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Saudi activist sentenced to 300 lashes and 4 years in jail

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Omar al Saeed
A Saudi judge sentenced a political activist to 300 lashes and 4 years in prison for calling for a constitutional monarchy in Saudi Arabia, his rights group said on Sunday.

Omar al-Saeed is the fourth member of the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association (ACPRA) to be jailed this year after the group issued statements attacking the ruling family over its human rights record and calling for democracy.

Saeed did not have legal representation at the secret hearing when he was sentenced, ACPRA said in a statement on its website.

“It’s just another troubling instance of Saudi authorities’ absolute refusal to countenance any activism or criticism of Saudi policies or human rights abuses,” said Adam Coogle, Middle East researcher at Human Rights Watch.

A spokesman for the Justice Ministry said he could not comment on the report or confirm its accuracy.

U.S.-allied Saudi Arabia is ruled by the al-Saud family together with powerful clerics from the country’s ultra-conservative Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam.

King Abdullah is the prime minister and he appoints the government, which includes top princes in the roles of foreign, interior, defense and intelligence ministers. Most senior princes also have extensive business interests.

Saudi Arabia’s only elections are for half the seats on relatively powerless town councils. Licensed media exercises stringent self censorship, public expressions of dissent are often not tolerated and demonstrations are banned.

During the Arab Spring in early 2011, protests were restricted to the Shi’ite minority in the Qatif district of Eastern Province.

Unrest among the Sunni majority was avoided after King Abdullah pledged $110 billion in spending on social benefits and top clerics and tribal leaders said people should back the ruling family.

Foreign analysts say there appears to be little public demand for big political changes in Saudi Arabia now, although they point to evidence on social media of growing frustration at corruption, poverty and poor state services.

The government has denied charges by international rights groups that it used a campaign against Islamist militants over the past decade to stifle dissent.

However, human rights lawyers inside the country have said some of those sentenced in security courts, including a group jailed in Jeddah in late 2011, were peaceful activists put on trial for demanding political change.

Reuters

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32 responses to “Saudi activist sentenced to 300 lashes and 4 years in jail”

  1. Reasonableman Avatar
    Reasonableman

    It’s just another troubling instance of Saudi authorities’ absolute refusal to countenance any activism or criticism of Saudi policies or human rights abuses,” said Adam Coogle, Middle East researcher at Human Rights Watch.

    Not that i support a side but each country is varies on human rights depending on how evolved an environment can be to how evolved the population may also be.
    Human rights abuses according to who by the way?
    Does nature vs nurture only apply as a defence?
    If anybody tries to destabilise a government or even just the social mesh with no accord or proof of injustice should be challenged to fair trial. Just because your an activist doesn’t make me feel any less or more sorry look at the situation accross the entire region lets take it a step at a time before having to re write a whole new constitutiion which will take a decade and a decade more worth of injustice.

    1. Btru2u Avatar
      Btru2u

      Ya Akhi, the constitution is the quran and sunnah, something the ruling family is not fully adhering to.
      They ruling family has to be held accountable for their failure to deliver a just society in accordance with the Quran and Sunna. True genuine leaders of Islam will work towards unity of the umma, without regard for their position. True leaders of Islam will work only for the pleasure of Allah .

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        The pleasure of Allah? The guy with the most gold doesn’t work at all. But who ‘makes’ the King after all? Humans. In this case, a huge pile of cute little princes – who also don’t need to work. I guess it was Allah’s pleasure to take Western money for the oil. 😉
        This guy must be one of the poor ‘country cousins’ who didn’t get enough to stud his Lambourgini with diamonds,
        Ah Well, ‘The Family’ simply got too big for it’s britches. :-)))
        Methods of ‘Corporal Punishment’ are debated everywhere … parents always say: ‘If you’re going to live on my sand, you better follow the tenting rules’.
        Called ‘taking the boy down a notch or two’ … four years are needed after 300 lashes to recover, assuming he lives through it.
        We also assume some Saudis don’t swim in public places … although the family album is probably filled with interesting physiognomies … tattoos of another kind.

