Ya Libnan

Kidnapped Shiites: Hezbollah urges calm, Hariri condemns

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The leader of Lebanon’s Hezbollah militant group has appealed for calm following the abduction of 12 Lebanese Shiites in Syria and former PM condemned the abduction and called for their immediate release.

Security officials say Syrian rebels kidnapped the men Tuesday as they returned from a religious pilgrimage. The abductions immediately sparked tensions in Lebanon. Shiites in Beirut’s southern section took to the streets and burned tires in protest.

In a televised speech, Hezbollah’s Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah appealed for calm. He warned his followers against carrying out any revenge attacks on Syrians.

Hariri urges their release

Former Lebanese PM and Future Movement leader MP Saad Hariri condemned the abduction of 13 Lebanese Shia men in Syria and called for their immediate release, according to a statement issued by Hariri’s press office.

“We condemn the kidnapping of our Lebanese brothers in Syria no matter what party is behind the abduction, and we call for their immediate release,” Hariri said.

He also voiced his solidarity with the families of the kidnapped men.

“The kidnappers must know that the Lebanese people are united in this case. [Lebanese parties] deal with this issue as a Lebanese national cause,” he added.

AP, Now Lebanon

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88 responses to “Kidnapped Shiites: Hezbollah urges calm, Hariri condemns”

  1. JS Bach Avatar
    JS Bach

    Why should Hariri condemn? He even called Berri ta “yittamman” 3layon. Why? Did Nasrallah condemn his implanted thug in Tarik el Jdideh a few days ago? Did Nasrallah condemn the invasion of Beirut? Did Nasrallah condemn the torture and murder in Syria or did he call the victims terrorists? Until when ya Hariri you’re gonna keep bending over backwards? Until when are you going to continue kissing ass? Khlosna ba2a! If you don’t have balls to stand up to people who have balls, then resign and let someone else take the job!

    1. breakthemould Avatar
      breakthemould

       That is nasty what you say. The action must be condemned by every member of the human race. First they are Lebanese, Hariri is one of the most prominent Lebanese and is a former Prime Minister. You should give up thinking personal politics and rise up to the seriousness of the issue at hand. It does not matter what your religious beliefs are if you or your mate or relative son, daughter, wife etc being tortured. It is a human issue. These pilgrims are not uniformed soldiers kidnapped to exchange with the enemy’s soldiers in a battle. These are pilgrims for God’s sake. Civilians like you and me. If we remain in this cycle of violence we just exhibit our 7th century politics in 21st. Wake up, things have changed since then by a thousand miles. All of the above applies to all religious factors including yous and mine and my neighbours and their cat.

      1. JS Bach Avatar
        JS Bach

        Hi breakthemould,

        Please let us have a constructive discussion. I urge you to not qualify my plain opinion as “nasty” or anything else. And please don’t make factual assumptions about where my views are coming from.

        I happen to have no beliefs of any nature—religious or not. I don’t believe in belief. And I have no political belonging or personal politics. I have a simple cultural belonging like any of us do when you subtract the religious and political baggage.

        While my views might seem harsh at the pure Buddhist/Kumbaya levels, I am speaking from a larger context and the imminent reality that you cannot keep playing Jesus Christ and turn the other cheek and be a sitting duck while your own countrymen are out to devour you alive and are hijacking your country and livelihood on a daily basis. There is no room for compassion when it is never given back. There is no room for respect when it is never given back. There is no room for cry me a river when it is never reciprocated. Enough is enough.

        The people of Beirut received the Shiites with open arms in 2006. What’s the next thing they do? They invade the damn city and kill and pillage and destroy with impunity. If Hariri wants to keep acting like a freaking idiot, believe me his people are going to be disgruntled with his ever-so-gentle boyish behavior and will start demanding some more balls—if they haven’t already. In fact, there are reports that even his bosses in KSA are starting to be disgruntled with his non-approach approach.

        1. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          Who said it’s your country you are talking like you are Lebanese and Shiites are foreigners why not the other way around?

        2. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           Where is the electricity in Lebanon your Harriri the Zionists agent doesn’t want the Lebanese people to have electricity until they make peace with the Zionists regime and we keep getting food poisoned because our food is not refrigerated!!!!

        3. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          Shiites are the majority like it or not we are all Lebanese and stand together to free Palestine end of story no room for Zionist agents.

        4. breakthemould Avatar
          breakthemould

          Hi J S Bach,
          I understand some of the sentiments in your message but not all. The facts are we are divided and at this rate we shall remain divided for ever and weak. We have to stop thinking of ourselves as belonging to this or that party. We need all of us to learn the art of resolving matters peacefully. If we disagree then it is the most natural thing in the world to have differences. It is how we resolve these differences that is the issue. What does having balls mean? let us assume it is left to you or to the master who pays the piper to have one leader with balls. What will he do? buy arms? fight back with arms. What good would this do? win and rule the day? Then the other party as you would expect there will be another party will be armed more. How does this stop? and what good will this do to our kids and grand children. Sure, we can have the courage to fight back but not with arms. It is fundamental that a government regardless of colour has the duty of protecting it’s citizens. And this is what it is all about. Kidnapped, even if it is one Lebanese, in Syria or Argentine our leaders must give him or her all the support no matter what religion he or she is. That is citizenship the minute they carry the passport then the government have a duty to protect. And furthermore the citizen has obligations to his country too.That is what we have to teach our kids if we like to have a good country to be proud off and not have a huge number of our citizens move abroad to seek a better life. The need personal security is paramount in any civilized society.

