Coptic Christians march on White House, Washington Post

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copts protest in washington  dc 3A group of Egyptians protested in front of the White House Thursday afternoon to “expose” what they say is “the clear bias of the Obama administration and the American media in support of the Muslim Brotherhood and its terrorist ideology.”

Hundreds of Egyptians, who travelled to Washington, D.C. from around the United States, gathered in front of the White House before marching to the offices of the Washington Post, news network CNN, and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Muslim advocacy group that protestors called the Brotherhood’s “embassy.”

Protest organizers called on “all Egyptians” living in the U.S. to join their march, which took place as violence in Egypt continues to rage between the Muslim Brotherhood and secular military forces.

The marchers’ final stop was the Egyptian military attaché’s D.C. office, where the activists chanted their support for “the Egyptian army for its heroic stand against [Muslim Brotherhood] terrorism.”

copts protest in washington  dc 2“We are against the Muslim Brotherhood,” protestor Ramez Mossed told the Free Beacon. “He [Obama] supports the Muslim Brotherhood. He has a big hand in Egypt and the mess in Egypt. We’re trying to tell him, ‘Don’t support the terrorists. Please be fair.’”

Many of those who participated in the march are Coptic Christians, a religious group that has been systematically targeted with violence by pro-Brotherhood protestors, some of whom have been desecrating and sieging churches in Egypt.

The protestors gathered on the curb outside of the White House lofting signs that read, “We support the Egyptian Army,” and “The Muslim Brotherhood never renounced terrorism.”

“You can burn down our churches but you can never touch our faith,” read another sign.

“I love this sign,” said one passerby who saw the sign referring to the churches. “I believe it too.”

Many Egyptian churches have been burned and vandalized in recent weeks as Muslim Brotherhood-backed protestors swarm the streets. Dozens have been killed during the riots.

“Although the Muslim Brotherhood has spent the last month destroying churches homes, and businesses, and torturing and killing both its civilian and military opponents, the Obama administration continues to insist that it be ‘included in the process’ of forming a new Egyptian government,” an advocacy group called the Institute on Religion and Democracy said in a statement of solidarity issued to reporters at the march.

The protestors, who were bussed into D.C. from their churches, maintain that the Obama administration has not done enough to protect Christians in Egypt from the Muslim Brotherhood.

“Obama, he’s helping them,” said Mossed.

The protest drew interest from tourists and other passersby. At one point, several Segway riders paused to snap pictures of the protestors.

Protestors said they were particularly upset with the way the American media has written about and portrayed the events in Egypt.

“The Washington Post, they don’t give a voice to the people and tell the truth,” Mossed said. “They have to show all the truth and not just hide it like Al Jazeera.”

copts protest in washington dc 4Another protest leader could he heard yelling about the Post, claiming that it is just “like Al Jazeera.”

When one attendee made note of Al Jazeera America’s recent launch, the protestor angrily responded: “More propaganda, more lies.”

The demonstrations come two weeks after a group of pro-Muslim Brotherhood activists held their own rally outside of the White House to protest what they say is the Egyptian military’s “coup.”

Egypt analysts said the march reflects frustration with the Obama administration, which has been cautious in the weeks since Mohamed Morsi was deposed.

“This particular march reflects the extent to which Egyptians are frustrated what they view as a less-than-enthusiastic response from Washington after Egyptians marched by the millions to topple a theocratic party from power,” said Eric Trager, an Egypt expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP).

“Of course, from Washington’s perspective, the devil is in the details: Morsi was, in fact, toppled by an inherently undemocratic military coup,” said Trager.

Christian supporters of Israel have also expressed worry at the situation in Egypt.

“This is a modern pogrom. The silence must end. The United States must lead,” Christians United for Israel executive director David Brog said in a statement.

“We must make it clear to the Egyptian government, the Muslim Brotherhood and the world that we will not ignore this tragedy.”

Spokesmen for the White House did not respond to a request for comment on the march.

copts protest in washington dc 1The Washington Post’s lobby was reportedly put on lockdown as a result of the march, which attracted scores of protesters.

