Pope Sends Message of Respect for Muslims

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pope francis with diplomatic corpIn a demonstration of what the Vatican spokesman called Pope Francis’ “particular attention to relations with the Muslim world,” the pope on Friday personally signed the Holy See message for Muslims at the end of Ramadan, calling for “mutual respect through education” between Christianity and Islam.

“We are called to respect the religion of the other, its teachings, its symbols, its values,” Francis wrote in a statement distributed by the Holy See.

“We have to bring up our young people to think and speak respectfully of other religions and their followers,” said the message, which stressed the enhanced role that education must play in building respect for different religions and the need “to avoid ridiculing or denigrating their convictions and practices.”

“As an expression of esteem and friendship for all Muslims,” Francis decided to personally sign his good wishes to Muslims worldwide on the feast of Id al-Fitr, which celebrates the end of Ramadan, a month of prayer and fasting. Historically, the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue has delivered the message on behalf of the Holy See. The last pope to send a personal message to Muslims was John Paul II in the aftermath of the Persian Gulf war in 1991.

“It’s not the first time that a pontiff has signed the message by his own hand,” the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said. “But it certainly shows Francis’ particular attention to relations with the Muslim world.”

In 2006, Francis’ predecessor as pope, Benedict XVI, upset Muslims when he quoted a Byzantine emperor who called Islam “evil and inhuman.” Muslims in many countries took to the streets in protest, and an Italian nun was killed in Somalia. Benedict later apologized, and the Holy See was very careful in avoiding any similar remarks.

Francis, who chose the name of the saint known as the “universal brother,” with strong ties to Islam, has always been quite attentive to interreligious dialogue. Meeting religious leaders from all over the world in March, the pope promised friendship, respect and dialogue among men and women of different religious traditions, and expressed special gratitude to the Muslim leaders who had come to salute him at the beginning of his papacy.

In his first address to the Diplomatic Corps accredited to the Holy See, Francis stressed the importance of intensifying dialogue among the various faiths, “particularly dialogue with Islam.”

NY Times

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60 responses to “Pope Sends Message of Respect for Muslims”

  1. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    How about just some education ….

    1. Unfortunately the education is required from the top down not from the bottom up?

  2. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    How about just some education ….

    1. Unfortunately the education is required from the top down not from the bottom up?

  3. Trinity is shirk and since this is an important Christian belief, it also applies to the religion too.

    1. Constantin7 Avatar
      Constantin7

      You don’t even know what trinity means. To put it simply: it is like water: It can be solid (ice and snow), liquid and vapor. All these are H2O. So God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now answer my question please on shirk because I accuse Islam of Shirk since Muslims put Mohammad at a higher level than God himself: 2 examples: If someone insults God in front of a muslim, this muslim will not even care, but if someone insults Mohammad he risks being beaten or killed, isn’t true ? Another example: You say all day long: “Mohammad rassoul allah, salla allah aalayhi wa aala ahlihi wa sahbihi wa sallam” , i,e, Mohammad God’s messenger, upon whom and his family and his friends God is going to pray and greet”.
      Are you aware and concsious of what you are saying : God all mighty who created every human and everything including Mohammad is going to pray to Mohammad and his family (which was an atheist family) and his friends ? You are putting Mohammad above God ? Who is using shirk here ?

      1. Hannibal Avatar

        The best argument EVER!
        Now I am awaiting the answer from a brainwashed takfiiri… HE HE

      2. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        ridiculous hahahaha
        who taught you this bs? pere George from “monlassale”? yek yek yek
        Attacking one religion and defending another is simply the highest level of ridicule.
        Whether you recognize that all religions are fake and mostly obsolete or you respect all religions as various demonstration of God or Gods…

    2. Hannibal Avatar

      Coming from an anonymous guest who does not understand what a Trinity means.

