Special report: Who killed Lebanon’s Rafik Hariri?

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By: Neil Macdonald

It wasn’t until late 2007 that the awkwardly titled UN International Independent Investigation Commission actually got around to some serious investigating.

By then, nearly three years had passed since the spectacular public murder of Lebanon’s former prime minister Rafik Hariri.

Hariri, the builder. The billionaire tycoon who’d reclaimed Beirut’s architectural heritage from the shattered cityscape of a civil war and made it his mission to restore Lebanon’s mercantile leadership.

Hariri, the nationalist who’d had the courage to stand against Syria, Lebanon’s long-time occupier; and in his day was the most important reformer in the Middle East.

The massive detonation that killed him on Feb. 14, 2005 unleashed forces no one knew were there. All of Lebanon seemed to rise up in the murder’s aftermath, furiously pointing at the country’s Syrian overlords.

The not unreasonable assumption was that Hariri had died for opposing Damascus.

Lebanon’s fury quickly accomplished what the assassinated leader had failed to achieve in his lifetime.

The murder gave rise to the so-called Cedar Revolution, a rare Lebanese political consensus. Syria, cowed by the collective anger, withdrew its troops.

At the UN, France and the U.S. pushed the Security Council into dispatching a special investigative commission.

For a time, it actually seemed that Lebanon was moving toward the rule of law and true democracy.

But, by the end of 2007, all that had ebbed. The killers remained uncaught. Syria was gradually reasserting its influence. And assassinations of other prominent Lebanese continued.

In the White House, senior administration officials began to conclude that the UN’s famous clay feet were plodding toward nothing.

It turned out they were right.

A months-long CBC investigation, relying on interviews with multiple sources from inside the UN inquiry and some of the commission’s own records, found examples of timidity, bureaucratic inertia and incompetence bordering on gross negligence.

Among other things, CBC News has learned that:

* Evidence gathered by Lebanese police and, much later, the UN, points overwhelmingly to the fact that the assassins were from Hezbollah, the militant Party of God that is largely sponsored by Syria and Iran. CBC News has obtained cellphone and other telecommunications evidence that is at the core of the case.

* UN investigators came to believe their inquiry was penetrated early by Hezbollah and that that the commission’s lax security likely led to the murder of a young, dedicated Lebanese policeman who had largely cracked the case on his own and was co-operating with the international inquiry.

* UN commission insiders also suspected Hariri’s own chief of protocol at the time, a man who now heads Lebanon’s intelligence service, of colluding with Hezbollah. But those suspicions, laid out in an extensive internal memo, were not pursued, basically for diplomatic reasons.

Part 1 – connecting the cellphones

In its first months, the UN inquiry had actually appeared promising. The first commissioner, a German judge named Detlev Mehlis, quickly delivered a blistering report suggesting Syria had ordered, if not actually carried out, the hit.

Unspecified agents, Mehlis contended, had done the deed.

But Mehlis’s successor, a Belgian prosecutor named Serge Brammertz, seemed to be more interested in avoiding controversy than in pursuing any sort of serious investigation, at least according to people who worked for him.

Under his leadership, the commission spent most of its time chasing what turned out to be false leads and disproving wild conspiracy theories.

That isn’t to say the commission didn’t have some good investigators. It did. In fact, it had a handful of the best that Western police agencies had to offer.

But Brammertz could not be persuaded to authorize the one technique that those investigators wanted above all to deploy: telecommunications analysis, probably the single most important intelligence-gathering tool in modern times.

Telecommunications analysts use powerful computers and highly sophisticated software to sift through millions of phone calls, seeking patterns, referencing and cross-referencing, identifying networks and associations.

Police forces call it “telecomms.” Spy agencies call it “sigint.” It leads to convictions in courts and missile strikes in places like Afghanistan and Yemen.

Unbelievably, though, the UN commission in Lebanon did no telecom analysis at all for most of its first three years of existence. It wasn’t until Brammertz was nearing the end of his term that one particularly dogged detective prodded him into letting the inquiry start examining phone records.

The breakthrough

At that point, in October of 2007, things began moving fast. Commission staff actually managed to obtain the records of every single phone call made in Lebanon the year of Hariri’s murder — a stunning amount of data — and brought in a British firm called FTS to carry out the specialized analysis.

UN clerks worked day and night inputting data into a program called IBase. Then, in December, a specialist from FTS began examining what the computer was spitting out.

Within two days, he called the UN investigators together. He had identified a small network of mobile phones, eight in all, that had been shadowing Hariri in the weeks prior to his death.

It was the single biggest breakthrough the commission had accomplished since its formation — “earth-shattering,” in the words of one of the people in the room the day the network was identified.

What the British analyst showed them was nothing less than the hit squad that had carried out the murder, or at least the phones they’d been carrying at the time.

For the first time, commission investigators were staring at their quarry. The trouble was, the traces were now nearly three years old, long past the “golden hour” for harvesting the best clues.

Still, it was something. And when the investigators began their due diligence, double-checking their work, there was another revelation, this one even more earth-shattering.

Someone digging though the commission’s records turned up a report from a mid-ranking Lebanese policeman that had been sent over to the UN offices nearly a year and a half earlier, in the first months of 2006.

Not only had the policeman identified what the UN would eventually dub the “red network” — the hit team — he had discovered much more. He had found the networks behind the networks.

In fact, he’d uncovered a complex, disciplined plot that had been at least a year in the planning, and he had already questioned suspects.

What’s more, everything he’d discovered pointed to one culprit: Hezbollah, the Party of God.

All of this was in the policeman’s report, which he had dutifully sent to the UN officials with whom he was supposed to be partnering.

And the UN commission had promptly lost it.

Part 2

Before his violent death in 2008, Wissam Eid was an unusual figure in the murky, often corrupt world of Arab policing.

He had never actually wanted to be a policeman, or an intelligence officer. In authoritarian Arab society, he had no interest in becoming an authority figure. And yet, he’d had no choice.

When he was doing his military service in the 1990s, the ISF, Lebanon’s all-encompassing security force, noticed Eid’s degree in computer engineering.

The security service was then trying to build an information technology department. And that was that.

“He was a patriot,” says his father Mahmoud, sitting in the living room of the family home in Deir Ammar, on the outskirts of Tripoli.

The centerpiece of the room is, in the Arab way, a shrine to their son. The young man’s intense, chiseled countenance stares back at visitors over commendations and testimonials.

His mother Samira, a picture of Islamic dignity, is a religious person. It helps with the grief.

The rest of her family is not particularly observant. But they all understand the savage realities of their country and how those realities clashed with Eid’s unyielding pursuit of some of the most dangerous people in the world.

By the time Hariri was killed in 2005, Eid was a captain in the ISF. His boss, Lt.-Col. Samer Shehadeh, brought him into the investigation.

It was a Lebanese investigation, Eid was told, but it was also a UN one. Eid was to co-operate with the foreigners working out of the old abandoned hotel in the hills above Beirut.

Process of elimination

Capt. Eid, though, wasn’t interested in delving into some of the wilder theories making the rounds in Lebanon.

He reasoned that finding the first traces of the killers was a process of elimination.

From Lebanon’s phone companies, he obtained the call records of all the cellphones that had registered with the cell towers in the immediate vicinity of the Hotel St. George, where the massive blast had torn a deep crater.

Once Eid had those records, he began thinning out the hundreds of phones in the area that morning, subtracting those held by each of the 22 dead, then those in Hariri’s entourage, then those of people nearby who had been interviewed and had alibis.

Soon enough, he had found the “red” phones the hit team had used.

But he didn’t stop there. Exhaustively tracking which towers the red phones had “shaken hands with” in the days before the assassination, and comparing those records to Hariri’s schedule, he discovered that this network had been shadowing the former PM.

The red-phone carriers were clearly a disciplined group. They communicated with one another and almost never with an outside phone. And directly after the assassination, the red network went dead forever.

But Eid had found another connection. He eventually identified eight other phones that had for months simultaneously used the same cell towers as the red phones.

Signals intelligence professionals call these “co-location” phones.

What Capt. Eid had discovered was that everyone on the hit team had carried a second phone, and that the team members had used their second phones to communicate with a much larger support network that had been in existence for at least a year.

Eventually, the UN would label that group the “blue” network.

More networks

The blue network also exercised considerable discipline. It, too, remained a “closed” network. Not once did any blue-network member make the sort of slip that telecom sleuths look for.

But these people also carried co-location phones and Eid kept following the ever-widening trail of crumbs.

The big break came when the blue network was closed down and the phones were collected by a minor electronics specialist who worked for Hezbollah, Abd al Majid al Ghamloush.

Ghamloush was, in the words of one former UN investigator, “an idiot.”

Given the job of collecting and disposing of the blue phones, he noticed some still had time remaining on them and used one to call his girlfriend, Sawan, in the process basically identifying himself to Capt. Eid. He might as well have written his name on a whiteboard and held it up outside ISF headquarters.

Ghamloush’s stupidity eventually led Eid to a pair of brothers named Hussein and Mouin Khreis, both Hezbollah operatives. One of them had actually been at the site of the blast.

Capt. Eid kept going, identifying more and more phones directly or indirectly associated with the hit team. He found the core of a third network, a longer-term surveillance team that would eventually be dubbed the “yellows.”

Eid’s work would also lead to another discovery: Everything connected, however elliptically, to land lines inside Hezbollah’s Great Prophet Hospital in South Beirut, a sector of the city entirely controlled by the Party of God.

It has long been said that the fundamentalist fighters operate a command centre in the hospital.

Eventually, telecom sleuths would identify another network of four so-called “pink phones” that had been communicating both with the hospital and, indirectly, with the other networks.

These phones turned out to be tremendously important. It turned out they had been issued by the Lebanese government itself and when the ministry of communications was queried about who they had been issued to, the answer came back in the form of a bland government record.

CBC has obtained a copy of this record provided to the commission. On it, someone has highlighted four entries in a long column of six-digit numbers. Beside the highlighted numbers, in Arabic, was the word “Hezbollah.”

Hezbollah has several seats in the Lebanese legislature and at the time had been part of a governing coalition, hence the government-issued phones.

Finally, Eid was handed a clue from the best source possible: He was contacted by Hezbollah itself and told that some of the phones he was chasing were being used by Hezbollah agents conducting a counter-espionage operation against Israel’s Mossad spy agency and that he needed to back off.

The warning could not have been more clear.

As though to underscore it, Eid’s boss, Lt.-Col. Shehadeh, was targeted by bombers in September 2006. The blast killed four of his bodyguards and nearly killed Shehadeh, who was sent to Quebec for medical treatment and resettlement.

By that time, Capt. Eid had sent his report to the UN inquiry and moved on to another operation.

The Eid report was entered into the UN’s database by someone who either didn’t understand it or didn’t care enough to bring it forward. It disappeared.

Mixed with shame

A year and a half later, in December 2007, when the Eid report finally resurfaced, the immediate reaction of the UN telecom team was embarrassment. And then suspicion.

Eid claimed to have performed his analysis using nothing but Excel spreadsheets and that, said the British specialist, was impossible.

No one, he declared, could accomplish such a thing without powerful computer assistance and the requisite training. No amateur, which is how the specialists regarded Eid, could possibly have waded through the millions of possible permutations posed by the phone records and extracted individual networks.

This Capt. Eid must have had help, thought the telecom experts. Someone must have given him this information. Perhaps he was involved somehow?

By now it was January 2008. A new UN commissioner was in charge, a Canadian justice official named Daniel Bellemare. Investigators were finally beginning to believe they were getting somewhere.

A deputation of telecom experts was dispatched to meet Eid. They questioned him and returned convinced that, somehow, he had indeed identified the networks himself.

Eid appeared to be one of those people who could intuit mathematical patterns, the sort who thinks several moves ahead in chess. Even better, he was willing to help directly. He wanted Hariri’s killers to face justice, Hezbollah’s warning be damned.

It was an exciting prospect for the UN team. Here was an actual Lebanese investigator, with insights and contacts the UN foreigners could never match.

A week later, a larger UN team met with Capt. Eid and, again, all went well.

Then, the next day, Jan. 25, 2008, eight days after his first meeting with the UN investigators, Capt. Wissam Eid met precisely the same fate as Hariri. The bomb that ripped apart his four-wheel-drive vehicle also killed his bodyguard and three innocent bystanders.

Lebanon gave Eid a televised funeral and, at the UN inquiry, there was outrage as well. But mixed with shame.

Because there was no doubt in the mind of any member of the telecom team why Eid had died: Hezbollah, they deduced, had found out that Capt. Eid’s report had been discovered, that he’d met with the UN investigators and that he had agreed to work with them.

Immediately, the telecom team had the records of the cell towers near the Eid blast site collected, reasoning the killers might once again have left digital footprints they could follow.

Not this time, though. There was nothing. This time the killers did what they should have been doing all along: They’d used radios, not cellphones. Radios don’t leave a trace.

That left the UN team with the obvious problem. Their adversary obviously knew not only what the UN investigators were doing, but knew in considerable detail.

And the more the UN investigators thought about it, the more they focused on one man: Col. Wissam al Hassan, the new head of Lebanese intelligence.

Part 3

In the tradition of Middle Eastern intelligence chiefs, Col. Hassan is a puzzling, even feared figure in his own country.

He was on the UN radar from the beginning, for two reasons: He quickly became one of the inquiry’s main liaisons with the ISF; plus he was in charge of Hariri’s security at the time of the assassination.

Except he hadn’t been in the convoy the day of the blast. And his alibi was flimsy, to put it mildly.

On July 9, 2005, Col. Hassan told UN investigators that he was enrolled in a computer course, Management Social et Humaine, at Lebanese University.

He said that on the day before the assassination, Feb. 13, he had received a call from his professor, Yahya Rabih, informing him he was required to sit for an exam the next day.

Twenty minutes later, he told investigators, Hariri had phoned, summoning him. Col. Hassan said he arrived at Hariri’s residence at 9:30 that evening and obtained his boss’s permission to attend the exam the next day.

He spent the entire next morning studying for the exam, he told the UN, and turned off his phone when he entered the university, which was at just about the time Hariri died.

“If I wasn’t sitting for that exam,” Hassan told investigators, “I would have been with Mr. Hariri” when he died.

A different story

But Hassan’s phone records told another story entirely.

In fact, it was Col. Hassan who called the professor, not the other way around. And Hassan placed the call half an hour after he had met Hariri earlier in the evening.

The cell towers around Hassan’s home also showed that the next day Col. Hassan spent the hours before Hariri’s assassination, the time he was supposedly studying, on the phone.

He made 24 calls, an average of one every nine minutes.

What was also disturbing the UN investigators was that high security officials in Lebanon don’t normally sit for exams.

“His alibi is weak and inconsistent,” says a confidential UN report that labels Hassan a “possible suspect in the Hariri murder.”

That report, obtained by CBC News, was prepared in late 2008 for Garry Loeppky, a former senior RCMP official who had taken over as the UN’s chief investigator that summer.

Hassan’s alibi, said the document, “does not appear to have been independently verified.”

That hadn’t been for lack of desire on the part of UN investigators. They’d wanted to check out Hassan’s alibi, to “get in his face,” in the words of one former detective, and pick apart his story.

Lebanon map.

Exile without end

Lebanon’s vicious sectarian strife since the end of the Second World War cannot be fully understood without reference to the influx of Palestinian refugees who flooded into the country following the creation of Israel in 1948 and the Arab-Israeli War in 1967.

Recently, the CBC’s Nahlah Ayed and colleagues from Radio-Canada spent some considerable time in Lebanon documenting the history and plight of these refugees and what they represent for the future of the region.

Their stories can be read and viewed in our special report: Exile without end: Palestinians in Lebanon.

At the very least, they wanted to contact Rabih, the professor.

But Brammertz, the second UN commissioner, flatly ruled that out. He considered Hassan too valuable a contact and any such investigation as too disruptive.

‘Might damage relations’

The confidential report concedes that investigating Hassan could have its drawbacks: “It may damage the commission’s relations with the ISF, and if he was somehow involved in the Hariri murder, the network might resolve to eliminate him.”

Nonetheless, the report states that Col. Hassan “is a key interlocutor for the commission. He is in a unique position to influence our investigation. As such, questions regarding his loyalty and intentions should be resolved.

“Therefore, it is recommended that WAH be investigated quietly.”

But even that wasn’t done. The UN commission’s management ignored the recommendation.

Former UN investigators remain suspicious to this day of Hassan, who, they note, was eventually cut out of the inquiry’s loop.

But Hassan did become Capt. Eid’s boss after the Hariri assassination. He certainly would have known about the sudden interest in the Eid report, and the meetings.

“He was an unsavory character,” a former senior UN official said. “I don’t think he participated in the murder, but there’s no way of telling what he knew.”

“He rose, at the very least, to the level of a person of interest,” said another.

Reached in Lebanon today, al Hassan repeatedly declined comment.

More calls

Though told to back off, UN investigators nevertheless had managed to collect Hassan’s phone records for late 2004 and all of 2005.

In that time, he had 279 discussions with Hussein Khalil, the principal deputy of Hezbollah chieftain Hassan Nasrallah. Khalil in turn spoke 602 times to Wafik Safa, who is known in intelligence circles as the hard man who runs Hezbollah’s internal security department.

No one asked Hassan about those calls, either.

Hassan, though, also has his defenders. He remains a close ally of Hariri’s son Saad, the current Lebanese prime minister.

Also, former U.S. officials, some of whom were in the Oval Office when then president George W. Bush vented his frustration with the commission’s apparent incompetence, maintain that Hassan is in fact a bitter enemy of Hezbollah, and casting suspicion on him merely plays into the group’s hands.

That this particular UN memo about Hassan was ever written, says one former American security official, is evidence that the commission hadn’t the slightest idea what it was doing.

Several former UN investigators, though, are unanimous. They believe Hezbollah infiltrated the commission and used Hassan in the process.

“He lied to us on the alibi,” says one. “He should have died in the convoy. That’s the question mark.”

Part 4

Nearly six years have now passed since Hariri’s assassination. The UN mandate was eventually expanded to include nine untargeted public bombings and 11 targeted attacks and assassinations, including that of Capt. Eid.

Daniel Bellemare oversaw the commission’s transformation into the Special Tribunal for Lebanon, residing in The Hague, and is now its chief prosecutor.

To date, the UN inquiry has reportedly spent in the range of $200 million and there has been talk for some time now that it is preparing to bring down indictments, possibly late this year or in early 2011.

The tribunal currently has an annual budget in excess of $40 million and more than 300 employees from 61 countries. It has a headquarters, a team of prosecutors, a defence office, judges, clerks, investigators and research staff, even access to detention facilities, but not a single accused.

Bellemare is singularly uncommunicative about whatever progress has been made, as was Brammertz. From time to time, Bellemare has assured the Lebanese media that justice is proceeding, must remain confidential and shouldn’t be rushed.

Bellemare refused repeated requests to speak to CBC News about this report.

The commission’s telecom team eventually produced a succession of sophisticated charts depicting the phone networks behind the Hariri killing. CBC News has obtained a fairly recent iteration.

In recent months, investigators even attached names to some of the red phones carried by the Hariri hit squad.

But the biggest problem, according to several sources, has been converting the telecommunications analysis into evidence that will stand up in a court of law.

That means someone has to find financial records, or witnesses or other evidence, to actually place the phones in the hands of the alleged perpetrators.

As of mid-2009, sources say, the commission had not done so.

“There was no [corroborating] evidence whatsoever,” says one former insider. “And there was no hope of getting any evidence. Because who are you going to put on the ground in southern Beirut to go digging around? You can’t put anyone on the ground. It’s not possible.”

What’s more, the commission never used wiretaps, even after it identified certain phones in networks that hadn’t gone dead.

In all likelihood, any formal request to the Lebanese authorities for a phone tap would have become known in short order to Hezbollah, given its connections. And Bellemare wouldn’t allow his investigators to buy and use eavesdropping technology on their own.

He had, though, gone cap-in-hand to Washington, looking for help from its intelligence agencies. There, he met with Bush’s national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, and with then secretary of state Condoleezza Rice.

But he was rebuffed. Bellemare had not been Washington’s choice for the job and U.S. officials did not hold him in terribly high regard. They were aware he had been spending much of his time obsessing over the trappings of his UN offices, ordering in tailored clothes, boasting about his prosecutorial prowess and designing a personal coat of arms.

His underlings had watched, bemused, as he dispatched security staff to Beirut’s more fashionable shopping districts to inquire about having the family crest embossed on pieces of jewelry.

“If I was given to conspiracy theories,” said one of Bellemare’s former officials, “I’d think he was deliberately put in there so as not to achieve anything.”

Secret intercepts from intelligence agencies like the CIA or National Security Agency are not useable in a court such as the UN Special Tribunal. And, knowing of the leaks and other problems at the UN commission, no intelligence agency in the West was prepared to hand over such sensitive material.

When Hadley politely inquired as to what Bellemare would consider a success — indictments, actual arrests, declarations of official suspicions? — the Canadian waffled, unable or unwilling to provide a precise answer.

Meanwhile, back in Lebanon, Hezbollah had begun mounting a campaign to ensure that gathering supporting evidence would remain next to impossible.

As rumours began surfacing in the Lebanese press that the UN tribunal was getting close to issuing indictments, Nasrallah, the Hezbollah chief, began warning that he will simply not tolerate arrests of any of his people.

That’s no idle threat. Nasrallah operates a private militia considerably more powerful than the Lebanese army. And he also demanded that the UN tribunal, which is partially funded by Lebanon, be dissolved.

In recent months, Nasrallah has taken to claiming that it was actually Israel that killed Hariri.

More than one former UN investigator believes that should the telecommunications evidence ever be put before the Lebanese public, Nasrallah will acknowledge that his operatives were on the street when Hariri died, but claim that they were there chasing Israeli assassins.

Nothing the UN has uncovered points remotely at Israel. Everything points at Hezbollah. But invoking Israel always gains traction in the Arab world.

Backing off

One formerly senior official with the commission says “considerable progress” was made during the most recent months of Bellemare’s term in gathering evidence to support the telecommunications work. But, he concedes, the evidence is still largely circumstantial.

That may be all the excuse that Prime Minister Saad Hariri and his political allies need to let this commission die.

Saad Hariri and his supporters originally blamed Syria for the assassination. But they’ve been backpedaling in recent months. Hariri recently exonerated Syria, repudiating his own sworn statement to UN investigators in 2005.

He has also called for an investigation of Nasrallah’s claims that Israel killed his father.

Detlev Mehlis, the first UN commissioner, told CBC News recently that it has always been obvious Syria ordered the Hariri hit. That it would use Hezbollah, its long-time proxy, he says, is only logical.

The elder Hariri, Mehlis noted, had pushed not just for a Syrian withdrawal but also for the disarming of Hezbollah’s feared militia.

Scott Carpenter, a former Bush administration official dispatched by the White House to Lebanon in the wake of Hariri’s death, also says the reality is obvious.

But, he adds: “Is Hezbollah going to get away with it? Yes. Fewer travesties will be greater, but I don’t see where the international will is to take this on, and I certainly don’t see, absent that international will, how the Lebanese people can take it on.”

A martyr remembered

Capt. Eid, who was posthumously promoted to the rank of major, lies in a grave not far from the family home in Deir Ammar.

His picture is everywhere in the city, looking down upon streets, cafes and restaurants. He is uniformly described as a martyr to his country.

His family has precious little by which to remember him. A few photos, a scrapbook of news stories about his death, and a few minutes of amateur video.

Mohammed Eid says that by late 2007, his older brother had begun living in his office, convinced he probably didn’t have much longer to live.

He asked Mohammed to make the video, which depicts him working at his desk in the ISF’s Beirut headquarters. In it, he banters with people off-screen; it is unremarkable footage, but haunting to anyone who knows his story.