“The lobby was closed for a very short time for safety,” Washington Post spokeswoman Kristine Coratti told the Free Beacon.

Coratti pushed back against the protestors’ criticism of the Post‘s Egypt coverage.

“Our coverage of events in Egypt has been comprehensive, incorporating all perspectives, and it has been fair, accurate, and honest,” she said.

The Washington Free Beacon

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17 responses to “Coptic Christians march on White House, Washington Post”

  1. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    Curiously, in the Land Of The Gun, there was no shooting. And onlookers could come and go as they pleased, and even take some pictures. Is there really something about ‘free speech’ here?

  2. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    Curiously, in the Land Of The Gun, there was no shooting. And onlookers could come and go as they pleased, and even take some pictures. Is there really something about ‘free speech’ here?

  3. [ANSWER]:
    Here is information on the Quran:
    To our Muslim brother who sent the letter from the “Caring Christian”:

    Salam alaykum,

    Thank you for your kind letter and for you encouraging words. Certainly this is most appreciated and goes quite a long way with us.

    Regarding the letter you attached from the “Christian” – let me say that this is a very deep subject and not one for a single email. But I can give you a brief insight as to what I might do in a similar situation.

    First, I do not like it when someone pretends to be ‘hesitating’ to say something at first, but as you read on they don’t hestiate at all, even by comparing our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, to Adolf Hitler. This is absolutely uncalled for and inappropriate.

    Next, I would like to encourage everyone to read what we have published about both the Quran and the Bible:

    http://www.AllahsQuran.com

    http://www.IslamCode.com

    http://www.Qtafisr.com

    http://www.IslamTomorrow.com/free

    We know the Qur’an (Recitation of Allah) is exactly preserved and memorized as it was during the lifetime of the holy prophet, peace be upon him. This cannot be disputed because we have over 20 million who have memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, word for word, all around the world and any one of them can bring it back just as it was at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him. Every Muslim in the world (over 1.5 billion) knows at least portions in the Arabic language, although 88% are not even Arabs.

    On the other hand, Bible scholars themselves know that nothing of the original words, letters or even original copies of the Old or the New Testament exist anymore. Nothin in the original form either in memory or written text exists anywhere on the earth, nor has it existed as such for at least 1,500 or more years.

    Interesting enough, the Qur’an does claim the original Bible was from the exact same source (Almighty God) and it (The Qur’an) is merely bringing back to us the original message that came with all the prophets from Adam to Jesus (peace be upon them all) – the message of “No God beside God” (Arabic: Laa elaha illalah).

    The teachings of Islam from the Quran and the hadeeth of Muhammad, peace be upon him, are very clear and available in the original texts in Arabic for whomsoever would like to read them.

    Now for the comparison to the Bible…

    There are no “hidden” books (called ‘apocrapha’ by the Catholics) or ‘alternate readings’ of older, ‘more authentic’ manuscripts (see: Revised Standard Version of Bible, introduction.

    *Original Text – means the actual text written down or recorded by or under the supervision of, the originator; as in: The Moses did not write what is in the “Books of Moses” because the last paragraph of Deuteronomy tells us Moses died and was buried. The Quran was both memorized by companions of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and it was written down by his companions in books still remaining today in museums.

    This is in the very beginning of my own Bible – given to me by my grandfather in 1954, when I was a youth. READ IT:

    “The King James Version has with good reason been termed ‘the noblest monument of English prose.’ Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration of ‘its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of express… the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm.’ It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt.”

    “Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for a revision of the English translation. The task was undertaken, by authority of the Church of England, in 1870. The English Revised Version of the Bibles was published in 1881-1885; and the American Standard Version, its variant embodying the preferences of the American scholars associated in the work, was published in 1901.”

    “Because of the unhappy experience with unauthorized publications in the two decades between 1881 and 1901, which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version in the supposed interest of the American public, the American Standard Version was copyrighted, to protect the text from unauthorized changes. In 1928 this copyright was acquired by the International Council of Religious Education, and thus passed into the ownership of the churches of the United States and Canada which were associated in this Council through their boards of education and publication.”