  4. Trinity is shirk and since this is an important Christian belief, it also applies to the religion too.

    1. Constantin7 Avatar
      Constantin7

      You don’t even know what trinity means. To put it simply: it is like water: It can be solid (ice and snow), liquid and vapor. All these are H2O. So God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now answer my question please on shirk because I accuse Islam of Shirk since Muslims put Mohammad at a higher level than God himself: 2 examples: If someone insults God in front of a muslim, this muslim will not even care, but if someone insults Mohammad he risks being beaten or killed, isn’t true ? Another example: You say all day long: “Mohammad rassoul allah, salla allah aalayhi wa aala ahlihi wa sahbihi wa sallam” , i,e, Mohammad God’s messenger, upon whom and his family and his friends God is going to pray and greet”.
      Are you aware and concsious of what you are saying : God all mighty who created every human and everything including Mohammad is going to pray to Mohammad and his family (which was an atheist family) and his friends ? You are putting Mohammad above God ? Who is using shirk here ?

      1. Hannibal Avatar

        The best argument EVER!
        Now I am awaiting the answer from a brainwashed takfiiri… HE HE

      2. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        ridiculous hahahaha
        who taught you this bs? pere George from “monlassale”? yek yek yek
        Attacking one religion and defending another is simply the highest level of ridicule.
        Whether you recognize that all religions are fake and mostly obsolete or you respect all religions as various demonstration of God or Gods…

    2. Hannibal Avatar

      Coming from an anonymous guest who does not understand what a Trinity means.

  5. Respect is a two way street. Muslims respect Jesus(pbuh)so will christians now repect Mohammed (pbuh ).

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      One can only respect their recorded thoughts. Difficult to know or respect dead people.
      Mind you, some think they are the reincarnations …

    2. Constantin7 Avatar
      Constantin7

      Btru2u, the problem is that you always mix up muslims with Mohammad. The Pope’s message is to respect muslims (who did not do anything to be born muslims) and their freedom/choice to believe in Islam. You speak about a “2-way street” respect: Tell me if a Christian has the freedom in any Arab or muslim country other than Lebanon to exercise his religious rights freely ? Can we eat a sandwich in the street during Ramadan in Damascus ? Can I walk in a church in Baghdad and feel safe ? Can I ware my cross on my neck and show it and walk in Jeddah without being caught by the religious police and thrown in jail ? However, muslims can do whatever they want in any christian or western country without any social or official harrassment, and the law protects their freedom of choice and belief. This is what the Pope is talking about !!!
      As for Mohammad, you want me to respect this man ? Why ? Because he killed thousands and incited his followers to kill millions after him for 1400 years just to believe in him as Rassoul Allah ? Because he married 13 women (officially) and fornicated with hundreds of other women when he invaded tribes and stole they goods and women ? Because he wrote the Koran, which is full of contradictions, lies and incitments to hate and kill the other who does not believe in what Mohammad preached ? Because in his fifties he married a 6 years old girl (Aicha) ? Would you marry your daughter at 6, at 9 at 12 at 15 to any man (let alone to a man in the 50s) ?
      No my friend we do not respect a man who lived like Mohammad, in fact it is our duty and the duty of any human being to despise and reject Mohammad and his obnoxious and criminal actions which have nothing to do with God and contradict the simplest Human values that we share with all humanity. Any uneducated simple muslim would not do the atriocities that Mohammad did and has more human values than the prophet of Islam, and you want me to respect him. Wake up man !!! Wake up your prophet is just a criminal who forced himself on the world by the sword.

      1. You are a hater Constantine, and a provoker. Your attempt to misrepresent the greatest man of all time , is in vain. Your insults are your doom in this life and in the hereafter. You will perish in your rage.
        Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) only spoke Greatness of her husband in the highest exemplary terms. she was not a victim but an honoured gift from God and her father . She had an extraordinary memory and recorded over 5000 hadith of the prophets actions and saying. Is this the actions of a victim. Unlike the countless victims that the representatives of the CROSS , ABUSE , MOLEST, AND DEEPLY SCARR. Truth always comes out because the victims speak up. So don’t pretend to respect muslims on one hand and insult their deepest love on the other. I encourage anyone with doubt to read the sealed nectar, the life of the prophet. or listen to Anwar AL Awlakis cds ‘The life of Mohammed’ and ‘The life of Abu BAKR”. WORK THAT WERE SO INFLUENCIAL, THAT USA KILLED HIM FOR IT.

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          If you are upset with what Constantin said there is no need for you to speak ill of the representatives of the cross and put the cross in the line of molest and abuse…
          No religion has done right by the human race and you know it… Just take a look at Syria, I think Mohammed is spinning in his grave.