Eid’s mother, Samira, says her son was a gift to their country and believes that, as a martyr, he remains with her eternally.

“If we have a few other Wissams in Lebanon, the country will be just fine,” she says. Her husband just stares sadly into space.

She and her husband and their three surviving sons know almost certainly who killed Wissam.

But this is Lebanon, and they understand the consequences of talking about that.

“I cannot open my mouth,” she says, “because we have other young men to protect.”

Mohammed Eid says the family has even come to realize that Lebanon could pay a bloody price if his brother’s murderers are ever charged. “C’est pas le moment,” he says, in the family’s second language.

But of his brother’s investigative skill, the family has no doubt.

In 2009, before the UN inquiry packed up and left for The Hague, an Australian prosecutor named Raelene Sharp, who’d been working for the commission, paid the Eid family a surprise visit.

She wept, as she told them that without their son, the commission would be nowhere.

CBC

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Comments

126 responses to “Special report: Who killed Lebanon’s Rafik Hariri?”

  1. Rest in Peace Wissam. You are a hero of Lebanon.
    “The Eid report was entered into the UN’s database by someone who either didn’t understand it or didn’t care enough to bring it forward. It disappeared.” HMMMMMMMMMMMMM Did it point at Israel?

    1. they did recover it , it is mistake it happens, but the essential work was done by the brave Eid,the German Mehlis was more a pro , but the Canadian Belmar obviously lack seriousness if it is true what CBC is saying. I know CBC well and it is not a neutral station and , they have tendency to switch the truth and they can’t be trusted fully.
      We don’t need really much to know the truth. The fact Wisam Eid was killed and his boss was almost killed (Shehade) is a big proof that Hizbollah is involved.
      The important thing is regardless if the criminals are caught or not ,Hizbollah is no longer what they claim to be, th killing of Hariri and the event of 7 may put them in the category of a militia / gangs /mafia style killers , doesnt’ matter they fight israel or not , liberating your country will not wipe the shameful killing of a man who build a city and no matter what they accuse him of Hariri wasn’t a murderer but they are!!! and no one can convince me personally that Nasrallah would dare to kill Hariri if he wasn’t ordered by his masters the Syrian and Iranian, and that’s why Mughnie and Ghazi Kinaan were terminated to burry the truth with them in regard to the Syrian involvement. Just look at Bashar and you know what he’s capable of , as the Christ said from their front head you should be able to know them,they are killers son of killers and hell is where they belong and are going to after they die,i spit on them all bastards son of bastards!!!!! their hand should be cut before their heads

    2. PROPHET.T Avatar

      HMMMMMMMMMMM YOU SURE DID, LOL

  2. Rest in Peace Wissam. You are a hero of Lebanon.
    “The Eid report was entered into the UN’s database by someone who either didn’t understand it or didn’t care enough to bring it forward. It disappeared.” HMMMMMMMMMMMMM Did it point at Israel?

    1.  Avatar

      they did recover it , it is mistake it happens, but the essential work was done by the brave Eid,the German Mehlis was more a pro , but the Canadian Belmar obviously lack seriousness if it is true what CBC is saying. I know CBC well and it is not a neutral station and , they have tendency to switch the truth and they can’t be trusted fully.
      We don’t need really much to know the truth. The fact Wisam Eid was killed and his boss was almost killed (Shehade) is a big proof that Hizbollah is involved.
      The important thing is regardless if the criminals are caught or not ,Hizbollah is no longer what they claim to be, th killing of Hariri and the event of 7 may put them in the category of a militia / gangs /mafia style killers , doesnt’ matter they fight israel or not , liberating your country will not wipe the shameful killing of a man who build a city and no matter what they accuse him of Hariri wasn’t a murderer but they are!!! and no one can convince me personally that Nasrallah would dare to kill Hariri if he wasn’t ordered by his masters the Syrian and Iranian, and that’s why Mughnie and Ghazi Kinaan were terminated to burry the truth with them in regard to the Syrian involvement. Just look at Bashar and you know what he’s capable of , as the Christ said from their front head you should be able to know them,they are killers son of killers and hell is where they belong and are going to after they die,i spit on them all bastards son of bastards!!!!! their hand should be cut before their heads

      1.  Avatar

        “The fact Wisam Eid was killed and his boss was almost killed (Shehade) is a big proof that Hizbollah is involved.”

        Yeah you’re right guss39. The proof is astonishing and even more indisputable. You would make a perfect STL investigator. I recommend you apply and join the dignified team. Put me down as your reference!

        1.  Avatar

          Wow Nagdella your sure on the defensive?? Whats wrong does the truth hurt?

        2.  Avatar

          samsa1: hahaha truth?? Is that what you call it? Not a problem. Let me quote you samsa1,

          “Pretty much what the Lebanese know already”

          Did the Lebanese know that Colonel Wissam al-Hassan was a suspect in Hariris’ murder? Or didn’t you read that part of the article because the truth might hurt you? Please elaborate for me but make sure you don’t get on the defensive.. Otherwise it might mean you’re guilty 😉

    2. PROPHET.T Avatar

      HMMMMMMMMMMM YOU SURE DID, LOL

      1. All I’m saying is that all angles should be looked at and NO I did not mean it sarcastically, I did mean it that something in Wissam’s report caused some stir at STL. However, one should not ignore the fact that right before the death of Wissam he was told by Hezbollah to back off… HMMMMMMMMMM Strange!!!!!!! At the end my friend whomsoever is the perpetrator I hope all Lebanese will stand behind Lebanese authorities to bring the killers to justice. We can learn from history that during the French revolution the people who manned the guillotines were eventually guillotined and that if HA is manning the guillotine for the Syrian regime their turn will come to be guillotined by that same regime.

        1. I’m getting lost in the world of Intelligence… More spices everyday. I already read comments convicting people. So many people at this forum have already made up their minds. They are waiting for the STL indictments to confirm their convictions.
          This report added some spices to the story; Wissam Al Hasaan, and Col Eid.
          All these leaks add to the confusion, and raises more questions about how the STL has conducted itself. There are different theories on who is doing the leaking, and why? Some even think it is meant to discredit the STL itself. I think they are meant to prepare the public ahead of time of the tsunami coming their way.
          It makes you wonder how many intelligent agencies have infiltrated the STL.
          You may want to take a look at a story by Franklin Lamb at veterans today. This site does not allow links, so you can look it up. You’ll find more spices.lol
          By Prophet.

  3. Bravo Neil Macdonald. Absolutely amazing. You have finally given the world some closure.

    “Nothing the UN has uncovered points remotely at Israel. Everything points at Hezbollah.”

    Mr Macdonald, while conducting your arduous unbiased investigation, did you find a moment to investigate who runs Lebanons’ telecom network? Maybe then you can cook up another fairy tale to entertain us with!

    1. Now we need some action by the Lebanese or International government(s). Hopefully it wont be long

  4.  Avatar

    Bravo Neil Macdonald. Absolutely amazing. You have finally given the world some closure.

    “Nothing the UN has uncovered points remotely at Israel. Everything points at Hezbollah.”

    Mr Macdonald, while conducting your arduous unbiased investigation, did you find a moment to investigate who runs Lebanons’ telecom network? Maybe then you can cook up another fairy tale to entertain us with!

    1. Now we need some action by the Lebanese or International government(s). Hopefully it wont be long

  5. Pretty much what the Lebanese know already …Hezbollah is at the centre of the murders. I just have to make the point and say, Napolean and Adolf Hitlor both leaders,both murderers, both wanted to conquer and control countries and people. They were destroyed, but only after they brought destruction. That is the path Hezbollah is on ..God help us all..!!

  6.  Avatar

    Pretty much what the Lebanese know already …Hezbollah is at the centre of the murders. I just have to make the point and say, Napolean and Adolf Hitlor both leaders,both murderers, both wanted to conquer and control countries and people. They were destroyed, but only after they brought destruction. That is the path Hezbollah is on ..God help us all..!!

  7. Hezbollah killed a noble man who helped everyone no matter what religion or sect he or she belong to,
    His murder will never be forgiven nor Hezbollah can stay in power in Lebanon anymore, it is not possible. They can take it by force but god help them when they do!!

  8. Hezbollah killed a noble man who helped everyone no matter what religion or sect he or she belong to,

    His murder will never be forgiven nor Hezbollah can stay in power in Lebanon anymore, it is not possible. They can take it by force but god help them when they do!!

  9. I really hope that HezbuAllah is innocent, but as time passes I am getting more and more convinced that they might no be.A lebanese party killing a leader is an act of treason. My problem is that I grew up in the south and HezbuAllah was the only party for long years who stood against Isreal military wise at least and made the Isrealies back off from our houses regardless to our religion, for me they were the resistance that I could be proud to have, but after the beirut invasion in 2008 and now the Hariri assasination my perception of them is more and more becoming totally the opposite of resistance image i had before. They defy the goverment elected by the people, they step on the rules whnever things does not turn the way they want it, they wonder in the streets with their arms intimidating people, they shut down the airport and even the whole country whenever they feel like it….this is not a resistance anymore, it is so frustrating.

  10. I really hope that HezbuAllah is innocent, but as time passes I am getting more and more convinced that they might no be.A lebanese party killing a leader is an act of treason. My problem is that I grew up in the south and HezbuAllah was the only party for long years who stood against Isreal military wise at least and made the Isrealies back off from our houses regardless to our religion, for me they were the resistance that I could be proud to have, but after the beirut invasion in 2008 and now the Hariri assasination my perception of them is more and more becoming totally the opposite of resistance image i had before. They defy the goverment elected by the people, they step on the rules whnever things does not turn the way they want it, they wonder in the streets with their arms intimidating people, they shut down the airport and even the whole country whenever they feel like it….this is not a resistance anymore, it is so frustrating.

  11. This will add some spice to an already hot dish. I think it will give the investigators at this page some extra work to do. lol

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/19/israel-destroy-hezbollah/

  12. This will add some spice to an already hot dish. I think it will give the investigators at this page some extra work to do. lol

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/19/israel-destroy-hezbollah/

  13. After the withdrawal of Israel, Hizbollah is no longer the party of God, it became the party of the devil.
    They eliminated lots of corrupt politicians but with them lots of innocent civiliants a mom, a dad , a brother , a sister.
    They consider that there so called struggle is more important than any living human being. They endager the life of everyday civiliants by living among them no one knows who they are except Israel.
    Israel and Hizbollah have no regard to the human life, they both treat it as a disposable asset.
    from a personal experience i will tell you a little story, they moved to our building in Beirut, without invitation, they installed lots of equipments on the roof of our residential building, transmitters and equipments that by medical certificate cause cancer to the residents, they constructed barricades on the front of the gate so when i want to visit my family i will have to go through their check point. So i’m asking them, how dare you moving the manar tv. to our building and endager the life of the innocent people, you are truly a terrorist organisation.

    1. Take this from the bright side…at least yor building now is a landmark…so when you want to order a food delivery all what you need to day is that your at the same building as Manar 🙂

      Am sorry though that your building might become a target if a war broke between Isreal and HA, theen again I heard that the buildings that got destroyed in Dahyeh has been rebuilt 10 times better than it were…so you might end up with a good upgrade hehehehehe

  14.  Avatar

    After the withdrawal of Israel, Hizbollah is no longer the party of God, it became the party of the devil.

    They eliminated lots of corrupt politicians but with them lots of innocent civiliants a mom, a dad , a brother , a sister.

    They consider that there so called struggle is more important than any living human being. They endager the life of everyday civiliants by living among them no one knows who they are except Israel.

    Israel and Hizbollah have no regard to the human life, they both treat it as a disposable asset.

    from a personal experience i will tell you a little story, they moved to our building in Beirut, without invitation, they installed lots of equipments on the roof of our residential building, transmitters and equipments that by medical certificate cause cancer to the residents, they constructed barricades on the front of the gate so when i want to visit my family i will have to go through their check point. So i’m asking them, how dare you moving the manar tv. to our building and endager the life of the innocent people, you are truly a terrorist organisation.

    1. Take this from the bright side…at least yor building now is a landmark…so when you want to order a food delivery all what you need to day is that your at the same building as Manar 🙂

      Am sorry though that your building might become a target if a war broke between Isreal and HA, theen again I heard that the buildings that got destroyed in Dahyeh has been rebuilt 10 times better than it were…so you might end up with a good upgrade hehehehehe

  15. Based on this report, Mr. Wissam Eid should always be remembered as a hero, and I hope that his surviving family is being well taken care of financially and by moral support.

    The following is for those who have posted comments to this article.

    I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.

    Lebanon is not, and has never been, a military power. Lebanon’s best attributes exists elsewhere.

    The mafia gains power and wealth by intimidation, but it starts with alleged promise of protection. If Lebanese people need to be protected from Israel, then Hezeb Allah (HA) is doing the correct thing by arming itself more powerful than the Lebanese army (even though not even a match against the Israeli army. So why?). But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel? Or is it a Mafia type ploy? Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.

    I think a logical analysis of the facts and the statements made by HA will tell you that HA’s interest is to take over the Lebanese government and make room for Iranian agenda in the region. If Iranian agenda is for the best interest of Lebanon, then HA is right and more power to them even using intimidation (but bloody murder? I don’t know about that). If not, then they are not defending Lebanon from Israeli aggression, but rather helping proclaim Iran as the Super Power in the region and becoming Iranian poppets. The only way Iran can do this is by proclaiming some type of victory over Israel. Now the battle is between Iran and those lovely people in Turkey. Good luck!

    The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.

    If non-HA Lebanese leaders would otherwise save Lebanon by brokering a peace treaty with Israel similar to those of Egypt and Jordan, and if doing so is the WRONG strategy and not for the best interest of Lebanon for the long term, then HA is correct in taking over the country. The question becomes how far are they willing to go. Bloody murder? Kill anyone that gets in your way. Who does that? Oh yeh, the Mafia.

    If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead. SO YES, HEZEB ALLAH HAS BECOME A MURDEROUS GANG NOT WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AND/OR PLACE IN LEBANESE LIFE AND POLITICS.

    The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    1. Leborigine Avatar

      You have made some very good points and I agree with most of them.
      But how do you convince some people who actually believe that HA did drive Israel out of the South?? You cannot argue with such individuals.

      1. “But how do you convince some people who actually believe that HA did drive Israel out of the South??”

        Yeah it was international resolutions and Israels’ benevolence and your negative attitude that drove Israel out of the south!

        1. Leborigine Avatar

          So in other words what you are trying to say is that HAs’ benevolence and again my negative attitude is what drove HA out of the Chouf mountains?

      2. Laborigine:

        Having discussed this issue with people with personal knowledge, I am convinced that HA’s bravery caused Israel to change its strategy in Lebanon and pull out. I have also learned that the majority of the Israelis did not believe or support that war for being an occupying force in a foreign land.

        I have heard from both sides of the argument from Israelies living here in Southern California. Most of them tell me that they did not support the war and don’t want anything to do with it. They say that is why they have come here.

        You would hope that the rest of the country follow their lead and do the right thing to end this bloodshed and give the Palestinians what they deserve.

      3. Laborigine:

        Having discussed this issue with people with personal knowledge, I am convinced that HA’s bravery caused Israel to change its strategy in Lebanon and pull out. I have also learned that the majority of the Israelis did not believe or support that war for being an occupying force in a foreign land.

        I have heard from both sides of the argument from Israelies living here in Southern California. Most of them tell me that they did not support the war and don’t want anything to do with it. They say that is why they have come here.

        You would hope that the rest of the country follow their lead and do the right thing to end this bloodshed and give the Palestinians what they deserve.

    2. “I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.”

      Listen to yourself. Is that what you call liberating Lebanon? Succumbing to Israels’ demands? How dignifying. If you can’t beat them, join them, right? You’re just like the rest of these dissolute human beings; a coward. And what absurd standards. Do you think it’s weapons that win wars? What is the point of weapons if your soldiers have no morale? Ask the worlds’ most superior army about their adventure in Vietnam and what their military power did for them. Is dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities winning a war?

      “But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel?”

      No, the Lebanese need to be protected from the Iranians because it’s the Iranians that are stealing Lebanese resources and conducting daily air raids and infiltrating all Lebanese sectors such as the Telecom Network!

      “Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.”

      They sure took over the country when they staged a SIT-IN for over a year. They sure took over the country when they handed over May 7 positions to the Lebanese Army. They sure took over the country when after the Doha Agreement, the glorious Fouad Siniora kept his position. They sure took over the country now that Hassan Nasrallah is Lebanons’ prime minister! You answer that!

      “The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.”

      You’re so sympathetic. I can see you’re committed to the Palestinian cause by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Israel will undoubtedly open their arms wide open for the Palestinian refugees after you resolve the issue. Such an accurate assessment!

      “After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead.”

      You mean like the reasonable majority who reversed the dim-witted law they drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events?

      “The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.”

      And that is exactly your problem. If you “don’t know”, then why have you concluded that Hezbollah don’t have a place in Lebanese life? Ignorance is bliss, right? Something to think about!

      Happy Thanksgiving.

      1. Leborigine Avatar

        You really have no idea what you are talking about, you label people based on their comments and you get very defensive. This is a place where we can have a discussion and a debate in a civilised manner, not to criticise and put people down.

        Dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities is not winning a war, but neither is using civilians as human shields.

        It is not dignifying to succumb to Israeli demands, but neither it is dignifying to succumb to syrian demands and the majority to HA demands.

        HA do not have to take over the country, they already control the country, so why should they take it over. An outlaw gets a safe passage from the airport and no one dares to arrest him when there is a legal warrant issued against him.

        Hassouna doen’t have to be PM, he has more power than the f%$k&n president. At least that way he does not have a 4 year term and he can do as he pleases.

        The Palestinians are not my problem and neither are they Lebanons problem at this stage. When Lebanon can stand on its own feet first, then we will worry about the palestinians.

        The telecom network is a government issue, and if the government wants to draft a law, then so be it. It can’t be run by a political party that does not give full disclosure to the government.

        Finally, it was the israelis’ who kidnapped two HA members in the south and we had to destroy our country’s infrastructure to go in and get them!

        Look, I really do not have a problem with HA and to be honest with you, nothing makes me prouder to have a force from my country who is able to stand in face of Israel, but what $hits me is their loyalty to syria and iran when it should be for Lebanon and only Lebanon. They also should respect the government, join the LAF and stop protecting criminals. The Lebanese people have had enough and we want a country that we can be proud of our sports heroes, musicians, entrepreuners, inventors, scientists, instead we are losing them to other countries because we have an unstable 10452 km2 backyard.

        1. “Dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities is not winning a war, but neither is using civilians as human shields.”

          Come on I’ve heard all this before by American and Israeli politicians. Stop regurgitating irrational statements. Southerners using southerners as human shields? Hezbollah using village members including family and relatives as human shields? Does this sound absurd to you?

          “HA do not have to take over the country, they already control the country, so why should they take it over. An outlaw gets a safe passage from the airport and no one dares to arrest him when there is a legal warrant issued against him.”

          Yeah a legal warrant. We saw what happened when one, sorry, four of those were issued in recent times. Lebanese judges hand them out like mentos!

          “Hassouna doen’t have to be PM, he has more power than the f%$k&n president. At least that way he does not have a 4 year term and he can do as he pleases.”

          Is this what you call “a debate in a civilised manner”?

          “The telecom network is a government issue, and if the government wants to draft a law, then so be it. It can’t be run by a political party that does not give full disclosure to the government.”

          When a Lebanese government is formed, they can draft anything they want. Part Israeli/Lebanese government won’t work.

          “Finally, it was the israelis’ who kidnapped two HA members in the south and we had to destroy our country’s infrastructure to go in and get them!”

          Finally, it was Hezbollah who had over a hundred Israelis buried in the south and Israel destroyed the countrys’ infrastructure to go in and get them!

          “Look, I really do not have a problem with HA and to be honest with you, nothing makes me prouder to have a force from my country who is able to stand in face of Israel, but what $hits me is their loyalty to syria and iran when it should be for Lebanon and only Lebanon. They also should respect the government, join the LAF and stop protecting criminals. The Lebanese people have had enough and we want a country that we can be proud of our sports heroes, musicians, entrepreuners, inventors, scientists, instead we are losing them to other countries because we have an unstable 10452 km2 backyard.”

          Don’t mix loyalty with allies. Iran and Syria have gained absolutely zero from Hezbollah. If anything it has caused them more damage globally by announcing Hezbollah as allies. Some Lebanese politicians couldn’t wait to get on the mic daily to repeat the same message, “Hezbollah are nothing but puppets of Iran and Syria”. So now that the Lebanese government has resumed friendly ties with Iran and Syria, does that mean that Lebanon is a puppet of Iran, Syria, USA, France, UK? In all honesty, would you join the LAF knowing that senior ranks were agents of Israel? Can you see the dilemma? Politicians, army generals, telecom technicians, civilians, all employed as agents by Israel aimed at targeting Lebanon and Hezbollah and your problem is Hezbollah? Why would Israel and US and UK be targeting them 24/7 if they weren’t a threat to them? When was the last time Lebanon caught an Iranian agent?

          Am I being defensive for good reason or not?

      2. Dear Nagdella:

        You don’t know me, but you call me a coward for proposing peace with your neighbor after a shameful and despicable 30 year bloodshed that took thousands of lives and separated even more families.

        Whether making peace with Israel is a cowardly act or throwing a “life saver” to the Lebanese people, Lebanon has no business fighting a war with Israel, but this does not mean that Lebanon should not arm to defend itself from Israeli aggression. You can’t force your point by calling people names and accuse them of being cowards. Indeed, you should make a convincing argument supported by undisputable facts and logic.

        I would think that a negative thinking person with compromised intelligence (present company excluded since this is not a personal attack against you) would jump to the conclusion that making peace with Israel would mean “Succumbing to Israel’s demands”. I am very sure that Lebanon has intelligent leaders who can broker a mutually beneficial agreement. I am thinking that prosperity and good fortune is born out of peace and understanding. Making peace with Israel would, in my opinion, open the door for better understanding to solve the existing problem regarding the Palestinians. Consequently, death and destruction comes out of hatred and war. Why do I know that? Because I feel it, and it consumes me. A day does not go by that I don’t think about what the Turks did to the Armenians, and I fantasize for that glorious day to take revenge. But you get my point. There is a time and place to fight a righteous war. Presently, the Armenians do not have the resources or the numbers to do it, and Lebanon has had enough for 30 years.

        Lebanon had enough. Other countries should take the burden of finding a way to give the Palestinians their home. Not Lebanon. This is my point. Shift the burden. If a Lebanese person wants to do more, then I truly encourage them to join a neighboring army who has the resources to fight the war.

        You say, “If you can’t beat them, join them, right?”. Again, making peace with your neighboring country does not mean you are joining them or bowing to them. That would be the wrong conclusion coming from someone who does not have any business in decision making. See, explanation above. Additionally, it is not an issue of “if” you can’t beat Israel. The sad truth is that Lebanon can not beat Israel. Am I like other dissolute human beings for admitting the obvious that the “King is not wearing any clothes”? Or are you a dissolute human being to think that you can play God and subject the good Lebanese people for another 30 years of shameful murder, destruction and mass exodus. “AAIB ALEYKON”.

        Most wars were and still are being won by superior weaponry. Don’t confuse yourself with a soldier’s morals and the weapon he fires. Soldiers at war do not load their guns with morals. That comes with the individual and the reason why he is firing his gun. He either has it or not. Vietnam was not a righteous war. On the other hand had the Americans, Europe or the rest of the Arab world declared war and/or engaged the murdering Turks, then that would have been a righteous war. In that instant you are combining weaponry with morals. Think about that and shift the burden from Lebanon.