      2. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Akhi wallahi i understand your point of view the saudi monarchy do need to be challenged unfortunately omar the activist is asking the wrong questions, well atleast a few wrong questions.
        This is something for the shura to decide and weight the cons and the pros without interference of outside opinion

      3. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        to this day there is still a group of people who refuse to budge from the view that democracy is not a religion but a vehicle for heading towards a civil society or heading towards a society with the Shari’ah of Islam. So is it true that democracy is a religion? Let us prove with the daleels from the Qur’an and Sunnah.In the daleels of the Qura’an and Sunnah, or the books of the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah, yes, the word democracy has never been mentioned explicitly because at the time of the messenger of Allah (Sallallahu ‘elayhi Wasalam) or in the old days, this word had never been known or was still foreign, but this does not fool us and make us fall into the trap.In understanding democracy, we should go back to the fundamental subject of one’s Islam, namely iman. Iman is a pledge that makes a person being called Muslim and that makes him different from the people who disbelieve (kafir) although they are practising good deeds in the eyes of the world, without iman all those do not mean anything. And the basis of one’s faith (iman) is like what Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Qur’an:وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ{“And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”} [Quran 51: 56]وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولًا أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُوا الطَّاغُوتَ{“And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], ‘Worship Allah and avoid Thaghut.”} [Quran 16: 36]قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا{“The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it.”}[Quran 2 : 256]وَالَّذِينَ اجْتَنَبُوا الطَّاغُوتَ أَن يَعْبُدُوهَا وَأَنَابُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ لَهُمُ الْبُشْرَىٰ ۚ فَبَشِّرْ عِبَادِ{“But those who have avoided Taghut, lest they worship it, and turned back to Allah – for them are good tidings. So give good tidings to My servants.”} [Quran 39: 17]The above verses are the commands of Allah to mankind after they have iman, to keep away from all kinds of obedience and submission to others besides Allah Ta’ala which in the Qur’an is called Taghut. So one’s iman is not valid before they deny (to be kafir toward) and be free of all the millah, manhaj and ‘aqeedah of others besides Islam.

        1. Reasonableman Avatar
          Reasonableman

          Included in the category of taghut is every one who positions himself as a musharri’ (legislation and law maker) along with Allah, whether he is a leader or a common citizen, a people’s representatives in the legislature or the people whom he represents from among those who elected him (in the general elections), because with that deed, he has exceeded the limit which Allah Ta’ala created for him, because he is created as a slave of Allah, and his Lord orders him to surrender submissively to His Shari’ah, but he is reluctant, and he becomes arrogant instead and oversteps the limits which Allah Ta’ala has set, he on the other hand wants to make himself as a match for Allah and affiliate with Him in the authority of tashri’ (establishment of law and legislation), whereas it should not be turned to any other except to Allah Ta’ala and for anyone who does that, then he has made himself as Ilaah musharri’ (God the lawmaker), while it cannot be doubted anymore that for such a person, he is a part of the Ru’oos at-Tawaghit (Frontmen of taghut) where one’s Tawheed and Islam is not valid until he is kafir towards that taghut, avoiding it, as well as bara’a (being free) from its worshippers and troops.