    “…. decision was reached that there is need for a thorough revision of the version of 1901..””In 1937 the revision was authorized by vote of the Council.”

    “Thirty-two scholars have served as members of the Committee charged with making the revision, and they have secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations.”

    “Each section has submitted its work to the scrutiny of the members of the charter of the Committee requires that all changes be agreed upon by a two-thirds vote of the total membership of the Committee.”

    “The problem of establishing the correct Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Old testament is very different from the corresponding problem in the New Testament.”

    “For the New Testament we have a large number of Greek manuscripts, preserving many variant forms of the text. Some of them were made only two or three centuries later than the original composition of the books.”

    “For the Old Testament only late manuscripts survive, all (with the exception of the Dead Sea Texts of Isaiah and Habakkuk and some fragments of other books) based on a standardized form of the text established many centuries after the books were written.”

    “The present revision is based on the consonantal Hebrew and Aramaic text as fixed early in the Christian era and revised by Jewish scholars (the ‘Masoretes’) of the sixth to ninth centuries. The vowel signs, which were added by the Masoretes, are accepted also in the main, but where a more probable and convincing reading can be obtained by assuming different vowels, this has been done.”

    “… vowel points are less ancient and [less] reliable than the consonants.”

    “Departures from the consonantal text of the best manuscripts have been made only where it seems clear that errors in copying had been made before the text was standardized.”

    “Most of the corrections adopted are based on the ancient versions [translations into Greek Aramaic, Syriac, and Latin], which were made before the time of the Masoretic revision and therefore reflect earlier forms of the text.”

    “Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text.”

    “Many difficulties and obscurities, of course, remain.”

    “Where the choice between two meanings is particularly difficult or doubtful, we have given an alternative rendering in a footnote.”

    “If in the judgment of the Committee the meaning of a passage is quite uncertain or obscure, either because of corruption in the text or because of the inadequacy of our present knowledge of the language, that fact is indicated by a note.”

    “It should not be assumed, however, that the Committee was entirely sure or unanimous concerning every rendering not so indicated.”

    “To record all minority views was obviously out of the question.”

    “The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying.”

    “It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts.”

    “The earliest and best of the eight manuscripts which Erasmus consulted was from the tenth century, and [yet] he made the least use of it because it differed most from the commonly received text; Beza had access to two manuscripts of great value, dating from the fifth and sixth centuries, but he made very little use of them because they differed from the text published by Erasmus.”

    “We now possess many more ancient manuscripts of the new Testament, and are far better equipped to seek to recover the original wording of the Greek text. The evidence for the text of the books of the New Testament is better that for any other ancient book, both in the number of extant manuscripts and in the nearness of the date of some of these manuscripts to the date when the book was originally written.”

    The words are in plain English. The second paragraph says it all, “Yet, the King James Version has grave defects.”

    Therefore, we must conclude the “King James Version” is NOT the Actual Bible sent by God to mankind.

    Here is another interesting fact about the “King James Authorized Version” translation of the Bible in 1611 A.D. – It was really “NOT AUTHORIZED” by the King and he didn’t even know it was done until afterwards. The proof is in the dedication to him – called the “Dedicatory”

    Click here (or image above) to see full size page
    Reprint (below) for clarification
    THE EPISTLE DEDICATORY
    And now at last, by the mercy of god, and the continuance of our labors, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold our duty to offer it to your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of ill-meaning and discontented person, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labors shall more honor and encourage us, than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God’s holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by the truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty’s grace and favor, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavors against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

    The Lord of Heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days, that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great God
    (Please continue to chapter 2 – “Are There Contradictions in the Bible?”)

    Chapter 1 – Is King James Version the Actual Bible?

  4. [ANSWER]:
    Here is information on the Quran:
    To our Muslim brother who sent the letter from the “Caring Christian”:

    Salam alaykum,

    Thank you for your kind letter and for you encouraging words. Certainly this is most appreciated and goes quite a long way with us.

