Is War The Only Choice?

Share:

By Ghassan KaramAn Israeli tank maneuvers near the site of an exchange of fire between Israeli and Lebanese troops along the border between Israel and Lebanon, Tuesday, Aug. 3, 2010.

It has been almost a century of tension conflict war death and destruction in the Middle East. The conflict that has preoccupied the UN world leaders, Arab regimes and Zionists appears as far from a comprehensive resolution as it ever was. That is unacceptable since the killing; destruction misery and mayhem must stop. This single conflict has resulted so far in the wars of 1948, 1958, 1967, 1973, 1982, 2006, 2008 in addition to the two Intifadas, Black September in Jordan, Damour, Sabra-Shatilla, Palestinian –Amal  and Naher El Bared in Lebanon. Since tragedies, all tragedies had to eventually come to an end we should ask whether this imbroglio is so exceptional and so unique that it will go on forever. History teaches us though that no conflict between any two peoples goes unresolved. If we know that at some point there will have to be a resolution then wouldn’t the sensible thing be to lessen the uncertainty, decrease the misery and seek an honest and equitable synthesis of what separates the two sides.

Egypt and Jordan have signed separate peace treaties with Israel. These treaties have failed to live up to the expectations of the optimists but at least they have stooped the periodic devastating wars and allowed the governments to concentrate on civilian projects rather than wasteful expenditures on arms and killing machines. It would be difficult to argue that these two peace agreements have not served the countries well. Each of the two Arab states was able to negotiate an honourable agreement that respects its borders, sovereignty and ability to concentrate on its primary duty, improvement of the level of welfare of its citizens. I am sure that thousands of mothers have been spared the pain of losing their children to the war machine and an equally large number of fathers grateful for the opportunity to experience the joys of grand fatherhood that might have been stolen from them otherwise. And of course many young brides and good friends have been spared the ravages of war. If all of that is good for the Egyptians and the Jordanians then why isn’t it acceptable for the Lebanese to do the same?  Where is it written that Lebanon is not allowed to pursue its own aspirations to prosper and avoid war? Are we condemned to fight on just because the Iranian Grand Ayatollah believes that the state of Israel should not exist? If that is so then why is it that Iran is willing to fight Israel to the last Lebanese and possibly the last Gaza resident

All activities, be they of individuals, institutions or states must have a purpose and a well defined mean to attain it. No state should chose constant war when it can seek peace. The ultimate responsibility of a state is to protect its borders against incursions and to provide conditions within its borders that are conducive to the betterment of life for its citizens. The first goal, protection of the borders, is best accomplished through negotiations and peaceful means provide the outcome does not infringe on the rights and sovereignty of the parties. When such an option is available then it would be criminal to reject it and chose the attainment of the same exact goals but by paying a higher price in blood and treasure. Only irrational people will opt for the more costly and more painful solution. Unfortunately that is what Lebanon appears to be doing. Our political leaders, our businessmen and women and our civil society owe the country in general and the youth in particular an answer to the question of why must the option of suffering, death and destruction is the only choice? What if we can get back all the land and have safe borders without war? Why are we standing by as Hezbollah takes us to the abyss?

Share:

Comments

144 responses to “Is War The Only Choice?”

  1. Sebouh80 Avatar

    Interesting article.
    First of all, the Lebanese situation as we know is quite different from other neighboring Arab states.
    In retrospect, the last attempt for serious peace and reconciliation between Lebanon and Israel was on May 17 1983 and we kmow how badly that episode ended.
    The agreement failed for a number of reasons.
    First the agreement called the Lebanese Army to take over Israeli positions. Because the army collapsed in February 1984, Lebanon could not keep their side of the agreement.
    Second, the agreement met strong opposition from Lebanese Muslims and in the Arab world, and it was potrayed as an imposed surrender.
    Third, Syria’s opposition to the agreement was vocal, and by refusing to move its troops from Lebanese soil, Damascus effectively torpedoed its implementation, since Israeli withdrawal was contingent on Syria’s doing the same.
    Today not much has changed since those days in terms of realpolitik. Now as we know both Iran and Syria and others are merely using this small country for a potential battleground with Israel and this done with the help of their internal proxies.
    Finally, Mr. Karam, whether we like it or not Lebanon is condemned to become a pawn state to regional patron countries.
    This is the sad truth.
    Sebouh Akharjalian

    1. Ghassankaram Avatar
      Ghassankaram

      The 1983 agreement was viewed as a capitulation since it came about when Israeli troops were in Lebanon. If one can negotiate iron clad guarantees for the Lebanese border with Israel and a return of the disputed areas then one must give that option serious thought. I do not believe that we are.

      1. Yeah, a capitulation to Syrian pressure to abrogate.

    2. Another person with pragmatic common sense. Only if people like us are placed in positions of power to make the correct changes to surgically remove oppression born out of religious intolerance, race and choice of lifestyle. Modern world does not know that around, if I am not mistaken, around 200 a.d. the Persian battled the Armenians for over 100 years to break the wills of christian Armenia to submit to Persian agenda. Long remember KATCH VARTAN.

      Now, while the stench of Armenian blood still resinates on their breath, the Turkish government is addressing Israeli aggression? Really! May be the Turks should first admit what they did to the Armenian, give us our land back, pay retribution and then do the moral thing. Oh, but I forget. It were the Armenians who killed the Turks with their make shift memorial bull shit.

      THE POINT IS; IT IS NOT JUST WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE PALESTINIANS TODAY. THE ARAB WORK SHOULD TELL THE TURKS “YOUR HANDS ARE TOO BLOODY”. WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA? ARE YOU FEARING THE PERSIANS?

      t

  2.  Avatar

    Interesting article.

    First of all, the Lebanese situation as we know is quite different from other neighboring Arab states.

    In retrospect, the last attempt for serious peace and reconciliation between Lebanon and Israel was on May 17 1983 and we kmow how badly that episode ended.

    The agreement failed for a number of reasons.

    First the agreement called the Lebanese Army to take over Israeli positions. Because the army collapsed in February 1984, Lebanon could not keep their side of the agreement.

    Second, the agreement met strong opposition from Lebanese Muslims and in the Arab world, and it was potrayed as an imposed surrender.

    Third, Syria’s opposition to the agreement was vocal, and by refusing to move its troops from Lebanese soil, Damascus effectively torpedoed its implementation, since Israeli withdrawal was contingent on Syria’s doing the same.

    Today not much has changed since those days in terms of realpolitik. Now as we know both Iran and Syria and others are merely using this small country for a potential battleground with Israel and this done with the help of their internal proxies.

    Finally, Mr. Karam, whether we like it or not Lebanon is condemned to become a pawn state to regional patron countries.

    This is the sad truth.

    Sebouh Akharjalian

  3.  Avatar

    Interesting article.

    First of all, the Lebanese situation as we know is quite different from other neighboring Arab states.

    In retrospect, the last attempt for serious peace and reconciliation between Lebanon and Israel was on May 17 1983 and we kmow how badly that episode ended.

    The agreement failed for a number of reasons.

    First the agreement called the Lebanese Army to take over Israeli positions. Because the army collapsed in February 1984, Lebanon could not keep their side of the agreement.

    Second, the agreement met strong opposition from Lebanese Muslims and in the Arab world, and it was potrayed as an imposed surrender.

    Third, Syria’s opposition to the agreement was vocal, and by refusing to move its troops from Lebanese soil, Damascus effectively torpedoed its implementation, since Israeli withdrawal was contingent on Syria’s doing the same.

    Today not much has changed since those days in terms of realpolitik. Now as we know both Iran and Syria and others are merely using this small country for a potential battleground with Israel and this done with the help of their internal proxies.

    Finally, Mr. Karam, whether we like it or not Lebanon is condemned to become a pawn state to regional patron countries.

    This is the sad truth.

    Sebouh Akharjalian

    1.  Avatar

      The 1983 agreement was viewed as a capitulation since it came about when Israeli troops were in Lebanon. If one can negotiate iron clad guarantees for the Lebanese border with Israel and a return of the disputed areas then one must give that option serious thought. I do not believe that we are.

      1. Yeah, a capitulation to Syrian pressure to abrogate.

    2.  Avatar

      Another person with pragmatic common sense. Only if people like us are placed in positions of power to make the correct changes to surgically remove oppression born out of religious intolerance, race and choice of lifestyle. Modern world does not know that around, if I am not mistaken, around 200 a.d. the Persian battled the Armenians for over 100 years to break the wills of christian Armenia to submit to Persian agenda. Long remember KATCH VARTAN.

      Now, while the stench of Armenian blood still resinates on their breath, the Turkish government is addressing Israeli aggression? Really! May be the Turks should first admit what they did to the Armenian, give us our land back, pay retribution and then do the moral thing. Oh, but I forget. It were the Armenians who killed the Turks with their make shift memorial bull shit.