        5. Crossed Avatar
          Crossed

          I never advocated for the invasion of Israel. It sounds like you’re reading off a script. Try to read what I said first before replying like that.

          I also didn’t ask for your children to enlist in some group and begin fighting israel. Opposition to racism and oppression doesn’t always come in the form of violence.

          So having a comm. network and legal arms means it’s a state within a state? I don’t think so. Hezbollah is not giving orders to anyone, nor are they using this network externally. So it doesn’t concearn anyone outside of the group. Its a tool to communicate between themselves that they pay to operate. You wanna be a dictator and ban comm. networks in the country? go for it, best of luck.

          I also am not debating israel. But if you haven’t noticed, the world is full of conflict. God bless our army, but they are not capable of protecting us. Are we just gonna write poems to stop a possible invasion? Or are you able to see in the future and tell us an army isn’t needed?

          I also didn’t wed any fates. Our country has a foriegn policy. No peace with israel until a Palestine exists. Because “if one is occupied, all are occupied”. And I agree with this 100%. Palestinians are suffering, but because of political problems between Fatah and Hamas, we should just ignore them? No. If you don’t care about other families, much like your own, thats cool you do that. But others such as myself would rather live in a county with some sort of ethics and its own free will.

          You assume I take a side in Syria, or that I’m a shi’ite. I won’t bother with this.

          Check your stats, more than half the country supports this stance about Israel, Pal.

          In conclusion, Lebanon should not make peace with israel until a Palestine exists. Hezbollah’s comm. network and arms are legal under the state, and I believe a civilized state includes being ready to thwart an invasion, be it from israel, china, or martians.

      2. wargame1 Avatar
        wargame1

        First of all you need to find out who these 13 shia really are and what they were doing in that war zone. If you find that they are from Hezbushaitan went to help Assad to kill Syrian people then will you condemn the abduction or will you praise for the abduction? 

        If the Free Syrian army find then as trained solders fighting them then they wont give a damn of those pilgrim theory. All they will do is to exchange some of their captured solders or simply execute them under a tree. Therefore we need to find out what were those 13 shia pilgrim were up to. 

      3. dateam Avatar
        dateam

        fyi..wargame1….they were travelling on buses with their families….gunmen stopped the bus seperated women and children from men and took the men…their families have arrived safely in lebanon…that was from daily star a few hours ago….does that change your opinion…we need to stop assuming and think….

    2. Constantin7 Avatar
      Constantin7

      I do not agree with you JS Bach. Hariri’s reaction is excellent and shows statemanship. These kidnapped shiaa are LEBANESE first and foremost, and kidnapped in a foreign country, and every Lebanese politician should denounce this act and put pressure on Syria or whoever to release them immediately unharmed. This is not an issue of Sunni vs. Shiaa, this is an issue of Lebanese vs. non-Lebanese, and any logical Lebanese person would side ALWAYS with his Lebanese citizen and take the position that Hariri took. Hariri is not bending over, Hariri is being human and Lebanese and just logical. Your reaction is not logical and is based on the high emotions of the prior days’ events.

      1. JS Bach Avatar
        JS Bach

        Greetings Constantin, and thanks for your reply,

        First off if we’re going to have a constructive discussion, please don’t say in a factual manner where my reaction is coming from. I’ll give you the “not logical” because that’s an opinion, but you really don’t know what my reaction is based upon. Here’s what it’s really based upon:

        I am with you 100% on the human front. But even Ghandi, the world’s foremost pacifist, believed that pacifism does not work all the time, and that sometimes you *have* to stand up for yourself and defend your positions or even attack.

        You’ve got an armed entity to the teeth in Lebanon called HA that hasn’t condemned any freaking harm that happened to Hariri or his people for the past several years. Not only that but they’ve invaded the capital and attacked and killed and destroyed. They don’t give a crap about the 12,000 people that were killed/tortured/mutilated over the past year and even participated in the crackdown. Even if you are the most progressive, liberal, open-minded, non-sectarian, secular, pacifist, humanist Lebanese, it remains a fact that that entity *is* treating you 24 hours a day on a sectarian basis and is ready to jump and devour you alive at any moment—as proven by its own track record, not our imagination. And what? You’re gonna sit there and be Jesus Christ and let them have you for lunch? You’re gonna cry me a river when a bunch of their own are kidnapped? Why? Hell why? These kidnapped “Lebanese” are no more special than the 12,000 people that they participated in killing, nor our whole country they’re holding hostage. 

        When these kidnapped people or their leaders start giving a shit about Lebanon, and less about Syria and Iran, let’s call them Lebanese and start having compassionate, Kumbaya, Buddhist feelings towards them. Until them, I am for Hamorabi’s approach. Hariri’s “human” approach has not worked, has not made a dent of difference since his father was killed, and will not. It has in fact made matters much worse because it gave HA free unchallenged range to do whatever the heck they please.

        I’m sorry I can’t be compassionate when the other party is not compassionate towards me and is hijacking my country and attacking me on a daily basis. My point of view is also about humanity and survival and not letting the thugs take over and determine my fate and yours.

        Now, on the individual level, of course these 12 people are innocent pilgrims who have families and wives and children and parents and siblings. Unfortunately they happen to belong to the larger context that almost nullifies their own humanity.

        1. Crossed Avatar
          Crossed

          “You’ve got an armed entity to the teeth in Lebanon called HA”
          When S.Hariri was PM he signed off on legalizing their arms under the state.

          “hasn’t condemned any freaking harm that happened to Hariri or his people for the past several years.”
          Simply not true. HA have condemned anything that would lead to civil war or strife. It’s also a part of their manifesto.