    Regarding the letter you attached from the “Christian” – let me say that this is a very deep subject and not one for a single email. But I can give you a brief insight as to what I might do in a similar situation.

    First, I do not like it when someone pretends to be ‘hesitating’ to say something at first, but as you read on they don’t hestiate at all, even by comparing our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, to Adolf Hitler. This is absolutely uncalled for and inappropriate.

    Next, I would like to encourage everyone to read what we have published about both the Quran

    We know the Qur’an (Recitation of Allah) is exactly preserved and memorized as it was during the lifetime of the holy prophet, peace be upon him. This cannot be disputed because we have over 20 million who have memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, word for word, all around the world and any one of them can bring it back just as it was at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him. Every Muslim in the world (over 1.5 billion) knows at least portions in the Arabic language, although 88% are not even Arabs.

    On the other hand, Bible scholars themselves know that nothing of the original words, letters or even original copies of the Old or the New Testament exist anymore. Nothin in the original form either in memory or written text exists anywhere on the earth, nor has it existed as such for at least 1,500 or more years.

    Interesting enough, the Qur’an does claim the original Bible was from the exact same source (Almighty God) and it (The Qur’an) is merely bringing back to us the original message that came with all the prophets from Adam to Jesus (peace be upon them all) – the message of “No God beside God” (Arabic: Laa elaha illalah).

    The teachings of Islam from the Quran and the hadeeth of Muhammad, peace be upon him, are very clear and available in the original texts in Arabic for whomsoever would like to read them.

    Now for the comparison to the Bible…

    There are no “hidden” books (called ‘apocrapha’ by the Catholics) or ‘alternate readings’ of older, ‘more authentic’ manuscripts (see: Revised Standard Version of Bible, introduction.

    *Original Text – means the actual text written down or recorded by or under the supervision of, the originator; as in: The Moses did not write what is in the “Books of Moses” because the last paragraph of Deuteronomy tells us Moses died and was buried. The Quran was both memorized by companions of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and it was written down by his companions in books still remaining today in museums.

    This is in the very beginning of my own Bible – given to me by my grandfather in 1954, when I was a youth. READ IT:

    “The King James Version has with good reason been termed ‘the noblest monument of English prose.’ Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration of ‘its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of express… the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm.’ It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt.”

    “Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for a revision of the English translation. The task was undertaken, by authority of the Church of England, in 1870. The English Revised Version of the Bibles was published in 1881-1885; and the American Standard Version, its variant embodying the preferences of the American scholars associated in the work, was published in 1901.”

    “Because of the unhappy experience with unauthorized publications in the two decades between 1881 and 1901, which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version in the supposed interest of the American public, the American Standard Version was copyrighted, to protect the text from unauthorized changes. In 1928 this copyright was acquired by the International Council of Religious Education, and thus passed into the ownership of the churches of the United States and Canada which were associated in this Council through their boards of education and publication.”

    “…. decision was reached that there is need for a thorough revision of the version of 1901..””In 1937 the revision was authorized by vote of the Council.”

    “Thirty-two scholars have served as members of the Committee charged with making the revision, and they have secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations.”

    “Each section has submitted its work to the scrutiny of the members of the charter of the Committee requires that all changes be agreed upon by a two-thirds vote of the total membership of the Committee.”

    “The problem of establishing the correct Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Old testament is very different from the corresponding problem in the New Testament.”

    “For the New Testament we have a large number of Greek manuscripts, preserving many variant forms of the text. Some of them were made only two or three centuries later than the original composition of the books.”

    “For the Old Testament only late manuscripts survive, all (with the exception of the Dead Sea Texts of Isaiah and Habakkuk and some fragments of other books) based on a standardized form of the text established many centuries after the books were written.”

    “The present revision is based on the consonantal Hebrew and Aramaic text as fixed early in the Christian era and revised by Jewish scholars (the ‘Masoretes’) of the sixth to ninth centuries. The vowel signs, which were added by the Masoretes, are accepted also in the main, but where a more probable and convincing reading can be obtained by assuming different vowels, this has been done.”