      THE POINT IS; IT IS NOT JUST WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE PALESTINIANS TODAY. THE ARAB WORK SHOULD TELL THE TURKS “YOUR HANDS ARE TOO BLOODY”. WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA? ARE YOU FEARING THE PERSIANS?

      t

  4. PROPHET.T Avatar

    Ghassan K
    Seeking peace requires two sides (at least) ,just like the conduct of war needs more than one side.You seems to indicate that it is the Lebanese side who does not want peace, and that Israel is begging us for peace. Our problem with Israel had started way before the Iranian revolution was born. Your conviction that Lebanese are fighting for the Iranians, is irresponsible, to say the least. It’s an insult to everyone who died liberating our territories from Israel’s occupation. It’s a an insult to everyone who was killed by Israel’s aggression over the years.
    The peace process that began with the Madrid conference, included all sides of the conflict.. We all know how those negotiations ended. Israel( while occupying part of Lebanon) was setting conditions that were not acceptable to Lebanon then, and should not be acceptable now.
    Are you suggesting that Lebanon accepts any deal Israel offers, so we can say peace is established? Don’t you see how Israel is conducting the peace talks with the Palestinians while chipping off parts of the west bank on a daily bases, and setting condition after condition? Do you truly believe that Israel wants a peaceful solution that is fair to everyone involved( especially Palestinians)?If so, can you enlighten us?
    The type of peace which Israel is seeking , is a submissive type of peace by the Palestinians and Lebanese. Is this the kind of peace you want?The day Israel is willing to live as a normal country, is the day Israel would be willing to seek a peace process that is fair and comprehensive. A peace based on international laws, and UN resolutions ;A peace that would require Israel and Lebanon to have equal and similar conditions on both of the border. A peace that would guarantee Lebanon’s sovereignty and rights to defend and protect its borders and people. A peace process that would guarantee the right of return for Palestinian refugees. None of what I’m asking conflicts with international laws and Un resolutions.
    The day Israel agrees to abide by international laws, is the day you can blame Lebanese and Palestinians for not seeking peace, until then, Lebanese need to be prepared for defending themselves.
    You seem to want peace with Israel at any cost.
    George Washington said it best: “To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace”

    1. Hannibal Avatar

      I agree with Prophet that one sided peace is no peace at all… Jordan’s peace is a disaster to Jordan’s economy, as the accord was one sided on many economic levels. As far as a two state solution, I am not certain that the current “Swiss Cheese” Palestine is viable for the Palestinians any longer and the Israelis continue to build on Arab land and you know they are not sincere.
      As far as Lebanon is concerned that is a BIG YES!!! We should be able to choose whom to make peace with regardless of what sister states think. That being said, unless ALL Palestinians have the choice to go back to their homeland I do not believe Lebanon should sign a treaty with Israel. Notice the word choice: I think a Palestinian born in Lebanon should have the CHOICE to elect going back to Palestine or stay in Lebanon with full citizenship. I heard from many Palestinians they JUST want to go back home and refuse the Lebanese identity. I do not blame them.

      1. Ghassankaram Avatar
        Ghassankaram

        Hannibal,
        There was not a word about either the 2 state or the bi national state solution so please spare me that. What are you basing your statement that the Jordanian economy is worse off after the peace agreement? All metrics say that you are absolutely wrong. As for the Palestinians in Lebanon do I detect another veiled argument about how discriminating against the Palestinians in Lebanon is for their own good?

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          I was not commenting about your article to spare you anything. I am just stating my opinion. It has nothing to do with your article although my comment landed here. As far as your comment about Palestinians and another veiled argument I guess you read and interpreted my comment the way YOU want to see it. I must have caught you in a bad mood.

        2. Hannibal Avatar

          I was not commenting about your article to spare you anything. I am just stating my opinion. It has nothing to do with your article although my comment landed here. As far as your comment about Palestinians and another veiled argument I guess you read and interpreted my comment the way YOU want to see it. I must have caught you in a bad mood.

      2. Yeah, good old Jordan, it was part of British Palestine, has a Palestinian Arab majority unlike Israel-West Bank, but no one talks about Jordan. Good old Jordan ahhh

      3. I agree that one sided peace is no peace at all. That’s why I don’t agree that Israel should a: retain Israeli Arabs while the Palestinian state is allowed to expel all Jews, AND that Arab refugees will not go to the state being created FOR them but instead go to Israel. That is a one sided, retarded settlement of the conflict.

    2. Ghassankaram Avatar
      Ghassankaram

      Prophet,
      You might be surprised on the large number of issues that we are in agreement on. No one , certainly not I, has said that Israel is doing the right thing. I have over and over again stated that the Israeli government has no interest in peace currently and that a continuation of these policies will backfire on Israel. But that is not the subject of this short piece. This is not about a resolution of the West Bank Gaza issue , not even about the Golan. I am stating that Lebanon has been dragged into choosing confrontation without finding out if there is another path. I am not going to suggest that I am certain that the Israelis will satisfy the demands of the Lebanese but I would bet that they will find it very difficult to refuse honest negotiations with Lebanon. We have not even tried.
      I fail to understand the logic of saying Lebanon will not even consider peace until after Syria and the Palestinians have reached an agreement with Israel. Why should that be? So that Syria will use Lebanon as a pawn in its negotiations. Why shouldn’t Lebanon use Syria as a pawn in our own negotiations.
      Ultimately I am sking one question: If there is a process that will deliver to Lebanon its sovereignty and land without the need for war then would we consider it? I think that we shoul but sadly we will not.

      1. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Ghassan,
        Thank you for your response.
        I really didn’t intend to go back and forth on this, But again, you seem to either misread, or forget recent history .
        How did Lebanon get dragged into an unwanted war? Did Lebanon ever invade Israel and occupy its capital? Did Lebanon ever occupy Seven Israeli villages, and massacre some of their inhabitant and throw the surviving ones out ?
        Please Ghassan, let’s get realistic here.
        Your question, wether Lebanon has pursued a different path, beside war, indicate that Lebanon was the aggressor.
        Israel had a chance to withdraw from all occupied Lebanese territories in 2000, but refused to do so. Israel had a chance to release all Lebanese prisoners in 2000,and 2004, but decided not to.
        I don’t know what makes you think that Israel would be willing to respect our sovereignty now, or in the future. I don’t know what makes you think unilateral peace between Lebanon and Israel is feasible without the right of return for Palestinian refugees, or even a necessity at all.
        Lebanon does not need to sign a peace agreement with Israel. At one point, when all of our territories are returned, and the refugees are returned -if and only if Israel respects international law( I know you are a big advocate of international law)- we can negotiate an agreement of nonaggression, and mutual respect of sovereignty.

        1. Ghassankaram Avatar
          Ghassankaram

          Of course the Israelis were the aggressorsin 1982 and 2006 but you have to admit that we gave them every reason under the sun to invade. In the same way that Turkey gives itself the right to retaliate against the Kurds, The Russians the right to retaliate against the Chechensthe fact that uncontrolled missiles and attacks were being conducted from Lebanon provided the Israelis with a reasonable justification to conduct war. The same thing happened in 2006. One can argue whether it was only the abduction of the two soldiers or whether Israel would have fabricated another excuse but that is not helpful since it is pure speculation. I do know though that from 1948 -1982 Israel did not wage war with Lebanon except to retaliate against a PLO operation.As for the right of return , yes it should be used as a bargaining chip, it is one of the few left in the Palestinian hands but that should never excuse the sorry and deplorable conditions that the Palestinians live in Lebanon. I do want to go into a new area but as you know the equitable treatment in Lebanon does not lessen /dilute in any way the right of return.

        2. No. Lebanon gave support against Jewish Palestine in 47-49. Aside from that, I have argued against holding Lebanon responsible for what goes on within her borders because I believe that she is thus far, a failed state. However, anyone who wishes to disagree with me and talk Lebanon up as a state with sovereignty should note that a country has RESPONSIBILITY for what emanates from within her borders and Lebanon has allowed firstly, Palestinian Arab fedayeen and now Shiite fundamentalist militias to attack Israel, or more specifically, TARGET Israeli civilians.

        3. No. Lebanon gave support against Jewish Palestine in 47-49. Aside from that, I have argued against holding Lebanon responsible for what goes on within her borders because I believe that she is thus far, a failed state. However, anyone who wishes to disagree with me and talk Lebanon up as a state with sovereignty should note that a country has RESPONSIBILITY for what emanates from within her borders and Lebanon has allowed firstly, Palestinian Arab fedayeen and now Shiite fundamentalist militias to attack Israel, or more specifically, TARGET Israeli civilians.

        4. To Ghassan. Yes the only bargaining chip they have….aside from an ENTIRE REGION OF COUNTRIES BACKING THEM, THE FACT THAT THEIR BORDERS WILL BE ON ELEVATED MOUNTAINS OVERLOOKING OUR MAIN POPULATION CENTRES SO THEY’D BETTER BE SATISFIED WITH THEM, ALL NGOS AND IGOS SUPPORTING THEM, THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC GROWTH RATE etc etc etc.
          The Right of Return is a red herring and is the MAIN obstacle to peace.

        5. To Ghassan. Yes the only bargaining chip they have….aside from an ENTIRE REGION OF COUNTRIES BACKING THEM, THE FACT THAT THEIR BORDERS WILL BE ON ELEVATED MOUNTAINS OVERLOOKING OUR MAIN POPULATION CENTRES SO THEY’D BETTER BE SATISFIED WITH THEM, ALL NGOS AND IGOS SUPPORTING THEM, THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC GROWTH RATE etc etc etc.
          The Right of Return is a red herring and is the MAIN obstacle to peace.

        6. So, in other words, “Once Israel is destroyed demographically by the influx of Palestinian Arab refugees going to the other state of the alleged two (LOL) state solution, and once Israel has given Lebanon some insignificant tiny piece of land that used to belong to Syria, then there will be peace???” What kind of peace is that ‘Prophet’, if that is your real name.

        7. So basically, you just ignored everything I said and restated your rhetoric which I already replied to.

        8. ‘Sheba Farms’ was, according to UN maps, Syrian and Lebanese military maps, previously in Syrian territory.
          RE International law, it is up for interpretation. Are you a professor or international lawyer? If not then I hope you will not be offended if I decline to accept the legal opinion of someone who calls him/herself ‘Prophet’. In addition, the ‘Right of Return’ in terms of …to Israel, is not something which can possibly go hand in hand with peace with Israel. What you are talking about is destruction and war.

      2. Settlements are antagonistic to peace. The Palestinian insistence on implementation of an immigration of Arab refugees and their descendants from the 48 war to pre-67 Israel is an OBSTACLE to peace. It shows that they and the entire Arabic speaking world DO NOT accept peace based on two states for two peoples with equal rights for minorities.