          “they’ve invaded the capital and attacked and killed and destroyed.”
          You’re talking about may 2008. In that case the government at the time was legally invalid. Therefore, when the “government” attempted to to tear down HA’s comm. network, it was an illegal move done outside of the authority of the state. Also, it’s funny how you fault HA for defending their network with arms, what do you think was in the hands of the thugs who tried to illegally tear down the network?

          You seem to ramble on about how supporters of HA are inhuman. That’s your own view I guess, however un-Lebanese it may sound.

          In my Lebanon, I believe in defending our land and our people. I believe that if anyone in the region, especially our Palestinian brothers, are occupied than we are all occupied. No one is free if one of us is not. HA has the best answer to this. To maintain arms, with popular support, in case of an invasion.

          Who sounds inhuman now?

        2. JS Bach Avatar
          JS Bach

          Crossed,

          In your mind, I do of course. Your premise is that the arms are legal and the communications network is legal. Therefore the state-in-a-state is legal. Therefore police off-limits is legal. All of that why? To defend the country of course. Defend it against what? You guys need to remove that fantasy called Israel from your minds. We are not going to debate Israel’s morality or crimes or legality of existence right now, so please don’t drag us there. That is not the point. But Israel as it stands today has zero interest in annexing an inch of Lebanese land or expanding their state into Lebanon. Disagree with this as you shall.

          Your other point which I utterly reject is marrying my fate and the fate of my country to Palestine or any other entity. My life and my children are not your property to mortgage for Palestine’s liberation. The Palestinians themselves had many a chance to fix their situation and they blew all their chances out of the water, one at a time. The Palestinians themselves clearly have no frickin’ interest in fixing their own situation. Fatah and Hamas have murdered and shelled and kidnapped and tortured each other for years. You gonna tell me that you, Mr., care about the Palestinian situation more than they do themselves? Aha. Yeah, right. Nonsense away my friend. How come the Palestinian Sunnis are your “brothers” while the Syrian Sunnis fighting for their freedom are terrorists? Assad has done to the Syrian Sunnis what  Israel hasn’t done to the Shiites in South Lebanon.

          Who told you the Palestinians are my brothers? Who told you if they are occupied I’m occupied? Who told you we’re either all free or all imprisoned? If that works for you it doesn’t work for me or the other half of the country buddy. You want to live a life of jihad and struggle, go right ahead. Split the goddamn country, have your South and fight Israel away! You already have the mini-country setup anyway, so what the hell is the difference?

          Your friend Moe below says “we are all Lebanese and stand together to free Palestine end of story”. You see, his goal and whole reason of existence in life is to liberate Palestine. Then he whines that he wants electricity because his food is rotting. Make up your goddamn minds. You can’t have it both ways. Do you want a civilized modern state (with electricity)? Or do you want to liberate Palestine? You cannot have a civilized state if your agenda and resources are focused elsewhere.

          Good day.

        3. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Good discussions people. Bach has done a good job on two articles here.
           Crossed is similar in his thinking, as are many here; but for the last shot (below) about inhumanity … who says maintaining arms leads to freedom and good government? And frankly, the biggest fear of invasion now is from the north-east, not from the south. Where have the defenders of women and children been this last two weeks??
          One could argue that Israel is aggressive, yet with all their weapons they still manage to have a government that works for most of the time … something to think on. And I don’t believe Nastyrallah becoming a dictator is going to do it for Lebanon.
          IF allowed another election, everyone better figure out something better to vote for. ALL around.
          It’s time to stop mucking around in the histories, forget the histrionics, and decide a future that will work, FOR a free and growing Lebanon – or the people are simply doomed to repeat history …. ad nauseaum.

    3. Moe2000 Avatar
      Moe2000

       You’re a idiot Hezbollah has not attacked anyone he only opposes the Zionist agents in Lebanon. Harriri and his thugs have stole billions from the Lebanese people the most corrupt politicians on the planet him and his father pocketed billions and with seniora. Hezbollah put a end to there Zionist sharade when they went after his tela line because they where ordered to do so by the Zionists entity.

      1. yalibnan Avatar
        yalibnan

        Please lets keep this discussion civil and refrain from any personal  attacks

      2. wargame1 Avatar
        wargame1

        Hezbollah is the Zionist agent along with there Iranian Satanic regime. There are recorded statement of those Iranian leaders that they helped USA and Israel in Iraq and Afghanistan invasion. >Consequently you have there the Shia lackey of Iran and USA in both of these countries. 

        Now in Libya according to the own admission of Iranian foreign Minister they are helping the Libyan rebel i.e. NATO rats. Ex Hezbollah secretary Mr. Subhi Tufaeli said Hezbollah is Israeli border guard and they prevent any attack on Israel. 

        Now stop this nonsense and do not accuse any one as Zionist agent other than Hezbollah and Iranian regime. If you play this Zionist card every now and then the real story will be exposed. Do not go for pilgrim in to a war zone because you are already a suspect of Assad helper by the free Syrian Army.

        1. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          People visit the Shrines in Damascus Iraq and Iran all the time my family does also they are the shrines of the prophet mohameds family, The Syrian people have a right for freedom no one can deny them that but it’s not the right time for Syria. The zionist agenda aims to install a puppet dictator how they did in Yemen a few weeks back one man elections for Syria and Yemen Zionist puppets.

        2. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           War is coming soon Israel will attack Iran soon if not this summer soon after especially if there is no deal tomorrow in Baghdad Assad will join this war and depending who is elected in Egypt will also join.