          1. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            Religion can make people do some evil things. No doubt about that. However, Constantin attacked and insulted the prophet. If Btru2u responded in a similar fashion he would have attacked and insulted Jesus. Instead he attacked the representatives of the cross. We all know individuals that represent Islam or the church can’t be controlled and their behavior should not be indicative of an entire religion.

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Ah yes Man-o … ‘Let him who is without sin cast the first stone’.
            One of the better thoughts in a ‘good book’. 😉

          3. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            Man-o-war I don’t care if you or Btru2u attack or insult Jesus, this is your problem with HIM, not with me. Jesus did not appoint me as his lawyer :-), Jesus does not need humans to defend him. But I will always preach Jesus to the whole world as the Son of God and the Messiah, whether you approve it or not.

          4. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            I have no reason to attack Jesus or any other prophet. I was just pointing out how your comment is full of inaccuracies and shows your intolerance. Its fine that you don’t mind people bashing or insulting Jesus and spreading lies about him. There are millions of Christians that would not like it and therefore respectful people don’t do it.

            “I will always preach Jesus to the whole world as the Son of God and the Messiah”, thats fine, but that’s not what you were doing in your comment. Instead of following WWJD (What would Jesus do?), you acted out of hatred and intolerance. I think you should delve deeper into your religion. Maybe you can learn some respect and tolerance.

          5. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            I can assure you that I have no hatred to any body. My rejection is against one man only and his teachings. What is WWJD ??? (Sorry I am not as informed as you). On this venue, however, I will always be honest with you and tell you what I think and believe. I am sorry that you and Btru2u felt offended. Would you rather have me praise your prophet when I really do not have any respect for him ? Hypocrisy and Takkya is out of question for me here. There is no other place where we can exchange freely as we have been here in Yalibnan, and this is priceless for me. Only with honest civilized exchanges that we can reach out to each other. Exercising takyya leads to no where. The only problem that I can see here is that our interpretation of respect and tolerance is not the same, since if I do not respect Mohammad and say why I do not respect him, you feel disrespected; While if you do not respect Jesus, I do not care or feel disrespected. Same thing with tolerance: Muslims are widely tolerated in the western world and christian societies in which I live and share these values of tolerance, while christians (native ones) are not tolerated in muslim countries and treated as second class citizens and called names like pigs and monkeys, and harrassed and killed often just because of their religion. Who is more tolerant than who ?

          6. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I think he gave it to you Constantin … ‘What Would Jesus Do’ … the basic question to ask when undecided about pulling a trigger, I suppose. WWJD.
            I am sure it’s not ‘Wild Women Jerking Democrats’. Or ‘Wahabi Wigs Jump Donkeys’ …. or anything like that. Although I agree Acronyms can be a real pain in the ass sometimes …. largely invented to save ink in newspapers.

          7. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            Thank you for the clarification 🙂

          8. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            I really don’t like this conversation, but I feel I have to reply again. I was never offended by your comments. I’m not very religious, and I couldn’t care less. I was just pointing out to you the inaccuracies in your first comment and why mutual respect is needed when it comes to religion. Also, nobody said you have to praise “my” prophet, just respect peoples wishes to praise and follow him. Like respecting the Sabbath in an orthodox Jewish community or respecting the fact that they don’t believe in Jesus as god or prophet.

            Lets not begin with the Christians tolerate this and that nonsense. Christians don’t have a moral high ground when it comes to abuses committed in the name of religion. I could begin to list all the atrocities committed by Christians and Christian nations, but I’m sure you have heard of them before. Some old and some new.

        2. Constantin7 Avatar
          Constantin7

          Btru2u, I am not a hater at all, especially to muslims, but I am a provoker for sure. I want to shake the muslims with my arguments, maybe someone will start to use his brains and start question things ??? You see, Mohammad for you is the greatest man of all time, but just answer me why ? What good this man did for you to believe that he is the greatest man of all time ? All the miracles that he pretends he did (including the writing of the Koran, since originally he was illiterate) is all his word against others (like the miracle of spliting of the moon, or the miracle of flying to Jerusalem, etc…) nobody witnessed any of these miracles. I am not going to repeat all the killing and sex your prophet did and have, since you see all these actions very “fine and holy”. I am sorry I will never respect your prophet, not after what I learned about his life and what he did and what he taught his followers to do (all the killing and takfeer happening these days), and cannot understand your blindness in this respect. Yes, the truth will be revealed and nothing will be hidden for anyone who does wrong, whether muslim, christian, or from any other creed or religion, and the truth is out there about Mohammad and you just don’t want to see it / admit it / question it / or doubt it. Your choice….