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          The Palestinians have the right to return home as much as you have the right to go back home to Europe. To equate the Arabic speaking world to one country shows how ignorant YOU are. Every Levant country is different, and for the Palestinian descendants it is their right to decide whether to go back or not, and the majority of them want to go back home. As president Obama said: Two states or ONE state and it won’t be Israel.

        2. But you see Hannibal, Jews are NOT from Europe. We are all Middle Eastern, specifically South Levantine. Until you can accept that, there will not be peace. Also FYI, no other refugee definition includes decedents. Plus from what you’re saying, you don’t support two states for two peoples.

          1. In your opinion what would make Isreal sign a peace agreement with Lebanon and palistinian

          2. In your opinion what would make Isreal sign a peace agreement with Lebanon and palistinian

        3. Hannibal Avatar

          I totally agree with you! Arab and Levantine Jews are from the Middle East. However, the imported people whose religion is Judaism are indeed from Europe or the U.S. or Russia or other countries. Actually, you can sort them out easily from their names and appearances.I for instance am a Christian Lebanese. I am Lebanese first then a Christian by religion. So if I choose to change my religion to Judaism I will still be a Lebanese following the Jewish faith. You, on the other hand, should have a country like Germany, or Poland or Iran, or Yemen or Palestine if you were indeed from the Levant and worship according to Judaism. Being a Jew does not entitle you to have a nation pretty much like being a Moslem is not supposed to define you as an Arab like many of those idiot fanatics proclaim it to be. A country that defines itself under a religious flag like Israel or Iran or Saudi Arabia is a country living in the past, and it really belongs in history books… So come on join humanity…

        4. PROPHET.T Avatar

          HAPPY D
          I didn’t even advocate singing a peace agreement with Israel..
          What I tried to say is that Israel needs to respect international law, and abide by UN resolutions. Israel needs to withdraw from all Lebanese territories regardless. Lebanon does not have to sign a peace agreement with Israel, nor does it need to.
          If there is a solution( not likely anyway) with the Palestinians, where right of return is implemented, then Lebanon can sign a non aggression agreement with Israel, where both countries respect each other’s sovereignty.
          If the right of return will change the demographic map of Israel, it becomes Israel’s problem. Than ,one can talk about a one state solution, But not called Israel.

        5. Happy D. In your opinion what would it take for Isreal to make peace with the palistinian and lebanon?

    3. Oh sorry are you Palestinian? I was talking to the Lebanese people. Do you represent the entire Arabic speaking world? As you may have noticed, our Prime Ministers have consistently asked Lebanon to sign a peace deal. We cannot possibly dominate Lebanon. We have never claimed that any of post independence Lebanon should be a permenent part of Israel and nor would we. We see ourselves as a separate country from Lebanon, unlike certain other countries in the region.
      “A peace process that would guarantee the right of return for Palestinian refugees.” Means the destruction of my country, as such what you’re saying is that YOU DONT WANT PEACE AND WANT TO DESTROY MY COUNTRY.

    4. Which international laws are you referring to? Be more specific? I only ask because there have been many similar situations in world history which have DIFFERENT resolutions. This may be due to the fact that there are 22 (!) Arab states and one Israel.

  5. PROPHET.T Avatar

    Ghassan K
    Seeking peace requires two sides (at least) ,just like the conduct of war needs more than one side.You seems to indicate that it is the Lebanese side who does not want peace, and that Israel is begging us for peace. Our problem with Israel had started way before the Iranian revolution was born. Your conviction that Lebanese are fighting for the Iranians, is irresponsible, to say the least. It’s an insult to everyone who died liberating our territories from Israel’s occupation. It’s a an insult to everyone who was killed by Israel’s aggression over the years.
    The peace process that began with the Madrid conference, included all sides of the conflict.. We all know how those negotiations ended. Israel( while occupying part of Lebanon) was setting conditions that were not acceptable to Lebanon then, and should not be acceptable now.
    Are you suggesting that Lebanon accepts any deal Israel offers, so we can say peace is established? Don’t you see how Israel is conducting the peace talks with the Palestinians while chipping off parts of the west bank on a daily bases, and setting condition after condition? Do you truly believe that Israel wants a peaceful solution that is fair to everyone involved( especially Palestinians)?If so, can you enlighten us?
    The type of peace which Israel is seeking , is a submissive type of peace by the Palestinians and Lebanese. Is this the kind of peace you want?The day Israel is willing to live as a normal country, is the day Israel would be willing to seek a peace process that is fair and comprehensive. A peace based on international laws, and UN resolutions ;A peace that would require Israel and Lebanon to have equal and similar conditions on both of the border. A peace that would guarantee Lebanon’s sovereignty and rights to defend and protect its borders and people. A peace process that would guarantee the right of return for Palestinian refugees. None of what I’m asking conflicts with international laws and Un resolutions.
    The day Israel agrees to abide by international laws, is the day you can blame Lebanese and Palestinians for not seeking peace, until then, Lebanese need to be prepared for defending themselves.
    You seem to want peace with Israel at any cost.
    George Washington said it best: “To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace”

    1. Hannibal Avatar

      I agree with Prophet that one sided peace is no peace at all… Jordan’s peace is a disaster to Jordan’s economy, as the accord was one sided on many economic levels. As far as a two state solution, I am not certain that the current “Swiss Cheese” Palestine is viable for the Palestinians any longer and the Israelis continue to build on Arab land and you know they are not sincere.
      As far as Lebanon is concerned that is a BIG YES!!! We should be able to choose whom to make peace with regardless of what sister states think. That being said, unless ALL Palestinians have the choice to go back to their homeland I do not believe Lebanon should sign a treaty with Israel. Notice the word choice: I think a Palestinian born in Lebanon should have the CHOICE to elect going back to Palestine or stay in Lebanon with full citizenship. I heard from many Palestinians they JUST want to go back home and refuse the Lebanese identity. I do not blame them.

      1. Yeah, good old Jordan, it was part of British Palestine, has a Palestinian Arab majority unlike Israel-West Bank, but no one talks about Jordan. Good old Jordan ahhh

  6. PROPHET.T Avatar

    Ghassan K

    Seeking peace requires two sides (at least) ,just like the conduct of war needs more than one side.

    Your article seems to indicate that it is the Lebanese side who does not want peace, and that Israel is begging us for peace. Our problem with Israel had started way before the Iranian revolution was born. Your conviction that Lebanese are fighting for the Iranians, is irresponsible, to say the least. It’s an insult to everyone who died liberating our territories from Israel’s occupation. It’s a an insult to everyone who was killed by Israel’s aggression over the years.

    You know that the peace process that began with the Madrid conference, included all sides of the conflict, including Lebanon. We all know how those negotiations ended. Israel( while occupying part of Lebanon) was setting conditions that were not acceptable to Lebanon then, and should not be acceptable now.

    Are you suggesting that Lebanon accepts any deal Israel offers, so we can say peace is established? Don’t you see how Israel is conducting the peace talks with the Palestinians while chipping off parts of the west bank on a daily bases, and setting condition after condition? Do you truly believe that Israel wants a peaceful solution that is fair to everyone involved( especially Palestinians)?If so, can you enlighten us?

    The peace that Israel is seeking is a submissive form of peace by the Palestinians and Lebanese. Is this the kind of peace you want?

    The day Israel is willing to live as a normal country, is the day Israel would be willing to seek a peace process that is fair and comprehensive. A peace based on international laws, and UN resolutions ;A peace that would require Israel and Lebanon to have equal and similar conditions on both of the border. A peace that would guarantee Lebanon’s sovereignty and rights to defend and protect its borders and people. A peace process that would guarantee the right of return for Palestinian refugees. None of what I’m asking conflicts with international laws and Un resolutions.

    The day Israel agrees to abide by international laws, is the day you can blame Lebanese and Palestinians for not seeking peace, until then, Lebanese need to be prepared for defending themselves. George Washington said it best: “To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace”

    1. I agree with Prophet that one sided peace is no peace at all… Jordan’s peace is a disaster to Jordan’s economy, as the accord was one sided on many economic levels. As far as a two state solution, I am not certain that the current “Swiss Cheese” Palestine is viable for the Palestinians any longer and the Israelis continue to build on Arab land and you know they are not sincere.
      As far as Lebanon is concerned that is a BIG YES!!! We should be able to choose whom to make peace with regardless of what sister states think. That being said, unless ALL Palestinians have the choice to go back to their homeland I do not believe Lebanon should sign a treaty with Israel. Notice the word choice: I think a Palestinian born in Lebanon should have the CHOICE to elect going back to Palestine or stay in Lebanon with full citizenship. I heard from many Palestinians they JUST want to go back home and refuse the Lebanese identity. I do not blame them.

      1.  Avatar

        Hannibal,
        There was not a word about either the 2 state or the bi national state solution so please spare me that. What are you basing your statement that the Jordanian economy is worse off after the peace agreement? All metrics say that you are absolutely wrong. As for the Palestinians in Lebanon do I detect another veiled argument about how discriminating against the Palestinians in Lebanon is for their own good?

        1. I was not commenting about your article to spare you anything. I am just stating my opinion. It has nothing to do with your article although my comment landed here. As far as your comment about Palestinians and another veiled argument I guess you read and interpreted my comment the way YOU want to see it. I must have caught you in a bad mood.

      2. Yeah, good old Jordan, it was part of British Palestine, has a Palestinian Arab majority unlike Israel-West Bank, but no one talks about Jordan. Good old Jordan ahhh

      3. I agree that one sided peace is no peace at all. That’s why I don’t agree that Israel should a: retain Israeli Arabs while the Palestinian state is allowed to expel all Jews, AND that Arab refugees will not go to the state being created FOR them but instead go to Israel. That is a one sided, retarded settlement of the conflict.