        3. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          This summer we will find out. The goal is to remove Bashar and install a puppet before the attack on Iran Bashar will open a front from the Golan HA will open from the south. When 2 Arab nations are at war with the Zionist regime the rest must help. Russia and China have stated they will help Iran.

        4. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           The House of Saud and the GCC have the U.S bases not Syria and Iran, The house of Saud helped invade Iraq and caused one millions deaths twice. The house of Saud supply 75% of the fighters and bombs in Iraq to blow up the Iraqi people to blow up the Mosques in  Najaf Basra and Certain neighborhoods. Harriri is a puppet of the house of Saud the puppets installed by the U.K 100 years ago.

        5. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           You need to wake up my friend and see who really is feeding you the propaganda. Look at RT news i think they are nonbiased news in the Middle East or even Asiatimes.

      3. deptyGod Avatar
        deptyGod

        yes yu goood mr

      4. deptyGod Avatar
        deptyGod

        no need help from wahabies mr 

        1. yazidi Avatar
          yazidi

          wahabies and salafis  because of faqihi farisi… did you get it or need help to unerstand

      5. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        So, Moe, What’s the right time for some freedom without death in Syria? When Nastyrallah says so?
        When is visiting a shrine more important than the lives of your family? Those prophetic shrines will be there for a while more, we can assume … why add the provocation of unwanted pilgrim-busses lurching over the broken roads to the picture of civil war there? Iran and Iraq need the tourists that bad? Take a plane.
        On the other hand, if losing a few of those ‘super-believers’ on either side helps set the whole place off, I guess you might as well pack a bus and claim the other guys did it – on a regular basis.
        Sure there’s propaganda everywhere, along with those little-detail-make-a-splash ‘news’ reports, but why feed the possibilities of making more? Anyone who goes into a war-zone, as wargame1 says to ‘go pilgrim’, is frankly off their nut. Talk to your family, please.
        Meanwhile, fouling the atmosphere with burning tires BY BOTH packs of idiots is not getting the real story out. Even the numbers have changed it seems. (And the Israelis aren’t doing that bit.)
        There’s a lot of puppets around lately, it seems to me, and their knee-jerk reactions to anything is drawing guns first and asking questions later, screwing up life for everyone because they think they are ‘the most supreme’.
         The theorists are happy when something seems to fit their moulding of all the events … for centuries it’s people trying to make the ‘great theory’ books come true that cause the biggest headaches. Can’t even get histories right any more … let alone inject some modern thinking into the mess.

      6. master09 Avatar
        master09

        YOU SAY …  Shiites are the majority like it or not we are all Lebanese and stand together to free Palestine end of story no room for Zionist agents.
        You sure are confused. No room for Zionist agents, no You would rather have a group of thugs who will drag Lebanon to war. THE RESISTANCE what the FU..K do the JEWS want from Lebanon. Well as long as there are groups like before when the PLO and now HA who threaten the JEWS the Lebanese  will continue to live in hell. PUT DOWN the weapons live them alone let the PAlestinians work the problem out and I  guarantee   you Lebanon will be a place called paradise…..  Instead of spending all this money on weapons how about feed the LEBANESE instead of having WAR ON THE MIND ALL THE TIME…..  NO HA never attack anyone, 2008 was not real just a dream rite….and ofcourse they did not start 2006 rite……?? YOU also think if Iran Syria AND Egypt join together agaist Isreal they have a chance, Damn you sure can dream. What you think EU, USA and the rest will sit and watch.. they will calpse the ME in 6 days…… you would like that yes, instead of wanting peace….??? Add a T and try the 1984 bottle and that mite bring the peace within you…

    4. dateam Avatar
      dateam

      maybe a pattern is starting to emerge here…humour me for a moment…the sunnis have been hit…now the shiites….maybe druze and christians are next? maybe certain people are starting to see a pattern emergerging aimed at dividing us…classic case of controlled chaos in order to conquer and divide???

    5. yazidi Avatar
      yazidi

      his excused PUSSY with capital letters….

  2. JS Bach Avatar
    JS Bach

    Why should Hariri condemn? He even called Berri ta “yittamman” 3layon. Why? Did Nasrallah condemn his implanted thug in Tarik el Jdideh a few days ago? Did Nasrallah condemn the invasion of Beirut? Did Nasrallah condemn the torture and murder in Syria or did he call the victims terrorists? Until when ya Hariri you’re gonna keep bending over backwards? Until when are you going to continue kissing ass? Khlosna ba2a! If you don’t have balls to stand up to people who have balls, then resign and let someone else take the job.

    1. breakthemould Avatar
      breakthemould

       That is nasty what you say. The action must be condemned by every member of the human race. First they are Lebanese, Hariri is one of the most prominent Lebanese and is a former Prime Minister. You should give up thinking personal politics and rise up to the seriousness of the issue at hand. It does not matter what your religious beliefs are if you or your mate or relative son, daughter, wife etc being tortured. It is a human issue. These pilgrims are not uniformed soldiers kidnapped to exchange with the enemy’s soldiers in a battle. These are pilgrims for God’s sake. Civilians like you and me. If we remain in this cycle of violence we just exhibit our 7th century politics in 21st. Wake up, things have changed since then by a thousand miles. All of the above applies to all religious factors including yous and mine and my neighbours and their cat.

      1. JS Bach Avatar
        JS Bach

        Hi breakthemould,

        Please let us have a constructive discussion. I urge you to not qualify my plain opinion as “nasty” or anything else. And please don’t make factual assumptions about where my views are coming from.