    “… vowel points are less ancient and [less] reliable than the consonants.”

    “Departures from the consonantal text of the best manuscripts have been made only where it seems clear that errors in copying had been made before the text was standardized.”

    “Most of the corrections adopted are based on the ancient versions [translations into Greek Aramaic, Syriac, and Latin], which were made before the time of the Masoretic revision and therefore reflect earlier forms of the text.”

    “Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text.”

    “Many difficulties and obscurities, of course, remain.”

    “Where the choice between two meanings is particularly difficult or doubtful, we have given an alternative rendering in a footnote.”

    “If in the judgment of the Committee the meaning of a passage is quite uncertain or obscure, either because of corruption in the text or because of the inadequacy of our present knowledge of the language, that fact is indicated by a note.”

    “It should not be assumed, however, that the Committee was entirely sure or unanimous concerning every rendering not so indicated.”

    “To record all minority views was obviously out of the question.”

    “The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying.”

    “It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts.”

    “The earliest and best of the eight manuscripts which Erasmus consulted was from the tenth century, and [yet] he made the least use of it because it differed most from the commonly received text; Beza had access to two manuscripts of great value, dating from the fifth and sixth centuries, but he made very little use of them because they differed from the text published by Erasmus.”

    “We now possess many more ancient manuscripts of the new Testament, and are far better equipped to seek to recover the original wording of the Greek text. The evidence for the text of the books of the New Testament is better that for any other ancient book, both in the number of extant manuscripts and in the nearness of the date of some of these manuscripts to the date when the book was originally written.”

    The words are in plain English. The second paragraph says it all, “Yet, the King James Version has grave defects.”

    Therefore, we must conclude the “King James Version” is NOT the Actual Bible sent by God to mankind.

    Here is another interesting fact about the “King James Authorized Version” translation of the Bible in 1611 A.D. – It was really “NOT AUTHORIZED” by the King and he didn’t even know it was done until afterwards. The proof is in the dedication to him – called
    THE EPISTLE DEDICATORY
    And now at last, by the mercy of god, and the continuance of our labors, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold our duty to offer it to your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of ill-meaning and discontented person, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labors shall more honor and encourage us, than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God’s holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by the truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty’s grace and favor, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavors against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

    The Lord of Heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days, that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great God
    (Please continue to chapter 2 – “Are There Contradictions in the Bible?”)

    Chapter 1 – Is King James Version the Actual Bible?

    1. master09 Avatar

      Interesting enough, the Qur’an does claim the original Bible was from the exact same source (Almighty God) and it (The Qur’an) is merely bringing back to us the original message.
      You say above , this is correct the Quran is just a copy of the bible but changed and written by Jews and Christians by order of Mouhamed…

      1. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Looks like you have been reading the pamphlets ive been handing out around auburn quoting how islam brings us back to the correct religion of monothiesm except you have let the truth get into the way of your story(the truth being the religion of prophet jesus is monothiesm). If you were to destroy all the books of quran in the world guess what? It is still inscripted in the hearts of the believers just as it was at the time of our prophet and the desciples and the quran has been around for 1400 years. We have memorised the quran front cover to back cover.
        Jesus said “indeed, i am the slave of allah. He has given me the scripture and made me a prophet”(quran 19:30)
        The convept of jesus being god or the begotten son of god is inconsistent with the old testament, the quran and numerous passages within the new testament.

        As numerous quranic verses clearly indicate, jesus was not god, nor was he the begotten son of god, as it does not befit his majesty to have children. Claiming that god had a son would mean to attribute human qualities and limitations to the all-mighty and god is far removed from such imperfection.