    2.  Avatar

      Prophet,
      You might be surprised on the large number of issues that we are in agreement on. No one , certainly not I, has said that Israel is doing the right thing. I have over and over again stated that the Israeli government has no interest in peace currently and that a continuation of these policies will backfire on Israel. But that is not the subject of this short piece. This is not about a resolution of the West Bank Gaza issue , not even about the Golan. I am stating that Lebanon has been dragged into choosing confrontation without finding out if there is another path. I am not going to suggest that I am certain that the Israelis will satisfy the demands of the Lebanese but I would bet that they will find it very difficult to refuse honest negotiations with Lebanon. We have not even tried.
      I fail to understand the logic of saying Lebanon will not even consider peace until after Syria and the Palestinians have reached an agreement with Israel. Why should that be? So that Syria will use Lebanon as a pawn in its negotiations. Why shouldn’t Lebanon use Syria as a pawn in our own negotiations.
      Ultimately I am sking one question: If there is a process that will deliver to Lebanon its sovereignty and land without the need for war then would we consider it? I think that we shoul but sadly we will not.

      1. PROPHET.T Avatar

        Ghassan,

        Thank you for your response.

        I really didn’t intend to go back and forth on this, But again, you seem to either misread, or forget recent history .

        How did Lebanon get dragged into an unwanted war? Did Lebanon ever invade Israel and occupy its capital? Did Lebanon ever occupy Seven Israeli villages, and massacre some of their inhabitant and throw the surviving ones out ?

        Please Ghassan, let’s get realistic here.

        Your question, wether Lebanon has pursued a different path, beside war, indicate that Lebanon was the aggressor.

        Israel had a chance to withdraw from all occupied Lebanese territories in 2000, but refused to do so. Israel had a chance to release all Lebanese prisoners in 2000,and 2004, but decided not to.

        I don’t know what makes you think that Israel would be willing to respect our sovereignty now, or in the future. I don’t know what makes you think unilateral peace between Lebanon and Israel is feasible without the right of return for Palestinian refugees, or even a necessity at all.

        Lebanon does not need to sign a peace agreement with Israel. At one point, when all of our territories are returned, and the refugees are returned -if and only if Israel respects international law( I know you are a big advocate of international law)- we can negotiate an agreement of nonaggression, and mutual respect of sovereignty.

        1.  Avatar

          Of course the Israelis were the aggressorsin 1982 and 2006 but you have to admit that we gave them every reason under the sun to invade. In the same way that Turkey gives itself the right to retaliate against the Kurds, The Russians the right to retaliate against the Chechensthe fact that uncontrolled missiles and attacks were being conducted from Lebanon provided the Israelis with a reasonable justification to conduct war. The same thing happened in 2006. One can argue whether it was only the abduction of the two soldiers or whether Israel would have fabricated another excuse but that is not helpful since it is pure speculation. I do know though that from 1948 -1982 Israel did not wage war with Lebanon except to retaliate against a PLO operation.As for the right of return , yes it should be used as a bargaining chip, it is one of the few left in the Palestinian hands but that should never excuse the sorry and deplorable conditions that the Palestinians live in Lebanon. I do want to go into a new area but as you know the equitable treatment in Lebanon does not lessen /dilute in any way the right of return.

        2. No. Lebanon gave support against Jewish Palestine in 47-49. Aside from that, I have argued against holding Lebanon responsible for what goes on within her borders because I believe that she is thus far, a failed state. However, anyone who wishes to disagree with me and talk Lebanon up as a state with sovereignty should note that a country has RESPONSIBILITY for what emanates from within her borders and Lebanon has allowed firstly, Palestinian Arab fedayeen and now Shiite fundamentalist militias to attack Israel, or more specifically, TARGET Israeli civilians.

        3. To Ghassan. Yes the only bargaining chip they have….aside from an ENTIRE REGION OF COUNTRIES BACKING THEM, THE FACT THAT THEIR BORDERS WILL BE ON ELEVATED MOUNTAINS OVERLOOKING OUR MAIN POPULATION CENTRES SO THEY’D BETTER BE SATISFIED WITH THEM, ALL NGOS AND IGOS SUPPORTING THEM, THEIR DEMOGRAPHIC GROWTH RATE etc etc etc.
          The Right of Return is a red herring and is the MAIN obstacle to peace.

        4. So, in other words, “Once Israel is destroyed demographically by the influx of Palestinian Arab refugees going to the other state of the alleged two (LOL) state solution, and once Israel has given Lebanon some insignificant tiny piece of land that used to belong to Syria, then there will be peace???” What kind of peace is that ‘Prophet’, if that is your real name.

        5. So basically, you just ignored everything I said and restated your rhetoric which I already replied to.

      2. Settlements are antagonistic to peace. The Palestinian insistence on implementation of an immigration of Arab refugees and their descendants from the 48 war to pre-67 Israel is an OBSTACLE to peace. It shows that they and the entire Arabic speaking world DO NOT accept peace based on two states for two peoples with equal rights for minorities.

        1. The Palestinians have the right to return home as much as you have the right to go back home to Europe. To equate the Arabic speaking world to one country shows how ignorant YOU are. Every Levant country is different, and for the Palestinian descendants it is their right to decide whether to go back or not, and the majority of them want to go back home. As president Obama said: Two states or ONE state and it won’t be Israel.

        2. But you see Hannibal, Jews are NOT from Europe. We are all Middle Eastern, specifically South Levantine. Until you can accept that, there will not be peace. Also FYI, no other refugee definition includes decedents. Plus from what you’re saying, you don’t support two states for two peoples.

          1.  Avatar

            In your opinion what would make Isreal sign a peace agreement with Lebanon and palistinian

        3. I totally agree with you! Arab and Levantine Jews are from the Middle East. However, the exported people whose religion is Judaism are indeed from Europe or the U.S. or Russia or other countries. Actually, you can sort them out easily from their names and appearances.
          I for instance am a Christian Lebanese. I am Lebanese first then a Christian by religion. So if I choose to change my religion to Judaism I will still be a Lebanese following the Jewish faith. You, on the other hand, should have a country like Germany, or Poland or Iran, or Yemen or Palestine if you were indeed from the Levant and worship according to Judaism. Being a Jew does not entitle you to have a nation pretty much like being a Moslem is not supposed to define you as an Arab like many of those idiot fanatics proclaim it to be. A country that defines itself under a religious flag like Israel or Iran or Saudi Arabia is a country living in the past, and it really belongs in history books… So come on join humanity…

        4. PROPHET.T Avatar

          HAPPY D

          I didn’t even advocate singing a peace agreement with Israel..

          What I tried to say is that Israel needs to respect international law, and UN resolutions. Israel needs to withdraw from al Lebanese territories regardless. Lebanon does not have to sign a peace agreement with Israel, nor does it need to.

          If there is a solution( not likely anyway) with the Palestinians, where right of return is implemented, then Lebanon can sign a non aggression agreement with Israel, where both countries respect each other’s sovereignty.

          If the right of return will change the demographic map of Israel, it becomes Israel’s problem. Than ,one can talk about a one state solution, But not called Israel.

        5. PROPHET.T Avatar

          HAPPY D

          I didn’t even advocate singing a peace agreement with Israel..

          What I tried to say is that Israel needs to respect international law, and UN resolutions. Israel needs to withdraw from al Lebanese territories regardless. Lebanon does not have to sign a peace agreement with Israel, nor does it need to.

          If there is a solution( not likely anyway) with the Palestinians, where right of return is implemented, then Lebanon can sign a non aggression agreement with Israel, where both countries respect each other’s sovereignty.

          If the right of return will change the demographic map of Israel, it becomes Israel’s problem. Than ,one can talk about a one state solution, But not called Israel.

        6.  Avatar

          Happy D. In your opinion what would it take for Isreal to make peace with the palistinian and lebanon?

    3.  Avatar

      Prophet,
      You might be surprised on the large number of issues that we are in agreement on. No one , certainly not I, has said that Israel is doing the right thing. I have over and over again stated that the Israeli government has no interest in peace currently and that a continuation of these policies will backfire on Israel. But that is not the subject of this short piece. This is not about a resolution of the West Bank Gaza issue , not even about the Golan. I am stating that Lebanon has been dragged into choosing confrontation without finding out if there is another path. I am not going to suggest that I am certain that the Israelis will satisfy the demands of the Lebanese but I would bet that they will find it very difficult to refuse honest negotiations with Lebanon. We have not even tried.
      I fail to understand the logic of saying Lebanon will not even consider peace until after Syria and the Palestinians have reached an agreement with Israel. Why should that be? So that Syria will use Lebanon as a pawn in its negotiations. Why shouldn’t Lebanon use Syria as a pawn in our own negotiations.
      Ultimately I am sking one question: If there is a process that will deliver to Lebanon its sovereignty and land without the need for war then would we consider it? I think that we shoul but sadly we will not.

    4.  Avatar

      Prophet,
      You might be surprised on the large number of issues that we are in agreement on. No one , certainly not I, has said that Israel is doing the right thing. I have over and over again stated that the Israeli government has no interest in peace currently and that a continuation of these policies will backfire on Israel. But that is not the subject of this short piece. This is not about a resolution of the West Bank Gaza issue , not even about the Golan. I am stating that Lebanon has been dragged into choosing confrontation without finding out if there is another path. I am not going to suggest that I am certain that the Israelis will satisfy the demands of the Lebanese but I would bet that they will find it very difficult to refuse honest negotiations with Lebanon. We have not even tried.
      I fail to understand the logic of saying Lebanon will not even consider peace until after Syria and the Palestinians have reached an agreement with Israel. Why should that be? So that Syria will use Lebanon as a pawn in its negotiations. Why shouldn’t Lebanon use Syria as a pawn in our own negotiations.
      Ultimately I am sking one question: If there is a process that will deliver to Lebanon its sovereignty and land without the need for war then would we consider it? I think that we shoul but sadly we will not.