        I happen to have no beliefs of any nature—religious or not. I don’t believe in belief. And I have no political belonging or personal politics. I have a simple cultural belonging like any of us do when you subtract the religious and political baggage.

        While my views might seem harsh at the pure Buddhist/Kumbaya levels, I am speaking from a larger context and the imminent reality that you cannot keep playing Jesus Christ and turn the other cheek and be a sitting duck while your own countrymen are out to devour you alive and hijacking your country. There is no room for compassion when it is never given back. There is no room for respect when it is never given back. There is no room for cry me a river when it is never reciprocated. Enough is enough.

        The people of Beirut received the Shiites with open arms in 2006. What’s the next thing they do? They invade the damn city and kill and pillage and destroy with impunity. If Hariri wants to keep acting like a freaking idiot, believe me his people are going to be disgruntled with his ever-so-gentle boyish behavior and will start demanding some more balls—if they haven’t already. In fact, there are reports that even his bosses in KSA are starting to be disgruntled with his non-approach approach.

        1. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          Who said it’s your country you are talking like you are Lebanese and Shiites are foreigners why not the other way around?

        2. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           Where is the electricity in Lebanon your Harriri the Zionists agent doesn’t want the Lebanese people to have electricity until they make peace with the Zionists regime and we keep getting food poisoned because our food is not refrigerated!!!!

        3. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          Shiites are the majority like it or not we are all Lebanese and stand together to free Palestine end of story no room for Zionist agents.

        4. breakthemould Avatar
          breakthemould

          Hi J S Bach,
          I understand some of the sentiments in your message but not all. The facts are we are divided and at this rate we shall remain divided for ever and weak. We have to stop thinking of ourselves as belonging to this or that party. We need all of us to learn the art of resolving matters peacefully. If we disagree then it is the most natural thing in the world to have differences. It is how we resolve these differences that is the issue. What does having balls mean? let us assume it is left to you or to the master who pays the piper to have one leader with balls. What will he do? buy arms? fight back with arms. What good would this do? win and rule the day? Then the other party as you would expect there will be another party will be armed more. How does this stop? and what good will this do to our kids and grand children. Sure, we can have the courage to fight back but not with arms. It is fundamental that a government regardless of colour has the duty of protecting it’s citizens. And this is what it is all about. Kidnapped, even if it is one Lebanese, in Syria or Argentine our leaders must give him or her all the support no matter what religion he or she is. That is citizenship the minute they carry the passport then the government have a duty to protect. And furthermore the citizen has obligations to his country too.That is what we have to teach our kids if we like to have a good country to be proud off and not have a huge number of our citizens move abroad to seek a better life. The need personal security is paramount in any civilized society.

        5. Crossed Avatar
          Crossed

          I never advocated for the invasion of Israel. It sounds like you’re reading off a script. Try to read what I said first before replying like that.

          So having a comm. network and legal arms means it’s a state within a state? I don’t think so. Hezbollah is not giving orders to anyone, nor are they using this network externally. So it doesn’t concearn anyone outside of the group. Its a tool to communicate between themselves that they pay to operate. You wanna be a dictator and ban comm. networks in the country? go for it, best of luck.

          I also am not debating israel. But if you haven’t noticed, the world is full of conflict. God bless our army, but they are not capable of protecting us. Are we just gonna write poems to stop a possible invasion? Or are you able to see in the future and tell us an army isn’t needed?

          I also didn’t wed any fates. Our country has a foriegn policy. No peace with israel until a Palestine exists. Because “if one is occupied, all are occupied”. And I agree with this 100%. Palestinians are suffering, but because of political problems between Fatah and Hamas, we should just ignore them? No. If you don’t care about other families, much like your own, thats cool you do that. But others such as myself would rather live in a county with some sort of ethics and its own free will.

          You assume I take a side in Syria, or that I’m a shi’ite. I won’t bother with this.

          Check your stats, more than half the country supports this stance about Israel, Pal.

          In conclusion, Lebanon should not make peace with israel until a Palestine exists. Hezbollah’s comm. network and arms are legal under the state, and I believe a civilized state includes being ready to thwart an invasion, be it from israel, china, or martians.

      2. wargame1 Avatar
        wargame1

        First of all you need to find out who these 13 shia really are and what they were doing in that war zone. If you find that they are from Hezbushaitan went to help Assad to kill Syrian people then will you condemn the abduction or will you praise for the abduction? 

        If the Free Syrian army find then as trained solders fighting them then they wont give a damn of those pilgrim theory. All they will do is to exchange some of their captured solders or simply execute them under a tree. Therefore we need to find out what were those 13 shia pilgrim were up to. 

      3. dateam Avatar
        dateam

        fyi..wargame1….they were travelling on buses with their families….gunmen stopped the bus seperated women and children from men and took the men…their families have arrived safely in lebanon…that was from daily star a few hours ago….does that change your opinion…we need to stop assuming and think….

    2. Constantin7 Avatar
      Constantin7

      I do not agree with you JS Bach. Hariri’s reaction is excellent and shows statemanship. These kidnapped shiaa are LEBANESE first and foremost, and kidnapped in a foreign country, and every Lebanese politician should denounce this act and put pressure on Syria or whoever to release them immediately unharmed. This is not an issue of Sunni vs. Shiaa, this is an issue of Lebanese vs. non-Lebanese, and any logical Lebanese person would side ALWAYS with his Lebanese citizen and take the position that Hariri took. Hariri is not bending over, Hariri is being human and Lebanese and just logical. Your reaction is not logical and is based on the high emotions of the prior days’ events.