        LEBANON HAD ENOUGH. LEBANON NEEDS TO REPAIR AND REHABILITATE ITSELF. AND YES LEBANON NEEDS TO LIBERATE ITSELF BY MAKING PEACE JUST AS EGYPT DID. LEBANON NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE AND FIXING ITS INFRASTRUCTURE.

        I am thinking that if you make peace with your neighbor, he will not steal from you, conduct daily air raids and/or infiltrate your sectors and society. But Iran is not doing that. Oh, Iran just wants you to keep on fighting a war with your blood that you should have no business fighting anymore. How nice.

        Nobody in Lebanon wants to be bullied by Israel. If Israel’s motive is to take over Lebanon and plunder her resources, then the Lebanese people should learn their lesson from the Syrian experience. I WOULDN’T WANT ANY COUNTRY TO INTERFERE WITH MY BUSINESS UNLESS BY NECESSITY OF INVITATION.

        If Lebanon decides to sign a peace treaty with Israel, it does not mean that Lebanon is allowing the Palestinians to be thrown under the bus. MY POINT IS THAT LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS DISPUTE. Let other Arab countries take on that responsibility and lose their own blood in an effort to provide for the Palestinian people. LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOSE MORE BLOOD.

        About taking over the country, (1) staging a SIT-IN for over a year was a pretty a long time and intimidating; (2) handing over something like the “May 7 positions” to the Lebanese Army was the right thing to do; (3) it was Fouad Siniora privilege by way of elections to keep his position; and (4) if Mr. Hassan Nasrallah wants to run for Prime Minister of Lebanon to serve purely and collectively Lebanese interests, I’ll vote for him.

        Regarding the reversal of the alleged dim-witted law drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events, I do not have intimate knowledge nor it matters to the point that I raised. It sounds like the parliament and/or law makers reversed the law. Law makers are hardly the “people that would be persuaded without force allowing the majority of the people to follow their lead”. So, your example is irrelevant to my point. Law makers make law for number of reasons. If one is corrupt, the wrong law could be enacted for the wrong reason. Otherwise, I am thinking that the basket does not contain with all bad apples. You just need to make sure that fair, unbiased, ethical and uncorrupted people are elected in positions of power and decision making.

        When I ask the question “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? That is because I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer to that particular situation. What happens at the boarder is not the basis for my conclusion that “Hezbollah no longer has a place in Lebanese life”. That ship has already sailed and the people have come to the correct conclusion about HA’s intentions. What exactly goes on at the boarder is a small part of what Hezeb Allah has done in the greater Lebanon, including Beirut.

        Not knowing something becomes ignorance if you do not make an effort to educate yourself. To me, ignorance is unacceptable. Consequently, not knowing something is a reason for me to ask more questions and unfold the truth. Time permitting of course. Think about that.

        Thank you for your interest in my comment.

        1. “You don’t know me, but you call me a coward for proposing peace with your neighbor”

          No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israels’ military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israels’ perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

          “Making peace with Israel would, in my opinion, open the door for better understanding to solve the existing problem regarding the Palestinians.”

          Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?

          “Lebanon had enough. Other countries should take the burden of finding a way to give the Palestinians their home. Not Lebanon. This is my point. Shift the burden. If a Lebanese person wants to do more, then I truly encourage them to join a neighboring army who has the resources to fight the war.”

          It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

          “The sad truth is that Lebanon can not beat Israel. Am I like other dissolute human beings for admitting the obvious that the “King is not wearing any clothes”? Or are you a dissolute human being to think that you can play God and subject the good Lebanese people for another 30 years of shameful murder, destruction and mass exodus. “AAIB ALEYKON”.”

          Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanons’ airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

          “Most wars were and still are being won by superior weaponry. Don’t confuse yourself with a soldier’s morals and the weapon he fires. Soldiers at war do not load their guns with morals.”

          No one said anything about morals. I mentioned morale. Something completely different. I was referring to the soldiers’ confidence, self-esteem, spirit, courage etc This is what wins wars which is why I used Vietnam as an example. These “superior weaponry” neither worked in Vietnam nor are they working in Iraq or Afghanistan or Lebanon.

          “AND YES LEBANON NEEDS TO LIBERATE ITSELF BY MAKING PEACE JUST AS EGYPT DID.”

          Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

          “But Iran is not doing that. Oh, Iran just wants you to keep on fighting a war with your blood that you should have no business fighting anymore. How nice.”

          Is it the Iranians that are living in the south or Lebanese? Southerners were fighting Israel long before Iran appeared in the scene so your claims are nothing but baseless.

          “About taking over the country, (1) staging a SIT-IN for over a year was a pretty a long time and intimidating; (2) handing over something like the “May 7 positions” to the Lebanese Army was the right thing to do; (3) it was Fouad Siniora privilege by way of elections to keep his position; and (4) if Mr. Hassan Nasrallah wants to run for Prime Minister of Lebanon to serve purely and collectively Lebanese interests, I’ll vote for him.”

          You have completely missed the point in regards to why I mentioned the above statements. I was just showing you proof that if Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

          “Regarding the reversal of the alleged dim-witted law drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events, I do not have intimate knowledge nor it matters to the point that I raised. It sounds like the parliament and/or law makers reversed the law.”

          You do not have intimate knowledge BUT it doesn’t matter to the point you raised? Hahaha.. You’re a funny character. No it does matter to the point. Allow me to refresh your memory. These alleged “reasonable majority” drafted an illegitimate dim-witted law targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network and they only reversed it by force. So when you say, “then reasonable people will be persuaded without force”, I guess you deem the March 14 ‘unreasonable people’!

          “You just need to make sure that fair, unbiased, ethical and uncorrupted people are elected in positions of power and decision making.”

          You just need to make sure you don’t pay allegiance to unfair, biased, unethical, and corrupted people who are selected in positions of power and decision making.

          “That ship has already sailed and the people have come to the correct conclusion about HA’s intentions. What exactly goes on at the boarder is a small part of what Hezeb Allah has done in the greater Lebanon, including Beirut.”

          On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!

          “Not knowing something becomes ignorance if you do not make an effort to educate yourself. To me, ignorance is unacceptable. Consequently, not knowing something is a reason for me to ask more questions and unfold the truth. Time permitting of course. Think about that.”

          Good for you. Maybe you should unfold a little further before you make unsound conclusions. Think about that!

    3. LucyintheSkywithDiamonds Avatar
      LucyintheSkywithDiamonds

      Israel doesn’t want to, and will never want to occupy Lebanon. Israel is not Syria. We just want our land and peace in it. The only reason why Israel was ever in your country was because of Palestinian rockets during your civil war, and because of Hizballah rockets in 2006. Israel made many mistakes on both occasions, sometimes terrible mistakes. But I guarantee you, and I know what I am talking about, Israel does not want to occupy Lebanon. The current talk in the United States and in Israel is about strengthening the Lebanese Army.

      Hizballa, along with Syria of course, are a far greater threat to your country. I am not sure if Iran wants direct occupation but Iran wants influence in the Middle East, yes.

      A peace agreement with Israel will not solve your issue as you say (even though I am praying for such a day to come) because sectarianism is your issue. The agreement which ended the civil war is your issue since it allowed Hizballah to stay armed. You cannot have the civil war back so this is your dilemma, how do you fix this? Israel believe me, also wants stable neighbors. To me it seems like Mr Hariri the son is threading on egg shells here. He knows well who has killed his father and I hope that his reaction is a product of logical long-term strategy to get even, and not lack of care for his father’s memory or due to power hunger.

      And you are right, nobody cares about the Palestinians. I am not saying that Israel does (even though believe me that many people here actually care), but their own leaders usually are just power hungry and don’t care either. Both the Palestinians, and as this article shows you Israel too – are used as scapegoats.

      I hear occupation occupation of the Palestinians here, and yes they should have more. Most people in Israel nowadays agree that there needs to be two states, the only question is the borders. So what do they mean when they say we are occupying their land? (not you, but others say this). Do they want to send us back to Europe, the US, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and all places that we came from? What about those Jews who always lived here, even after we were kicked out by the Romans 2000 years ago? Look at the Hebrew language – it’s not a European language. Where are we supposed to go?? They didn’t want us in Europe, they have been killing us for centuries in Europe like no other people have been killed, then after the Holocaust they shuffled us around Cyprus and other islands and places, nobody wanted us. In this territory, there were Jews fighting the British already and it’s the only land we had. Do you know how much land were the Palestinians offered at some point? But no, they want 100 %!

      It’s a complicated situation, but issues about nations and people are always complicated! Politics is complicated. So it’s not an easy conflict to resolve and Israel has a lot of improvement to do I agree. Btw, there are Israeli Arabs who live all over Israel, about 20% and even when there is a Palestinian state they will stay here if they want to.

      Sorry about the rant, but I just want to reassure people that no matter what happens – and I hope for peace both in Lebanon and for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – Israel doesn’t intend to and will never occupy Lebanon.

  16. Based on this report, Mr. Wissam Eid should always be remembered as a hero, and I hope that his surviving family is being well taken care of financially and by moral support.

    The following is for those who have posted comments to this article.

    I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.

    Lebanon is not, and has never been, a military power. Lebanon’s best attributes exists elsewhere.

    The mafia gains power and wealth by intimidation, but it starts with alleged promise of protection. If Lebanese people need to be protected from Israel, then Hezeb Allah (HA) is doing the correct thing by arming itself more powerful than the Lebanese army (even though not even a match against the Israeli army. So why?). But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel? Or is it a Mafia type ploy? Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.

    I think a logical analysis of the facts and the statements made by HA will tell you that HA’s interest is to take over the Lebanese government and make room for Iranian agenda in the region. If Iranian agenda is for the best interest of Lebanon, then HA is right and more power to them even using intimidation (but bloody murder? I don’t know about that). If not, then they are not defending Lebanon from Israeli aggression, but rather helping proclaim Iran as the Super Power in the region and becoming Iranian poppets. The only way Iran can do this is by proclaiming some type of victory over Israel. Now the battle is between Iran and those lovely people in Turkey. Good luck!

    The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.

    If non-HA Lebanese leaders would otherwise save Lebanon by brokering a peace treaty with Israel similar to those of Egypt and Jordan, and if doing so is the WRONG strategy and not for the best interest of Lebanon for the long term, then HA is correct in taking over the country. The question becomes how far are they willing to go. Bloody murder? Kill anyone that gets in your way. Who does that? Oh yeh, the Mafia.

    If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead. SO YES, HEZEB ALLAH HAS BECOME A MURDEROUS GANG NOT WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AND/OR PLACE IN LEBANESE LIFE AND POLITICS.

    The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    1. Leborigine Avatar

      You have made some very good points and I agree with most of them.
      But how do you convince some people who actually believe that HA did drive Israel out of the South?? You cannot argue with such individuals.

      1. “But how do you convince some people who actually believe that HA did drive Israel out of the South??”

        Yeah it was international resolutions and Israels’ benevolence and your negative attitude that drove Israel out of the south!

        1. Leborigine Avatar

          So in other words what you are trying to say is that HAs’ benevolence and again my negative attitude is what drove HA out of the Chouf mountains?

      2. Laborigine:

        Having discussed this issue with people with personal knowledge, I am convinced that HA’s bravery caused Israel to change its strategy in Lebanon and pull out. I have also learned that the majority of the Israelis did not believe or support that war for being an occupying force in a foreign land.

        I have heard from both sides of the argument from Israelies living here in Southern California. Most of them tell me that they did not support the war and don’t want anything to do with it. They say that is why they have come here.

        You would hope that the rest of the country follow their lead and do the right thing to end this bloodshed and give the Palestinians what they deserve.

    2. “I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.”

      Listen to yourself. Is that what you call liberating Lebanon? Succumbing to Israels’ demands? How dignifying. If you can’t beat them, join them, right? You’re just like the rest of these dissolute human beings; a coward. And what absurd standards. Do you think it’s weapons that win wars? What is the point of weapons if your soldiers have no morale? Ask the worlds’ most superior army about their adventure in Vietnam and what their military power did for them. Is dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities winning a war?

      “But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel?”

      No, the Lebanese need to be protected from the Iranians because it’s the Iranians that are stealing Lebanese resources and conducting daily air raids and infiltrating all Lebanese sectors such as the Telecom Network!

      “Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.”

      They sure took over the country when they staged a SIT-IN for over a year. They sure took over the country when they handed over May 7 positions to the Lebanese Army. They sure took over the country when after the Doha Agreement, the glorious Fouad Siniora kept his position. They sure took over the country now that Hassan Nasrallah is Lebanons’ prime minister! You answer that!

      “The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.”

      You’re so sympathetic. I can see you’re committed to the Palestinian cause by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Israel will undoubtedly open their arms wide open for the Palestinian refugees after you resolve the issue. Such an accurate assessment!

      “After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead.”

      You mean like the reasonable majority who reversed the dim-witted law they drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events?

      “The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.”

      And that is exactly your problem. If you “don’t know”, then why have you concluded that Hezbollah don’t have a place in Lebanese life? Ignorance is bliss, right? Something to think about!

      Happy Thanksgiving.

      1. Leborigine Avatar

        You really have no idea what you are talking about, you label people based on their comments and you get very defensive. This is a place where we can have a discussion and a debate in a civilised manner, not to criticise and put people down.

        Dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities is not winning a war, but neither is using civilians as human shields.

        It is not dignifying to succumb to Israeli demands, but neither it is dignifying to succumb to syrian demands and the majority to HA demands.

        HA do not have to take over the country, they already control the country, so why should they take it over. An outlaw gets a safe passage from the airport and no one dares to arrest him when there is a legal warrant issued against him.

        Hassouna doen’t have to be PM, he has more power than the f%$k&n president. At least that way he does not have a 4 year term and he can do as he pleases.

        The Palestinians are not my problem and neither are they Lebanons problem at this stage. When Lebanon can stand on its own feet first, then we will worry about the palestinians.

        The telecom network is a government issue, and if the government wants to draft a law, then so be it. It can’t be run by a political party that does not give full disclosure to the government.

        Finally, it was the israelis’ who kidnapped two HA members in the south and we had to destroy our country’s infrastructure to go in and get them!

        Look, I really do not have a problem with HA and to be honest with you, nothing makes me prouder to have a force from my country who is able to stand in face of Israel, but what $hits me is their loyalty to syria and iran when it should be for Lebanon and only Lebanon. They also should respect the government, join the LAF and stop protecting criminals. The Lebanese people have had enough and we want a country that we can be proud of our sports heroes, musicians, entrepreuners, inventors, scientists, instead we are losing them to other countries because we have an unstable 10452 km2 backyard.

        1. “Dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities is not winning a war, but neither is using civilians as human shields.”

          Come on I’ve heard all this before by American and Israeli politicians. Stop regurgitating irrational statements. Southerners using southerners as human shields? Hezbollah using village members including family and relatives as human shields? Does this sound absurd to you?

          “HA do not have to take over the country, they already control the country, so why should they take it over. An outlaw gets a safe passage from the airport and no one dares to arrest him when there is a legal warrant issued against him.”

          Yeah a legal warrant. We saw what happened when one, sorry, four of those were issued in recent times. Lebanese judges hand them out like mentos!

          “Hassouna doen’t have to be PM, he has more power than the f%$k&n president. At least that way he does not have a 4 year term and he can do as he pleases.”

          Is this what you call “a debate in a civilised manner”?

          “The telecom network is a government issue, and if the government wants to draft a law, then so be it. It can’t be run by a political party that does not give full disclosure to the government.”

          When a Lebanese government is formed, they can draft anything they want. Part Israeli/Lebanese government won’t work.

          “Finally, it was the israelis’ who kidnapped two HA members in the south and we had to destroy our country’s infrastructure to go in and get them!”

          Finally, it was Hezbollah who had over a hundred Israelis buried in the south and Israel destroyed the countrys’ infrastructure to go in and get them!

          “Look, I really do not have a problem with HA and to be honest with you, nothing makes me prouder to have a force from my country who is able to stand in face of Israel, but what $hits me is their loyalty to syria and iran when it should be for Lebanon and only Lebanon. They also should respect the government, join the LAF and stop protecting criminals. The Lebanese people have had enough and we want a country that we can be proud of our sports heroes, musicians, entrepreuners, inventors, scientists, instead we are losing them to other countries because we have an unstable 10452 km2 backyard.”

          Don’t mix loyalty with allies. Iran and Syria have gained absolutely zero from Hezbollah. If anything it has caused them more damage globally by announcing Hezbollah as allies. Some Lebanese politicians couldn’t wait to get on the mic daily to repeat the same message, “Hezbollah are nothing but puppets of Iran and Syria”. So now that the Lebanese government has resumed friendly ties with Iran and Syria, does that mean that Lebanon is a puppet of Iran, Syria, USA, France, UK? In all honesty, would you join the LAF knowing that senior ranks were agents of Israel? Can you see the dilemma? Politicians, army generals, telecom technicians, civilians, all employed as agents by Israel aimed at targeting Lebanon and Hezbollah and your problem is Hezbollah? Why would Israel and US and UK be targeting them 24/7 if they weren’t a threat to them? When was the last time Lebanon caught an Iranian agent?

          Am I being defensive for good reason or not?

      2. Dear Nagdella:

        You don’t know me, but you call me a coward for proposing peace with your neighbor after a shameful and despicable 30 year bloodshed that took thousands of lives and separated even more families.

        Whether making peace with Israel is a cowardly act or throwing a “life saver” to the Lebanese people, Lebanon has no business fighting a war with Israel, but this does not mean that Lebanon should not arm to defend itself from Israeli aggression. You can’t force your point by calling people names and accuse them of being cowards. Indeed, you should make a convincing argument supported by undisputable facts and logic.

        I would think that a negative thinking person with compromised intelligence (present company excluded since this is not a personal attack against you) would jump to the conclusion that making peace with Israel would mean “Succumbing to Israel’s demands”. I am very sure that Lebanon has intelligent leaders who can broker a mutually beneficial agreement. I am thinking that prosperity and good fortune is born out of peace and understanding. Making peace with Israel would, in my opinion, open the door for better understanding to solve the existing problem regarding the Palestinians. Consequently, death and destruction comes out of hatred and war. Why do I know that? Because I feel it, and it consumes me. A day does not go by that I don’t think about what the Turks did to the Armenians, and I fantasize for that glorious day to take revenge. But you get my point. There is a time and place to fight a righteous war. Presently, the Armenians do not have the resources or the numbers to do it, and Lebanon has had enough for 30 years.

        Lebanon had enough. Other countries should take the burden of finding a way to give the Palestinians their home. Not Lebanon. This is my point. Shift the burden. If a Lebanese person wants to do more, then I truly encourage them to join a neighboring army who has the resources to fight the war.

        You say, “If you can’t beat them, join them, right?”. Again, making peace with your neighboring country does not mean you are joining them or bowing to them. That would be the wrong conclusion coming from someone who does not have any business in decision making. See, explanation above. Additionally, it is not an issue of “if” you can’t beat Israel. The sad truth is that Lebanon can not beat Israel. Am I like other dissolute human beings for admitting the obvious that the “King is not wearing any clothes”? Or are you a dissolute human being to think that you can play God and subject the good Lebanese people for another 30 years of shameful murder, destruction and mass exodus. “AAIB ALEYKON”.

        Most wars were and still are being won by superior weaponry. Don’t confuse yourself with a soldier’s morals and the weapon he fires. Soldiers at war do not load their guns with morals. That comes with the individual and the reason why he is firing his gun. He either has it or not. Vietnam was not a righteous war. On the other hand had the Americans, Europe or the rest of the Arab world declared war and/or engaged the murdering Turks, then that would have been a righteous war. In that instant you are combining weaponry with morals. Think about that and shift the burden from Lebanon.

        LEBANON HAD ENOUGH. LEBANON NEEDS TO REPAIR AND REHABILITATE ITSELF. AND YES LEBANON NEEDS TO LIBERATE ITSELF BY MAKING PEACE JUST AS EGYPT DID. LEBANON NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE AND FIXING ITS INFRASTRUCTURE.

        I am thinking that if you make peace with your neighbor, he will not steal from you, conduct daily air raids and/or infiltrate your sectors and society. But Iran is not doing that. Oh, Iran just wants you to keep on fighting a war with your blood that you should have no business fighting anymore. How nice.

        Nobody in Lebanon wants to be bullied by Israel. If Israel’s motive is to take over Lebanon and plunder her resources, then the Lebanese people should learn their lesson from the Syrian experience. I WOULDN’T WANT ANY COUNTRY TO INTERFERE WITH MY BUSINESS UNLESS BY NECESSITY OF INVITATION.

        If Lebanon decides to sign a peace treaty with Israel, it does not mean that Lebanon is allowing the Palestinians to be thrown under the bus. MY POINT IS THAT LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS DISPUTE. Let other Arab countries take on that responsibility and lose their own blood in an effort to provide for the Palestinian people. LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOSE MORE BLOOD.

        About taking over the country, (1) staging a SIT-IN for over a year was a pretty a long time and intimidating; (2) handing over something like the “May 7 positions” to the Lebanese Army was the right thing to do; (3) it was Fouad Siniora privilege by way of elections to keep his position; and (4) if Mr. Hassan Nasrallah wants to run for Prime Minister of Lebanon to serve purely and collectively Lebanese interests, I’ll vote for him.

        Regarding the reversal of the alleged dim-witted law drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events, I do not have intimate knowledge nor it matters to the point that I raised. It sounds like the parliament and/or law makers reversed the law. Law makers are hardly the “people that would be persuaded without force allowing the majority of the people to follow their lead”. So, your example is irrelevant to my point. Law makers make law for number of reasons. If one is corrupt, the wrong law could be enacted for the wrong reason. Otherwise, I am thinking that the basket does not contain with all bad apples. You just need to make sure that fair, unbiased, ethical and uncorrupted people are elected in positions of power and decision making.

        When I ask the question “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? That is because I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer to that particular situation. What happens at the boarder is not the basis for my conclusion that “Hezbollah no longer has a place in Lebanese life”. That ship has already sailed and the people have come to the correct conclusion about HA’s intentions. What exactly goes on at the boarder is a small part of what Hezeb Allah has done in the greater Lebanon, including Beirut.

        Not knowing something becomes ignorance if you do not make an effort to educate yourself. To me, ignorance is unacceptable. Consequently, not knowing something is a reason for me to ask more questions and unfold the truth. Time permitting of course. Think about that.

        Thank you for your interest in my comment.

        1. “You don’t know me, but you call me a coward for proposing peace with your neighbor”

          No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israels’ military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israels’ perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

          “Making peace with Israel would, in my opinion, open the door for better understanding to solve the existing problem regarding the Palestinians.”

          Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?

          “Lebanon had enough. Other countries should take the burden of finding a way to give the Palestinians their home. Not Lebanon. This is my point. Shift the burden. If a Lebanese person wants to do more, then I truly encourage them to join a neighboring army who has the resources to fight the war.”

          It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

          “The sad truth is that Lebanon can not beat Israel. Am I like other dissolute human beings for admitting the obvious that the “King is not wearing any clothes”? Or are you a dissolute human being to think that you can play God and subject the good Lebanese people for another 30 years of shameful murder, destruction and mass exodus. “AAIB ALEYKON”.”

          Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanons’ airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

          “Most wars were and still are being won by superior weaponry. Don’t confuse yourself with a soldier’s morals and the weapon he fires. Soldiers at war do not load their guns with morals.”

          No one said anything about morals. I mentioned morale. Something completely different. I was referring to the soldiers’ confidence, self-esteem, spirit, courage etc This is what wins wars which is why I used Vietnam as an example. These “superior weaponry” neither worked in Vietnam nor are they working in Iraq or Afghanistan or Lebanon.