          1. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Dear o dear constantine i understand you trying to shake the tree to see what happens but why do you keep falling in the same mistake and landing yourself in the same constant(ine) situation ;-). I assure next time if you shake the tree more pleasantly and record and calculate how you want to shake it you may end up with a more pleasant outcome.
            Those who avoid complaint open the way for happiness[abubakr]r.a
            I used to think my muslim community was closed minded but if its ok with you constantine am i allowed to be a muslim and love allah and his messenger? Without being “shaken” to doubt myself or question myself?Ppsssht whose the one preaching hate?
            Oh but your right about one thing since your all about honesty if you were infront of me and said to me what you have written i probably would kill you no doubt.
            ALLAHUAKBAR
            ALLAHUAKBAR
            ALLAHUAKBAR

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Oh tsk. That seems unreasonable. I better make a call ….
            ‘Allo? Akbar?? … Allo??? …. (Damn Leb-Phone system ….)

          3. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            been sitting on the sidelines waiting to take a cheap shot and bicker like a school girl.?? Allah yehdik. Today you are schoolgirl 5th tomorrow you maybe 3amo 5th or jedo 5th i dont know with you buddy. It took you 16min to be on my *been warned* list 😉

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Well, sorry if I’m slow … hehehe … fiddling with other things at same time.
            Dishes are next …. gotta keep the glasses clean. :-))
            BTW .. (hate acronyms) … BBC has a couple of good articles today .. one on Egypt possibilities. A guy named ‘Butt’ …. no jokes intended. 🙂

      2. man-o-war Avatar
        man-o-war

        Constantin,

        “Would you marry your daughter at 6, at 9 at 12 at 15 to any man (let alone to a man in the 50s) ?” I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re thinking with a 21st century mindset. The prophet lived during the 7th century, these types of marriage practices were common, and not only in the Arabian peninsula. Most of the time it was a matter of politics.

        Also, from what I know, the prophet did not know how to read or write. I suggest you do a little more unbiased research before bashing a person that hundreds of millions worship and respect. You have a right to follow whatever religion, but show a little more respect.

        I do agree that the intolerance Islamic nations show other religions is a shame. However, I think eating a ham sandwich during Ramadan on the street in front of fasting Muslims shows little to no class. Its just disrespectful. I don’t think that person deserves prison time or getting beat up (although you may be asking for a kick in the a$$). Its similar to Jerusalem on the Sabbath, what do you think would happen if you decided to drive a car/use cell phone/watch TV in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood? You will probably get stoned/harassed until you left. Its about respect and partly about avoiding trouble.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          We all understand the ‘When living in Rome, do as the Romans’ line from ancient times. 😉 The problem, eventually, for the Romans was in thinking they owned and should be controlling the ‘world’, and to have all of it feeling that it lived in Rome. Even if it didn’t.
          They couldn’t get agreement on the culture bits – even if having a hot bath and an olive-oil-rub every day was a wonderful concept. 😉
          Eventually because of the ‘heavy-hands’, and experience living under their ‘laws’ – especially ones made by later despotic Caesars – even those who admired Roman abilities came to hate Rome and anything connected with it. The Mongol Hordes, who may have well-considered the baths too, just threw out the bathwater instead … along with everything else.
          Now it’s the same problem. People just can’t admit that, whether the neighbour prefers ‘Pork n Beans’ or ‘Goat n Beans’, it really doesn’t matter. It’s the BEANS that are of importance. !! AND we try to keep both the goats and the pigs from eating them until we have had our fill – not wanting to be out-eaten by mere animals – and one way to do that is add the animal to the pot.
          (I don’t recall God handing out recipes for the flavourings … but even if you are a creationist you simply also just KNOW the beans are one of the more nourishing things that come from any garden – along with apples, of course.)
          😉 Now consider … in 2013 with the ‘advanced human’.
          IF you mix a whole pile of ‘different beans’ together, with a little oil and vinegar-wine, you get just about ALL that is necessary for life, except a few things from the apple. EVEN the gas, for god’s sake. 😉
          And yet, you just know that if the VEGAN BELIEF came from ‘the west’, everyone will dump on it for only that reason, and simply throw the extra beans to the goats and pigs, while fighting over which flavours the beans better.
          Humans are so stupid about eating with ‘class’.
          (And ‘some’ still must hate Romans after 2000 years, because they don’t think a hot shower and a good ‘oil-rub’ are beneficial either. Weird. ;-)))