      1. JS Bach Avatar
        JS Bach

        Greetings Constantin, and thanks for your reply,

        First off if we’re going to have a constructive discussion, please don’t say in a factual manner where my reaction is coming from. I’ll give you the “not logical” because that’s an opinion, but you really don’t know what my reaction based upon. Here’s what it’s really based upon:

        I am with you 100% on the human front. But even Ghandi, the world’s foremost pacifist, believed that pacifism does not work all the time, and that sometimes you *have* to stand up for yourself and defend your positions or even attack.

        You’ve got an armed entity to the teeth in Lebanon called HA that hasn’t condemned any freaking harm that happened to Hariri or his people for the past several years. Not only that but they’ve invaded the capital and attacked and killed and destroyed. They don’t give a crap about the 12,000 people that were killed/tortured/mutilated over the past year and even participated in the crackdown. Even if you are the most progressive, liberal, open-minded, non-sectarian, secular, pacifist, humanist Lebanese, it remains a fact that that entity *is* treating you 24 hours a day on a sectarian basis and is ready to jump and devour you alive at any moment—as proven by its own track record, not our imagination. And what? You’re gonna sit there and be Jesus Christ and let them have you for lunch? You’re gonna cry me a river when a bunch of their own are kidnapped? Why? Hell why? These kidnapped “Lebanese” are no more special than the 12,000 people that they participated in killing, nor our whole country they’re holding hostage. 

        When these kidnapped people or their leaders start giving a shit about Lebanon, and less about Syria and Iran, let’s call them Lebanese and start having compassionate, Kumbaya, Buddhist feelings towards them. Until them, I am for Hamorabi’s approach. Hariri’s “human” approach has not worked, has not made a dent of difference since his father was killed, and will not. It has in fact made things much worse because it gave.

        I’m sorry I can’t be compassionate when the other party is not compassionate towards me and is hijacking my country and attacking me on a daily basis. My point of view is also about humanity and survival and not letting the thugs take over and determine my fate and yours.

        Now, on the individual level, of course these 12 people are innocent pilgrims who have families and wives and children and parents and siblings. Unfortunately they happen to belong to the larger context that almost nullifies their own humanity.

        1. Crossed Avatar
          Crossed

          “You’ve got an armed entity to the teeth in Lebanon called HA”
          When S.Hariri was PM he signed off on legalizing their arms under the state.

          “hasn’t condemned any freaking harm that happened to Hariri or his people for the past several years.”
          Simply not true. HA have condemned anything that would lead to civil war or strife. It’s also a part of their manifesto.

          “they’ve invaded the capital and attacked and killed and destroyed.”
          You’re talking about may 2008. In that case the government at the time was legally invalid. Therefore, when the “government” attempted to to tear down HA’s comm. network, it was an illegal move done outside of the authority of the state. Also, it’s funny how you fault HA for defending their network with arms, what do you think was in the hands of the thugs who tried to illegally tear down the network?

          You seem to ramble on about how supporters of HA are inhuman. That’s your own view I guess, however un-Lebanese it may sound.

          In my Lebanon, I believe in defending our land and our people. I believe that if anyone in the region, especially our Palestinian brothers, are occupied than we are all occupied. No one is free if one of us is not. HA has the best answer to this. To maintain arms, with popular support, in case of an invasion.

          Who sounds inhuman now?

        2. JS Bach Avatar
          JS Bach

          Crossed,

          In your mind, I do of course. Your premise is that the arms are legal and the communications network is legal. Therefore the state-in-a-state is legal. Therefore police off-limits is legal. All of that why? To defend the country of course. Defend it against what? You guys need to remove that fantasy called Israel from your minds. We are not going to debate Israel’s morality or crimes or legality of existence right now, so please don’t drag us there. That is not the point. But Israel as it stands today has zero interest in annexing an inch of Lebanese land or expanding their state into Lebanon. Disagree with this as you shall.

          Your other point which I utterly reject is marrying my fate and the fate of my country to Palestine or any other entity. My life and my children are not your property to mortgage for Palestine’s liberation. The Palestinians themselves had many a chance to fix their situation and they blew all their chances out of the water, one at a time. The Palestinians themselves clearly have no frickin’ interest in fixing their own situation. Fatah and Hamas have murdered and shelled and kidnapped and tortured each other for years. You gonna tell me that you, Mr., care about the Palestinian situation more than they do themselves? Aha. Yeah, right. Nonsense away my friend. How come the Palestinian Sunnis are your “brothers” while the Syrian Sunnis fighting for their freedom are terrorists? Assad has done to the Syrian Sunnis what  Israel hasn’t done to the Shiites in South Lebanon.

          Who told you the Palestinians are my brothers? Who told you if they are occupied I’m occupied? Who told you we’re either all free or all imprisoned? If that works for you it doesn’t work for me or the other half of the country buddy. You want to live a life of jihad and struggle, go right ahead. Split the goddamn country, have your South and fight Israel away! You already have the mini-country setup anyway, so what the hell is the difference?

          Your friend Moe below says “we are all Lebanese and stand together to free Palestine end of story”. You see, his goal and whole reason of existence in life is to liberate Palestine. Then he whines that he wants electricity because his food is rotting. Make up your goddamn minds. You can’t have it both ways. Do you want a civilized modern state (with electricity)? Or do you want to liberate Palestine? You cannot have a civilized state if your agenda and resources are focused elsewhere.

          Good day.