          “AND YES LEBANON NEEDS TO LIBERATE ITSELF BY MAKING PEACE JUST AS EGYPT DID.”

          Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

          “But Iran is not doing that. Oh, Iran just wants you to keep on fighting a war with your blood that you should have no business fighting anymore. How nice.”

          Is it the Iranians that are living in the south or Lebanese? Southerners were fighting Israel long before Iran appeared in the scene so your claims are nothing but baseless.

          “About taking over the country, (1) staging a SIT-IN for over a year was a pretty a long time and intimidating; (2) handing over something like the “May 7 positions” to the Lebanese Army was the right thing to do; (3) it was Fouad Siniora privilege by way of elections to keep his position; and (4) if Mr. Hassan Nasrallah wants to run for Prime Minister of Lebanon to serve purely and collectively Lebanese interests, I’ll vote for him.”

          You have completely missed the point in regards to why I mentioned the above statements. I was just showing you proof that if Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

          “Regarding the reversal of the alleged dim-witted law drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events, I do not have intimate knowledge nor it matters to the point that I raised. It sounds like the parliament and/or law makers reversed the law.”

          You do not have intimate knowledge BUT it doesn’t matter to the point you raised? Hahaha.. You’re a funny character. No it does matter to the point. Allow me to refresh your memory. These alleged “reasonable majority” drafted an illegitimate dim-witted law targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network and they only reversed it by force. So when you say, “then reasonable people will be persuaded without force”, I guess you deem the March 14 ‘unreasonable people’!

          “You just need to make sure that fair, unbiased, ethical and uncorrupted people are elected in positions of power and decision making.”

          You just need to make sure you don’t pay allegiance to unfair, biased, unethical, and corrupted people who are selected in positions of power and decision making.

          “That ship has already sailed and the people have come to the correct conclusion about HA’s intentions. What exactly goes on at the boarder is a small part of what Hezeb Allah has done in the greater Lebanon, including Beirut.”

          On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!

          “Not knowing something becomes ignorance if you do not make an effort to educate yourself. To me, ignorance is unacceptable. Consequently, not knowing something is a reason for me to ask more questions and unfold the truth. Time permitting of course. Think about that.”

          Good for you. Maybe you should unfold a little further before you make unsound conclusions. Think about that!

  17. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
    VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

    Based on this report, Mr. Wissam Eid should always be remembered as a hero, and I hope that his surviving family is being well taken care of financially and by moral support.

    The following is for those who have posted comments to this article.

    I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.

    Lebanon is not, and has never been, a military power. Lebanon’s best attributes exists elsewhere.

    The mafia gains power and wealth by intimidation, but it starts with alleged promise of protection. If Lebanese people need to be protected from Israel, then Hezeb Allah (HA) is doing the correct thing by arming itself more powerful than the Lebanese army (even though not even a match against the Israeli army. So why?). But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel? Or is it a Mafia type ploy? Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.

    I think a logical analysis of the facts and the statements made by HA will tell you that HA’s interest is to take over the Lebanese government and make room for Iranian agenda in the region. If Iranian agenda is for the best interest of Lebanon, then HA is right and more power to them even using intimidation (but bloody murder? I don’t know about that). If not, then they are not defending Lebanon from Israeli aggression, but rather helping proclaim Iran as the Super Power in the region and becoming Iranian poppets. The only way Iran can do this is by proclaiming some type of victory over Israel. Now the battle is between Iran and those lovely people in Turkey. Good luck!

    The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.

    If non-HA Lebanese leaders would otherwise save Lebanon by brokering a peace treaty with Israel similar to those of Egypt and Jordan, and if doing so is the WRONG strategy and not for the best interest of Lebanon for the long term, then HA is correct in taking over the country. The question becomes how far are they willing to go. Bloody murder? Kill anyone that gets in your way. Who does that? Oh yeh, the Mafia.

    If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead. SO YES, HEZEB ALLAH HAS BECOME A MURDEROUS GANG NOT WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AND/OR PLACE IN LEBANESE LIFE AND POLITICS.

    The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    1.  Avatar

      You have made some very good points and I agree with most of them.

      But how do you convince some people who actually believe that HA did drive Israel out of the South?? You cannot argue with such individuals.

      1.  Avatar

        “But how do you convince some people who actually believe that HA did drive Israel out of the South??”

        Yeah it was international resolutions and Israels’ benevolence and your negative attitude that drove Israel out of the south!

        1.  Avatar

          So in other words what you are trying to say is that HAs’ benevolence and again my negative attitude is what drove HA out of the Chouf mountains?

      2. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
        VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

        Laborigine:

        Having discussed this issue with people with personal knowledge, I am convinced that HA’s bravery caused Israel to change its strategy in Lebanon and pull out. I have also learned that the majority of the Israelis did not believe or support that war for being an occupying force in a foreign land.

        I have heard from both sides of the argument from Israelies living here in Southern California. Most of them tell me that they did not support the war and don’t want anything to do with it. They say that is why they have come here.

        You would hope that the rest of the country follow their lead and do the right thing to end this bloodshed and give the Palestinians what they deserve.

      3. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
        VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

        Laborigine:

        Having discussed this issue with people with personal knowledge, I am convinced that HA’s bravery caused Israel to change its strategy in Lebanon and pull out. I have also learned that the majority of the Israelis did not believe or support that war for being an occupying force in a foreign land.

        I have heard from both sides of the argument from Israelies living here in Southern California. Most of them tell me that they did not support the war and don’t want anything to do with it. They say that is why they have come here.

        You would hope that the rest of the country follow their lead and do the right thing to end this bloodshed and give the Palestinians what they deserve.

    2.  Avatar

      “I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.”

      Listen to yourself. Is that what you call liberating Lebanon? Succumbing to Israels’ demands? How dignifying. If you can’t beat them, join them, right? You’re just like the rest of these dissolute human beings; a coward. And what absurd standards. Do you think it’s weapons that win wars? What is the point of weapons if your soldiers have no morale? Ask the worlds’ most superior army about their adventure in Vietnam and what their military power did for them. Is dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities winning a war?

      “But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel?”

      No, the Lebanese need to be protected from the Iranians because it’s the Iranians that are stealing Lebanese resources and conducting daily air raids and infiltrating all Lebanese sectors such as the Telecom Network!

      “Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.”

      They sure took over the country when they staged a SIT-IN for over a year. They sure took over the country when they handed over May 7 positions to the Lebanese Army. They sure took over the country when after the Doha Agreement, the glorious Fouad Siniora kept his position. They sure took over the country now that Hassan Nasrallah is Lebanons’ prime minister! You answer that!

      “The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.”

      You’re so sympathetic. I can see you’re committed to the Palestinian cause by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Israel will undoubtedly open their arms wide open for the Palestinian refugees after you resolve the issue. Such an accurate assessment!

      “After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead.”

      You mean like the reasonable majority who reversed the dim-witted law they drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events?

      “The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.”

      And that is exactly your problem. If you “don’t know”, then why have you concluded that Hezbollah don’t have a place in Lebanese life? Ignorance is bliss, right? Something to think about!

      Happy Thanksgiving.

      1.  Avatar

        You really have no idea what you are talking about, you label people based on their comments and you get very defensive. This is a place where we can have a discussion and a debate in a civilised manner, not to criticise and put people down.

        Dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities is not winning a war, but neither is using civilians as human shields.

        It is not dignifying to succumb to Israeli demands, but neither it is dignifying to succumb to syrian demands and the majority to HA demands.

        HA do not have to take over the country, they already control the country, so why should they take it over. An outlaw gets a safe passage from the airport and no one dares to arrest him when there is a legal warrant issued against him.

        Hassouna doen’t have to be PM, he has more power than the f%$k&n president. At least that way he does not have a 4 year term and he can do as he pleases.

        The Palestinians are not my problem and neither are they Lebanons problem at this stage. When Lebanon can stand on its own feet first, then we will worry about the palestinians.

        The telecom network is a government issue, and if the government wants to draft a law, then so be it. It can’t be run by a political party that does not give full disclosure to the government.

        Finally, it was the israelis’ who kidnapped two HA members in the south and we had to destroy our country’s infrastructure to go in and get them!

        Look, I really do not have a problem with HA and to be honest with you, nothing makes me prouder to have a force from my country who is able to defeat Israel, but what $hits me is their loyalty to syria and iran when it should be for Lebanon and only Lebanon. They also should respect the government, join the LAF and stop protecting criminals. The Lebanese people have had enough and we want a country that we can be proud of our sports heroes, musicians, entrepreuners, inventors, scientists, instead we are losing them to other countries because we have an unstable 10452 km2 backyard.

        1.  Avatar

          “Dropping two atom bombs on civilian cities is not winning a war, but neither is using civilians as human shields.”

          Come on I’ve heard all this before by American and Israeli politicians. Stop regurgitating irrational statements. Southerners using southerners as human shields? Hezbollah using village members including family and relatives as human shields? Does this sound absurd to you?

          “HA do not have to take over the country, they already control the country, so why should they take it over. An outlaw gets a safe passage from the airport and no one dares to arrest him when there is a legal warrant issued against him.”

          Yeah a legal warrant. We saw what happened when one, sorry, four of those were issued in recent times. Lebanese judges hand them out like mentos!

          “Hassouna doen’t have to be PM, he has more power than the f%$k&n president. At least that way he does not have a 4 year term and he can do as he pleases.”

          Is this what you call “a debate in a civilised manner”?

          “The telecom network is a government issue, and if the government wants to draft a law, then so be it. It can’t be run by a political party that does not give full disclosure to the government.”

          When a Lebanese government is formed, they can draft anything they want. Part Israeli/Lebanese government won’t work.

          “Finally, it was the israelis’ who kidnapped two HA members in the south and we had to destroy our country’s infrastructure to go in and get them!”

          Finally, it was Hezbollah who had over a hundred Israelis buried in the south and Israel destroyed the countrys’ infrastructure to go in and get them!

          “Look, I really do not have a problem with HA and to be honest with you, nothing makes me prouder to have a force from my country who is able to stand in face of Israel, but what $hits me is their loyalty to syria and iran when it should be for Lebanon and only Lebanon. They also should respect the government, join the LAF and stop protecting criminals. The Lebanese people have had enough and we want a country that we can be proud of our sports heroes, musicians, entrepreuners, inventors, scientists, instead we are losing them to other countries because we have an unstable 10452 km2 backyard.”

          Don’t mix loyalty with allies. Iran and Syria have gained absolutely zero from Hezbollah. If anything it has caused them more damage globally by announcing Hezbollah as allies. Some Lebanese politicians couldn’t wait to get on the mic daily to repeat the same message, “Hezbollah are nothing but puppets of Iran and Syria”. So now that the Lebanese government has resumed friendly ties with Iran and Syria, does that mean that Lebanon is a puppet of Iran, Syria, USA, France, UK? In all honesty, would you join the LAF knowing that senior ranks were agents of Israel? Can you see the dilemma? Politicians, army generals, telecom technicians, civilians, all employed as agents by Israel aimed at targeting Lebanon and Hezbollah and your problem is Hezbollah? Why would Israel and US and UK be targeting them 24/7 if they weren’t a threat to them? When was the last time Lebanon caught an Iranian agent?

          Am I being defensive for good reason or not?

      2. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
        VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

        Dear Nagdella:

        You don’t know me, but you call me a coward for proposing peace with your neighbor after a shameful and despicable 30 year bloodshed that took thousands of lives and separated even more families.

        Whether making peace with Israel is a cowardly act or throwing a “life saver” to the Lebanese people, Lebanon has no business fighting a war with Israel, but this does not mean that Lebanon should not arm to defend itself from Israeli aggression. You can’t force your point by calling people names and accuse them of being cowards. Indeed, you should make a convincing argument supported by undisputable facts and logic.

        I would think that a negative thinking person with compromised intelligence (present company excluded since this is not a personal attack against you) would jump to the conclusion that making peace with Israel would mean “Succumbing to Israel’s demands”. I am very sure that Lebanon has intelligent leaders who can broker a mutually beneficial agreement. I am thinking that prosperity and good fortune is born out of peace and understanding. Making peace with Israel would, in my opinion, open the door for better understanding to solve the existing problem regarding the Palestinians. Consequently, death and destruction comes out of hatred and war. Why do I know that? Because I feel it, and it consumes me. A day does not go by that I don’t think about what the Turks did to the Armenians, and I fantasize for that glorious day to take revenge. But you get my point. There is a time and place to fight a righteous war. Presently, the Armenians do not have the resources or the numbers to do it, and Lebanon has had enough for 30 years.

        Lebanon had enough. Other countries should take the burden of finding a way to give the Palestinians their home. Not Lebanon. This is my point. Shift the burden. If a Lebanese person wants to do more, then I truly encourage them to join a neighboring army who has the resources to fight the war.

        You say, “If you can’t beat them, join them, right?”. Again, making peace with your neighboring country does not mean you are joining them or bowing to them. That would be the wrong conclusion coming from someone who does not have any business in decision making. See, explanation above. Additionally, it is not an issue of “if” you can’t beat Israel. The sad truth is that Lebanon can not beat Israel. Am I like other dissolute human beings for admitting the obvious that the “King is not wearing any clothes”? Or are you a dissolute human being to think that you can play God and subject the good Lebanese people for another 30 years of shameful murder, destruction and mass exodus. “AAIB ALEYKON”.

        Most wars were and still are being won by superior weaponry. Don’t confuse yourself with a soldier’s morals and the weapon he fires. Soldiers at war do not load their guns with morals. That comes with the individual and the reason why he is firing his gun. He either has it or not. Vietnam was not a righteous war. On the other hand had the Americans, Europe or the rest of the Arab world declared war and/or engaged the murdering Turks, then that would have been a righteous war. In that instant you are combining weaponry with morals. Think about that and shift the burden from Lebanon.

        LEBANON HAD ENOUGH. LEBANON NEEDS TO REPAIR AND REHABILITATE ITSELF. AND YES LEBANON NEEDS TO LIBERATE ITSELF BY MAKING PEACE JUST AS EGYPT DID. LEBANON NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE AND FIXING ITS INFRASTRUCTURE.

        I am thinking that if you make peace with your neighbor, he will not steal from you, conduct daily air raids and/or infiltrate your sectors and society. But Iran is not doing that. Oh, Iran just wants you to keep on fighting a war with your blood that you should have no business fighting anymore. How nice.

        Nobody in Lebanon wants to be bullied by Israel. If Israel’s motive is to take over Lebanon and plunder her resources, then the Lebanese people should learn their lesson from the Syrian experience. I WOULDN’T WANT ANY COUNTRY TO INTERFERE WITH MY BUSINESS UNLESS BY NECESSITY OF INVITATION.

        If Lebanon decides to sign a peace treaty with Israel, it does not mean that Lebanon is allowing the Palestinians to be thrown under the bus. MY POINT IS THAT LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS DISPUTE. Let other Arab countries take on that responsibility and lose their own blood in an effort to provide for the Palestinian people. LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOSE MORE BLOOD.

        About taking over the country, (1) staging a SIT-IN for over a year was a pretty a long time and intimidating; (2) handing over something like the “May 7 positions” to the Lebanese Army was the right thing to do; (3) it was Fouad Siniora privilege by way of elections to keep his position; and (4) if Mr. Hassan Nasrallah wants to run for Prime Minister of Lebanon to serve purely and collectively Lebanese interests, I’ll vote for him.

        Regarding the reversal of the alleged dim-witted law drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events, I do not have intimate knowledge nor it matters to the point that I raised. It sounds like the parliament and/or law makers reversed the law. Law makers are hardly the “people that would be persuaded without force allowing the majority of the people to follow their lead”. So, your example is irrelevant to my point. Law makers make law for number of reasons. If one is corrupt, the wrong law could be enacted for the wrong reason. Otherwise, I am thinking that the basket does not contain with all bad apples. You just need to make sure that fair, unbiased, ethical and uncorrupted people are elected in positions of power and decision making.

        When I ask the question “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? That is because I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer to that particular situation. What happens at the boarder is not the basis for my conclusion that “Hezbollah no longer has a place in Lebanese life”. That ship has already sailed and the people have come to the correct conclusion about HA’s intentions. What exactly goes on at the boarder is a small part of what Hezeb Allah has done in the greater Lebanon, including Beirut.

        Not knowing something becomes ignorance if you do not make an effort to educate yourself. To me, ignorance is unacceptable. Consequently, not knowing something is a reason for me to ask more questions and unfold the truth. Time permitting of course. Think about that.

        Thank you for your interest in my comment.

        1.  Avatar

          “You don’t know me, but you call me a coward for proposing peace with your neighbor”

          No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israels’ military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israels’ perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

          “Making peace with Israel would, in my opinion, open the door for better understanding to solve the existing problem regarding the Palestinians.”

          Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?

          “Lebanon had enough. Other countries should take the burden of finding a way to give the Palestinians their home. Not Lebanon. This is my point. Shift the burden. If a Lebanese person wants to do more, then I truly encourage them to join a neighboring army who has the resources to fight the war.”

          It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

          “The sad truth is that Lebanon can not beat Israel. Am I like other dissolute human beings for admitting the obvious that the “King is not wearing any clothes”? Or are you a dissolute human being to think that you can play God and subject the good Lebanese people for another 30 years of shameful murder, destruction and mass exodus. “AAIB ALEYKON”.”

          Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanons’ airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

          “Most wars were and still are being won by superior weaponry. Don’t confuse yourself with a soldier’s morals and the weapon he fires. Soldiers at war do not load their guns with morals.”

          No one said anything about morals. I mentioned morale. Something completely different. I was referring to the soldiers’ confidence, self-esteem, spirit, courage etc This is what wins wars which is why I used Vietnam as an example. These “superior weaponry” neither worked in Vietnam nor are they working in Iraq or Afghanistan or Lebanon.

          “AND YES LEBANON NEEDS TO LIBERATE ITSELF BY MAKING PEACE JUST AS EGYPT DID.”

          Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

          “But Iran is not doing that. Oh, Iran just wants you to keep on fighting a war with your blood that you should have no business fighting anymore. How nice.”

          Is it the Iranians that are living in the south or Lebanese? Southerners were fighting Israel long before Iran appeared in the scene so your claims are nothing but baseless.

          “About taking over the country, (1) staging a SIT-IN for over a year was a pretty a long time and intimidating; (2) handing over something like the “May 7 positions” to the Lebanese Army was the right thing to do; (3) it was Fouad Siniora privilege by way of elections to keep his position; and (4) if Mr. Hassan Nasrallah wants to run for Prime Minister of Lebanon to serve purely and collectively Lebanese interests, I’ll vote for him.”

          You have completely missed the point in regards to why I mentioned the above statements. I was just showing you proof that if Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

          “Regarding the reversal of the alleged dim-witted law drafted targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network after the May 7 events, I do not have intimate knowledge nor it matters to the point that I raised. It sounds like the parliament and/or law makers reversed the law.”

          You do not have intimate knowledge BUT it doesn’t matter to the point you raised? Hahaha.. You’re a funny character. No it does matter to the point. Allow me to refresh your memory. These alleged “reasonable majority” drafted an illegitimate dim-witted law targeting Hezbollahs’ telecom network and they only reversed it by force. So when you say, “then reasonable people will be persuaded without force”, I guess you deem the March 14 ‘unreasonable people’!

          “You just need to make sure that fair, unbiased, ethical and uncorrupted people are elected in positions of power and decision making.”

          You just need to make sure you don’t pay allegiance to unfair, biased, unethical, and corrupted people who are selected in positions of power and decision making.

          “That ship has already sailed and the people have come to the correct conclusion about HA’s intentions. What exactly goes on at the boarder is a small part of what Hezeb Allah has done in the greater Lebanon, including Beirut.”

          On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!

          “Not knowing something becomes ignorance if you do not make an effort to educate yourself. To me, ignorance is unacceptable. Consequently, not knowing something is a reason for me to ask more questions and unfold the truth. Time permitting of course. Think about that.”

          Good for you. Maybe you should unfold a little further before you make unsound conclusions. Think about that!

    3.  Avatar
      Anonymous

      Israel doesn’t want to, and will never want to occupy Lebanon. Israel is not Syria. We just want our land and peace in it. The only reason why Israel was ever in your country was because of Palestinian rockets during your civil war, and because of Hizballah rockets in 2006. Israel made many mistakes on both occasions, sometimes terrible mistakes. But I guarantee you, and I know what I am talking about, Israel does not want to occupy Lebanon. The current talk in the United States and in Israel is about strengthening the Lebanese Army.

      Hizballa, along with Syria of course, are a far greater threat to your country. I am not sure if Iran wants direct occupation but Iran wants influence in the Middle East, yes.

      A peace agreement with Israel will not solve your issue as you say (even though I am praying for such a day to come) because sectarianism is your issue. The agreement which ended the civil war is your issue since it allowed Hizballah to stay armed. You cannot have the civil war back so this is your dilemma, how do you fix this? Israel believe me, also wants stable neighbors. To me it seems like Mr Hariri the son is threading on egg shells here. He knows well who has killed his father and I hope that his reaction is a product of logical long-term strategy to get even, and not lack of care for his father’s memory or due to power hunger.

      And you are right, nobody cares about the Palestinians. I am not saying that Israel does (even though believe me that many people here actually care), but their own leaders usually are just power hungry and don’t care either. Both the Palestinians, and as this article shows you Israel too – are used as scapegoats.

      I hear occupation occupation of the Palestinians here, and yes they should have more. Most people in Israel nowadays agree that there needs to be two states, the only question is the borders. So what do they mean when they say we are occupying their land? (not you, but others say this). Do they want to send us back to Europe, the US, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and all places that we came from? What about those Jews who always lived here, even after we were kicked out by the Romans 2000 years ago? Look at the Hebrew language – it’s not a European language. Where are we supposed to go?? They didn’t want us in Europe, they have been killing us for centuries in Europe like no other people have been killed, then after the Holocaust they shuffled us around Cyprus and other islands and places, nobody wanted us. In this territory, there were Jews fighting the British already and it’s the only land we had. Do you know how much land were the Palestinians offered at some point? But no, they want 100 %!

      It’s a complicated situation, but issues about nations and people are always complicated! Politics is complicated. So it’s not an easy conflict to resolve and Israel has a lot of improvement to do I agree. Btw, there are Israeli Arabs who live all over Israel, about 20% and even when there is a Palestinian state they will stay here if they want to.

      Sorry about the rant, but I just want to reassure people that no matter what happens – and I hope for peace both in Lebanon and for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – Israel doesn’t intend to and will never occupy Lebanon.

  18. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
    VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

    Based on this report, Mr. Wissam Eid should always be remembered as a hero, and I hope that his surviving family is being well taken care of financially and by moral support.

    The following is for those who have posted comments to this article.

    I made a comment last month in response to another article, where in its most relevant part, I said that “strictly from the point of view of liberating Lebanon from this shameful 30-year bloodshed and uniquely for ‘Lebanese’ best interest (after all you do your best to help the helpless, but at the end of the day you should be ultimately selfish), Lebanon should make peace with Israel and let other countries with the military power, the loud bark and will address Israel” if that is what they believe is the right thing to do for Arab interest in the region”. Also, that is to say if war against Israel is just and necessary for Arab and Palestinian interest. I neither have the standing nor the knowledge to make that assessment. Also, surely, I am NOT advocating war against Israel or any other country.

    Lebanon is not, and has never been, a military power. Lebanon’s best attributes exists elsewhere.

    The mafia gains power and wealth by intimidation, but it starts with alleged promise of protection. If Lebanese people need to be protected from Israel, then Hezeb Allah (HA) is doing the correct thing by arming itself more powerful than the Lebanese army (even though not even a match against the Israeli army. So why?). But do the Lebanese people truly need to be protected from Israel? Or is it a Mafia type ploy? Or is it that HA has armed itself to battle the Lebanese to take over the government and the country and not necessarily defend Lebanon from Israel? You answer that.