        2. Constantin7 Avatar
          Constantin7

          You are right man-o-war when you say: “….bashing a person that hundreds of millions worship and respect.” Yes you do worship a man called Mohammad !!!
          Because if I insult Allah in front of any muslim, this muslim would not even react, but if I insult Mohammad in front of any muslim, this muslim would beat me up or kill me, because Mohammad is much more important to you than Allah, because exactly you worship the man !!!! Muslims say that christian exercise “shirk”, this worship of Mohammad is the shirk itself, when you put a man as more important than God.

          1. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            Generalize much? I don’t know how you can tell what every Muslim would do in that situation. You’re making stuff up again. Maybe some fanatical Muslims would react in that way, but most I bet would just brush it off. They would see you as an intolerant disrespectful person and move on.

            Some would argue that Jesus was just a prophet and not God. So, in their eyes you too just worship a man. Jews don’t even consider Jesus a prophet, but just a simple trouble making man.

            Nobody knows what religion is the “right” religion. Lets just respect peoples sensitivities and pray to whomever you want. Unless, you as true bible thumping Christian likes to rile people up. Again I ask you WWJD?

  6. Respect is a two way street. Muslims respect Jesus(pbuh)so will christians now repect Mohammed (pbuh ).

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Only can only respect their recorded thoughts. Difficult to know or respect dead people.
      Mind you, some think they are the reincarnations …

    2. Constantin7 Avatar
      Constantin7

      Btru2u, the problem is that you always mix up muslims with Mohammad. The Pope’s message is to respect muslims (who did not do anything to be born muslims) and their freedom/choice to believe in Islam. You speak about a “2-way street” respect: Tell me if a Christian has the freedom in any Arab or muslim country other than Lebanon to exercise his religious rights freely ? Can we eat a sandwich in the street during Ramadan in Damascus ? Can I walk in a church in Baghdad and feel safe ? Can I ware my cross on my neck and show it and walk in Jeddah without being caught by the religious police and thrown in jail ? However, muslims can do whatever they want in any christian or western country without any social or official harrassment, and the law protects their freedom of choice and belief. This is what the Pope is talking about !!!
      As for Mohammad, you want me to respect this man ? Why ? Because he killed thousands and incited his followers to kill millions after him for 1400 years just to believe in him as Rassoul Allah ? Because he married 13 women (officially) and fornicated with hundreds of other women when he invaded tribes and stole they goods and women ? Because he wrote the Koran, which is full of contradictions, lies and incitments to hate and kill the other who does not believe in what Mohammad preached ? Because in his fifties he married a 6 years old girl (Aicha) ? Would you marry your daughter at 6, at 9 at 12 at 15 to any man (let alone to a man in the 50s) ?
      No my friend we do not respect a man who lived like Mohammad, in fact it is our duty and the duty of any human being to despise and reject Mohammad and his obnoxious and criminal actions which have nothing to do with God and contradict the simplest Human values that we share with all humanity. Any uneducated simple muslim would not do the atriocities that Mohammad did and has more human values than the prophet of Islam, and you want me to respect him. Wake up man !!! Wake up your prophet is just a criminal who forced himself on the world by the sword.

      1. You are a hater Constantine, and a provoker. Your attempt to misrepresent the greatest man of all time , is in vain. Your insults are your doom in this life and in the hereafter. You will perish in your rage.
        Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) only spoke Greatness of her husband in the highest exemplary terms. she was not a victim but an honoured gift from God and her father . She had an extraordinary memory and recorded over 5000 hadith of the prophets actions and saying. Is this the actions of a victim. Unlike the countless victims that the representatives of the CROSS , ABUSE , MOLEST, AND DEEPLY SCARR. Truth always comes out because the victims speak up. So don’t pretend to respect muslims on one hand and insult their deepest love on the other. I encourage anyone with doubt to read the sealed nectar, the life of the prophet. or listen to Anwar AL Awlakis cds ‘The life of Mohammed’ and ‘The life of Abu BAKR”. WORK THAT WERE SO INFLUENCIAL, THAT USA KILLED HIM FOR IT.