        1. master09 Avatar

          Many will come after me who will deceive them.
          For many will come in my name, and will deceive many. I am the last. Anyone who changes these words, any one the takes away , anyone that adds. Tell me something have you studied the Bible. ? Word for word. I will say it a million times and I have asked the ? A thousand times to prove to me in facts that Mohamed did not kill humans by his own sword and ordered the killing of thousands. Second prove to me that he wrote the Quran.
          You see the Bible was written not by Jesus own hands but by who. So your the one wearing that dress near the Turkish sweet shop handing out butt paper.

      2. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        “Surely they have disbelieved who say ” Allah is the messiah, son of Mary.’ But the messia (i.e jesus) said : ‘O children of israel! Worship allah my lord and your lord”(quran 5:72)
        “It is not befitting for allah to take a son; exaltes is He! When he decrees an affair. He only says to it. ‘Be and it is” quran 19:35
        The fact that jesus performes miracles does not mean that he was anything more than a humble slave of allah and messenger of allah. Infact messengers performed miracles including Noah, Moses and Muhammed (peace be upon them all) and these miracles took place by permission of allah, so as to prove the authenticity of the messenger.

      3. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Some claim that his miraculous birth is evidence of jesus’ divinity. However jesus was not the first to come to existence without a father, as prophet adam (peace be upon him) had neither a father nor mother.
        Allah says: ” the likeness of jesus before allah is as that of adam; He created him from dust then said to him: ‘Be’ and he was. This is the truth from your lord so be not of the disputers”(quran 3:59-60)
        Surely if jesus is worshipped due to having no father, adam is more deserving of worship since he was without a father or mother.

      4. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        “Say: o people of the scripture! Come to a word that is equitable between us and you; that we will not worship anything except allah and not associate anything with him and not take one another as lords instead of allah.” But if they turn away, then say, ‘bear witness that weare muslims(submitting to god) quran 3:64

  5. [ANSWER]:
    Here is information on the Quran:
    To our Muslim brother who sent the letter from the “Caring Christian”:

    Salam alaykum,

    Thank you for your kind letter and for you encouraging words. Certainly this is most appreciated and goes quite a long way with us.

    Regarding the letter you attached from the “Christian” – let me say that this is a very deep subject and not one for a single email. But I can give you a brief insight as to what I might do in a similar situation.

    First, I do not like it when someone pretends to be ‘hesitating’ to say something at first, but as you read on they don’t hestiate at all, even by comparing our beloved prophet, peace be upon him, to Adolf Hitler. This is absolutely uncalled for and inappropriate.

    Next, I would like to encourage everyone to read what we have published about both the Quran

    We know the Qur’an (Recitation of Allah) is exactly preserved and memorized as it was during the lifetime of the holy prophet, peace be upon him. This cannot be disputed because we have over 20 million who have memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover, word for word, all around the world and any one of them can bring it back just as it was at the time of the prophet, peace be upon him. Every Muslim in the world (over 1.5 billion) knows at least portions in the Arabic language, although 88% are not even Arabs.

    On the other hand, Bible scholars themselves know that nothing of the original words, letters or even original copies of the Old or the New Testament exist anymore. Nothin in the original form either in memory or written text exists anywhere on the earth, nor has it existed as such for at least 1,500 or more years.

    Interesting enough, the Qur’an does claim the original Bible was from the exact same source (Almighty God) and it (The Qur’an) is merely bringing back to us the original message that came with all the prophets from Adam to Jesus (peace be upon them all) – the message of “No God beside God” (Arabic: Laa elaha illalah).

    The teachings of Islam from the Quran and the hadeeth of Muhammad, peace be upon him, are very clear and available in the original texts in Arabic for whomsoever would like to read them.

    Now for the comparison to the Bible…

    There are no “hidden” books (called ‘apocrapha’ by the Catholics) or ‘alternate readings’ of older, ‘more authentic’ manuscripts (see: Revised Standard Version of Bible, introduction.

    *Original Text – means the actual text written down or recorded by or under the supervision of, the originator; as in: The Moses did not write what is in the “Books of Moses” because the last paragraph of Deuteronomy tells us Moses died and was buried. The Quran was both memorized by companions of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and it was written down by his companions in books still remaining today in museums.