          1. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Allah Ta’ala says:يُرِيدُونَ أَن يَتَحَاكَمُوا إِلَى الطَّاغُوتِ وَقَدْ أُمِرُوا أَن يَكْفُرُوا بِهِ{“They wish to refer legislation to Thaghut, while they were commanded to reject that Thaghut.”} [Quran 4: 60]Imam Mujahid (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “Taghut is devil in human form, where the humans refer the laws to him, while he is taking control of them.”Sheikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “On that account, one who rules by other than the Book of Allah where he becomes the legal reference, he is called taghut.”Imam Ibnul Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “Taghut is anything in which the limit is exceeded by the slaves, be it the one worshipped, or followed, or obeyed, that the taghut of every society is the people whom they make as legal reference other than Allah and His Messenger, or which they worship besides Allah, or that which they followed without any foundation of dalils from Allah, or the people whom they obeyed in matters which they do not know that it is a form of obedience to Allah”.And he said further: “Anyone who refers the law or reports lawsuits to others in addition to what has been brought about by Muhammad (Sallallahu ‘elayhi Wasalam), then it means that he had been referring the law and reporting lawsuits to the taghut.”And among the types of taghut worshipped besides Allah Ta’ala today, and which becomes the obligation of every Muwahid to be kafir towards them and be free from them, as well as from their followers so he can hold on to ‘al-’Urwat al-Wuthqa’ (the most trustworthy handhold Surat Luqman : 22) and be safe the fires of hell, are the false gods which have been made by many people as allies who make the laws and legislation besides Allah Ta’ala.أَمْ لَهُمْ شُرَكَاءُ شَرَعُوا لَهُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا لَمْ يَأْذَن بِهِ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْلَا كَلِمَةُ الْفَصْلِ لَقُضِيَ بَيْنَهُمْ{“Or have they other deities who have ordained for them a religion to which Allah has not consented? But if not for the decisive word, it would have been concluded between them.”}[Quran 42: 21]

  2. Reasonableman Avatar
    Reasonableman

    It’s just another troubling instance of Saudi authorities’ absolute refusal to countenance any activism or criticism of Saudi policies or human rights abuses,” said Adam Coogle, Middle East researcher at Human Rights Watch.

    Not that i support a side but each country is varies on human rights depending on how evolved an environment can be to how evolved the population may also be.
    Human rights abuses according to who by the way? If anybody tries to destabilise a government or just the social mesh with no accord or proof of injustice should be challenged to fair trial. Just because your an activist doesn’t make me feel any less or more sorry look at the situation accross the entire region lets take it a step at a time before having to re write a whole new constitutiion which will take a decade and a decade more worth of injustice.

    1. Btru2u Avatar
      Btru2u

      Ya Akhi, the constitution is the quran and sunnah, something the ruling family is not fully adhering to.
      They ruling family has to be held accountable for their failure to deliver a just society in accordance with the Quran and Sunna. True genuine leaders of Islam will work towards unity of the umma, without regard for their position. True leaders of Islam will work only for the pleasure of Allah .

      1. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        The pleasure of Allah? The guy with the most gold doesn’t work at all. But who ‘makes’ the King after all? Humans. In this case, a huge pile of cute little princes – who also don’t need to work. I guess it was Allah’s pleasure to take Western money for the oil. 😉
        Ah Well, ‘The Family’ simply got too big for it’s britches. :-)))
        Methods of ‘Corporal Punishment’ are debated everywhere … parents always say: ‘If you’re going to live on my sand, you better follow the tenting rules’.
        Called ‘taking the boy down a notch or two’ … four years are needed after 300 lashes to recover, assuming he lives through it.
        We also assume some Saudis don’t swim in public places … although the family album is probably filled with interesting physiognomies … tattoos of another kind.

      2. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Akhi wallahi i understand your point of view the saudi monarchy do need to be challenged unfortunately omar the activist is asking the wrong questions, well atleast a few wrong questions.
        This is something for the shura to decide and weight the cons and the pros without interference of outside opinion

      3. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        to this day there is still a group of people who refuse to budge from the view that democracy is not a religion but a vehicle for heading towards a civil society or heading towards a society with the Shari’ah of Islam. So is it true that democracy is a religion? Let us prove with the daleels from the Qur’an and Sunnah.In the daleels of the Qura’an and Sunnah, or the books of the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah, yes, the word democracy has never been mentioned explicitly because at the time of the messenger of Allah (Sallallahu ‘elayhi Wasalam) or in the old days, this word had never been known or was still foreign, but this does not fool us and make us fall into the trap.In understanding democracy, we should go back to the fundamental subject of one’s Islam, namely iman. Iman is a pledge that makes a person being called Muslim and that makes him different from the people who disbelieve (kafir) although they are practising good deeds in the eyes of the world, without iman all those do not mean anything. And the basis of one’s faith (iman) is like what Allah Ta’ala says in the Holy Qur’an:وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ{“And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.”} [Quran 51: 56]وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولًا أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُوا الطَّاغُوتَ{“And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], ‘Worship Allah and avoid Thaghut.”} [Quran 16: 36]قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا{“The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it.”}[Quran 2 : 256]وَالَّذِينَ اجْتَنَبُوا الطَّاغُوتَ أَن يَعْبُدُوهَا وَأَنَابُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ لَهُمُ الْبُشْرَىٰ ۚ فَبَشِّرْ عِبَادِ{“But those who have avoided Taghut, lest they worship it, and turned back to Allah – for them are good tidings. So give good tidings to My servants.”} [Quran 39: 17]The above verses are the commands of Allah to mankind after they have iman, to keep away from all kinds of obedience and submission to others besides Allah Ta’ala which in the Qur’an is called Taghut. So one’s iman is not valid before they deny (to be kafir toward) and be free of all the millah, manhaj and ‘aqeedah of others besides Islam.