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          If you are upset with what Constantin said there is no need for you to speak ill of the representatives of the cross and put the cross in the line of molest and abuse…
          No religion has done right by the human race and you know it… Just take a look at Syria, I think Mohammed is spinning in his grave.

          1. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            Religion can make people do some evil things. No doubt about that. However, Constantin attacked and insulted the prophet. If Btru2u responded in a similar fashion he would have attacked and insulted Jesus. Instead he attacked the representatives of the cross. We all know individuals that represent Islam or the church can’t be controlled and their behavior should not be indicative of an entire religion.

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Ah yes Man-o … ‘Let him who is without sin cast the first stone’.
            One of the better thoughts in a ‘good book’. 😉

          3. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            Man-o-war I don’t care if you or Btru2u attack or insult Jesus, this is your problem with HIM, not with me. Jesus did not appoint me as his lawyer :-), Jesus does not need humans to defend him. But I will always preach Jesus to the whole world as the Son of God and the Messiah, whether you approve it or not.

          4. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            I have no reason to attack Jesus or any other prophet. I was just pointing out how your comment is full of inaccuracies and shows your intolerance. Its fine that you don’t mind people bashing or insulting Jesus and spreading lies about him. There are millions of Christians that would not like it and therefore respectful people don’t do it.

            “I will always preach Jesus to the whole world as the Son of God and the Messiah”, thats fine, but that’s not what you were doing in your comment. Instead of following WWJD, you acted out of hatred and intolerance. I think you should delve deeper into your religion. Maybe you can learn some respect and tolerance.

          5. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            I can assure you that I have no hatred to any body. My rejection is against one man only and his teachings. What is WWJD ??? (Sorry I am not as informed as you). On this venue, however, I will always be honest with you and tell you what I think and believe. I am sorry that you and Btru2u felt offended. Would you rather have me praise your prophet when I really do not have any respect for him ? Hypocrisy and Takkya is out of question for me here. There is no other place where we can exchange freely as we have been here in Yalibnan, and this is priceless for me. Only with honest civilized exchanges that we can reach out to each other. Exercising takyya leads to no where. The only problem that I can see here is that our interpretation of respect and tolerance is not the same, since if I do not respect Mohammad and say why I do not respect him, you feel disrespected; While if you do not respect Jesus, I do not care or feel disrespected. Same thing with tolerance: Muslims are widely tolerated in the western world and christian societies in which I live and share these values of tolerance, while christians (native ones) are not tolerated in muslim countries and treated as second class citizens and called names like pigs and monkeys, and harrassed and killed often just because of their religion. Who is more tolerant than who ?

          6. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            I think he gave it to you Constantin … ‘What Would Jesus Do’ … the basic question to ask when undecided about pulling a trigger, I suppose. WWJD.
            I am sure it’s not ‘Wild Women Jerking Democrats’. Or ‘Wahabi Wigs Jump Donkeys’ …. or anything like that. Although I agree Acronyms can be a real pain in the ass sometimes …. largely invented to save ink in newspapers.

          7. Constantin7 Avatar
            Constantin7

            Thank you for the clarification 🙂

          8. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            I really don’t like this conversation, but I feel I have to reply again. I was never offended by your comments. I’m not very religious, and I could care less. I was just pointing out to you the inaccuracies in your first comment and why mutual respect is needed when it comes to religion. Also, nobody said you have to praise “my” prophet, just respect peoples wishes to praise and follow him. Like respecting the Sabbath in an orthodox Jewish community or respecting the fact that they don’t believe in Jesus as god or prophet.

            Lets not begin with the Christians tolerate this and that nonsense. Christians don’t have a moral high ground when it comes to abuses committed in the name of religion. I could begin to list all the atrocities committed by Christians and Christian nations, but I’m sure you have heard of them before. Some old and some new.