    5. Oh sorry are you Palestinian? I was talking to the Lebanese people. Do you represent the entire Arabic speaking world? As you may have noticed, our Prime Ministers have consistently asked Lebanon to sign a peace deal. We cannot possibly dominate Lebanon. We have never claimed that any of post independence Lebanon should be a permenent part of Israel and nor would we. We see ourselves as a separate country from Lebanon, unlike certain other countries in the region.
      “A peace process that would guarantee the right of return for Palestinian refugees.” Means the destruction of my country, as such what you’re saying is that YOU DONT WANT PEACE AND WANT TO DESTROY MY COUNTRY.

    6. Which international laws are you referring to? Be more specific? I only ask because there have been many similar situations in world history which have DIFFERENT resolutions. This may be due to the fact that there are 22 (!) Arab states and one Israel.

  7. Fauzia45 Avatar

    It s very difficult to find a solution to these problems since they have existed for a long time,These political problems exist due to the religious social intellectual diverse communities which are loyal to their leader and not to the state,If groups decide to control political and foreign policy by force and disregard the others,there will always be problems This is a danger to the existence of the state!!As Hourani said years ago,¨Lebanon s problems are problems of foreign policy¨He suggested ,¨,,,A free and sovereign Assembly where religious communities meet and unite for a common control of political life¨!Perhaps ,then and only then ,will Lebanon be able ¨to pursue its aspirations to prosper and avoid war¨!

    1. Ghassankaram Avatar
      Ghassankaram

      Fauzia,
      I think that the Hourani suggestion is a step in the right direction (To be honest, I have not heard of this before) but my preference would be for a total secular state. Do you have any specific references to the Hourani idea?

      1. Fauzia45 Avatar

        I read this in Houran s book ,Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age ,the chapter on Arab nationalism,I think he is referring to Chiha ,Liban d,aujourd,hui, .

      2. Fauzia45 Avatar

        I read this in Houran s book ,Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age ,the chapter on Arab nationalism,I think he is referring to Chiha ,Liban d,aujourd,hui, .

    2. It’s not difficult. Permanent renunciation of implementation of the right of return in exchange for a permanent settlement freeze.

  8.  Avatar

    It s very difficult to find a solution to these problems since they have existed for a long time,These political problems exist due to the religious social intellectual diverse communities which are loyal to their leader and not to the state,If groups decide to control political and foreign policy by force and disregard the others,there will always be problems This is a danger to the existence of the state!!As Hourani said years ago,¨Lebanon s problems are problems of foreign policy¨He suggested ,¨,,,A free and sovereign Assembly where religious communities meet and unite for a common control of political life¨!Perhaps ,then and only then ,will Lebanon be able ¨to pursue its aspirations to prosper and avoid war¨!

    1.  Avatar

      Fauzia,
      I think that the Hourani suggestion is a step in the right direction (To be honest, I have not heard of this before) but my preference would be for a total secular state. Do you have any specific references to the Hourani idea?

      1.  Avatar

        I read this in Houran s book ,Arabic Thought in the Liberal Age ,the chapter on Arab nationalism,I think he is referring to Chiha ,Liban d,aujourd,hui, .

    2. It’s not difficult. Permanent renunciation of implementation of the right of return in exchange for a permanent settlement freeze.

  9. We still want peace just as we always have. Just accept us. We are called ISRAEL.

    Sincerely,
    Zionist

    1. Hannibal Avatar

      Happy D,
      I would have really and honestly started at least talking about HOW to move this acceptance forward but you had to sign your comment with “Zionist”. Let me ask you this? Would you consider peace with a German who signs his comment with… Sincerely, Nazi? Israel needs to define itself once more in this sea of change and stop treating its neighbors as second class humans if at all. So I suggest, start working on it or face war again, something nobody really wants.

      1. The fact that you equate ‘Zionist’ with ‘Nazi’ shows that there is no hope of peace with ignorant people like yourself until you open your mind and read some history and read the ideologies you speak of.

        1. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          On paper, Zionism is nothing like Nazism, but he’s referring to the actions on the Palestinian people that can be compared to, such as checkpoints, blockades, division wall, illegal house evictions…very similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews

        2. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          On paper, Zionism is nothing like Nazism, but he’s referring to the actions on the Palestinian people that can be compared to, such as checkpoints, blockades, division wall, illegal house evictions…very similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews

        3. You also need to read the history of Nazi atrocities towards the Jews Kareem. We never rounded up Palestinian Arabs, gassed them, cremated them and made soap from them.

        4. In addition, a few decades of un democratic inequality is little compared with the 1200 years of extortion, discrimination, pogroms and passive aggressive ethnic cleansing that the Arabs did to Middle Eastern Jews in Bilad el Sham.

        5. kareemthehippy Avatar
          kareemthehippy

          I’m not saying they’re 100% the same thing, Not-so-Happy D, but there are various similarities with the way they’re treated.

      2. Oh yeah Kareem and perhaps Hitler like similar sorts of ties, watches and biscuit assortments to Michel Aoun and Rafik Hariri but it wasn’t exactly the most memorable thing about the Nazis.

        1. My point is:
          There are those who say that Israel keeps the Palestinian Arabs in ghetto like conditions. There are those who disagree. There are those who say that the British Palestine Arabs fled and there were those who say that they were expelled. There have unfortunately been many cases in history of expulsions and ghettoizations. Picking the Nazis in order to illustrate your point is something with an ulterior motive, it is a cheap shot and invalidates your argument.

  10. We still want peace just as we always have. Just accept us. We are called ISRAEL.

    Sincerely,
    Zionist

    1. Happy D,
      I would have really and honestly started at least talking about HOW to move this acceptance forward but you had to sign your comment with “Zionist”. Let me ask you this? Would you consider peace with a German who signs his comment with… Sincerely, Nazi? Israel needs to define itself once more in this sea of change and stop treating its neighbors as second class humans if at all. So I suggest, start working on it or face war again, something nobody really wants.

      1. The fact that you equate ‘Zionist’ with ‘Nazi’ shows that there is no hope of peace with ignorant people like yourself until you open your mind and read some history and read the ideologies you speak of.

        1.  Avatar

          On paper, Zionism is nothing like Nazism, but he’s referring to the actions on the Palestinian people that can be compared to, such as checkpoints, blockades, division wall, illegal house evictions…very similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews

        2. You also need to read the history of Nazi atrocities towards the Jews Kareem. We never rounded up Palestinian Arabs, gassed them, cremated them and made soap from them.

        3. In addition, a few decades of un democratic inequality is little compared with the 1200 years of extortion, discrimination, pogroms and passive aggressive ethnic cleansing that the Arabs did to Middle Eastern Jews in Bilad el Sham.

        4.  Avatar

          I’m not saying they’re 100% the same thing, Not-so-Happy D, but there are various similarities with the way they’re treated.

      2. Oh yeah Kareem and perhaps Hitler like similar sorts of ties, watches and biscuit assortments to Michel Aoun and Rafik Hariri but it wasn’t exactly the most memorable thing about the Nazis.

        1. My point is:
          There are those who say that Israel keeps the Palestinian Arabs in ghetto like conditions. There are those who disagree. There are those who say that the British Palestine Arabs fled and there were those who say that they were expelled. There have unfortunately been many cases in history of expulsions and ghettoizations. Picking the Nazis in order to illustrate your point is something with an ulterior motive, it is a cheap shot and invalidates your argument.

  11. kareemthehippy Avatar
    kareemthehippy

    the problem is really that Israel hides its atrocities. It’s kinda like the Apartheid issue in South Africa, except that all the hidden shit is lasting for a longer period of time.

    War? No. because it’ll definitely expand. Honestly, we need movements that will rise to expose the Israeli atrocities and want justice for the Palestinians THAT ARE NOT MILITANTS . Anarchist movements in the Middle East and left wing movements in the US are like that.

    Boycot, divest or BDS (Boycot divestment sanctions) will make a HUGE impact…and when people who vow themselves to Hezbollah see that there are no violent methods to expose the atrocities of Israel, they will take those methods, apart from the view that are generally racist against Jews in general because they’re stupid.

    Allowing this will lower support for Hezbollah, and will hopefully develop progress in ending the many violations of Israel.

    The idea is to keep Lebanon out of this in terms of being involved in war. It’s important that we show our support for Palestinians and that we boycott and expose the human rights violations in Israel and the international law violations…

    For the betterment of Lebanon, we can still show our support for Palestine and our disapproval with Israel’s actions without putting our lives at risk and exposing our country to Israel’s army.

    (SORRY FOR THE UNORGANIZED POST)

    1. Hannibal Avatar

      Aren’t you supposed to be readying for midterms or something? 😛

      1. kareemthehippy Avatar
        kareemthehippy

        Finished them last week with straight A’s. What do you take me for? 😛

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          Proud of you Kareem… I am also extremely happy about your activities regarding Palestine on Campus… Also, I didn’t forget you brother… But the guys tell me your schedule did not overlap well this time around. Will you forward me another for next semester at your convenience?
          BTW your hair had nothing to do with it… lol

          1. kareemthehippy Avatar
            kareemthehippy

            Lol Khouri, it’s you. Yeah the schedule didn’t work out…I’m in 5 clubs and they wanted people to work at night, and I said I couldn’t because I had work to finish up haha.

            Sure, we’ll see what my schedule is like next semester and whether I’ll be as busy or not!