    This is in the very beginning of my own Bible – given to me by my grandfather in 1954, when I was a youth. READ IT:

    “The King James Version has with good reason been termed ‘the noblest monument of English prose.’ Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration of ‘its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of express… the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm.’ It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt.”

    “Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for a revision of the English translation. The task was undertaken, by authority of the Church of England, in 1870. The English Revised Version of the Bibles was published in 1881-1885; and the American Standard Version, its variant embodying the preferences of the American scholars associated in the work, was published in 1901.”

    “Because of the unhappy experience with unauthorized publications in the two decades between 1881 and 1901, which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version in the supposed interest of the American public, the American Standard Version was copyrighted, to protect the text from unauthorized changes. In 1928 this copyright was acquired by the International Council of Religious Education, and thus passed into the ownership of the churches of the United States and Canada which were associated in this Council through their boards of education and publication.”

    “…. decision was reached that there is need for a thorough revision of the version of 1901..””In 1937 the revision was authorized by vote of the Council.”

    “Thirty-two scholars have served as members of the Committee charged with making the revision, and they have secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations.”

    “Each section has submitted its work to the scrutiny of the members of the charter of the Committee requires that all changes be agreed upon by a two-thirds vote of the total membership of the Committee.”

    “The problem of establishing the correct Hebrew and Aramaic text of the Old testament is very different from the corresponding problem in the New Testament.”

    “For the New Testament we have a large number of Greek manuscripts, preserving many variant forms of the text. Some of them were made only two or three centuries later than the original composition of the books.”

    “For the Old Testament only late manuscripts survive, all (with the exception of the Dead Sea Texts of Isaiah and Habakkuk and some fragments of other books) based on a standardized form of the text established many centuries after the books were written.”

    “The present revision is based on the consonantal Hebrew and Aramaic text as fixed early in the Christian era and revised by Jewish scholars (the ‘Masoretes’) of the sixth to ninth centuries. The vowel signs, which were added by the Masoretes, are accepted also in the main, but where a more probable and convincing reading can be obtained by assuming different vowels, this has been done.”

    “… vowel points are less ancient and [less] reliable than the consonants.”

    “Departures from the consonantal text of the best manuscripts have been made only where it seems clear that errors in copying had been made before the text was standardized.”

    “Most of the corrections adopted are based on the ancient versions [translations into Greek Aramaic, Syriac, and Latin], which were made before the time of the Masoretic revision and therefore reflect earlier forms of the text.”

    “Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text.”

    “Many difficulties and obscurities, of course, remain.”

    “Where the choice between two meanings is particularly difficult or doubtful, we have given an alternative rendering in a footnote.”

    “If in the judgment of the Committee the meaning of a passage is quite uncertain or obscure, either because of corruption in the text or because of the inadequacy of our present knowledge of the language, that fact is indicated by a note.”

    “It should not be assumed, however, that the Committee was entirely sure or unanimous concerning every rendering not so indicated.”

    “To record all minority views was obviously out of the question.”

    “The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying.”

    “It was essentially the Greek text of the New Testament as edited by Beza, 1589, who closely followed that published by Erasmus, 1516-1535, which was based upon a few medieval manuscripts.”

    “The earliest and best of the eight manuscripts which Erasmus consulted was from the tenth century, and [yet] he made the least use of it because it differed most from the commonly received text; Beza had access to two manuscripts of great value, dating from the fifth and sixth centuries, but he made very little use of them because they differed from the text published by Erasmus.”

    “We now possess many more ancient manuscripts of the new Testament, and are far better equipped to seek to recover the original wording of the Greek text. The evidence for the text of the books of the New Testament is better that for any other ancient book, both in the number of extant manuscripts and in the nearness of the date of some of these manuscripts to the date when the book was originally written.”

    The words are in plain English. The second paragraph says it all, “Yet, the King James Version has grave defects.”

    Therefore, we must conclude the “King James Version” is NOT the Actual Bible sent by God to mankind.