        2. Constantin7 Avatar
          Constantin7

          Btru2u, I am not a hater at all, especially to muslims, but I am a provoker for sure. I want to shake the muslims with my arguments, maybe someone will start to use his brains and start question things ??? You see, Mohammad for you is the greatest man of all time, but just answer me why ? What good this man did for you to believe that he is the greatest man of all time ? All the miracles that he pretends he did (including the writing of the Koran, since originally he was illiterate) is all his word against others (like the miracle of spliting of the moon, or the miracle of flying to Jerusalem, etc…) nobody witnessed any of these miracles. I am not going to repeat all the killing and sex your prophet did and have, since you see all these actions very “fine and holy”. I am sorry I will never respect your prophet, not after what I learned about his life and what he did and what he taught his followers to do (all the killing and takfeer happening these days), and cannot understand your blindness in this respect. Yes, the truth will be revealed and nothing will be hidden for anyone who does wrong, whether muslim, christian, or from any other creed or religion, and the truth is out there about Mohammad and you just don’t want to see it / admit it / question it / or doubt it. Your choice….

          1. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            Dear o dear constantine i understand you trying to shake the tree to see what happens but why do you keep falling in the same mistake and landing yourself in the same constant(ine) situation ;-). I assure next time if you shake the tree more pleasantly and record and calculate how you want to shake it you may end up with a more pleasant outcome.
            Those who avoid complaint open the way for happiness[abubakr]r.a
            I used to think my muslim community was closed minded but if its ok with you constantine am i allowed to be a muslim and love allah and his messenger? Without being “shaken” to doubt myself or question myself?Ppsssht whose the one preaching hate?
            Oh but your right about one thing since your all about honesty if you were infront of me and said to me what you have written i probably would kill you no doubt.
            ALLAHUAKBAR
            ALLAHUAKBAR
            ALLAHUAKBAR

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Oh tsk. That seems unreasonable. I better make a call ….
            ‘Allo? Akbar?? … Allo??? …. (Damn Leb-Phone system ….)

          3. Reasonableman Avatar
            Reasonableman

            been sitting on the sidelines waiting to take a cheap shot and bicker like a school girl.?? Allah yehdik. Today you are schoolgirl 5th tomorrow you maybe 3amo 5th or jedo 5th i dont know with you buddy. It took you 16min to be on my *been warned* list 😉

          4. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Well, sorry if I’m slow … hehehe … fiddling with other things at same time.
            Dishes are next …. gotta keep the glasses clean. :-))

      2. man-o-war Avatar
        man-o-war

        Constantin,

        “Would you marry your daughter at 6, at 9 at 12 at 15 to any man (let alone to a man in the 50s) ?” I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re thinking with a 21st century mindset. The prophet lived during the 7th century, these types of marriage practices were common, and not only in the Arabian peninsula. Most of the time it was a matter of politics.

        Also, from what I know, the prophet did not know how to read or write. I suggest you do a little more unbiased research before bashing a person that hundreds of millions worship and respect. You have a right to follow whatever religion, but show a little more respect.

