not. How do you know my background and what and where I lived and study..  yes in the way you rite you know everything…How can you for xample say the bible is not true when maybe you have not read the bible, that to me is the biggest hip I can think offffff. End of subject end of communication . You win your the champ yeh good work …lol

          1. antar2011 Avatar
            antar2011

            *sigh*

            al maudoudi is a journalist and a political philosopher…simple search on the net will give you this result….how is he supposed to be a scholar of islam? hm? *rolls eyes*

            i don’t even know who is the second one…

            here are some names you might want to research:
            of course i am talkig about sunni scholars rather the shia/other branches of islam scholars…

            Abdallah al-Qutbi
            Abu Dawood
            Abū Ḥanīfa
            Ahmad ibn Hanbal
            Al-Suyuti
            Al-Tabarani
            Tirmidhi
            Ibn Battah
            Malik ibn Anas
            Muhammad al-Shaybani
            Al-Shafi‘i
            Al-Nawawi
            Ibn Rajab
            Taqi al-Din Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Fasi

            and there are mor ebut that’s enough i think… and enough garbbage from you-“writing at my level indeed’ [sarcasm intended].

    2. MeYosemite Avatar
      MeYosemite

      Hizbulla is an Iranian terrorist organization. Has recruited Lebanese local followers. Iran knows that harboring terrorists in Iran means war. Best kept in Lebanon under the excuse of protecting Lebanon from Israel. The 2006 war was to create scars in lebanon and justify the cover to exist as an armed organization.
      When there is a common cause people unite. Lebanon has many causes thus divisions.

  8. antar2011 Avatar
    antar2011

    @hbarca:disqus  you could have said ur opionion without belittling other pple’s choice of religion.

    that’s definetly not the way to discuss  things…

    you [yourself and others] always complain about a political side…a dictatorial side in lebanese politics that taking thigs in its own hand and not willing to be open minded abotu others choice in their living……ad if they are happen to be in a situatio where they need to be in that open discussion, they resort to belittling or sacrcasm…

    in this issue you are doing the same.

    which makes your point of view that of a young child and so not to be taken seriously…

    anywayz…

  9. antar2011 Avatar
    antar2011

    @hbarca:disqus  you could have said ur opionion without belittling other pple’s choice of religion.

    that’s definetly not the way to discuss  things…

    you [yourself and others] always complain about a political side…a dictatorial side in lebanese politics that taking thigs in its own hand and not willing to be open minded abotu others choice in their living……ad if they are happen to be in a situatio where they need to be in that open discussion, they resort to belittling or sacrcasm…

    in this issue you are doing the same.

    which makes your point of view that of a young child and so not to be taken seriously…

    anywayz…

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