    I think a logical analysis of the facts and the statements made by HA will tell you that HA’s interest is to take over the Lebanese government and make room for Iranian agenda in the region. If Iranian agenda is for the best interest of Lebanon, then HA is right and more power to them even using intimidation (but bloody murder? I don’t know about that). If not, then they are not defending Lebanon from Israeli aggression, but rather helping proclaim Iran as the Super Power in the region and becoming Iranian poppets. The only way Iran can do this is by proclaiming some type of victory over Israel. Now the battle is between Iran and those lovely people in Turkey. Good luck!

    The true victims are the Palestinian refugees. I don’t believe that either HA or Iran is truly committed to the Palestinian cause. It looks like they use the Palestinian issue as an excuse to further their own interests. Make your own assessment.

    If non-HA Lebanese leaders would otherwise save Lebanon by brokering a peace treaty with Israel similar to those of Egypt and Jordan, and if doing so is the WRONG strategy and not for the best interest of Lebanon for the long term, then HA is correct in taking over the country. The question becomes how far are they willing to go. Bloody murder? Kill anyone that gets in your way. Who does that? Oh yeh, the Mafia.

    If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead. SO YES, HEZEB ALLAH HAS BECOME A MURDEROUS GANG NOT WORTHY OF RECOGNITION AND/OR PLACE IN LEBANESE LIFE AND POLITICS.

    The question I ask “who really provokes who in the Lebanese Southern border? I am not there. So, I don’t have personal knowledge and don’t know the answer. Something to think about.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

  19. Dear Nagdella:

    I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.

    For example, I said: “If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead”.

    Further explanation: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE AND REPRESENT. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED UP MY COMMENT BY STATING THAT “WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FAIR MINDED, UNBIASED, ETHICAL PEOPLE ARE ELECTED IN POSITION OF POWER AND DECISION MAKING”.

    MY COMMENT WAS MADE IN GENERAL TERMS AND NOT REFERENCED TO A SPECIFIC OCCURRENCE. ISSUES ARISING FROM SPECIFIC INSTANCES CAN BE DEBATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER, I.E. MARCH 14 SUPPORTERS ACTED UNREASONABLY OR NOT IN THAT INSTANCE.

    You responded: “No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israel’s military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israel’s perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

    AGAIN YOU MISSED OUR POINT, AND YOU ATTEMPT TO FORCE YOUR VIEWS BY LABELING PEOPLE AND CALLING THEM NAMES.

    NOT LEBANON. BECAUSE LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISPUTE ANY MORE. DO I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LEBANON HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS? LEBANON HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU TRY BEFORE LOSING EVERYTHING?

    WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING
    BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.

    IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS
    YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE
    PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND
    “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.

    You say: “Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?”

    Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED
    AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

    You say: “It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

    EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.

    YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.

    You say: “Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanon’s airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

    Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

    NO, I DON’T PRESCRIBE TO THE VIEWS POORLY ARTICULATED ABOVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS BEHIND WINOGRAD? THE 2006 WAR LEFT LEBANON IN A DESOLATE STATE, AND ISRAEL RIGHTFULLY SO SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS BLOODY CAMPAIGN. THEY DESERVED ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

    MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES). I THINK WORLD OPINION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY HUMBLE VIEW. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY LEBANON NEEDS PEACE, AND YOU ARE WRONG: “THE ONLY REASON THAT THIS SENSELESS BLOODSHED WILL CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS IS NOT DUE TO MY PESSIMISTIC APPROACH (LAST I CHECKED PEACE BRINGS STABILITY AND PROSPERITY AND SAVES LIVES), BUT RATHER IS DUE TO YOUR RECKLESS DISREGARD TO HUMAN LIFE AND ENDANGERING THE STABILITY OF LEBANON FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS WHICH, AGAIN, LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO ENGAGE IN. LET OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TAKE THE BURDEN.

    SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WHO PRESCRIBE TO MY POINT OF VIEW ARE
    THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

    You say: Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes
    their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

    Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S
    AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I
    RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
    INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.

    TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEMS FIRST BEFORE UNSUCCESSFULLY
    ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE OTHER PEOPLE’S PROBLEMS. THIS MEANS “YOU
    SHOULD ALWAYS HELP THE HELPLESS, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
    YOU SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY SELFISH SINCE IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO BETTER YOURSELF, YOU CAN NOT HELP OTHERS.

    THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY
    DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

    You say: If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

    Further explanation: LEBANON WOULD NOT WANT HASSAN NASRALLAH,
    OR HARIRI, OR FRANJIEH, OR JEMAEL, OR JONBLAT, OR SOMEONE WHOSE
    NAME ENDS WITH “IAN” DECLARE HIMSELF/HERSELF AS THE PRIME MINISTER OR PRESIDENT. HA HAS ALREADY, UNOFFICIALLY, TAKEN OVER
    THE COUNTRY BY: (1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY, (2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM, (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.

    Finally you say: “On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!”

    Further explanation: “HIND-SIDE IS 20/20, AND IT IS YET TO BE SEEN IF ISRAEL
    WANTS TO BECOME AN OCCUPYING FOREIGN FORCE IN LEBANON. NO LEBANESE WOULD WANT THAT, INCLUDING ME. NOT FOR FRANCE, SYRIA, ISRAEL, IRAN, TURKEY, THE U.S. OR CHINA TO INTERFERE WITH LEBANON’S BUSINESS.

    BUT DID SYRIA DO THAT? YES THEY DID. ALL THOSE COUNTRIES CAN
    KEEP THEIR LONG ARMS TO THEMSELVES. LET LEBANON DECIDE WHAT IS
    FOR HER BEST INTEREST, WHEN TO TAKE ACTION AND WHEN NOT TO
    TAKE. NOT OTHERS.

    In conclusion, during my discussions with others, I had always defended Hezeb Allah and proclaimed Mr. Hassan Nisrallah,, as SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MANHOOD, BACKBONE AND RESOLVE TO STAND UP TO ISRAEL. But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.

    I would hope that HA is innocent, but, as more and more events unfold, I am not so sure. A political party killing a leader of a country would be construed as treason. I really hope so since if HA should be ousted from Lebanese lifeline then we are left with nothing. Back to the drawing board. Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.

    Have a nice weekend, and, once again, thank you for your interest in my comments.

    1. Vahe,
      That treatise 😉 to answer Nagdella was awesome. In my opinion though a peace with Israel would embolden them to usurp more land from the Palestinians. If Jordan and Egypt wronged the Palestinians by signing a peace agreement with Israel it does not make it right for Lebanon to follow because now you wrong the Palestinian cause three folds. First, let me put it this way for you, Israel has NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER on allowing the refugees to go back. As it is, their number is dwindling as opposed to the Arab Moslems (because the Palestinian Christians are already gone thanks to both Moslems and Israelis). A century ago, Christians made up 100% of Bethlehem population, fifty years ago their number dwindled to 70% and currently about 15% of Bethlehem residents are Christians and THAT was where Christ was born. It is a matter of time before this trend continues in the entire Arab world. There will be no room for Christians in the Levant in its entirety. For those of you who want to blame this mass exodus on the Christians spare me the rhetoric. Just look at the recent events in Iraq and Egypt and the fact that Christians cannot erect a church in Saudi Arabia, or the fact that it is unlawful for a moslem to convert to Christianity in Syria but the other way around is permissible etc. etc. It was the Christians of Lebanon who saved the Arabic language from annihilation at the hand of the Turks, yet our fellow Arab Sunnis would vote a Turk Sunni to power rather than see a Christian as a President. That was given as an example not to vilify Sunnis. All the religions of this world have done harm to others through the religion except probably for Buddhism (and that I am not sure of). The root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD (before you jump in on my case and label me atheist because I am not). Islam is a religion of conquer and EVEN if the Christians would eventually disappear and Israel conquered and the Jews are no longer a part of that society, the Shiites and the Sunnis will be at each others throat and the saga of this Jihad business would continue in one way or another. Islam is an attitude and it is the wrong attitude because people who really follow it rigidly will have zero tolerance to others. Individuals who choose to be tolerant to others are in fact in defiance of Islam and its teachings and therefore are only Moslem by name. The real Moslem picture is that of a Salafi who follows the Qoran 100% to its teachings and themes.
      Don’t think I am singling out Islam because Christians and Jews and others “fiyon el barake”. They are as much hypocrite as Moslems. Religion (Judaism) is what created Israel, lest not forget that 100% of zionists are Jews. Religion is what created Al-Qaeda, religion is what created Hezbollah (party of God) and Islamic resistance in Lebanon, and religion is what created the Lebanese Forces, the Christian resistance in Lebanon. I wonder sometimes who is the lesser evil. China got it right, Religion is poison…

      1. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Walid,“Atheism Is a Non-Prophet Organization” As George Carlin once put it. Though I’m not an atheist, but a non religious person, I think that an “honest atheist” could be a better ruler in Lebanon. I believe that atheism is less of an insult to God than our religious leaders.Your analysis of religious parties proves my point, which I’d made couple of days ago, that we need an “honest atheist” dictator to rule for few years. He can put religion, and religious leaders back in the prayer room where they belong. They won’t be able to blackmail politicians into submission to their authority, nor would politicians use the religious authority as protection, against charges of corruption or incompetence.It sounded as a joke then, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to try it. How bad can it be, compared to what we have tried? At least we can get rid of the hypocritical speeches and slogans used by the politicians, and religious leaders . An Atheist won’t need to seek any “blessings” from those who claim to represent God on earth, nor would a true secular need to.An atheist is more likely to accept, and encourage secularism than ‘believers” would. It was the failure of “Fake secular political parties” that opened the way for religious inspired and supported parties to spring out and take control of Lebanon’s political life.Why not give it a shot. It can never be worse than what we have now. It might work for religious people as well; it might make people appreciate the true purpose of religion.some might think its my desperation that forces me to think along this line. My answer would be; aren’t you desperate for a change yet?

        1. PROPHET.T:

          “Though I’m not an atheist, but a non religious person, I think that an “honest atheist” could be a better ruler in Lebanon. I believe that atheism is less of an insult to God than our religious leaders.”

          I can understand where you’re coming from but is that the best solution? As much as some religious leaders contradict what their religion prescribes, even they have boundaries they will not cross because there is only so much falsehood their followers will accept. Meaning, for arguments sake, I don’t know how much of Islam Saad Hariri practices, but if he were to be spotted consuming drugs, he would lose a majority of his followers.

          Atheists on the other hand have no boundaries. No one dictates their way of life. They are “free” so the sky is the limit. They practice their way of life according to morals. They believe in science. But one has to ask. Does science define morality? Who defines morality if not God? But they have no God. You cannot apply the ‘good’ and ‘evil’ principles into science. If I dissect a fish in the name of science, can we define it as being moral or immoral? It doesn’t quite fit.

          So a person leading a country who has “no” maker is quite dangerous. He may decide one day it is morally acceptable to consume drugs. Who knows. When an engineer builds a computer, he dictates to it with code or ‘religion’ because he knows what’s best for it. Can you imagine a computer dictating to its maker?
          It would be a scene out of Terminator 🙂

          But in answer to your question whether having an atheist lead Lebanon is a better idea. If you squint closely, you will notice some of Lebanons’ leaders are atheists. Even though they may tag themselves with a religion.

        2. PROPHET.T Avatar

          NAGDELLA,Not every believer in God is morally fit, and not every atheist is morally unfit.If one is to follow your logic, Then all Hindus, and Buddhists are morally unfit .You know this is not true. An Atheist may be immune to the pressure and influence of religious institutions. He does not have to appease them. He does not have to be a hypocrite.Believing in God should never be a prerequisite for some on e to take a public office.What must be prerequisite for a public office are morality, ethics, and qualifications of the person.Do you really believe that a Lebanese official would loose the support of his followers if He was spotted doing something against the teaching of his religion? Are you kidding yourself? Beirut’s most famous prostitution houses are frequented by Lebanese leaders, and their kids. As a matter of fact, you could not run a whore house in Beirut, unless you secure protection from Lebanese official or politicians. Most drugs smuggled in and out of the country, are protected by some official, or party. This is not about one office, or one leader, it’s about a social, and political culture; a rotten culture protected by religion institutions, feudal families, and corrupt political parties. Add them up; you get the worst political system.For over twenty years Lebanese politicians lead a civil war after another. Thousands of innocent people killed, the whole country was destroyed, and corruption became a normal part of life; yet those leaders and their genius kids are still ‘the beloved leaders”.Most of the leadership in Lebanon should be tried for war crimes, or corruption, yet they still enjoy the support of the religious institutions they belong to. Don’t you see any thing wrong with this picture? Do you believe that these clowns are following the teachings of their faiths? I’m not aware of any religion that allows this kind of behavior.Lebanon might be the only country where the national heroes are war criminals, and the only country where thieves and corrupt people are considered successful people.If, for the sack of your argument, Hariri or any other official were spotted using drugs, the whole sect would jump and claim it is an insult to the pride of the sect. You know that, don’t you? If you say something about Gegea, it becomes an attack against Maronite, if you say something about Berri, it becomes a conspiracy against Shiia; and if you say something about Hariri, it becomes an attack on Sunnis; and so on. Only, if someone committed an act that is considered (by the authority of his sect) against the interest of his sect, then He would loose the support of his religious authority, and maybe some public support, as a result. (Case of Aounn, is a good example)This marriage between political and religious leadership is what I’m trying to highlight as the core of the problem in Lebanon’s political system. Having a sectarian system makes this marriage easier to maintain, and harder to speak against.Let’s not consider religion as a prerequisite for morality. This link/article may shed some light on this assumed link between morality and Religion. It is worth reading.http://www.bigissueground.com/atheistground/ash-moralityandreligion.shtml

      2. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Hannibal,
        Though I’m not an expert on Islam, I can make this notation;
        The salafis, just like any other school of thought, justify their own doctrine by claiming to follow the Quran. In reality, following the Quran literally is not the right way of practicing Islam. The Quran is not as rigid as these people make it sound. Scholars of Islam have been trying to understand and interpret the Quran for 1400 years. The Salfi interpretation of the Quran is the least appealing, and the least agreed on in Islam.
        With all the differences between Shiia and main stream Sunnis, I’m not aware of any difference in interpretations of the Quran. Most of the differences spring from historical events, and from the Hadith, or the accuracy of the Hadith.
        Note: Thanks for calling me a Muslim by name, and I would never vote an Iranian for office instead of a Lebanese. lol

        1. Well don’t feel that bad, I am a Christian by name, and I would rather see a Shiite Lebanese president rather than a Christian from Iran voted to office 😛 lol

        2. LucyintheSkywithDiamonds Avatar
          LucyintheSkywithDiamonds

          It depends which madhhab you compare Salafism to. Salafis follow: a very conservative interpretation of the Qur’an; the Sunna (and a few Ahadith which their scholars have established to be truly legitimate and genuine); they also support the consensus of the Prophet’s companions – the salaf – hence they call themselves that. They take certain concepts and develop them further, such as the concept of tawhid, they interpret it in a way that they completely reject human reason and desire and believe that only G-d can rule. There is a lot more, but this is the basics.

          If by mainstream Islam you mean the Hanafi madhhab – all Salafis reject this, because they think it’s human reasoning. All Salafis share the same aqida, but not all of them are violent. In fact some of them don’t go into politics at all (because of their extended view of tawhid). These, will call anyone who does anything political or violent an “Ikhwani”. Their fellow Salafis – the jihadists – have gone so far as to blame these non violent Salafis of takfir, etc, etc. But even between these two, the belief is still the same, it’s the analysis of the current situation and deciding which method should be applied (analogy) to the issue in which the main difference is. The apolitical one will usually apply the strategies used during the Mecca period; while the jihadis will apply the method of the Medina age.

          I hope I have made it more clear to you. Shalom!

      3. PROPHET.T Avatar

        I was hoping to get a reaction to my earlier comment,Unless you don’t want an atheist to become a president.lol

      4. Hannibal:

        “The root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD (before you jump in on my case and label me atheist because I am not).”

        Would it be that maybe the root of all evil is lack of religion? Speaking on behalf of all religions, if a religion prohibits a certain act and someone commits this act in the name of that religion, does that validate the individual with that religion or does that make them an imposter?

        If God prescribes a way of life, whether you want to call it a religion or not, and people do not adhere to this way of life, do we blame the religion or the people? Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!

        “Islam is a religion of conquer and EVEN if the Christians would eventually disappear and Israel conquered and the Jews are no longer a part of that society, the Shiites and the Sunnis will be at each others throat and the saga of this Jihad business would continue in one way or another.”

        Again this begs the question. Is it Islam or lack of Islam? From what I’ve heard, Islam says, “There is no compulsion in religion. Truth is clear from error”. Meaning it’s a free world. Take it or leave it, it’s up to you. So if both the Shiites and Sunnis adhered to this verse, would they be at loggerheads?

        “Islam is an attitude and it is the wrong attitude because people who really follow it rigidly will have zero tolerance to others. Individuals who choose to be tolerant to others are in fact in defiance of Islam and its teachings and therefore are only Moslem by name.”

        Please back-up your statement with the Quran but take precaution. Quran says, “We have made it a Qur’an in clear Arabic language that you may fully understand”. So the translation you decide to quote me from, make sure it coincides with Arabic grammar.

        “Religion is what created Al-Qaeda, religion is what created Hezbollah (party of God) and Islamic resistance in Lebanon, and religion is what created the Lebanese Forces, the Christian resistance in Lebanon. I wonder sometimes who is the lesser evil. China got it right, Religion is poison…”

        Don’t follow personalities, follow principles!

        1. Nagdella,

          In islam we are only allowed to fight those who fight us, in other words we fight back and do not stirr up a fight. Long time back there were wars against non-muslim countries that persecuted the muslim minorities and hence the word EL FATEH which were efforts to spread the message of Islam, look closer in history and you will find muslim conquerors who took over villages and countries and did not force its people to go into islam by force. The Sunni and Shiite wars are mainly political and rarely religious.

          I totally disagree with you saying ‘Religion is the root of all Evil’, I would never judge a religion by its followers only to begin with. If I to judge Islam by the likes of Bin Laden then Islam would be a religion that allows the killing of innocent people…which is definitley not allowed in Islam…same could be said about the crusades that resulted in the cruel murders of lots of innocent people….does that make christians the same….definitely not.

          Bottom line, you have to make a clear distinction between the teachings of a religion and its followers.

        2. JadM:
          They are not my beliefs. I was replying to Hannibal. Have another look. I was quoting Hannibal then posting my reply.

      5. PROPHET.T Avatar

        NAGDELLA,
        The only difference between an atheist and a non atheist is that the first believes that there is a God, who created everything, while the second does not. Neither one is necessarily more ethical than the other. Morality and ethics have nothing to do with the belief in a creator.
        My issues are with religious institutions ,their leadership , and with the extended power they exercise on every aspect of their followers.

        Though I’m not a fan of Saad Hariri, I think it so unfair for you to pick Hariri as example, when I was referring to the whole political and religious leadership of Lebanon. Hariri is just a product of the rotten system that I complain about. You could have just picked any other name, or non to make your points. My issues with Hariri were not the subject of my comments anyway.
        No doubt that hypocrisy is another tool, which Lebanese leadership use when it is convenient. They are willing to tag themselves to any thing in order serve their interest, and keep them in power, especially religion. They understand how the system works, and they know how much influence religious institutions exercise.
        While an atheist, who has enough courage to announce his atheism, would not need to be a hypocrite, by pretending to be a sect protector, and tag him self to a church or a mosque in order to have political support. In fact He’d be there to prevent such practices.
        I never said that all atheists are honest or bad. But I can’t say that every believer in God is a good or honest person either. I don’t know for sure if this is the best solution for Lebanon, but considering what we have experienced during the 67 years ,I’m willing to take chance . I doubt that it can be worse than what we already have had.
        Most people are desperate for a change. What ever change we dream of, will not come through the same system that only produces more of itself

        1. This has nothing to do with being a fan of Hariri or not. I used him because he is the Prime Minister of Lebanon. I used him because he has leverage in Parliament. Nothing more. Yeah you’re right I could’ve used anyone but it doesn’t change the fact in regards to who’s running the show in Lebanon.

          I was just giving you a scenario that if the current Prime Minister was to commit an act contrary to his religion, he would lose a majority of his followers. On the other hand, if an atheist was Lebanons’ Prime Minister, he would have a blank check to do what he pleases and he would not lose a single supporter because people know they have no limitations. Homosexuality was once viewed as a repulsive act by society, but now in some countries it has become legalised. It is not deemed acceptable according to religions so where do you draw the line for acts that are deemed immoral at this moment in time. No code, no worries.

          “I don’t know for sure if this is the best solution for Lebanon, but considering what we have experienced during the 67 years”

          What has Lebanon experienced for the past 67 years? Have they experienced a Prime Minister who was sincere in upholding the principles of their faith?

      6. Hannibal:

        Thank you.

        In the recent months my frustrations regarding failure to achieve peace in the region prompted me to infuse a totally different view/strategy to mitigate our damages and move on to a peaceful and prosperous existence. This would mean all parties leaving the conference table would walk away thinking and feeling that the each got a bad deal from the negotiations. This is not a personal agenda or interest, but rather a “market place of ideas” for all to discuss for a possible resolution.

        You could be correct to think that “peace with Israel would embolden them to usurp more land from the Palestinians”, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that possible outcome. However, I am thinking that different outcome is also possible via aggressive and innovative solutions. In my humble opinion, in order to achieve this we first need to alter our present course (this must come from both sides) which is filled with hatred, threats and intolerance and change the environment to a place where it is ripe to produce meaningful dialog and compromise, thus, alter our ways. Clearly, without changing the current status, good/positive results could not be born out of distrust and constant threat of war.

        I also think that in order to truly push Israel to the corner and make them finally realize that one sided solution is not achievable without killing their children, we must change their phsichy by changing the game on the grounds. Look, if all fails, then may be an all out war is the only option left, but I hope not.

        Your statement, which I respect and understand, that “if Jordan and Egypt wronged the Palestinians by signing a peace agreement with Israel, it does not make it right for Lebanon to follow because now you wrong the Palestinian cause three folds” is a difficult one for every Lebanese to take to heart specially considering what the Lebanese have gone through for the past 30 years. Not only their decisions indirectly (since undoubtedly is was done for their own livelihood) wronged the Palestinians, but it also dropped the problem on the laps of the Lebanese; now making it a Lebanese problem.

        Whether a Christian, Muslim or a Jew, we can not discuss the Middle East without including CHRISTIANITY, and this is not because I am a Christian. Likewise Islam and Judaism.

        You are 100% correct to state that “this mass exodus of the Christians is not to blame the Christians”. It would be absurd for anyone to say that. And yes, if this trend continues, then Christians will disappear from where Christianity was born. The whole world sits and does nothing while Christians are massacred in Iraq and intolerance aimed at ousting Christians is being practiced openly and notoriously in countries like Egypt and Syria. What a shame for humanity!

        Ethics and morals transcends any organized religion. I rather put my trust with a person who has ethics and innate morals, then someone who claims to accept got, but hide the pursuit of his personal interests on his own selfish interpretations of God’s will. I mean, what type of a Christian, a Muslim or any other organized religious believer would you be to proclaim yourself as the “Party of God”. So, if you are a Christian with this proclamation, does this mean that Muslims, Jews, etc. are excluded from God’s party? Or are you saying that your God is different than mine? What is the whole idea of “One God”. Isn’t it clear? One God irrespective of your religion! So, you are right that “the root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD”.