    Here is another interesting fact about the “King James Authorized Version” translation of the Bible in 1611 A.D. – It was really “NOT AUTHORIZED” by the King and he didn’t even know it was done until afterwards. The proof is in the dedication to him – called
    THE EPISTLE DEDICATORY
    And now at last, by the mercy of god, and the continuance of our labors, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold our duty to offer it to your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of ill-meaning and discontented person, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labors shall more honor and encourage us, than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God’s holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by the truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty’s grace and favor, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavors against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

    The Lord of Heaven and earth bless Your Majesty with many and happy days, that, as his heavenly hand hath enriched Your Highness with many singular and extraordinary graces, so You may be the wonder of the world in this latter age for happiness and true felicity, to the honour of that great God
    (Please continue to chapter 2 – “Are There Contradictions in the Bible?”)

    Chapter 1 – Is King James Version the Actual Bible?

    1. master09 Avatar

      Interesting enough, the Qur’an does claim the original Bible was from the exact same source (Almighty God) and it (The Qur’an) is merely bringing back to us the original message.
      You say above , this is correct the Quran is just a copy of the bible but changed and written by Jews and Christians by order of Mouhamed…

      1. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Looks like you have been reading the pamphlets ive been handing out around auburn quoting how islam brings us back to the correct religion of monothiesm except you have let the truth get into the way of your story(the truth being the religion of prophet jesus is monothiesm). If you were to destroy all the books of quran in the world guess what? It is still inscripted in the hearts of the believers just as it was at the time of our prophet and the desciples and the quran has been around for 1400 years. We have memorised the quran front cover to back cover.
        Jesus said “indeed, i am the slave of allah. He has given me the scripture and made me a prophet”(quran 19:30)
        The convept of jesus being god or the begotten son of god is inconsistent with the old testament, the quran and numerous passages within the new testament.

        As numerous quranic verses clearly indicate, jesus was not god, nor was he the begotten son of god, as it does not befit his majesty to have children. Claiming that god had a son would mean to attribute human qualities and limitations to the all-mighty and god is far removed from such imperfection.

        1. master09 Avatar

          Many will come after me who will deceive them.
          For many will come in my name, and will deceive many. I am the last. Anyone who changes these words, any one the takes away , anyone that adds. Tell me something have you studied the Bible. ? Word for word. I will say it a million times and I have asked the ? A thousand times to prove to me in facts that Mohamed did not kill humans by his own sword and ordered the killing of thousands. Second prove to me that he wrote the Quran.
          You see the Bible was written not by Jesus own hands but by who. So your the one wearing that dress near the Turkish sweet shop handing out butt paper.

      2. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        “Surely they have disbelieved who say ” Allah is the messiah, son of Mary.’ But the messia (i.e jesus) said : ‘O children of israel! Worship allah my lord and your lord”(quran 5:72)
        “It is not befitting for allah to take a son; exaltes is He! When he decrees an affair. He only says to it. ‘Be and it is” quran 19:35
        The fact that jesus performes miracles does not mean that he was anything more than a humble slave of allah and messenger of allah. Infact messengers performed miracles including Noah, Moses and Muhammed (peace be upon them all) and these miracles took place by permission of allah, so as to prove the authenticity of the messenger.

      3. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        Some claim that his miraculous birth is evidence of jesus’ divinity. However jesus was not the first to come to existence without a father, as prophet adam (peace be upon him) had neither a father nor mother.
        Allah says: ” the likeness of jesus before allah is as that of adam; He created him from dust then said to him: ‘Be’ and he was. This is the truth from your lord so be not of the disputers”(quran 3:59-60)
        Surely if jesus is worshipped due to having no father, adam is more deserving of worship since he was without a father or mother.

      4. Reasonableman Avatar
        Reasonableman

        “Say: o people of the scripture! Come to a word that is equitable between us and you; that we will not worship anything except allah and not associate anything with him and not take one another as lords instead of allah.” But if they turn away, then say, ‘bear witness that weare muslims(submitting to god) quran 3:64

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