            I’m glad the hair had nothing to do with it; otherwise, it’d have been shallow 😛

        2. Hannibal Avatar

          Proud of you Kareem… I am also extremely happy about your activities regarding Palestine on Campus… Also, I didn’t forget you brother… But the guys tell me your schedule did not overlap well this time around. Will you forward me another for next semester at your convenience?
          BTW your hair had nothing to do with it… lol

    2. Yeah, Palestine isn’t a country yet. It never has been. Despite all of the fighting in Lebanon against being used, I see that you lost and are manipulated and used as a tool to destroy Israel. Such a shame. Which Israeli atrocities? Only Israeli ones or also Arab/Palestinian ones? Jewish lives don’t matter right?

      1. kareemthehippy Avatar
        kareemthehippy

        Which Israel atrocities? Shall we begin with, Happy D? Okay. The wall that divides the West Bank and Israel on West Bank’s territory (a la apartheid wall), house evictions in the West Bank are ILLEGAL, yet they are happening and settlers are being protecting by the Israeli army. Israel imposing curfews and checkpoints in East Jerusalem. The maritime blockade in Gaza, as well as the border blockade.

        We don’t support Hamas, and I don’t deny that Hamas have done some horrible things, but comparing a resistance/terrorist group to a strong military really lowers your standards for a country you sympathize with or support, am I right?

        Of course Jewish lives don’t matter; you’re just playing the anti-semetism card again! Most members of the club I’m in are Jews, including the president himself, and I’m the only Arab in it, so don’t play that crap with me.

        Zionism is a political ideology, and Judaism is a religion. My roommate is a Jew, I had a crush on a Jewish girl, and I have nothing against people of a certain ethnic group or religion. It’s a simple political ideology which is harming the lives of many.

        What’s in a name? People came to a territory where people lived, and forced them to leave or live under their rule against their will. This is complete crap and inhumane! Before the state of Israel, Jewish people emigrated to Palestine under British rule and the two co-existed…it was until there were things like the bombing of the King David hotel, by Zionists mind you, that led to England leaving and the UN declaring the State of Israel.

        Lost and manipulated and used as a tool! Clearly if you got to know me I have more substance than most people around. It’s a human rights thing, Happy D. Whether oyu agree with me on politics or not, you know that thousands of people are dying and hundreds of thousands live like they’re in an open air prison.

        1. HOW CAN ANYTHING BE “Palestinian Territory” aside from lands we gave them in Oslo???? They never had sovereignty over it. Are you referring to privately owned land???

        2. 2. The blockade of Gaza is legal. There are many landlocked state like entities.

        3. East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel to full Israeli law. It was not under recognized permanent sovereignty of any state since the Ottoman Empire. Arabs there have full rights.

        4. Zionism is a modern way of describing the national liberation attempts of the Jewish PEOPLE. It is an inseparable part of our religion and always has been. Try reading our books from before ‘Zionism’.

        5. 99.99999999999999999999% of people against Zionism, Jews included, are against the Jewish people. Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people. Zionism didn’t do any harm. If the British had fulfilled their obligations under international law, or if the Muslims hadn’t prevented mass Jewish settlement prior and aided the Nazis, then no one would’ve had to leave their homes. There were far, far more Jews in the world that wanted to move home than there were Palestinian Arabs in existence. You would’ve had a state with a 90-95% Jewish majority and NO refugees.

        6. The two did not coexist. The Muslims massacred and ethnically cleansed the Jews in Hebron, Gaza and elsewhere. Even before the British there were still Jews in what became (for 30 years) ‘Palestine’. Their number fluctuated considerably due to conditions, taxes, massacres and laws enacted against them by Muslims.

        7. Gaza got a little bit poorer but few people are dying from the conflict. There is no crisis there.

          The West Bank is really rather pleasant. Have you been there lately? To PA territory? I have. What about Sudan? Been to Darfur lately? No? Well no problem. Just keep taking the focus of the genocide there by aiding those who spread lies about Israel.

    3. Thank you Kareem for your response. I see that you got my point.

  12. kareemthehippy Avatar
    kareemthehippy

    the problem is really that Israel hides its atrocities. It’s kinda like the Apartheid issue in South Africa, except that all the hidden shit is lasting for a longer period of time.

    War? No. because it’ll definitely expand. Honestly, we need movements that will rise to expose the Israeli atrocities and want justice for the Palestinians THAT ARE NOT MILITANTS . Anarchist movements in the Middle East and left wing movements in the US are like that.

    Boycot, divest or BDS (Boycot divestment sanctions) will make a HUGE impact…and when people who vow themselves to Hezbollah see that there are no violent methods to expose the atrocities of Israel, they will take those methods, apart from the view that are generally racist against Jews in general because they’re stupid.

    Allowing this will lower support for Hezbollah, and will hopefully develop progress in ending the many violations of Israel.

    The idea is to keep Lebanon out of this in terms of being involved in war. It’s important that we show our support for Palestinians and that we boycott and expose the human rights violations in Israel and the international law violations…

    For the betterment of Lebanon, we can still show our support for Palestine and our disapproval with Israel’s actions without putting our lives at risk and exposing our country to Israel’s army.

    (SORRY FOR THE UNORGANIZED POST)

    1. Yeah, Palestine isn’t a country yet. It never has been. Despite all of the fighting in Lebanon against being used, I see that you lost and are manipulated and used as a tool to destroy Israel. Such a shame. Which Israeli atrocities? Only Israeli ones or also Arab/Palestinian ones? Jewish lives don’t matter right?

  13.  Avatar

    War? Maybe..but last time we had a war, people just died and the same jackasses stayed. We just need to expose the atrocities and have the majority of the population not be politically oriented to anything but human rights, justice and corruption.

    I respect any of your political views, whether you support any political party in Lebanon or not, but I think it’s full of shit and every single politician in Lebanon apart from a very select minority who barely get any votes have blood on their hands…and we need to put them to justice and have leaders in Lebanon who lead for the benefit of Lebanon and not their foreign puppet-masters.

    Unfortunately this will never happen, and I probably will never have the chance to live in Lebanon again.

    1. Aren’t you supposed to be readying for midterms or something? 😛

      1.  Avatar

        Finished them last week with straight A’s. What do you take me for? 😛

        1. Proud of you Kareem… I am also extremely happy about your activities regarding Palestine on Campus… Also, I didn’t forget you brother… But the guys tell me your schedule did not overlap well this time around. Will you forward me another for next semester at your convenience?
          BTW your hair had nothing to do with it… lol

          1.  Avatar

            I’m so confused right now.

    2. Yeah, Palestine isn’t a country yet. It never has been. Despite all of the fighting in Lebanon against being used, I see that you lost and are manipulated and used as a tool to destroy Israel. Such a shame. Which Israeli atrocities? Only Israeli ones or also Arab/Palestinian ones? Jewish lives don’t matter right?

      1.  Avatar

        Which Israel atrocities? Shall we begin with, Happy D? Okay. The wall that divides the West Bank and Israel on West Bank’s territory (a la apartheid wall), house evictions in the West Bank are ILLEGAL, yet they are happening and settlers are being protecting by the Israeli army. Israel imposing curfews and checkpoints in East Jerusalem. The maritime blockade in Gaza, as well as the border blockade.

        We don’t support Hamas, and I don’t deny that Hamas have done some horrible things, but comparing a resistance/terrorist group to a strong military really lowers your standards for a country you sympathize with or support, am I right?

        Of course Jewish lives don’t matter; you’re just playing the anti-semetism card again! Most members of the club I’m in are Jews, including the president himself, and I’m the only Arab in it, so don’t play that crap with me.

        Zionism is a political ideology, and Judaism is a religion. My roommate is a Jew, I had a crush on a Jewish girl, and I have nothing against people of a certain ethnic group or religion. It’s a simple political ideology which is harming the lives of many.

        What’s in a name? People came to a territory where people lived, and forced them to leave or live under their rule against their will. This is complete crap and inhumane! Before the state of Israel, Jewish people emigrated to Palestine under British rule and the two co-existed…it was until there were things like the bombing of the King David hotel, by Zionists mind you, that led to England leaving and the UN declaring the State of Israel.

        Lost and manipulated and used as a tool! Clearly if you got to know me I have more substance than most people around. It’s a human rights thing, Happy D. Whether oyu agree with me on politics or not, you know that thousands of people are dying and hundreds of thousands live like they’re in an open air prison.

        1. HOW CAN ANYTHING BE “Palestinian Territory” aside from lands we gave them in Oslo???? They never had sovereignty over it. Are you referring to privately owned land???

        2. 2. The blockade of Gaza is legal. There are many landlocked state like entities.

        3. East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel to full Israeli law. It was not under recognized permanent sovereignty of any state since the Ottoman Empire. Arabs there have full rights.

        4. Zionism is a modern way of describing the national liberation attempts of the Jewish PEOPLE. It is an inseparable part of our religion and always has been. Try reading our books from before ‘Zionism’.

        5. 99.99999999999999999999% of people against Zionism, Jews included, are against the Jewish people. Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people. Zionism didn’t do any harm. If the British had fulfilled their obligations under international law, or if the Muslims hadn’t prevented mass Jewish settlement prior and aided the Nazis, then no one would’ve had to leave their homes. There were far, far more Jews in the world that wanted to move home than there were Palestinian Arabs in existence. You would’ve had a state with a 90-95% Jewish majority and NO refugees.

        6. The two did not coexist. The Muslims massacred and ethnically cleansed the Jews in Hebron, Gaza and elsewhere. Even before the British there were still Jews in what became (for 30 years) ‘Palestine’. Their number fluctuated considerably due to conditions, taxes, massacres and laws enacted against them by Muslims.

        7. Gaza got a little bit poorer but few people are dying from the conflict. There is no crisis there.

          The West Bank is really rather pleasant. Have you been there lately? To PA territory? I have. What about Sudan? Been to Darfur lately? No? Well no problem. Just keep taking the focus of the genocide there by aiding those who spread lies about Israel.

    3.  Avatar

      Thank you Kareem for your response. I see that you got my point.