        I was having a debate with someone a few years ago, and told him that “the fundamental problem in the Middle East is the unfinished business between the Shiites and the Sunnis. Well, he did not want to believe me. Oh well.

    2. Vahe,
      That treatise 😉 to answer Nagdella was awesome. In my opinion though a peace with Israel would embolden them to usurp more land from the Palestinians. If Jordan and Egypt wronged the Palestinians by signing a peace agreement with Israel it does not make it right for Lebanon to follow because now you wrong the Palestinian cause three folds. First, let me put it this way for you, Israel has NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER on allowing the refugees to go back. As it is, their number is dwindling as opposed to the Arab Moslems (because the Palestinian Christians are already gone thanks to both Moslems and Israelis). A century ago, Christians made up 100% of Bethlehem population, fifty years ago their number dwindled to 70% and currently about 15% of Bethlehem residents are Christians and THAT was where Christ was born. It is a matter of time before this trend continues in the entire Arab world. There will be no room for Christians in the Levant in its entirety. For those of you who want to blame this mass exodus on the Christians spare me the rhetoric. Just look at the recent events in Iraq and Egypt and the fact that Christians cannot erect a church in Saudi Arabia, or the fact that it is unlawful for a moslem to convert to Christianity in Syria but the other way around is permissible etc. etc. It was the Christians of Lebanon who saved the Arabic language from annihilation at the hand of the Turks, yet our fellow Arab Sunnis would vote a Turk Sunni to power rather than see a Christian as a President. That was given as an example not to vilify Sunnis. All the religions of this world have done harm to others through the religion except probably for Buddhism (and that I am not sure of). The root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD (before you jump in on my case and label me atheist because I am not). Islam is a religion of conquer and EVEN if the Christians would eventually disappear and Israel conquered and the Jews are no longer a part of that society, the Shiites and the Sunnis will be at each others throat and the saga of this Jihad business would continue in one way or another. Islam is an attitude and it is the wrong attitude because people who really follow it rigidly will have zero tolerance to others. Individuals who choose to be tolerant to others are in fact in defiance of Islam and its teachings and therefore are only Moslem by name. The real Moslem picture is that of a Salafi who follows the Qoran 100% to its teachings and themes.
      Don’t think I am singling out Islam because Christians and Jews and others “fiyon el barake”. They are as much hypocrite as Moslems. Religion (Judaism) is what created Israel, lest not forget that 100% of zionists are Jews. Religion is what created Al-Qaeda, religion is what created Hezbollah (party of God) and Islamic resistance in Lebanon, and religion is what created the Lebanese Forces, the Christian resistance in Lebanon. I wonder sometimes who is the lesser evil. China got it right, Religion is poison…

      1. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Walid,“Atheism Is a Non-Prophet Organization” As George Carlin once put it. Though I’m not an atheist, but a non religious person, I think that an “honest atheist” could be a better ruler in Lebanon. I believe that atheism is less of an insult to God than our religious leaders.Your analysis of religious parties proves my point, which I’d made couple of days ago, that we need an “honest atheist” dictator to rule for few years. He can put religion, and religious leaders back in the prayer room where they belong. They won’t be able to blackmail politicians into submission to their authority, nor would politicians use the religious authority as protection, against charges of corruption or incompetence.It sounded as a joke then, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to try it. How bad can it be, compared to what we have tried? At least we can get rid of the hypocritical speeches and slogans used by the politicians, and religious leaders . An Atheist won’t need to seek any “blessings” from those who claim to represent God on earth, nor would a true secular need to.An atheist is more likely to accept, and encourage secularism than ‘believers” would. It was the failure of “Fake secular political parties” that opened the way for religious inspired and supported parties to spring out and take control of Lebanon’s political life.Why not give it a shot. It can never be worse than what we have now. It might work for religious people as well; it might make people appreciate the true purpose of religion.some might think its my desperation that forces me to think along this line. My answer would be; aren’t you desperate for a change yet?

        1. PROPHET.T:

          “Though I’m not an atheist, but a non religious person, I think that an “honest atheist” could be a better ruler in Lebanon. I believe that atheism is less of an insult to God than our religious leaders.”

          I can understand where you’re coming from but is that the best solution? As much as some religious leaders contradict what their religion prescribes, even they have boundaries they will not cross because there is only so much falsehood their followers will accept. Meaning, for arguments sake, I don’t know how much of Islam Saad Hariri practices, but if he were to be spotted consuming drugs, he would lose a majority of his followers.

          Atheists on the other hand have no boundaries. No one dictates their way of life. They are “free” so the sky is the limit. They practice their way of life according to morals. They believe in science. But one has to ask. Does science define morality? Who defines morality if not God? But they have no God. You cannot apply the ‘good’ and ‘evil’ principles into science. If I dissect a fish in the name of science, can we define it as being moral or immoral? It doesn’t quite fit.

          So a person leading a country who has “no” maker is quite dangerous. He may decide one day it is morally acceptable to consume drugs. Who knows. When an engineer builds a computer, he dictates to it with code or ‘religion’ because he knows what’s best for it. Can you imagine a computer dictating to its maker?
          It would be a scene out of Terminator 🙂

          But in answer to your question whether having an atheist lead Lebanon is a better idea. If you squint closely, you will notice some of Lebanons’ leaders are atheists. Even though they may tag themselves with a religion.

      2. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Hannibal,
        Though I’m not an expert on Islam, I can make this notation;
        The salafis, just like any other school of thought, justify their own doctrine by claiming to follow the Quran. In reality, following the Quran literally is not the right way of practicing Islam. The Quran is not as rigid as these people make it sound. Scholars of Islam have been trying to understand and interpret the Quran for 1400 years. The Salfi interpretation of the Quran is the least appealing, and the least agreed on in Islam.
        With all the differences between Shiia and main stream Sunnis, I’m not aware of any difference in interpretations of the Quran. Most of the differences spring from historical events, and from the Hadith, or the accuracy of the Hadith.
        Note: Thanks for calling me a Muslim by name, and I would never vote an Iranian for office instead of a Lebanese. lol

        1. Well don’t feel that bad, I am a Christian by name, and I would rather see a Shiite Lebanese president rather than a Christian from Iran voted to office 😛 lol

      3. Hannibal:

        “The root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD (before you jump in on my case and label me atheist because I am not).”

        Would it be that maybe the root of all evil is lack of religion? Speaking on behalf of all religions, if a religion prohibits a certain act and someone commits this act in the name of that religion, does that validate the individual with that religion or does that make them an imposter?

        If God prescribes a way of life, whether you want to call it a religion or not, and people do not adhere to this way of life, do we blame the religion or the people? Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!

        “Islam is a religion of conquer and EVEN if the Christians would eventually disappear and Israel conquered and the Jews are no longer a part of that society, the Shiites and the Sunnis will be at each others throat and the saga of this Jihad business would continue in one way or another.”

        Again this begs the question. Is it Islam or lack of Islam? From what I’ve heard, Islam says, “There is no compulsion in religion. Truth is clear from error”. Meaning it’s a free world. Take it or leave it, it’s up to you. So if both the Shiites and Sunnis adhered to this verse, would they be at loggerheads?

        “Islam is an attitude and it is the wrong attitude because people who really follow it rigidly will have zero tolerance to others. Individuals who choose to be tolerant to others are in fact in defiance of Islam and its teachings and therefore are only Moslem by name.”

        Please back-up your statement with the Quran but take precaution. Quran says, “We have made it a Qur’an in clear Arabic language that you may fully understand”. So the translation you decide to quote me from, make sure it coincides with Arabic grammar.

        “Religion is what created Al-Qaeda, religion is what created Hezbollah (party of God) and Islamic resistance in Lebanon, and religion is what created the Lebanese Forces, the Christian resistance in Lebanon. I wonder sometimes who is the lesser evil. China got it right, Religion is poison…”

        Don’t follow personalities, follow principles!

        1. Nagdella,

          In islam we are only allowed to fight those who fight us, in other words we fight back and do not stirr up a fight. Long time back there were wars against non-muslim countries that persecuted the muslim minorities and hence the word EL FATEH which were efforts to spread the message of Islam, look closer in history and you will find muslim conquerors who took over villages and countries and did not force its people to go into islam by force. The Sunni and Shiite wars are mainly political and rarely religious.

          I totally disagree with you saying ‘Religion is the root of all Evil’, I would never judge a religion by its followers only to begin with. If I to judge Islam by the likes of Bin Laden then Islam would be a religion that allows the killing of innocent people…which is definitley not allowed in Islam…same could be said about the crusades that resulted in the cruel murders of lots of innocent people….does that make christians the same….definitely not.

          Bottom line, you have to make a clear distinction between the teachings of a religion and its followers.

      4. PROPHET.T Avatar

        NAGDELLA,
        The only difference between an atheist and a non atheist is that the first believes that there is a God, who created everything, while the second does not. Neither one is necessarily more ethical than the other. Morality and ethics have nothing to do with the belief in a creator.
        My issues are with religious institutions ,their leadership , and with the extended power they exercise on every aspect of their followers.

        Though I’m not a fan of Saad Hariri, I think it so unfair for you to pick Hariri as example, when I was referring to the whole political and religious leadership of Lebanon. Hariri is just a product of the rotten system that I complain about. You could have just picked any other name, or non to make your points. My issues with Hariri were not the subject of my comments anyway.
        No doubt that hypocrisy is another tool, which Lebanese leadership use when it is convenient. They are willing to tag themselves to any thing in order serve their interest, and keep them in power, especially religion. They understand how the system works, and they know how much influence religious institutions exercise.
        While an atheist, who has enough courage to announce his atheism, would not need to be a hypocrite, by pretending to be a sect protector, and tag him self to a church or a mosque in order to have political support. In fact He’d be there to prevent such practices.
        I never said that all atheists are honest or bad. But I can’t say that every believer in God is a good or honest person either. I don’t know for sure if this is the best solution for Lebanon, but considering what we have experienced during the 67 years ,I’m willing to take chance . I doubt that it can be worse than what we already have had.
        Most people are desperate for a change. What ever change we dream of, will not come through the same system that only produces more of itself

        1. This has nothing to do with being a fan of Hariri or not. I used him because he is the Prime Minister of Lebanon. I used him because he has leverage in Parliament. Nothing more. Yeah you’re right I could’ve used anyone but it doesn’t change the fact in regards to who’s running the show in Lebanon.

          I was just giving you a scenario that if the current Prime Minister was to commit an act contrary to his religion, he would lose a majority of his followers. On the other hand, if an atheist was Lebanons’ Prime Minister, he would have a blank check to do what he pleases and he would not lose a single supporter because people know they have no limitations. Homosexuality was once viewed as a repulsive act by society, but now in some countries it has become legalised. It is not deemed acceptable according to religions so where do you draw the line for acts that are deemed immoral at this moment in time. No code, no worries.

          “I don’t know for sure if this is the best solution for Lebanon, but considering what we have experienced during the 67 years”

          What has Lebanon experienced for the past 67 years? Have they experienced a Prime Minister who was sincere in upholding the principles of their faith?

    3. VAHE’ FROUNJIAN:

      “I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.”

      Is that so VAHE’ FROUNJIAN? You are the one calling Hezbollah a murderous gang based on a phony indictment which is yet to be released. It is also a good idea to practice what you preach!

      “GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST”

      Everything about your mind frame and points correlates with these elected officials. The reason why you are attempting to show distance from these elected officials is because it is evident to the world and your soul that they are nothing but a fraudulent bunch.

      “WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING
      BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.”

      Lebanons’ best interest is to stay Lebanon. Do you think there are countries that are still called ‘Egypt’ and ‘Jordan’? On paper that’s what they are called but they are under Israeli hegemony. The Israelis tell the Egyptians to jump, and the Egyptians reply, “how high?”. The state of Palestine no longer exists on paper. It will never become more than a virtual state. Once you lose interest in the Palestinian cause, you have lost interest in the whole region because the rest will fall like dominos starting with Lebanon. Before you know it, they’ll be serving “Israeli” homous in Beirut!

      “IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS
      YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE
      PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND
      “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.”

      The laughing stock of the world? What world are you living in? Roam the arab and western streets and ask people about Lebanon. This tiny nation has become the centre of attention in all aspects. A nation that flocks with tourists from around the globe to a nation that embarrassed the most superior army in the region. You think rebuilding restaurants and buildings is pricy? Try rebuilding the image of the most invincible army. Absolutely priceless!

      “Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED
      AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.”

      If Israel cannot forge a peace treaty with people within their own borders, what makes you think they can forge a treaty with people outside their borders unless they had the upper hand in bond?

      “EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.”

      You are missing the point I am attempting to convey. Arabs have the ultimate weapon and they still don’t have leverage in the region so when you say “shift the burden” to arab states that have military strength, you are wasting breath.

      “YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.”

      You need to understand you cannot shift the burden because there is no one willing to take up this burden. You need to understand that if no one is taking up the burden of the Palestinian issue, no one is going to take up the Lebanese issue when it comes down to the crunch. Israel occupied Lebanon for 20 years. Which arab nation came to the rescue? Had there been no one to perpetuate harassment upon the Israelis on a daily basis, Beirut wouldn’t be called Beirut today.

      “Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?”

      Was it Israel that had close to 200 bodies buried in Israel or the other way around? Was Lebanon obligated to retrieve these bodies or the other way around? The truth is you have absolutely no interest in Lebanese buried in Israel because either they are not related to you, or they are unlike your race and religion. Simple as that. Are you going to tell me there were other means of retrieving the bodies? Poking the Israelis on facebook maybe?

      “MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES).”

      The Arab/Israeli war caused death and destruction on both sides. Did both sides lose? Do you think any arab state would dare intimidate Israel after the war? No, because they received a spanking. Why do you think Israel has been training thick and thin for another war with Lebanon? Because Lebanon lost? Unfortunately, your lack of knowledge leads you to deduce that death and destruction means losing a war. Every intellectual knows you need to sacrifice to gain. You want to earn a University Degree, you need to sacrifice time and leisure. Do you think Olympic athletes attained gold medals by soaking up the sun?

      “Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S
      AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I
      RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
      INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.”

      No it’s very relevant. Leaders are known by how they run a country and treat their own people. If they treat their own people like garbage, then it gives you an insight into what kind of people sign peace treaties with murderers!

      “THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY
      DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.”

      Do you know what the moral of the story is? Give out of what you can. No one assigned this man to solve the worlds’ hunger problem. If everyone gave out of what they can, there wouldn’t be any hungry people. The man in the story is pretty stupid isn’t he. Trying to solve the problem by adopting the problem!

      “(1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY,”

      Yep, under Lebanese Law, they were the only party allowed to keep their weapons. Remember? No, of course you don’t! And then you want to dictate what weapons they can and can’t have? Why, is Lebanon funding their weapons budget? Who stopped the Lebanese Army from becoming the more powerful force in Lebanon? Maybe that’s something you can go and unfold!

      “(2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM,”

      Yeah some people learn from their mistakes. Crooked judges issued “legal” warrants once upon a time and this innocent man was robbed four years of his life. Personal vendettas do not authenticate arrest warrants!

      (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.”

      Remember how we deal with ‘’unreasonable” elected politicians?

      “But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.”

      Events paint pictures then you have the choice whether to distort the paintings or not. Look into your hand and validate if you’re the one holding a brush or not!

      “Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.”

      With the exposing of senior ranks of the Lebanese Army working as Israeli agents, does this sound like a brotherhood undivided?

      1. Well, we tried to enlighten you.

        The “boogie man” was created/established, and you all fell for that. So, go ahead and spend all you time, money, energy and resourced in fighting wars wile others benefit from the conflict that they have created. I guess, they would need to find a away to reclaim Arab profits from oil sales.

        Good luck with that, and Let us know how it turns out for you.

  20. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
    VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

    Dear Nagdella:

    I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.

    For example, I said: “If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead”.

    Further explanation: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE AND REPRESENT. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED UP MY COMMENT BY STATING THAT “WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FAIR MINDED, UNBIASED, ETHICAL PEOPLE ARE ELECTED IN POSITION OF POWER AND DECISION MAKING”.

    MY COMMENT WAS MADE IN GENERAL TERMS AND NOT REFERENCED TO A SPECIFIC OCCURRENCE. ISSUES ARISING FROM SPECIFIC INSTANCES CAN BE DEBATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER, I.E. MARCH 14 SUPPORTERS ACTED UNREASONABLY OR NOT IN THAT INSTANCE.

    You responded: “No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israel’s military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israel’s perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

    AGAIN YOU MISSED OUR POINT, AND YOU ATTEMPT TO FORCE YOUR VIEWS BY LABELING PEOPLE AND CALLING THEM NAMES.

    NOT LEBANON. BECAUSE LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISPUTE ANY MORE. DO I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LEBANON HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS? LEBANON HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU TRY BEFORE LOSING EVERYTHING?

    WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING
    BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.

    IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS
    YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE
    PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND
    “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.

    You say: “Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?”

    Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED
    AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

    You say: “It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

    EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.

    YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.

    You say: “Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanon’s airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

    Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

    NO, I DON’T PRESCRIBE TO THE VIEWS POORLY ARTICULATED ABOVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS BEHIND WINOGRAD? THE 2006 WAR LEFT LEBANON IN A DESOLATE STATE, AND ISRAEL RIGHTFULLY SO SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS BLOODY CAMPAIGN. THEY DESERVED ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

    MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES). I THINK WORLD OPINION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY HUMBLE VIEW. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY LEBANON NEEDS PEACE, AND YOU ARE WRONG: “THE ONLY REASON THAT THIS SENSELESS BLOODSHED WILL CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS IS NOT DUE TO MY PESSIMISTIC APPROACH (LAST I CHECKED PEACE BRINGS STABILITY AND PROSPERITY AND SAVES LIVES), BUT RATHER IS DUE TO YOUR RECKLESS DISREGARD TO HUMAN LIFE AND ENDANGERING THE STABILITY OF LEBANON FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS WHICH, AGAIN, LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO ENGAGE IN. LET OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TAKE THE BURDEN.

    SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WHO PRESCRIBE TO MY POINT OF VIEW ARE
    THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

    You say: Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes
    their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

    Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S
    AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I
    RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
    INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.

    TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEMS FIRST BEFORE UNSUCCESSFULLY
    ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE OTHER PEOPLE’S PROBLEMS. THIS MEANS “YOU
    SHOULD ALWAYS HELP THE HELPLESS, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
    YOU SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY SELFISH SINCE IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO BETTER YOURSELF, YOU CAN NOT HELP OTHERS.

    THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY
    DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

    You say: If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

    Further explanation: LEBANON WOULD NOT WANT HASSAN NASRALLAH,
    OR HARIRI, OR FRANJIEH, OR JEMAEL, OR JONBLAT, OR SOMEONE WHOSE
    NAME ENDS WITH “IAN” DECLARE HIMSELF/HERSELF AS THE PRIME MINISTER OR PRESIDENT. HA HAS ALREADY, UNOFFICIALLY, TAKEN OVER
    THE COUNTRY BY: (1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY, (2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM, (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.

    Finally you say: “On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!”

    Further explanation: “HIND-SIDE IS 20/20, AND IT IS YET TO BE SEEN IF ISRAEL
    WANTS TO BECOME AN OCCUPYING FOREIGN FORCE IN LEBANON. NO LEBANESE WOULD WANT THAT, INCLUDING ME. NOT FOR FRANCE, SYRIA, ISRAEL, IRAN, TURKEY, THE U.S. OR CHINA TO INTERFERE WITH LEBANON’S BUSINESS.

    BUT DID SYRIA DO THAT? YES THEY DID. ALL THOSE COUNTRIES CAN
    KEEP THEIR LONG ARMS TO THEMSELVES. LET LEBANON DECIDE WHAT IS
    FOR HER BEST INTEREST, WHEN TO TAKE ACTION AND WHEN NOT TO
    TAKE. NOT OTHERS.

    In conclusion, during my discussions with others, I had always defended Hezeb Allah and proclaimed Mr. Hassan Nisrallah,, as SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MANHOOD, BACKBONE AND RESOLVE TO STAND UP TO ISRAEL. But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.

    I would hope that HA is innocent, but, as more and more events unfold, I am not so sure. A political party killing a leader of a country would be construed as treason. I really hope so since if HA should be ousted from Lebanese lifeline then we are left with nothing. Back to the drawing board. Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.

    Have a nice weekend, and, once again, thank you for your interest in my comments.

    1. Vahe,
      That treatise 😉 to answer Nagdella was awesome. In my opinion though a peace with Israel would embolden them to usurp more land from the Palestinians. If Jordan and Egypt wronged the Palestinians by signing a peace agreement with Israel it does not make it right for Lebanon to follow because now you wrong the Palestinian cause three folds. First, let me put it this way for you, Israel has NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER on allowing the refugees to go back. As it is, their number is dwindling as opposed to the Arab Moslems (because the Palestinian Christians are already gone thanks to both Moslems and Israelis). A century ago, Christians made up 100% of Bethlehem population, fifty years ago their number dwindled to 70% and currently about 15% of Bethlehem residents are Christians and THAT was where Christ was born. It is a matter of time before this trend continues in the entire Arab world. There will be no room for Christians in the Levant in its entirety. For those of you who want to blame this mass exodus on the Christians spare me the rhetoric. Just look at the recent events in Iraq and Egypt and the fact that Christians cannot erect a church in Saudi Arabia, or the fact that it is unlawful for a moslem to convert to Christianity in Syria but the other way around is permissible etc. etc. It was the Christians of Lebanon who saved the Arabic language from annihilation at the hand of the Turks, yet our fellow Arab Sunnis would vote a Turk Sunni to power rather than see a Christian as a President. That was given as an example not to vilify Sunnis. All the religions of this world have done harm to others through the religion except probably for Buddhism (and that I am not sure of). The root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD (before you jump in on my case and label me atheist because I am not). Islam is a religion of conquer and EVEN if the Christians would eventually disappear and Israel conquered and the Jews are no longer a part of that society, the Shiites and the Sunnis will be at each others throat and the saga of this Jihad business would continue in one way or another. Islam is an attitude and it is the wrong attitude because people who really follow it rigidly will have zero tolerance to others. Individuals who choose to be tolerant to others are in fact in defiance of Islam and its teachings and therefore are only Moslem by name. The real Moslem picture is that of a Salafi who follows the Qoran 100% to its teachings and themes.
      Don’t think I am singling out Islam because Christians and Jews and others “fiyon el barake”. They are as much hypocrite as Moslems. Religion (Judaism) is what created Israel, lest not forget that 100% of zionists are Jews. Religion is what created Al-Qaeda, religion is what created Hezbollah (party of God) and Islamic resistance in Lebanon, and religion is what created the Lebanese Forces, the Christian resistance in Lebanon. I wonder sometimes who is the lesser evil. China got it right, Religion is poison…

      1. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Walid,
        “Atheism Is a Non-Prophet Organization” As George Carlin once put it.
        Though I’m not an atheist, but a non religious person, I think that An honest atheist could be the answer. I believe that atheism is less of an insult to God than our religious leaders.
        I think you are proving my point, which I made couple of days ago, that we need an honest atheist dictator to rule for few years. He can put religion, and religious leaders back in the prayer room where they belong.
        It sounded as a joke then, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to try it. How bad can it be compared to what we have tried? At least we can get rid of the hypocritic speeches and slogans used by the politicians, and religious leaders . An Atheist won’t need to seek any “blessings” from those who claim to represent God on earth, nor would a true secular need to.
        An atheist is more likely to accept, and encourage secularism than ‘believers” would.
        It was the failure of “Fake secular political parties” that opened the way for religious inspired and supported parties to spring out and take control of Lebanon’s political life.
        Why not give it a shot. It might make people appreciate the true purpose of religion.