        I do agree that the intolerance Islamic nations show other religions is a shame. However, I think eating a ham sandwich during Ramadan on the street in front of fasting Muslims shows little to no class. Its just disrespectful. I don’t think that person deserves prison time or getting beat up (although you may be asking for a kick in the a$$). Its similar to Jerusalem on the Sabbath, what do you think would happen if you decided to drive a car/use cell phone/watch TV in an orthodox Jewish neighborhood? You will probably get stoned/harassed until you left. Its about respect and partly about avoiding trouble.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          We all understand the ‘When living in Rome, do as the Romans’ line from ancient times. 😉 The problem, eventually, for the Romans was in thinking they owned and should be controlling the ‘world’, and to have all of it feeling that it lived in Rome. Even if it didn’t.
          They couldn’t get agreement on the culture bits – even if having a hot bath and an olive-oil-rub every day was a wonderful concept. 😉
          Eventually because of the ‘heavy-hands’, and experience living under their ‘laws’ – especially ones made by later despotic Caesars – even those who admired Roman abilities came to hate Rome and anything connected with it. The Mongol Hordes, who may have well-considered the baths too, just threw out the bathwater instead … along with everything else.
          Now it’s the same problem. People just can’t admit that whether the neighbour prefers ‘Pork n Beans’ or ‘Goat n Beans’, it really doesn’t matter. It’s the BEANS that are of importance. !! AND we try to keep both the goats and the pigs from eating them until we have had our fill – not wanting to be out-eaten by mere animals – and one way to do that is add the animal to the pot.
          (I don’t recall God handing out recipes for the flavourings … but even if you are a creationist you simply also just KNOW the beans are one of the more nourishing things that come from any garden – along with apples, of course.)
          😉 Now consider … in 2013 with the ‘advanced human’.
          IF you mix a whole pile of ‘different beans’ together, with a little oil and vinegar-wine, you get just about ALL that is necessary for life, except a few things from the apple. EVEN the gas, for god’s sake. 😉
          And yet, you just know that if the VEGAN BELIEF came from ‘the west’, everyone will dump on it for only that reason, and simply throw the extra beans to the goats and pigs, while fighting over which flavours the beans better.
          Humans are so stupid about eating with ‘class’.
          (And ‘some’ still must hate Romans after 2000 years, because they don’t think a hot shower and a good ‘oil-rub’ are beneficial either. Weird. ;-)))

        2. Constantin7 Avatar
          Constantin7

          You are right man-o-war when you say: “….bashing a person that hundreds of millions worship and respect.” Yes you do worship a man called Mohammad !!!
          Because if I insult Allah in front of any muslim, this muslim would not even react, but if I insult Mohammad in front of any muslim, this muslim would beat me up or kill me, because Mohammad is much more important to you than Allah, because exactly you worship the man !!!! Muslims say that christian exercise “shirk”, this worship of Mohammad is the shirk itself, when you put a man as more important than God.

          1. man-o-war Avatar
            man-o-war

            Generalize much? I don’t know how you can tell what every Muslim would do in that situation. You’re making stuff up again. Maybe some fanatical Muslims would react in that way, but most I bet would just brush it off. They would see you as an intolerant disrespectful person and move on.

            Some would argue that Jesus was just a prophet and not God. So, in their eyes you too just worship a man. Jews don’t even consider Jesus a prophet, but just a simple trouble making man.

            Nobody knows what religion is the “right” religion. Lets just respect peoples sensitivities and pray to whomever you want. Unless, you as true bible thumping Christian likes to rile people up. Again I ask you WWJD?

  7. You are a hater Constantine, and a provoker. Your attempt to misrepresent the greatest man of all time , is in vain. Your insults are your doom in this life and in the hereafter. You will perish in your rage.
    Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) only spoke Greatness of her husband in the highest exemplary terms. she was not a victim but an honoured gift from God and her father . She had an extraordinary memory and recorded over 5000 hadith of the prophets actions and saying. Is this the actions of a victim. Unlike the countless victims that the representatives of the CROSS , ABUSE , MOLEST, AND DEEPLY SCARR. Truth always comes out because the victims speak up. So don’t pretend to respect muslims on one hand and insult their deepest love on the other. I encourage anyone with doubt to read the sealed nectar, the life of the prophet. or listen to Anwar AL Awlakis cds ‘The life of Mohammed’ and ‘The life of Abu BAKR”. CD’S THAT WERE SO INFLUENCIAL THAT USA KILLED HIM FOR IT.

  8. You are a hater Constantine, and a provoker. Your attempt to misrepresent the greatest man of all time , is in vain. Your insults are your doom in this life and in the hereafter. You will perish in your rage.
    Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) only spoke Greatness of her husband in the highest exemplary terms. she was not a victim but an honoured gift from God and her father . She had an extraordinary memory and recorded over 5000 hadith of the prophets actions and saying. Is this the actions of a victim. Unlike the countless victims that the representatives of the CROSS , ABUSE , MOLEST, AND DEEPLY SCARR. Truth always comes out because the victims speak up. So don’t pretend to respect muslims on one hand and insult their deepest love on the other. I encourage anyone with doubt to read the sealed nectar, the life of the prophet. or listen to Anwar AL Awlakis cds ‘The life of Mohammed’ and ‘The life of Abu BAKR”. CD’S THAT WERE SO INFLUENCIAL THAT USA KILLED HIM FOR IT.

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