  14. The smartest path that Lebanon, as a whole and united nation, can take is to: (1) accept Israel’s right to exist, (2) make peace with its neighbor; (3) engage the Israeli people in business and trade; (4) and take advantage of what you can offer each other (ie: technology, tourism, etc). You’ll be surprised how much in common you have.

    If Lebanon is such a great country and its people so smart (which has been the case for the past 2,000 years or more, and its people still demonstrate the same “outside” Lebanon), then why can’t the Lebanese people in Lebanon do the correct and logical thing now? I guess that would depend on who is providing the guns to whom, and I guess which direction is Lebanon is looking at. East? or West when it has consistently made unprecedented achievements. Just go back 2,000 years and trace the Lebanese currency and study what was going on, and what the Lebanese people were up to at the time.

    If Lebanese people are such hospitable people, then who is stringing them along to commit such shameful and bloody murder? Not war? At least in a war you would have a legitimate enemy. Who are the Lebanese people killing inside Lebanon and taking arms to kill Jews in Israel for whose interest?

    Lebanon has no business to take on the Palestinian/Israeli issue with arms and their own blood because it can not afford to do so and does not have the standing. It can no longer be your problem, and, if it is, find a way to divert the attention from you because enough is enough and let other Nations who are not afraid to lose their own blood deal with that problem. You tried and lost a lot of blood and valuable human resources, and I am not just talking about those who died. Consider those who left the Country and made great achievements outside Lebanon for non Lebanese interests. You can support and should do so by other means. You should also not allow the Palestinians to arm themselves inside Lebanon. If the Palestinians can, then why shouldn’t Hezeb Allah? This is and has been a recipe for disaster.

    Before the Arab/Muslim world seeks justice for the Palestinians, may be they should have, at least on its face, shown the same resolve against the Turkish butchers for the genocide they committed against the Armenians. This does not diminish one bit the generosity and compassion the Arab/Muslim world demonstrated and provided to my grandparents which I am extremely grateful of, and will be, for the rest of my life. However, we are talking about genocide!

    In my humble opinion, the Arabs missed the opportunity to make a righteous campaign against Israeli aggression when they did not openly, forcefully, vehemently and with the same conviction they use today to support the Palestinians, attack the Turks for what they did to the Armenians. In the same token, Hitler said “who remembers the Armenians”.

    Why should we, so called civilized societies, condemn Ahmadinijad, for not acknowledging Hitler’s genocide of the Jews in Europe while, similarly, the U.S. government does not do so either when it comes to Turkey. Oh, national security reasons. I see, O.K. got it. So, the U.S. and its other allies do not punish Turkey for killing 1.5 million Armenians. Hitler says “who remembers the Armenians” and kills millions of Jews. Now we are saying that Israel is committing the same against Palestinians which I am not sure if we can regard it as the same without taking away the Palestinian suffering. If I lost you, my point is “it is a vicious cycle”. So, when it comes to genocide and/or other heinous crimes against civilization don’t pick and choose who you are going to “go all out for” and defend. It should not matter whether you are an Arab or Muslim and the perpetrators are your kind or the other way around.

    Lastly, shame on the previous Lebanese leaders and rulers for not providing support and building infrastructure for the Sheaa Muslims in Lebanon. Similarly, shame on the Sheaas for not “truly understanding Lebanese values” and not attempting to integrate into main stream Lebanese society and life style without fearing to loose its own identity. Lets say, like the Armenians do!

    In short, what did you gain? Let’s see?

    If you are against U.S. policies in the Middle East, you call the U.S. the devils, etc. (though they are not all bad and not all good. Even in the U.S. both parties hate each other and do not get along. Just watch and listen to the ads in the recent months for the mid-term elections. You would think there is 2,000 years of bloodshed between them) and you blame Israel for your problems that you have created yourself. So, Iran reaches out to you and promises to give you what your own government failed to provide you in return for what? Oh, Iran’s agenda to get rid of Israel with your blood and lost
    opportunities. If you really think that the U.S. is so bad that you prefer Iranian Agenda instead, then why do you go to the U.S. in pursuit for better life, family, education, peace, etc. Go to Iran and see what they have to offer.

    Just a thought.

    Vincent Vahe Frounjian

  15. The smartest path that Lebanon, as a whole and united nation, can take is to: (1) accept Israel’s right to exist, (2) make peace with its neighbor; (3) engage the Israeli people in business and trade; (4) and take advantage of what you can offer each other (ie: technology, tourism, etc). You’ll be surprised how much in common you have.

    If Lebanon is such a great country and its people so smart (which has been the case for the past 2,000 years or more, and its people still demonstrate the same “outside” Lebanon), then why can’t the Lebanese people in Lebanon do the correct and logical thing now? I guess that would depend on who is providing the guns to whom, and I guess which direction is Lebanon is looking at. East? or West when it has consistently made unprecedented achievements. Just go back 2,000 years and trace the Lebanese currency and study what was going on, and what the Lebanese people were up to at the time.

    If Lebanese people are such hospitable people, then who is stringing them along to commit such shameful and bloody murder? Not war? At least in a war you would have a legitimate enemy. Who are the Lebanese people killing inside Lebanon and taking arms to kill Jews in Israel for whose interest?

    Lebanon has no business to take on the Palestinian/Israeli issue with arms and their own blood because it can not afford to do so and does not have the standing. It can no longer be your problem, and, if it is, find a way to divert the attention from you because enough is enough and let other Nations who are not afraid to lose their own blood deal with that problem. You tried and lost a lot of blood and valuable human resources, and I am not just talking about those who died. Consider those who left the Country and made great achievements outside Lebanon for non Lebanese interests. You can support and should do so by other means. You should also not allow the Palestinians to arm themselves inside Lebanon. If the Palestinians can, then why shouldn’t Hezeb Allah? This is and has been a recipe for disaster.

    Before the Arab/Muslim world seeks justice for the Palestinians, may be they should have, at least on its face, shown the same resolve against the Turkish butchers for the genocide they committed against the Armenians. This does not diminish one bit the generosity and compassion the Arab/Muslim world demonstrated and provided to my grandparents which I am extremely grateful of, and will be, for the rest of my life. However, we are talking about genocide!

    In my humble opinion, the Arabs missed the opportunity to make a righteous campaign against Israeli aggression when they did not openly, forcefully, vehemently and with the same conviction they use today to support the Palestinians, attack the Turks for what they did to the Armenians. In the same token, Hitler said “who remembers the Armenians”.

    Why should we, so called civilized societies, condemn Ahmadinijad, for not acknowledging Hitler’s genocide of the Jews in Europe while, similarly, the U.S. government does not do so either when it comes to Turkey. Oh, national security reasons. I see, O.K. got it. So, the U.S. and its other allies do not punish Turkey for killing 1.5 million Armenians. Hitler says “who remembers the Armenians” and kills millions of Jews. Now we are saying that Israel is committing the same against Palestinians which I am not sure if we can regard it as the same without taking away the Palestinian suffering. If I lost you, my point is “it is a vicious cycle”. So, when it comes to genocide and/or other heinous crimes against civilization don’t pick and choose who you are going to “go all out for” and defend. It should not matter whether you are an Arab or Muslim and the perpetrators are your kind or the other way around.

    Lastly, shame on the previous Lebanese leaders and rulers for not providing support and building infrastructure for the Sheaa Muslims in Lebanon. Similarly, shame on the Sheaas for not “truly understanding Lebanese values” and not attempting to integrate into main stream Lebanese society and life style without fearing to loose its own identity. Lets say, like the Armenians do!

    In short, what did you gain? Let’s see?

    If you are against U.S. policies in the Middle East, you call the U.S. the devils, etc. (though they are not all bad and not all good. Even in the U.S. both parties hate each other and do not get along. Just watch and listen to the ads in the recent months for the mid-term elections. You would think there is 2,000 years of bloodshed between them) and you blame Israel for your problems that you have created yourself. So, Iran reaches out to you and promises to give you what your own government failed to provide you in return for what? Oh, Iran’s agenda to get rid of Israel with your blood and lost
    opportunities. If you really think that the U.S. is so bad that you prefer Iranian Agenda instead, then why do you go to the U.S. in pursuit for better life, family, education, peace, etc. Go to Iran and see what they have to offer.

    Just a thought.

    Vincent Vahe Frounjian

  16.  Avatar

    The smartest path that Lebanon, as a whole and united nation, can take is to: (1) accept Israel’s right to exist, (2) make peace with its neighbor; (3) engage the Israeli people in business and trade; (4) and take advantage of what you can offer each other (ie: technology, tourism, etc). You’ll be surprised how much in common you have.

    If Lebanon is such a great country and its people so smart (which has been the case for the past 2,000 years or more, and its people still demonstrate the same “outside” Lebanon), then why can’t the Lebanese people in Lebanon do the correct and logical thing now? I guess that would depend on who is providing the guns to whom, and I guess which direction is Lebanon is looking at. East? or West when it has consistently made unprecedented achievements. Just go back 2,000 years and trace the Lebanese currency and study what was going on, and what the Lebanese people were up to at the time.

    If Lebanese people are such hospitable people, then who is stringing them along to commit such shameful and bloody murder? Not war? At least in a war you would have a legitimate enemy. Who are the Lebanese people killing inside Lebanon and taking arms to kill Jews in Israel for whose interest?

    Lebanon has no business to take on the Palestinian/Israeli issue with arms and their own blood because it can not afford to do so and does not have the standing. It can no longer be your problem, and, if it is, find a way to divert the attention from you because enough is enough and let other Nations who are not afraid to lose their own blood deal with that problem. You tried and lost a lot of blood and valuable human resources, and I am not just talking about those who died. Consider those who left the Country and made great achievements outside Lebanon for non Lebanese interests. You can support and should do so by other means. You should also not allow the Palestinians to arm themselves inside Lebanon. If the Palestinians can, then why shouldn’t Hezeb Allah? This is and has been a recipe for disaster.