        1.  Avatar

          PROPHET.T:

          “Though I’m not an atheist, but a non religious person, I think that an “honest atheist” could be a better ruler in Lebanon. I believe that atheism is less of an insult to God than our religious leaders.”

          I can understand where you’re coming from but is that the best solution? As much as some religious leaders contradict what their religion prescribes, even they have boundaries they will not cross because there is only so much falsehood their followers will accept. Meaning, for arguments sake, I don’t know how much of Islam Saad Hariri practices, but if he were to be spotted consuming drugs, he would lose a majority of his followers.

          Atheists on the other hand have no boundaries. No one dictates their way of life. They are “free” so the sky is the limit. They practice their way of life according to morals. They believe in science. But one has to ask. Does science define morality? Who defines morality if not God? But they have no God. You cannot apply the ‘good’ and ‘evil’ principles into science. If I dissect a fish in the name of science, can we define it as being moral or immoral? It doesn’t quite fit.

          So a person leading a country who has “no” maker is quite dangerous. He may decide one day it is morally acceptable to consume drugs. Who knows. When an engineer builds a computer, he dictates to it with code or ‘religion’ because he knows what’s best for it. Can you imagine a computer dictating to its maker?

          It would be a scene out of Terminator 🙂

          But in answer to your question whether having an atheist lead Lebanon is a better idea. If you squint closely, you will notice some of Lebanons’ leaders are atheists. Even though they may tag themselves with a religion.

        2. PROPHET.T Avatar

          NAGDELLA,
          Do you really believe that a Lebanese official would loose the support of his followers if He was spotted doing something against the teaching of his religion? Are you kidding yourself?
          Beirut’s most famous prostitution houses are frequented by Lebanese leaders, and their kids. As a mater of fact, you could not run a whore house in Beirut, unless you have political and security covers from Lebanese official.
          This is not about one office, or one leader, it’s about a social, and political culture.
          For over twenty years Lebanese officials were part of civil wars, killings, corruptions, and yet they are still ‘the beloved leaders’. Most of the leadership in Lebanon should be tried for war crimes, yet they are still the beloved ones, and they still get the support of the religious institutions they belong to. Don’t you see any thing wrong with this picture?
          Lebanon might be the only country where the national heroes are war criminals.
          If ,for the sack of your argument, Hariri or any other official, were spotted using drugs, The whole sect would jump and claim it is an attack against the sect. You know that, don’t you? If you say something about Gegea, it becomes an attack against Maronite, if you say something about Berri, it becomes an attack on Shiia; and if you say something about Hariri, it becomes an attack on Sunnis; and so on.

          We have people who committed major crimes against humanity, yet they get the support of their highest religious authority.
          Only if someone committed an act that is considered (by his own sect) against the interest of his sect, then He would loose the support of his religious authority, and maybe some public support, as a result.
          This marriage between political and religious leadership is what I’m trying to highlight as the core problem in Lebanon’s political system. Having a sectarian system makes this marriage easier to maintain.
          An Atheist may be immune to the pressure and influence of religious institutions. He does not have to appease them. If he is morally unfit to rule, it would be obvious since He isn’t a sectarian hypocrite.
          Not every believer in God is morally fit, and not every atheist is morally unfit.
          If one is to follow your logic, Then all Hindus, and Buddhists are morally unfit .You know this is not true.

        3. PROPHET.T Avatar

          NAGDELLA,
          Do you really believe that a Lebanese official would loose the support of his followers if He was spotted doing something against the teaching of his religion? Are you kidding yourself?
          Beirut’s most famous prostitution houses are frequented by Lebanese leaders, and their kids. As a mater of fact, you could not run a whore house in Beirut, unless you have political and security covers from Lebanese official.
          This is not about one office, or one leader, it’s about a social, and political culture.
          For over twenty years Lebanese officials were part of civil wars, killings, corruptions, and yet they are still ‘the beloved leaders’. Most of the leadership in Lebanon should be tried for war crimes, yet they are still the beloved ones, and they still get the support of the religious institutions they belong to. Don’t you see any thing wrong with this picture?
          Lebanon might be the only country where the national heroes are war criminals.
          If ,for the sack of your argument, Hariri or any other official, were spotted using drugs, The whole sect would jump and claim it is an attack against the sect. You know that, don’t you? If you say something about Gegea, it becomes an attack against Maronite, if you say something about Berri, it becomes an attack on Shiia; and if you say something about Hariri, it becomes an attack on Sunnis; and so on.

          We have people who committed major crimes against humanity, yet they get the support of their highest religious authority.
          Only if someone committed an act that is considered (by his own sect) against the interest of his sect, then He would loose the support of his religious authority, and maybe some public support, as a result.
          This marriage between political and religious leadership is what I’m trying to highlight as the core problem in Lebanon’s political system. Having a sectarian system makes this marriage easier to maintain.
          An Atheist may be immune to the pressure and influence of religious institutions. He does not have to appease them. If he is morally unfit to rule, it would be obvious since He isn’t a sectarian hypocrite.
          Not every believer in God is morally fit, and not every atheist is morally unfit.
          If one is to follow your logic, Then all Hindus, and Buddhists are morally unfit .You know this is not true.

      2. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Hannibal,
        Though I’m not an expert on Islam, I can make this notation;
        The salafis, just like any other school of thought, justify their own doctrine by claiming to follow the Quran. In reality, following the Quran literally is not the right way of practicing Islam. The Quran is not as rigid as these people make it sound. Scholars of Islam have been trying to understand and interpret the Quran for 1400 years. The Salfi interpretation of the Quran is the least appealing, and the least agreed on in Islam.
        With all the differences between Shiia and main stream Sunnis, I’m not aware of any difference in interpretations of the Quran. Most of the differences spring from historical events, and from the Hadith, or the accuracy of the Hadith.
        Note: Thanks for calling me a Muslim by name, and I would never vote an Iranian for office instead of a Lebanese. lol

        1. Well don’t feel that bad, I am a Christian by name, and I would rather see a Shiite Lebanese president rather than a Christian from Iran voted to office 😛 lol

        2.  Avatar
          Anonymous

          It depends which madhhab you compare Salafism to. Salafis follow: a very conservative interpretation of the Qur’an; the Sunna (and a few Ahadith which their scholars have established to be truly legitimate and genuine); they also support the consensus of the Prophet’s companions – the salaf – hence they call themselves that. They take certain concepts and develop them further, such as the concept of tawhid, they interpret it in a way that they completely reject human reason and desire and believe that only G-d can rule. There is a lot more, but this is the basics.

          If by mainstream Islam you mean the Hanafi madhhab – all Salafis reject this, because they think it’s human reasoning. All Salafis share the same aqida, but not all of them are violent. In fact some of them don’t go into politics at all (because of their extended view of tawhid). These, will call anyone who does anything political or violent an “Ikhwani”. Their fellow Salafis – the jihadists – have gone so far as to blame these non violent Salafis of takfir, etc, etc. But even between these two, the belief is still the same, it’s the analysis of the current situation and deciding which method should be applied (analogy) to the issue in which the main difference is. The apolitical one will usually apply the strategies used during the Mecca period; while the jihadis will apply the method of the Medina age.

          I hope I have made it more clear to you. Shalom!

        3.  Avatar
          Anonymous

          It depends which madhhab you compare Salafism to. Salafis follow: a very conservative interpretation of the Qur’an; the Sunna (and a few Ahadith which their scholars have established to be truly legitimate and genuine); they also support the consensus of the Prophet’s companions – the salaf – hence they call themselves that. They take certain concepts and develop them further, such as the concept of tawhid, they interpret it in a way that they completely reject human reason and desire and believe that only G-d can rule. There is a lot more, but this is the basics.

          If by mainstream Islam you mean the Hanafi madhhab – all Salafis reject this, because they think it’s human reasoning. All Salafis share the same aqida, but not all of them are violent. In fact some of them don’t go into politics at all (because of their extended view of tawhid). These, will call anyone who does anything political or violent an “Ikhwani”. Their fellow Salafis – the jihadists – have gone so far as to blame these non violent Salafis of takfir, etc, etc. But even between these two, the belief is still the same, it’s the analysis of the current situation and deciding which method should be applied (analogy) to the issue in which the main difference is. The apolitical one will usually apply the strategies used during the Mecca period; while the jihadis will apply the method of the Medina age.

          I hope I have made it more clear to you. Shalom!

        4.  Avatar
          Anonymous

          It depends which madhhab you compare Salafism to. Salafis follow: a very conservative interpretation of the Qur’an; the Sunna (and a few Ahadith which their scholars have established to be truly legitimate and genuine); they also support the consensus of the Prophet’s companions – the salaf – hence they call themselves that. They take certain concepts and develop them further, such as the concept of tawhid, they interpret it in a way that they completely reject human reason and desire and believe that only G-d can rule. There is a lot more, but this is the basics.

          If by mainstream Islam you mean the Hanafi madhhab – all Salafis reject this, because they think it’s human reasoning. All Salafis share the same aqida, but not all of them are violent. In fact some of them don’t go into politics at all (because of their extended view of tawhid). These, will call anyone who does anything political or violent an “Ikhwani”. Their fellow Salafis – the jihadists – have gone so far as to blame these non violent Salafis of takfir, etc, etc. But even between these two, the belief is still the same, it’s the analysis of the current situation and deciding which method should be applied (analogy) to the issue in which the main difference is. The apolitical one will usually apply the strategies used during the Mecca period; while the jihadis will apply the method of the Medina age.

          I hope I have made it more clear to you. Shalom!

      3. PROPHET.T Avatar

        I was hoping to get a reaction to my earlier comment,Unless you don’t want an atheist to become a president.lol

      4.  Avatar

        Hannibal:

        “The root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD (before you jump in on my case and label me atheist because I am not).”

        Would it be that maybe the root of all evil is lack of religion? Speaking on behalf of all religions, if a religion prohibits a certain act and someone commits this act in the name of that religion, does that validate the individual with that religion or does that make them an imposter?

        If God prescribes a way of life, whether you want to call it a religion or not, and people do not adhere to this way of life, do we blame the religion or the people? Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!

        “Islam is a religion of conquer and EVEN if the Christians would eventually disappear and Israel conquered and the Jews are no longer a part of that society, the Shiites and the Sunnis will be at each others throat and the saga of this Jihad business would continue in one way or another.”

        Again this begs the question. Is it Islam or lack of Islam? From what I’ve heard, Islam says, “There is no compulsion in religion. Truth is clear from error”. Meaning it’s a free world. Take it or leave it, it’s up to you. So if both the Shiites and Sunnis adhered to this verse, would they be at loggerheads?

        “Islam is an attitude and it is the wrong attitude because people who really follow it rigidly will have zero tolerance to others. Individuals who choose to be tolerant to others are in fact in defiance of Islam and its teachings and therefore are only Moslem by name.”

        Please back-up your statement with the Quran but take precaution. Quran says, “We have made it a Qur’an in clear Arabic language that you may fully understand”. So the translation you decide to quote me from, make sure it coincides with Arabic grammar.

        “Religion is what created Al-Qaeda, religion is what created Hezbollah (party of God) and Islamic resistance in Lebanon, and religion is what created the Lebanese Forces, the Christian resistance in Lebanon. I wonder sometimes who is the lesser evil. China got it right, Religion is poison…”

        Don’t follow personalities, follow principles!

        1. Nagdella,

          In islam we are only allowed to fight those who fight us, in other words we fight back and do not stirr up a fight. Long time back there were wars against non-muslim countries that persecuted the muslim minorities and hence the word EL FATEH which were efforts to spread the message of Islam, look closer in history and you will find muslim conquerors who took over villages and countries and did not force its people to go into islam by force. The Sunni and Shiite wars are mainly political and rarely religious.

          I totally disagree with you saying ‘Religion is the root of all Evil’, I would never judge a religion by its followers only to begin with. If I to judge Islam by the likes of Bin Laden then Islam would be a religion that allows the killing of innocent people…which is definitley not allowed in Islam…same could be said about the crusades that resulted in the cruel murders of lots of innocent people….does that make christians the same….definitely not.

          Bottom line, you have to make a clear distinction between the teachings of a religion and its followers.

        2.  Avatar

          JadM:

          They are not my beliefs. I was replying to Hannibal. Have another look. I was quoting Hannibal then posting my reply.

      5. PROPHET.T Avatar

        NAGDELLA,
        The only difference between an atheist and a non atheist is that the first believes that there is a God, who created everything, while the second does not. Neither one is necessarily more ethical than the other. Morality and ethics have nothing to do with the belief in a creator.
        My issues are with religious institutions ,their leadership , and with the extended power they exercise on every aspect of their followers.

        Though I’m not a fan of Saad Hariri, I think it so unfair for you to pick Hariri as example, when I was referring to the whole political and religious leadership of Lebanon. Hariri is just a product of the rotten system that I complain about. You could have just picked any other name, or non to make your points. My issues with Hariri were not the subject of my comments anyway.
        No doubt that hypocrisy is another tool, which Lebanese leadership use when it is convenient. They are willing to tag themselves to any thing in order serve their interest, and keep them in power, especially religion. They understand how the system works, and they know how much influence religious institutions exercise.
        While an atheist, who has enough courage to announce his atheism, would not need to be a hypocrite, by pretending to be a sect protector, and tag him self to a church or a mosque in order to have political support. In fact He’d be there to prevent such practices.
        I never said that all atheists are honest or bad. But I can’t say that every believer in God is a good or honest person either. I don’t know for sure if this is the best solution for Lebanon, but considering what we have experienced during the 67 years ,I’m willing to take chance . I doubt that it can be worse than what we already have had.
        Most people are desperate for a change. What ever change we dream of, will not come through the same system that only produces more of itself

        1.  Avatar

          This has nothing to do with being a fan of Hariri or not. I used him because he is the Prime Minister of Lebanon. I used him because he has leverage in Parliament. Nothing more. Yeah you’re right I could’ve used anyone but it doesn’t change the fact in regards to who’s running the show in Lebanon.

          I was just giving you a scenario that if the current Prime Minister was to commit an act contrary to his religion, he would lose a majority of his followers. On the other hand, if an atheist was Lebanons’ Prime Minister, he would have a blank check to do what he pleases and he would not lose a single supporter because people know they have no limitations. Homosexuality was once viewed as a repulsive act by society, but now in some countries it has become legalised. It is not deemed acceptable according to religions so where do you draw the line for acts that are deemed immoral at this moment in time. No code, no worries.

          “I don’t know for sure if this is the best solution for Lebanon, but considering what we have experienced during the 67 years”

          What has Lebanon experienced for the past 67 years? Have they experienced a Prime Minister who was sincere in upholding the principles of their faith?

      6. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
        VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

        Hannibal:

        Thank you.

        In the recent months my frustrations regarding failure to achieve peace in the region prompted me to infuse a totally different view/strategy to mitigate our damages and move on to a peaceful and prosperous existence. This would mean all parties leaving the conference table would walk away thinking and feeling that the each got a bad deal from the negotiations. This is not a personal agenda or interest, but rather a “market place of ideas” for all to discuss for a possible resolution.

        You could be correct to think that “peace with Israel would embolden them to usurp more land from the Palestinians”, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that possible outcome. However, I am thinking that different outcome is also possible via aggressive and innovative solutions. In my humble opinion, in order to achieve this we first need to alter our present course (this must come from both sides) which is filled with hatred, threats and intolerance and change the environment to a place where it is ripe to produce meaningful dialog and compromise, thus, alter our ways. Clearly, without changing the current status, good/positive results could not be born out of distrust and constant threat of war.

        I also think that in order to truly push Israel to the corner and make them finally realize that one sided solution is not achievable without killing their children, we must change their phsichy by changing the game on the grounds. Look, if all fails, then may be an all out war is the only option left, but I hope not.

        Your statement, which I respect and understand, that “if Jordan and Egypt wronged the Palestinians by signing a peace agreement with Israel, it does not make it right for Lebanon to follow because now you wrong the Palestinian cause three folds” is a difficult one for every Lebanese to take to heart specially considering what the Lebanese have gone through for the past 30 years. Not only their decisions indirectly (since undoubtedly is was done for their own livelihood) wronged the Palestinians, but it also dropped the problem on the laps of the Lebanese; now making it a Lebanese problem.

        Whether a Christian, Muslim or a Jew, we can not discuss the Middle East without including CHRISTIANITY, and this is not because I am a Christian. Likewise Islam and Judaism.

        You are 100% correct to state that “this mass exodus of the Christians is not to blame the Christians”. It would be absurd for anyone to say that. And yes, if this trend continues, then Christians will disappear from where Christianity was born. The whole world sits and does nothing while Christians are massacred in Iraq and intolerance aimed at ousting Christians is being practiced openly and notoriously in countries like Egypt and Syria. What a shame for humanity!

        Ethics and morals transcends any organized religion. I rather put my trust with a person who has ethics and innate morals, then someone who claims to accept got, but hide the pursuit of his personal interests on his own selfish interpretations of God’s will. I mean, what type of a Christian, a Muslim or any other organized religious believer would you be to proclaim yourself as the “Party of God”. So, if you are a Christian with this proclamation, does this mean that Muslims, Jews, etc. are excluded from God’s party? Or are you saying that your God is different than mine? What is the whole idea of “One God”. Isn’t it clear? One God irrespective of your religion! So, you are right that “the root of all evil is Religion. NOT GOD”.

        I was having a debate with someone a few years ago, and told him that “the fundamental problem in the Middle East is the unfinished business between the Shiites and the Sunnis. Well, he did not want to believe me. Oh well.

    2.  Avatar

      VAHE’ FROUNJIAN:

      “I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.”

      Is that so VAHE’ FROUNJIAN? You are the one calling Hezbollah a murderous gang based on a phony indictment which is yet to be released. It is also a good idea to practice what you preach!

      “GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST”

      Everything about your mind frame and points correlates with these elected officials. The reason why you are attempting to show distance from these elected officials is because it is evident to the world and your soul that they are nothing but a fraudulent bunch.

      “WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING

      BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.”

      Lebanons’ best interest is to stay Lebanon. Do you think there are countries that are still called ‘Egypt’ and ‘Jordan’? On paper that’s what they are called but they are under Israeli hegemony. The Israelis tell the Egyptians to jump, and the Egyptians reply, “how high?”. The state of Palestine no longer exists on paper. It will never become more than a virtual state. Once you lose interest in the Palestinian cause, you have lost interest in the whole region because the rest will fall like dominos starting with Lebanon. Before you know it, they’ll be serving “Israeli” homous in Beirut!

      “IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS

      YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE

      PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND

      “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.”

      The laughing stock of the world? What world are you living in? Roam the arab and western streets and ask people about Lebanon. This tiny nation has become the centre of attention in all aspects. A nation that flocks with tourists from around the globe to a nation that embarrassed the most superior army in the region. You think rebuilding restaurants and buildings is pricy? Try rebuilding the image of the most invincible army. Absolutely priceless!

      “Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED

      AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.”

      If Israel cannot forge a peace treaty with people within their own borders, what makes you think they can forge a treaty with people outside their borders unless they had the upper hand in bond?

      “EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.”

      You are missing the point I am attempting to convey. Arabs have the ultimate weapon and they still don’t have leverage in the region so when you say “shift the burden” to arab states that have military strength, you are wasting breath.

      “YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.”

      You need to understand you cannot shift the burden because there is no one willing to take up this burden. You need to understand that if no one is taking up the burden of the Palestinian issue, no one is going to take up the Lebanese issue when it comes down to the crunch. Israel occupied Lebanon for 20 years. Which arab nation came to the rescue? Had there been no one to perpetuate harassment upon the Israelis on a daily basis, Beirut wouldn’t be called Beirut today.

      “Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?”

      Was it Israel that had close to 200 bodies buried in Israel or the other way around? Was Lebanon obligated to retrieve these bodies or the other way around? The truth is you have absolutely no interest in Lebanese buried in Israel because either they are not related to you, or they are unlike your race and religion. Simple as that. Are you going to tell me there were other means of retrieving the bodies? Poking the Israelis on facebook maybe?

      “MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES).”

      The Arab/Israeli war caused death and destruction on both sides. Did both sides lose? Do you think any arab state would dare intimidate Israel after the war? No, because they received a spanking. Why do you think Israel has been training thick and thin for another war with Lebanon? Because Lebanon lost? Unfortunately, your lack of knowledge leads you to deduce that death and destruction means losing a war. Every intellectual knows you need to sacrifice to gain. You want to earn a University Degree, you need to sacrifice time and leisure. Do you think Olympic athletes attained gold medals by soaking up the sun?

      “Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S

      AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I

      RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST

      INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.”

      No it’s very relevant. Leaders are known by how they run a country and treat their own people. If they treat their own people like garbage, then it gives you an insight into what kind of people sign peace treaties with murderers!

      “THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY

      DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.”

      Do you know what the moral of the story is? Give out of what you can. No one assigned this man to solve the worlds’ hunger problem. If everyone gave out of what they can, there wouldn’t be any hungry people. The man in the story is pretty stupid isn’t he. Trying to solve the problem by adopting the problem!

      “(1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY,”

      Yep, under Lebanese Law, they were the only party allowed to keep their weapons. Remember? No, of course you don’t! And then you want to dictate what weapons they can and can’t have? Why, is Lebanon funding their weapons budget? Who stopped the Lebanese Army from becoming the more powerful force in Lebanon? Maybe that’s something you can go and unfold!

      “(2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM,”

      Yeah some people learn from their mistakes. Crooked judges issued “legal” warrants once upon a time and this innocent man was robbed four years of his life. Personal vendettas do not authenticate arrest warrants!

      (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.”

      Remember how we deal with ‘’unreasonable” elected politicians?

      “But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.”

      Events paint pictures then you have the choice whether to distort the paintings or not. Look into your hand and validate if you’re the one holding a brush or not!

      “Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.”

      With the exposing of senior ranks of the Lebanese Army working as Israeli agents, does this sound like a brotherhood undivided?

      1. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
        VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

        Well, we tried to enlighten you. The “boogie man” was created/established, and you fell for that.

        . Good luck with that, and Let us know how it turns out for you.

  21. Dear Nagdella:

    I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.

    For example, I said: “If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead”.

    Further explanation: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE AND REPRESENT. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED UP MY COMMENT BY STATING THAT “WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FAIR MINDED, UNBIASED, ETHICAL PEOPLE ARE ELECTED IN POSITION OF POWER AND DECISION MAKING”.

    MY COMMENT WAS MADE IN GENERAL TERMS AND NOT REFERENCED TO A SPECIFIC OCCURRENCE. ISSUES ARISING FROM SPECIFIC INSTANCES CAN BE DEBATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER, I.E. MARCH 14 SUPPORTERS ACTED UNREASONABLY OR NOT IN THAT INSTANCE.

    You responded: “No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israel’s military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israel’s perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

    AGAIN YOU MISSED OUR POINT, AND YOU ATTEMPT TO FORCE YOUR VIEWS BY LABELING PEOPLE AND CALLING THEM NAMES.

    NOT LEBANON. BECAUSE LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISPUTE ANY MORE. DO I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LEBANON HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS? LEBANON HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU TRY BEFORE LOSING EVERYTHING?

    WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.

    IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.

    You say: “Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?”

    Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

    You say: “It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

    EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.

    YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.