        1. Reasonableman Avatar
          Reasonableman

          Included in the category of taghut is every one who positions himself as a musharri’ (legislation and law maker) along with Allah, whether he is a leader or a common citizen, a people’s representatives in the legislature or the people whom he represents from among those who elected him (in the general elections), because with that deed, he has exceeded the limit which Allah Ta’ala created for him, because he is created as a slave of Allah, and his Lord orders him to surrender submissively to His Shari’ah, but he is reluctant, and he becomes arrogant instead and oversteps the limits which Allah Ta’ala has set, he on the other hand wants to make himself as a match for Allah and affiliate with Him in the authority of tashri’ (establishment of law and legislation), whereas it should not be turned to any other except to Allah Ta’ala and for anyone who does that, then he has made himself as Ilaah musharri’ (God the lawmaker), while it cannot be doubted anymore that for such a person, he is a part of the Ru’oos at-Tawaghit (Frontmen of taghut) where one’s Tawheed and Islam is not valid until he is kafir towards that taghut, avoiding it, as well as bara’a (being free) from its worshippers and troops.

          1. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Allah Ta’ala says:يُرِيدُونَ أَن يَتَحَاكَمُوا إِلَى الطَّاغُوتِ وَقَدْ أُمِرُوا أَن يَكْفُرُوا بِهِ{“They wish to refer legislation to Thaghut, while they were commanded to reject that Thaghut.”} [Quran 4: 60]Imam Mujahid (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “Taghut is devil in human form, where the humans refer the laws to him, while he is taking control of them.”Sheikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “On that account, one who rules by other than the Book of Allah where he becomes the legal reference, he is called taghut.”Imam Ibnul Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “Taghut is anything in which the limit is exceeded by the slaves, be it the one worshipped, or followed, or obeyed, that the taghut of every society is the people whom they make as legal reference other than Allah and His Messenger, or which they worship besides Allah, or that which they followed without any foundation of dalils from Allah, or the people whom they obeyed in matters which they do not know that it is a form of obedience to Allah”.And he said further: “Anyone who refers the law or reports lawsuits to others in addition to what has been brought about by Muhammad (Sallallahu ‘elayhi Wasalam), then it means that he had been referring the law and reporting lawsuits to the taghut.”And among the types of taghut worshipped besides Allah Ta’ala today, and which becomes the obligation of every Muwahid to be kafir towards them and be free from them, as well as from their followers so he can hold on to ‘al-’Urwat al-Wuthqa’ (the most trustworthy handhold Surat Luqman : 22) and be safe the fires of hell, are the false gods which have been made by many people as allies who make the laws and legislation besides Allah Ta’ala.أَمْ لَهُمْ شُرَكَاءُ شَرَعُوا لَهُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا لَمْ يَأْذَن بِهِ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْلَا كَلِمَةُ الْفَصْلِ لَقُضِيَ بَيْنَهُمْ{“Or have they other deities who have ordained for them a religion to which Allah has not consented? But if not for the decisive word, it would have been concluded between them.”}[Quran 42: 21]

  3. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
    Maborlz Ez-Hari

    Looks as though Saudi Arabia is the next domino to fall, I just want to know who the players are.