        3. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Good discussions people. Bach has done a good job on two articles here.
           Crossed is similar in his thinking, as are many here; but for the last shot (below) about inhumanity … who says maintaining arms leads to freedom and good government? And frankly, the biggest fear of invasion now is from the north-east, not from the south. Where have the defenders of women and children been this last two weeks??
          One could argue that Israel is aggressive, yet with all their weapons they still manage to have a government that works for most of the time … something to think on. And I don’t believe Nastyrallah becoming a dictator is going to do it for Lebanon.
          IF allowed another election, everyone better figure out something better to vote for. ALL around.
          It’s time to stop mucking around in the histories, forget the histrionics, and decide a future that will work, FOR a free and growing Lebanon – or the people are simply doomed to repeat history …. ad nauseaum.

    3. Moe2000 Avatar
      Moe2000

       You’re a idiot Hezbollah has not attacked anyone he only opposes the Zionist agents in Lebanon. Harriri and his thugs have stole billions from the Lebanese people the most corrupt politicians on the planet him and his father pocketed billions and with seniora. Hezbollah put a end to there Zionist sharade when they went after his tela line because they where ordered to do so by the Zionists entity.

      1. yalibnan Avatar
        yalibnan

        Please lets keep this discussion civil and refrain from any personal  attacks

      2. wargame1 Avatar
        wargame1

        Hezbollah is the Zionist agent along with there Iranian Satanic regime. There are recorded statement of those Iranian leaders that they helped USA and Israel in Iraq and Afghanistan invasion. >Consequently you have there the Shia lackey of Iran and USA in both of these countries. 

        Now in Libya according to the own admission of Iranian foreign Minister they are helping the Libyan rebel i.e. NATO rats. Ex Hezbollah secretary Mr. Subhi Tufaeli said Hezbollah is Israeli border guard and they prevent any attack on Israel. 

        Now stop this nonsense and do not accuse any one as Zionist agent other than Hezbollah and Iranian regime. If you play this Zionist card every now and then the real story will be exposed. Do not go for pilgrim in to a war zone because you are already a suspect of Assad helper by the free Syrian Army.

        1. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          People visit the Shrines in Damascus Iraq and Iran all the time my family does also they are the shrines of the prophet mohameds family, The Syrian people have a right for freedom no one can deny them that but it’s not the right time for Syria. The zionist agenda aims to install a puppet dictator how they did in Yemen a few weeks back one man elections for Syria and Yemen Zionist puppets.

        2. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           War is coming soon Israel will attack Iran soon if not this summer soon after especially if there is no deal tomorrow in Baghdad Assad will join this war and depending who is elected in Egypt will also join.

        3. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

          This summer we will find out. The goal is to remove Bashar and install a puppet before the attack on Iran Bashar will open a front from the Golan HA will open from the south. When 2 Arab nations are at war with the Zionist regime the rest must help. Russia and China have stated they will help Iran.

        4. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           The House of Saud and the GCC have the U.S bases not Syria and Iran, The house of Saud helped invade Iraq and caused one millions deaths twice. The house of Saud supply 75% of the fighters and bombs in Iraq to blow up the Iraqi people to blow up the Mosques in  Najaf Basra and Certain neighborhoods. Harriri is a puppet of the house of Saud the puppets installed by the U.K 100 years ago.

        5. Moe2000 Avatar
          Moe2000

           You need to wake up my friend and see who really is feeding you the propaganda. Look at RT news i think they are nonbiased news in the Middle East or even Asiatimes.

      3. deptyGod Avatar
        deptyGod

        yes yu goood mr

      4. deptyGod Avatar
        deptyGod

        no need help from wahabies mr 

        1. yazidi Avatar
          yazidi

          wahabies and salafis  because of faqihi farisi… did you get it or need help to unerstand

      5. 5thDrawer Avatar
        5thDrawer

        So, Moe, What’s the right time for some freedom without death in Syria? When Nastyrallah says so?
        When is visiting a shrine more important than the lives of your family? Those prophetic shrines will be there for a while more, we can assume … why add the provocation of unwanted pilgrim-busses lurching over the broken roads to the picture of civil war there? Iran and Iraq need the tourists that bad? Take a plane.
        On the other hand, if losing a few of those ‘super-believers’ on either side helps set the whole place off, I guess you might as well pack a bus and claim the other guys did it – on a regular basis.
        Sure there’s propaganda everywhere, along with those little-detail-make-a-splash ‘news’ reports, but why feed the possibilities of making more? Anyone who goes into a war-zone, as wargame1 says to ‘go pilgrim’, is frankly off their nut. Talk to your family, please.
        Meanwhile, fouling the atmosphere with burning tires BY BOTH packs of idiots is not getting the real story out. Even the numbers have changed it seems. (And the Israelis aren’t doing that bit.)
        There’s a lot of puppets around lately, it seems to me, and their knee-jerk reactions to anything is drawing guns first and asking questions later, screwing up life for everyone because they think they are ‘the most supreme’.
         The theorists are happy when something seems to fit their moulding of all the events … for centuries it’s people trying to make the ‘great theory’ books come true that cause the biggest headaches. Can’t even get histories right any more … let alone inject some modern thinking into the mess.

      6. master09 Avatar
        master09

        YOU SAY …  Shiites are the majority like it or not we are all Lebanese and stand together to free Palestine end of story no room for Zionist agents.
        You sure are confused. No room for Zionist agents, no You would rather have a group of thugs who will drag Lebanon to war. THE RESISTANCE what the FU..K do the JEWS want from Lebanon. Well as long as there are groups like before when the PLO and now HA who threaten the JEWS the Lebanese  will continue to live in hell. PUT DOWN the weapons live them alone let the PAlestinians work the problem out and I  guarantee   you Lebanon will be a place called paradise…..  Instead of spending all this money on weapons how about feed the LEBANESE instead of having WAR ON THE MIND ALL THE TIME…..