    You say: “Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanon’s airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

    Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

    NO, I DON’T PRESCRIBE TO THE VIEWS POORLY ARTICULATED ABOVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS BEHIND WINOGRAD? THE 2006 WAR LEFT LEBANON IN A DESOLATE STATE, AND ISRAEL RIGHTFULLY SO SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS BLOODY CAMPAIGN. THEY DESERVED ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

    MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES). I THINK WORLD OPINION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY HUMBLE VIEW. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY LEBANON NEEDS PEACE, AND YOU ARE WRONG: “THE ONLY REASON THAT THIS SENSELESS BLOODSHED WILL CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS IS NOT DUE TO MY PESSIMISTIC APPROACH (LAST I CHECKED PEACE BRINGS STABILITY AND PROSPERITY AND SAVES LIVES), BUT RATHER IS DUE TO YOUR RECKLESS DISREGARD TO HUMAN LIFE AND ENDANGERING THE STABILITY OF LEBANON FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS WHICH, AGAIN, LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO ENGAGE IN. LET OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TAKE THE BURDEN.

    SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WHO PRESCRIBE TO MY POINT OF VIEW ARE THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

    You say: Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

    Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
    INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.

    TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEMS FIRST BEFORE UNSUCCESSFULLY ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE OTHER PEOPLE’S PROBLEMS. THIS MEANS “YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HELP THE HELPLESS, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
    YOU SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY SELFISH SINCE IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO BETTER YOURSELF, YOU CAN NOT HELP OTHERS.

    THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

    You say: If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

    Further explanation: LEBANON WOULD NOT WANT HASSAN NASRALLAH, OR HARIRI, OR FRANJIEH, OR JEMAEL, OR JONBLAT, OR SOMEONE WHOSE NAME ENDS WITH “IAN” DECLARE HIMSELF/HERSELF AS THE PRIME MINISTER OR PRESIDENT. HA HAS ALREADY, UNOFFICIALLY, TAKEN OVER THE COUNTRY BY: (1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY, (2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM, (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.

    Finally you say: “On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!”

    Further explanation: “HIND-SIDE IS 20/20, AND IT IS YET TO BE SEEN IF ISRAELWANTS TO BECOME AN OCCUPYING FOREIGN FORCE IN LEBANON. NO LEBANESE WOULD WANT THAT, INCLUDING ME. NOT FOR FRANCE, SYRIA, ISRAEL, IRAN, TURKEY, THE U.S. OR CHINA TO INTERFERE WITH LEBANON’S BUSINESS.

    BUT DID SYRIA DO THAT? YES THEY DID. ALL THOSE COUNTRIES CAN KEEP THEIR LONG ARMS TO THEMSELVES. LET LEBANON DECIDE WHAT IS FOR HER BEST INTEREST, WHEN TO TAKE ACTION AND WHEN NOT TO TAKE. NOT OTHERS.

    In conclusion, during my discussions with others, I had always defended Hezeb Allah and proclaimed Mr. Hassan Nisrallah,, as SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MANHOOD, BACKBONE AND RESOLVE TO STAND UP TO ISRAEL. But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.

    I would hope that HA is innocent, but, as more and more events unfold, I am not so sure. A political party killing a leader of a country would be construed as treason. I really hope so since if HA should be ousted from Lebanese lifeline then we are left with nothing. Back to the drawing board. Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.

    Have a nice weekend, and, once again, thank you for your interest in my comments.

  22. Dear Nagdella:

    I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.

    For example, I said: “If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead”.

    Further explanation: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE AND REPRESENT. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED UP MY COMMENT BY STATING THAT “WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FAIR MINDED, UNBIASED, ETHICAL PEOPLE ARE ELECTED IN POSITION OF POWER AND DECISION MAKING”.

    MY COMMENT WAS MADE IN GENERAL TERMS AND NOT REFERENCED TO A SPECIFIC OCCURRENCE. ISSUES ARISING FROM SPECIFIC INSTANCES CAN BE DEBATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER, I.E. MARCH 14 SUPPORTERS ACTED UNREASONABLY OR NOT IN THAT INSTANCE.

    You responded: “No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israel’s military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israel’s perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

    AGAIN YOU MISSED OUR POINT, AND YOU ATTEMPT TO FORCE YOUR VIEWS BY LABELING PEOPLE AND CALLING THEM NAMES.

    NOT LEBANON. BECAUSE LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISPUTE ANY MORE. DO I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LEBANON HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS? LEBANON HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU TRY BEFORE LOSING EVERYTHING?

    WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.

    IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.

    You say: “Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?”

    Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

    You say: “It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

    EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.

    YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.

    You say: “Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanon’s airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

    Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

    NO, I DON’T PRESCRIBE TO THE VIEWS POORLY ARTICULATED ABOVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS BEHIND WINOGRAD? THE 2006 WAR LEFT LEBANON IN A DESOLATE STATE, AND ISRAEL RIGHTFULLY SO SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS BLOODY CAMPAIGN. THEY DESERVED ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

    MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES). I THINK WORLD OPINION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY HUMBLE VIEW. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY LEBANON NEEDS PEACE, AND YOU ARE WRONG: “THE ONLY REASON THAT THIS SENSELESS BLOODSHED WILL CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS IS NOT DUE TO MY PESSIMISTIC APPROACH (LAST I CHECKED PEACE BRINGS STABILITY AND PROSPERITY AND SAVES LIVES), BUT RATHER IS DUE TO YOUR RECKLESS DISREGARD TO HUMAN LIFE AND ENDANGERING THE STABILITY OF LEBANON FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS WHICH, AGAIN, LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO ENGAGE IN. LET OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TAKE THE BURDEN.

    SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WHO PRESCRIBE TO MY POINT OF VIEW ARE THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

    You say: Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

    Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
    INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.

    TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEMS FIRST BEFORE UNSUCCESSFULLY ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE OTHER PEOPLE’S PROBLEMS. THIS MEANS “YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HELP THE HELPLESS, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
    YOU SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY SELFISH SINCE IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO BETTER YOURSELF, YOU CAN NOT HELP OTHERS.

    THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

    You say: If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

    Further explanation: LEBANON WOULD NOT WANT HASSAN NASRALLAH, OR HARIRI, OR FRANJIEH, OR JEMAEL, OR JONBLAT, OR SOMEONE WHOSE NAME ENDS WITH “IAN” DECLARE HIMSELF/HERSELF AS THE PRIME MINISTER OR PRESIDENT. HA HAS ALREADY, UNOFFICIALLY, TAKEN OVER THE COUNTRY BY: (1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY, (2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM, (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.

    Finally you say: “On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!”

    Further explanation: “HIND-SIDE IS 20/20, AND IT IS YET TO BE SEEN IF ISRAELWANTS TO BECOME AN OCCUPYING FOREIGN FORCE IN LEBANON. NO LEBANESE WOULD WANT THAT, INCLUDING ME. NOT FOR FRANCE, SYRIA, ISRAEL, IRAN, TURKEY, THE U.S. OR CHINA TO INTERFERE WITH LEBANON’S BUSINESS.

    BUT DID SYRIA DO THAT? YES THEY DID. ALL THOSE COUNTRIES CAN KEEP THEIR LONG ARMS TO THEMSELVES. LET LEBANON DECIDE WHAT IS FOR HER BEST INTEREST, WHEN TO TAKE ACTION AND WHEN NOT TO TAKE. NOT OTHERS.

    In conclusion, during my discussions with others, I had always defended Hezeb Allah and proclaimed Mr. Hassan Nisrallah,, as SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MANHOOD, BACKBONE AND RESOLVE TO STAND UP TO ISRAEL. But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.

    I would hope that HA is innocent, but, as more and more events unfold, I am not so sure. A political party killing a leader of a country would be construed as treason. I really hope so since if HA should be ousted from Lebanese lifeline then we are left with nothing. Back to the drawing board. Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.

    Have a nice weekend, and, once again, thank you for your interest in my comments.

  23. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
    VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

    Dear Nagdella:

    I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.

    For example, I said: “If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead”.

    Further explanation: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE AND REPRESENT. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED UP MY COMMENT BY STATING THAT “WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FAIR MINDED, UNBIASED, ETHICAL PEOPLE ARE ELECTED IN POSITION OF POWER AND DECISION MAKING”.

    MY COMMENT WAS MADE IN GENERAL TERMS AND NOT REFERENCED TO A SPECIFIC OCCURRENCE. ISSUES ARISING FROM SPECIFIC INSTANCES CAN BE DEBATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER, I.E. MARCH 14 SUPPORTERS ACTED UNREASONABLY OR NOT IN THAT INSTANCE.

    You responded: “No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israel’s military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israel’s perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

    AGAIN YOU MISSED OUR POINT, AND YOU ATTEMPT TO FORCE YOUR VIEWS BY LABELING PEOPLE AND CALLING THEM NAMES.

    NOT LEBANON. BECAUSE LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISPUTE ANY MORE. DO I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LEBANON HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS? LEBANON HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU TRY BEFORE LOSING EVERYTHING?

    WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.

    IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.

    You say: “Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?”

    Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

    You say: “It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

    EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.

    YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.

    You say: “Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanon’s airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

    Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

    NO, I DON’T PRESCRIBE TO THE VIEWS POORLY ARTICULATED ABOVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS BEHIND WINOGRAD? THE 2006 WAR LEFT LEBANON IN A DESOLATE STATE, AND ISRAEL RIGHTFULLY SO SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS BLOODY CAMPAIGN. THEY DESERVED ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

    MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES). I THINK WORLD OPINION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY HUMBLE VIEW. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY LEBANON NEEDS PEACE, AND YOU ARE WRONG: “THE ONLY REASON THAT THIS SENSELESS BLOODSHED WILL CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS IS NOT DUE TO MY PESSIMISTIC APPROACH (LAST I CHECKED PEACE BRINGS STABILITY AND PROSPERITY AND SAVES LIVES), BUT RATHER IS DUE TO YOUR RECKLESS DISREGARD TO HUMAN LIFE AND ENDANGERING THE STABILITY OF LEBANON FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS WHICH, AGAIN, LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO ENGAGE IN. LET OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TAKE THE BURDEN.

    SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WHO PRESCRIBE TO MY POINT OF VIEW ARE THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

    You say: Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

    Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
    INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.

    TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEMS FIRST BEFORE UNSUCCESSFULLY ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE OTHER PEOPLE’S PROBLEMS. THIS MEANS “YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HELP THE HELPLESS, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
    YOU SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY SELFISH SINCE IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO BETTER YOURSELF, YOU CAN NOT HELP OTHERS.

    THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

    You say: If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

    Further explanation: LEBANON WOULD NOT WANT HASSAN NASRALLAH, OR HARIRI, OR FRANJIEH, OR JEMAEL, OR JONBLAT, OR SOMEONE WHOSE NAME ENDS WITH “IAN” DECLARE HIMSELF/HERSELF AS THE PRIME MINISTER OR PRESIDENT. HA HAS ALREADY, UNOFFICIALLY, TAKEN OVER THE COUNTRY BY: (1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY, (2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM, (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.

    Finally you say: “On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!”

    Further explanation: “HIND-SIDE IS 20/20, AND IT IS YET TO BE SEEN IF ISRAELWANTS TO BECOME AN OCCUPYING FOREIGN FORCE IN LEBANON. NO LEBANESE WOULD WANT THAT, INCLUDING ME. NOT FOR FRANCE, SYRIA, ISRAEL, IRAN, TURKEY, THE U.S. OR CHINA TO INTERFERE WITH LEBANON’S BUSINESS.

    BUT DID SYRIA DO THAT? YES THEY DID. ALL THOSE COUNTRIES CAN KEEP THEIR LONG ARMS TO THEMSELVES. LET LEBANON DECIDE WHAT IS FOR HER BEST INTEREST, WHEN TO TAKE ACTION AND WHEN NOT TO TAKE. NOT OTHERS.

    In conclusion, during my discussions with others, I had always defended Hezeb Allah and proclaimed Mr. Hassan Nisrallah,, as SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MANHOOD, BACKBONE AND RESOLVE TO STAND UP TO ISRAEL. But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.

    I would hope that HA is innocent, but, as more and more events unfold, I am not so sure. A political party killing a leader of a country would be construed as treason. I really hope so since if HA should be ousted from Lebanese lifeline then we are left with nothing. Back to the drawing board. Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.

    Have a nice weekend, and, once again, thank you for your interest in my comments.

  24. VAHE' FROUNJIAN Avatar
    VAHE’ FROUNJIAN

    Dear Nagdella:

    I would urge you to support your opinions and/or conclusions with undisputed facts and logic and not assumptions. Also, an argument can not be sustained by inferring and/or assuming facts not raised by other side. It is also not a good idea to base your conclusions on an event that may or may not occur in the future.

    For example, I said: “If HA figured out the answer for Lebanon’s troubles, the region, etc., and no other party in Lebanon is capable of coming to that conclusion because they lack intelligence, then I would think you would engage your brothers and cousins by education and not murder. After all, if you are right, then reasonable people will be persuaded without force and the majority of the people will follow your lead”.

    Further explanation: GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE OPERATIVE WORD IN MY STATEMENT WAS “REASONABLE PEOPLE”. NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE AND REPRESENT. THAT IS WHY I FOLLOWED UP MY COMMENT BY STATING THAT “WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT FAIR MINDED, UNBIASED, ETHICAL PEOPLE ARE ELECTED IN POSITION OF POWER AND DECISION MAKING”.

    MY COMMENT WAS MADE IN GENERAL TERMS AND NOT REFERENCED TO A SPECIFIC OCCURRENCE. ISSUES ARISING FROM SPECIFIC INSTANCES CAN BE DEBATED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BY QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO DETERMINE WHETHER, I.E. MARCH 14 SUPPORTERS ACTED UNREASONABLY OR NOT IN THAT INSTANCE.

    You responded: “No, I called you a coward because of your reasoning behind signing a peace treaty with Israel. You want to sign a peace treaty because Lebanon lacks military strength and fighting them is useless seeing as Lebanon will never come close to Israel’s military might. It is an echo of David and Goliath except you are running for the hills. You acknowledge the 30 year bloodshed but your answer to ending this feud is by signing a peace treaty with Israel. Do you understand what signing a peace treaty with Israel indicates? You’re acknowledging Israel’s perpetual occupation of Palestine and everything the Palestinians fought for was in total vain. You throw this “peace treaty” around like it’s a rag doll while ignorance blinds your sight and hearing.

    AGAIN YOU MISSED OUR POINT, AND YOU ATTEMPT TO FORCE YOUR VIEWS BY LABELING PEOPLE AND CALLING THEM NAMES.

    NOT LEBANON. BECAUSE LEBANON CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DISPUTE ANY MORE. DO I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LEBANON HAS BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS? LEBANON HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU TRY BEFORE LOSING EVERYTHING?

    WE ARE NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM PALESTINIAN SUFFERING BY PROPOSING TO MAKE PEACE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR FOR OUR BEST INTEREST. LEBANON’S BEST INTEREST COMES BEFORE THE PALESTINIANS. SPECIALLY SINCE THE PAST 30 YEARS LEBANON HAS LOST THOUSANDS OF LIVES AND MANY MORE FAMILIES WERE SEPARATED.

    IGNORANCE CONSUMES THOSE WHO THINK THAT LEBANON COULD SUSTAIN MORE SUFFERING. THE COUNTRY REMAINS DIVIDED AND HAS BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD. ALL THE NEW BUILDINGS YOU BUILD, THE RESTAURANTS YOU DESIGN DOES NOT CHANGE THE PERCEPTION OF THE WORLD COMMUNITY THAT LEBANON IS DIVIDED AND “MA HADA AAREF IMTOH LA LEBNON”.

    You say: “Are you really that gullible into thinking that Israel wants peace with the Palestinians? Do you actually think that if Israel ever signs a peace treaty with the Palestinians, they will deport Israeli settlers living in housing units on land previously owned by Palestinians back to Europe? For heavens’ sake these people built a car park over a Palestinian cemetery. Does this sound like a nation interested in making peace?”

    Further explanation: WHETHER OR NOT ISRAEL WANTS PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IS NOT LEBANON’S PROBLEM ANY MORE. WE TRIED AND HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

    You say: “It is upon everyone to help the Palestinian cause but the reason why it has reached this stage, is because of the cowardly arab nations watching on silently. It is due to this “shifting the burden” which is why Israel is where it is today. Look at the irony. Arabs have abundant oil resources giving them the capability of pulling the strings in the region yet they are being dictated to. They have the ability to use oil resources as the ultimate weapon and still don’t know what to do with it.

    EXCELLENT POINT. WITHOUT PUTTING WORDS IN YOU MOUTH, THE OPERATIVE WORDS IN YOUR ABOVE STATEMENT IS “COWARDLY ARAB NATIONS WATCHING ON SILENTLY”.

    YES, IT IS UPON EVERY ONE TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS. AND, YES, LEBANON TRIED, AND NOW IT THE OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES’ TURN. LET US SHIFT THE BURDEN.

    You say: “Maybe in your delusional mind you think that Lebanon can’t beat Israel but reality paints a different picture. Your perception of winning a war is death and destruction but it is far from this. You think just because Israel has access to Lebanon’s airspace unaccompanied, Lebanon can’t “beat” them? Have you heard of Winograd? What objectives did Israel conquer during the 2006 war? What happened to the self-esteem of the Israeli public? What happened to the Israeli economy? What happened to the chief of staff, defense minister, and prime minister? You call this a win for Israel? The only reason this will continue for another 30 years is due to your pessimistic approach. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

    Further explanation: “WAS IT THAT ISRAEL THAT KIDNAPED TWO HA MEMBERS IN THE SOUTH AND LEBANON WAS OBLIGATED TO DESTROY ITS INFRASTRUCTURE TO RESCUE THEM? OR THE OTHER WAY AROUND?

    NO, I DON’T PRESCRIBE TO THE VIEWS POORLY ARTICULATED ABOVE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPALS BEHIND WINOGRAD? THE 2006 WAR LEFT LEBANON IN A DESOLATE STATE, AND ISRAEL RIGHTFULLY SO SUFFERED THE CONSEQUENCES OF ITS BLOODY CAMPAIGN. THEY DESERVED ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS.

    MY OPINION AS WHO WON THAT WAR DOES NOT MATTER (JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS A WIN FOR ISRAEL. IN FACT, IT WAS A LOSS FOR BOTH SIDES). I THINK WORLD OPINION WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH MY HUMBLE VIEW. AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY LEBANON NEEDS PEACE, AND YOU ARE WRONG: “THE ONLY REASON THAT THIS SENSELESS BLOODSHED WILL CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS IS NOT DUE TO MY PESSIMISTIC APPROACH (LAST I CHECKED PEACE BRINGS STABILITY AND PROSPERITY AND SAVES LIVES), BUT RATHER IS DUE TO YOUR RECKLESS DISREGARD TO HUMAN LIFE AND ENDANGERING THE STABILITY OF LEBANON FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS WHICH, AGAIN, LEBANON CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO ENGAGE IN. LET OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES TAKE THE BURDEN.

    SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE WHO PRESCRIBE TO MY POINT OF VIEW ARE THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.

    You say: Egypt? Liberated? By whom? The dictatorship that beats anyone who opposes their agenda? The dictatorship that imprisons opposition members when they speak out about the ruling party? Liberating indeed!

    Further explanation: EGYPT’S STYLE OF GOVERNMENT AND THE COUNTRY’S AGENDA AND/OR PROBLEMS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE POINT THAT I RAISED. SPECIFICALLY HERE, LEBANON LOOKING OUT FOR ITS BEST
    INTERESTS AFTER 30 YEARS OF SHAMEFUL KILLINGS.

    TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEMS FIRST BEFORE UNSUCCESSFULLY ATTEMPTING TO SOLVE OTHER PEOPLE’S PROBLEMS. THIS MEANS “YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HELP THE HELPLESS, BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY,
    YOU SHOULD BE ULTIMATELY SELFISH SINCE IF YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO BETTER YOURSELF, YOU CAN NOT HELP OTHERS.

    THERE IS A STORY OF A MAN WHO GAVE A HOMELESS MAN FOOD EVERY DAY. ONE DAY THE HOMELESS MAN STEPPED INTO A DITCH, FELL DOWN BROKE HIS LEG WAS TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. TO HIS SURPRISE, THE MAN WHO WAS SHARING THE BED NEXT TO HIM WAS THE BENEVOLENT MAN WHO WAS GIVING HIM THE FOOD. WHEN ASKED WHAT HAPPENED, THE BENEVOLENT MAN SAID “I GAVE YOU ALL MY FOOD AND DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TO FEED MYSELF. I WAS SO HUNGRY THAT WHEN I WAS WALKING HOME, I FAINTED, FELL DOWN AND BROKE MY BACK. I CAN NO LONGER WORK AND MAKE A LIVING.

    You say: If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, it would’ve happened years ago. If Hezbollah wanted to take over the country, Mr Hassan Nasrallah wouldn’t have to run for Prime Minister. He would’ve appointed himself Prime Minister!

    Further explanation: LEBANON WOULD NOT WANT HASSAN NASRALLAH, OR HARIRI, OR FRANJIEH, OR JEMAEL, OR JONBLAT, OR SOMEONE WHOSE NAME ENDS WITH “IAN” DECLARE HIMSELF/HERSELF AS THE PRIME MINISTER OR PRESIDENT. HA HAS ALREADY, UNOFFICIALLY, TAKEN OVER THE COUNTRY BY: (1) MAINTAINING A SEPARATE MILITARY FORCE MORE POWERFUL THAN THE LEBANESE ARMY, (2) HA IS ABLE TO CARVE OUT A SAFE PASSAGE FOR A WANTED MAN FROM THE AIRPORT, AND THE COUNTRY CAN ONLY SIT BACK AND WATCH DESPITE A LEGAL WARRANT ISSUED AGAINST HIM, (3) HA CAN THREATEN TO CUT OFF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO DON’T AGREE WITH ITS AGENDA WITH IMPUNITY, ETC.

    Finally you say: “On whose behalf are you speaking? The Lebanese and the rest of the world? Had that been the case, the cookie would’ve crumbled years ago. This “small part” that Hezbollah has done is why a greater Lebanon exists. If it wasn’t for Hezbollah, the Israelis would be having tea with Ahmad Fatfat in downtown Beirut!”

    Further explanation: “HIND-SIDE IS 20/20, AND IT IS YET TO BE SEEN IF ISRAELWANTS TO BECOME AN OCCUPYING FOREIGN FORCE IN LEBANON. NO LEBANESE WOULD WANT THAT, INCLUDING ME. NOT FOR FRANCE, SYRIA, ISRAEL, IRAN, TURKEY, THE U.S. OR CHINA TO INTERFERE WITH LEBANON’S BUSINESS.

    BUT DID SYRIA DO THAT? YES THEY DID. ALL THOSE COUNTRIES CAN KEEP THEIR LONG ARMS TO THEMSELVES. LET LEBANON DECIDE WHAT IS FOR HER BEST INTEREST, WHEN TO TAKE ACTION AND WHEN NOT TO TAKE. NOT OTHERS.

    In conclusion, during my discussions with others, I had always defended Hezeb Allah and proclaimed Mr. Hassan Nisrallah,, as SOMEONE WHO HAS THE MANHOOD, BACKBONE AND RESOLVE TO STAND UP TO ISRAEL. But unfortunately recent events are painting new pictures.

    I would hope that HA is innocent, but, as more and more events unfold, I am not so sure. A political party killing a leader of a country would be construed as treason. I really hope so since if HA should be ousted from Lebanese lifeline then we are left with nothing. Back to the drawing board. Unless of course HA joins the Lebanese army and fights together as one. Don’t let them divide you.

    Have a nice weekend, and, once again, thank you for your interest in my comments.

  25. Spies had access to the Telecom..case closed..Evidence has been compromised.

  26. Spies had access to the Telecom..case closed..Evidence has been compromised.

  27. Spies had access to the Telecom..case closed..Evidence has been compromised.

  28. Spies had access to the Telecom..case closed..Evidence has been compromised.

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