  4. Maborlz Ez-Hari Avatar
    Maborlz Ez-Hari

    Looks as though Saudi Arabia is the next domino to fall, I just want to know who the players are.

  5. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    Yr enlightened friends.

  6. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    Yr enlightened friends.

  7. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    Yr enlightened friends.

  8. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    Yr enlightened friends.

  9. Andre Avatar
    Andre

    There is no “democracy” in any religion. Why do people always try to explain how the religious books, religions, support democracy and are for equality – it’s all irrelevant, we’re talking about man made laws and greed power hungry men here.

    It’s very naive to think that any of these countries in the middle east tolerate democracy and freedom of speech, let alone civil human rights, since it threatens their existence in power – same old story!

    Until recently (Arab Spring), none of these ME rulers set forth strategic reforms to enable transitions to democratic governments, to benefit their country, and its people; each want to stay in power till death.

    People want democracy.., Rulers want Power, Control and Fear!

    1. Reasonableman Avatar
      Reasonableman

      Who is making such a claim? Democracy is a religion in itself. Democracy is not just about having a right to vote or just freedom of speech. Its a procedure which requires complete trust in a man and his law.

      1. Andre Avatar
        Andre

        Agreed. Democracy is a system/form of government in which all citizens participate equally (in theory). In a true democracy many forms of religions can coexist PEACEFULLY. Where under religion, you must belong to such sect/cult to be treated equally. Overtime religions became more tolerant than others, but Islam is still young and will take more time.

        My original point was, quoting a holy book is irrelevant in this case, because the ruling party in SA has nothing to do with following the holy book of Islam and its teachings, it only exploits it to its advantage and to strike fear and setting an example for others.

        1. Reasonableman Avatar
          Reasonableman

          The keyword is ‘CAN’ and anything with those chances usually have the same chances working against it.
          Ex. You have you Left wings (liberals) and your right wing (labour) and all those inbetween far right wing, fr left wing
          you also have the tree huggers, the gays, the racists, the punks etc etc. Now thats just the parties we are voting for… what about out on the street???
          You have your bikies, druglords, pimps, corrupt cops, thugs, gangs etc etc
          The best example, have you ever been window shopping in Amsterdam?? Is this your idea of Liberty and Coexistance??
          oh wait i forgot to mention the media who play the biggest part in promoting this as a norm, divorce rates have risen, crime has risen funny thing is alcohol fueled violence and domestic violence has risen the most. oh what wonderful forward thinking after 100 years of democracy and this is the idea of civilised what a wonderful life ahead of us.
          Man has shortcomings and hazards following him like a darkcloud true justice for ourself and those around us means ridding ourselfs of these hazards.

          although i can agree the SA are not the best example for living by the quran and sunnah.

      2. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        It is a ‘philosophy’ that can lead to societal peace and harmony and attempts to give those in it – who are inevitably unequal humans (not even twins are the same) – the equality of what is considered ‘humane rights’ for species preservation … under a system of laws which all live with. As Churchill said, the best thing we have thought of so far. It improves us, while forcing us to improve ourselves.
        Definitely NOT a religion, because it adapts to the changes of evolutionary (some would say revolutionary) thought that humans undergo as they learn more about their place in the cosmos – on this little blue planet lost in space. It allows us to BE us … NOT the servant-toys of gods who became tired of fighting amongst themselves and left it up to ONE, who then decided to create new football teams for amusement – because dinosaurs were really not that interesting after 300 million years.
        It is ‘religion’ which sticks to the mud the dinosaurs sank into. If a god had wanted to create us in his image, he might have supplied the larger brains from the beginning, which could at least have designed better football helmets.
        Should you NOT believe in yourself? As well as knowing your own limitations? And should you not collectively aim to improve the situation of our finite life-span, in freedom to gain an understanding of all that we call life, within the society of the human?
        We would still be stuck in a very dark age if the philosophy had not been formulated.
        Believing it the best way we can live together does not make the concept a religion – there are still many ‘team captains’ wanting to put us on a ‘godly side’ – which is allowed under ‘fair-play’ rules of engagement.