    Before the Arab/Muslim world seeks justice for the Palestinians, may be they should have, at least on its face, shown the same resolve against the Turkish butchers for the genocide they committed against the Armenians. This does not diminish one bit the generosity and compassion the Arab/Muslim world demonstrated and provided to my grandparents which I am extremely grateful of, and will be, for the rest of my life. However, we are talking about genocide!

    In my humble opinion, the Arabs missed the opportunity to make a righteous campaign against Israeli aggression when they did not openly, forcefully, vehemently and with the same conviction they use today to support the Palestinians, attack the Turks for what they did to the Armenians. In the same token, Hitler said “who remembers the Armenians”.

    Why should we, so called civilized societies, condemn Ahmadinijad, for not acknowledging Hitler’s genocide of the Jews in Europe while, similarly, the U.S. government does not do so either when it comes to Turkey. Oh, national security reasons. I see, O.K. got it. So, the U.S. and its other allies do not punish Turkey for killing 1.5 million Armenians. Hitler says “who remembers the Armenians” and kills millions of Jews. Now we are saying that Israel is committing the same against Palestinians which I am not sure if we can regard it as the same without taking away the Palestinian suffering. If I lost you, my point is “it is a vicious cycle”. So, when it comes to genocide and/or other heinous crimes against civilization don’t pick and choose who you are going to “go all out for” and defend. It should not matter whether you are an Arab or Muslim and the perpetrators are your kind or the other way around.

    Lastly, shame on the previous Lebanese leaders and rulers for not providing support and building infrastructure for the Sheaa Muslims in Lebanon. Similarly, shame on the Sheaas for not “truly understanding Lebanese values” and not attempting to integrate into main stream Lebanese society and life style without fearing to loose its own identity. Lets say, like the Armenians do!

    In short, what did you gain? Let’s see?

    If you are against U.S. policies in the Middle East, you call the U.S. the devils, etc. (though they are not all bad and not all good. Even in the U.S. both parties hate each other and do not get along. Just watch and listen to the ads in the recent months for the mid-term elections. You would think there is 2,000 years of bloodshed between them) and you blame Israel for your problems that you have created yourself. So, Iran reaches out to you and promises to give you what your own government failed to provide you in return for what? Oh, Iran’s agenda to get rid of Israel with your blood and lost
    opportunities. If you really think that the U.S. is so bad that you prefer Iranian Agenda instead, then why do you go to the U.S. in pursuit for better life, family, education, peace, etc. Go to Iran and see what they have to offer.

    Just a thought.

    Vincent Vahe Frounjian

  17. Dear ‘kareemthehippy’,

    I have never and would never claim that my country is perfect or blameless, I simply do not like it when people spout excrement about my country for lies and clouding of the truth make it very difficult to arrive at conclusions that may better any given situation. I am, however, well within my rights to express my opinions on this forum just as any person is, but particularly as a fellow Semite, a concerned neighbour and a human being with an interest in Lebanese and Israeli events.

    Fondest Regards,
    Happy D

  18. To Hannibal. ASHKENAZI JEWS ARE 50 – 80% LEVANTINE ACCORDING TO ALL DNA TESTS. I AM GROSSLY OFFENDED BY YOUR COMMENTS AND THE INSISTENCE OF ARABIC SPEAKERS TO SHUN ASHKENAZIM AS FELLOW MIDDLE EASTERNERS IS GROTESQUELY DISGUSTING.

    1. Hannibal Avatar

      I got Happy D to be non-happy after all. It is a fact that the Jews were persecuted throughout the centuries by Christians, Europeans, Nazis, and Islamist to name a few, and that countries officially sanctioned killing of Jews in various places at various times. However, it was only in the 20th century that we see a large stream of Jewish people into Palestine, due mostly to persecution in Eastern Europe followed by the Holocaust, and some maltreatment in the Arab world (which I witnessed in Lebanon as a kid where they were not allowed to join the army for instance because one Lebanese Jew officer was caught spying for Israel). That being said we all know that in the 1900 Europe had 80% of the total Jewish population and that Palestine contained only 0.6% of the total. The Jews were persecuted by the Europeans mainly and lately by the German Nazis and it is beyond me why you persecute the native Palestinians by usurping their land and kicking them out of their homes. Then you say that you do not want them to return home because that will destroy your invented country. So if no Levantine country wants them what should we do with them? kill them all? It is your belief system that you are the chosen people and that you are superior to others which is grotesquely disgusting. Those mythical books of yours which Judaism and then Christianity and then Islam were built upon are the root of all evil and all conflict.

    2. Hannibal Avatar

      Palestine was less than 1% Jews. 80% of Jews resided in Europe prior to 1900s. Isreal’s existence displaced people. What do you suggest we do with them? If nobody wants them are you suggesting we kill them all? Two states sovereign side by side or one state and it won’t be Israel. Simple demographics…

    3. LebanesePatriot Avatar
      LebanesePatriot

      The Genetic Lineage study is falsified. 90% don’t even have the cohen gene and they still don’t know if Abraham was a J1 or J2. They also look at the Y chromosones and declare that you are from jewish lineage if you have as little as 5% from the mother’s side. These genetic labs are also owned by Zionist jews who are trying to justify their presence in the middle east so I wouldn’t be surprised.

      Judiasm’s past is in Iraq and Iran where it got it’s ideas from Zoroastrianism and astrotheology.

  19. To Hannibal. ASHKENAZI JEWS ARE 50 – 80% LEVANTINE ACCORDING TO ALL DNA TESTS. I AM GROSSLY OFFENDED BY YOUR COMMENTS AND THE INSISTENCE OF ARABIC SPEAKERS TO SHUN ASHKENAZIM AS FELLOW MIDDLE EASTERNERS IS GROTESQUELY DISGUSTING.

  20. To Hannibal. ASHKENAZI JEWS ARE 50 – 80% LEVANTINE ACCORDING TO ALL DNA TESTS. I AM GROSSLY OFFENDED BY YOUR COMMENTS AND THE INSISTENCE OF ARABIC SPEAKERS TO SHUN ASHKENAZIM AS FELLOW MIDDLE EASTERNERS IS GROTESQUELY DISGUSTING.

    1. Palestine was less than 1% Jews. 80% of Jews resided in Europe prior to 1900s. Isreal’s existence displaced people. What do you suggest we do with them? If nobody wants them are you suggesting we kill them all? Two states sovereign side by side or one state and it won’t be Israel. Simple demographics…

    2.  Avatar

      The Genetic Lineage study is falsified. 90% don’t even have the cohen gene and they still don’t know if Abraham was a J1 or J2. They also look at the Y chromosones and declare that you are from jewish lineage if you have as little as 5% from the mother’s side. These genetic labs are also owned by Zionist jews who are trying to justify their presence in the middle east so I wouldn’t be surprised.

      Judiasm’s past is in Iraq and Iran where it got it’s ideas from Zoroastrianism and astrotheology.

  21. To Hannibal,
    Oh dear, so you’d like to go there would you?
    It makes no difference what % of the world’s Jews lived there. First of all, for the 30 or so years that it existed as an entity (since the first 22 years of Arab rule when it was last a province), Jews were a higher % of the local population than they were in any other polity on the planet. Aside from that, the Jews of Europe grew larger than the others due to a large population boom and excessive inbreeding. They decend from a small group of middle eastern families. Up until 400 years ago, the Jews of Europe were still a minority of the world’s Jews.

  22. Essentially, whatever accusations you level against Israel, the fact remains that while around 20 – 40% of Lebanese desperately want a peace deal with Israel, the other 60 – 80% want to destroy Israel.

  23. LebanesePatriot Avatar
    LebanesePatriot

    This article is no more than the opinions of a misinformed individual with all due respect.

    Reminds me of the “men” in history who would accept defeat and open their country’s legs to foreign occupiers. The same men who live crawling on their knees and say they want to live while looking down to the ground in every step they take. The culture of defeat and subjugation which is 100 times more humiliating than death itself. A bleak future indeed.

    Egypt and Jordan are held as examples of doing peace with Israel!?

    Many in Egypt actually believe they are sub-human and inferior and for what? A lousy 2 billion dollars a year in foreign aid.

    Jordan is a slave state of Israel that holds the biggest CIA base in the Middle East.

    Israel has committed more atrocities towards Lebanon than they did to any other country in the world and yet you call for making peace with those who seek nothing other than your destruction.

    You try to portray those who hold Lebanon’s self respect in its high ground as agents serving foreign interests.

    Israel does not make its decesions in regards to making peace or war.

    As I have said before, they recieve orders from no other than those who give them 3 billion dollars a year in foreign aid and therefore they are indebted to their demands.

  24.  Avatar

    This article is no more than the opinions of a misinformed individual with all due respect.

    Reminds me of the “men” in history who would accept defeat and open their country’s legs to foreign occupiers. The same men who live crawling on their knees and say they want to live while looking down to the ground in every step they take. The culture of defeat and subjugation which is 100 times more humiliating than death itself. A bleak future indeed.

    Egypt and Jordan are held as examples of doing peace with Israel!?

    Many in Egypt actually believe they are sub-human and inferior and for what? A lousy 2 billion dollars a year in foreign aid.

    Jordan is a slave state of Israel that holds the biggest CIA base in the Middle East.

    Israel has committed more atrocities towards Lebanon than they did to any other country in the world and yet you call for making peace with those who seek nothing other than your destruction.

    You try to portray those who hold Lebanon’s self respect in its high ground as agents serving foreign interests.

    Israel does not make its decesions in regards to making peace or war.

    As I have said before, they recieve orders from no other than those who give them 3 billion dollars a year in foreign aid and therefore they are indebted to their demands.

Leave a Reply to Anonymous Cancel reply