        1. Reasonableman Avatar
          Reasonableman

          Religion – a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons.
          You never seen religions adapt to change in society?
          search: jehovas witness, born again christians both of whome become enlightened with every new law to hit the block.

  10. Andre Avatar
    Andre

    There is no “democracy” in any religion. Why do people always try to explain how the religious books, religions, support democracy and are for equality – it’s all irrelevant, we’re talking about man made laws and greed power hungry men here.

    It’s very naive to think that any of these countries in the middle east tolerate democracy and freedom of speech, let alone civil human rights, since it threatens their existence in power – same old story!

    Until recently (Arab Spring), none of these ME rulers set forth strategic reforms to enable transitions to democratic governments, to benefit their country, and its people; each want to stay in power till death.

    People want democracy.., Rulers want Power, Control and Fear!

    1. Reasonableman Avatar
      Reasonableman

      Who is making such a claim? Democracy is a religion in itself. Democracy is not just about having a right to vote or just freedom of speech. Its a procedure which requires complete trust in a man and his law.

      1. Andre Avatar
        Andre

        Agreed. Democracy is a system/form of government in which all citizens participate equally (in theory). In a true democracy many forms of religions can coexist PEACEFULLY. Where under religion, you must belong to such sect/cult to be treated equally. Overtime religions became more tolerant than others, but Islam is still young and will take more time.

        My original point was, quoting a holy book is irrelevant in this case, because the ruling party in SA has nothing to do with following the holy book of Islam and its teachings, it only exploits it to its advantage and to strike fear and setting an example for others.

        1. Reasonableman Avatar
          Reasonableman

          The keyword is ‘CAN’ and anything with those chances usually have the same chances working against it.
          Ex. You have you Left wings (liberals) and your right wing (labour) and all those inbetween far right wing, fr left wing
          you also have the tree huggers, the gays, the racists, the punks etc etc. Now thats just the parties we are voting for… what about out on the street???
          You have your bikies, druglords, pimps, corrupt cops, thugs, gangs etc etc
          The best example, have you ever been window shopping in Amsterdam?? Is this your idea of Liberty and Coexistance??
          oh wait i forgot to mention the media who play the biggest part in promoting this as a norm, divorce rates have risen, crime has risen funny thing is alcohol fueled violence and domestic violence has risen the most. oh what wonderful forward thinking after 100 years of democracy and this is the idea of civilised what a wonderful life ahead of us.
          Man has shortcomings and hazards following him like a darkcloud true justice for ourself and those around us means ridding ourselfs of these hazards.

      2. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        It is a ‘philosophy’ that can lead to societal peace and harmony and attempts to give those in it – who are inevitably unequal humans (not even twins are the same) – the equality of what is considered ‘humane rights’ for species preservation … under a system of laws which all live with. As Churchill said, the best thing we have thought of so far.
        Definitely NOT a religion, because it adapts to the changes of evolutionary (some would say revolutionary) thought that humans undergo as they learn more about their place in the cosmos – on this little blue planet lost in space. It allows us to BE us … NOT the servant-toys of gods who became tired of fighting amongst themselves and left it up to ONE, who then decided to create football teams for amusement – because dinosaurs were really not that interesting after 300 million years.
        It is ‘religion’ which sticks to the mud the dinosaurs sank into. If a god had wanted to create us in his image, he might have supplied the larger brains from the beginning, which could at least have designed better football helmets.
        Should you NOT believe in yourself? As well as knowing your own limitations? And should you not collectively aim to improve the situation of our finite life-span, in freedom to gain an understanding of all that we call life, within the society of the human?
        We would still be stuck in a very dark age if the philosophy had not been formulated.
        Believing it the best way we can live together does not make the concept a religion – there are many ‘team captains’ still wanting to put us on a godly side.

        1. Reasonableman Avatar
          Reasonableman

          Religion – a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons.
          You never seen religions adapt to change in society?
          search: jehovas witness, born again christians both of whome become enlightened with every new law to hit the block.

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