    4. dateam Avatar
      dateam

      maybe a pattern is starting to emerge here…humour me for a moment…the sunnis have been hit…now the shiites….maybe druze and christians are next? maybe certain people are starting to see a pattern emergerging aimed at dividing us…classic case of controlled chaos in order to conquer and divide???

    5. yazidi Avatar
      yazidi

      his excused PUSSY with capital letters….

  3. Beiruti Avatar
    Beiruti

    What the Lebanese are gonna do now…

    1. JS Bach Avatar
      JS Bach

      Very simple: They’re gonna fight among each other until the last man standing! 😉

    2. MeYosemite Avatar
      MeYosemite

      Argue which religion is better, and who did what. What else can they do?

  4. Beiruti Avatar
    Beiruti

    What the Lebanese are gonna do now…

    1. JS Bach Avatar
      JS Bach

      Very simple: They’re gonna fight among each other until the last man standing! 😉

    2. MeYosemite Avatar
      MeYosemite

      Argue which religion is better, and who did what. What else can they do?

  5. wargame1 Avatar
    wargame1

    @google-a855ad025cb19ebba9abb2352ec5e350:disqus good argument and thank you. We still dont know who these abducted people are. Pilgrim sounds lovely like a sheep what if these are armed hezbushaitans terrorist gang went to kill Syrians? We have seen thugs sent by Muqtada al sadr from Iraq to Syria. They are captured already. Iranian revolutionary guard also captured. 

    Pilgrims going to a war zone to worship what? Free Syrian Army denied this charge already and accuse Assad regime for this abduction. When we last hear the Hezbushaitan and Iranian regime claimed that they are sending their trained thugs in to Syria to Help that Dog? We need to read between the line and it is very important now to tell that nasrallat not to send pilgrims in to a war zone and endangered them in to the crossfire. 

    If they are pilgrim which they claim then there is a possibility that they are hired thug also. 

    1. dateam Avatar
      dateam

      wargame you prove my point…when and how will we ever move forward when ignorance always prevails….if they werent pilgrims im sure it would have been splashed all over the news you know how the media loves to jump on that “pilgrims going to war zone to worship what” pilgrims from all religions will always go on pilgrimigaes no matter the circumstances…no different that missionaries in war zones….or going to haj during time of war…if their shiites they probably were going to sit zainab or to najaf in iraq….besides im sure the syrian regime has enough of its people im sure they dont need these 11 people???

  6. wargame1 Avatar
    wargame1

    @google-a855ad025cb19ebba9abb2352ec5e350:disqus good argument and thank you. We still dont know who these abducted people are. Pilgrim sounds lovely like a sheep what if these are armed hezbushaitans terrorist gang went to kill Syrians? We have seen thugs sent by Muqtada al sadr from Iraq to Syria. They are captured already. Iranian revolutionary guard also captured. 

    Pilgrims going to a war zone to worship what? Free Syrian Army denied this charge already and accuse Assad regime for this abduction. When we last hear the Hezbushaitan and Iranian regime claimed that they are sending their trained thugs in to Syria to Help that Dog? We need to read between the line and it is very important now to tell that nasrallat not to send pilgrims in to a war zone and endangered them in to the crossfire. 

    If they are pilgrim which they claim then there is a possibility that they are hired thug also. 

    1. dateam Avatar
      dateam

      wargame you prove my point…when and how will we ever move forward when ignorance always prevails….if they werent pilgrims im sure it would have been splashed all over the news you know how the media loves to jump on that “pilgrims going to war zone to worship what” pilgrims from all religions will always go on pilgrimigaes no matter the circumstances…no different that missionaries in war zones….or going to haj during time of war…if their shiites they probably were going to sit zainab or to najaf in iraq….besides im sure the syrian regime has enough of its people im sure they dont need these 11 people???

  7. dateam Avatar
    dateam

    we have just become a broken,fickle inhumane society…..we are our own worst enemy and our real enemy sits watches and laughs at us….we are ALL at fault…truth is noone understands their religion…whther muslim,christian,sunni,shiite,maroinite,druze,jew,orthodox or whatever any religion preaches peace and respect….hate and racism is taught by humans not god because we all agree that there is one god….11 LEBANESE men have been kidnapped FULL STOP. thats what has transpired here and that is my only concern….in relation to some of the comments here when hezbollah did the prisoner exchange with israel recently how many prisoners dead or alive were released and how many were sunni,shite,christian,druze etc??? how many were lebanese and non lebanese…? life is about humanity…religion is about fighting injustice and keeping humanity alive…until we see each other as humans first we will never have our dignity and our humanity….enough their are certain agendas being set for the middle east that alot of us are too blind to see and one of them is the breaking up of countries into smaller sectarian lines to weaken us for these enemies know that a united lebanon will be untouchable….noone is better than anyone…god bless all

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      “because we all agree that there is one god” ….. Uhhhh … Dateam … how do you know there are no Hindus here?  😉

      1. dateam Avatar
        dateam

        Yes sorry your rite…but you know what I’m getting at

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Yup. Do.

      2. MeYosemite Avatar
        MeYosemite

        Ethnographically speaking, it appears we have many. Each group defends his and treats the other groups disrespectfully. There is no much difference between, one people with many gods, or many people divided and one god for each. We can argue that into the tuple of one messenger for each and one god for all (I collapsed the tuples as each messenger speaks for god.) anyone can argue that from an individual beliefs, but the facts of the majorities define their realities. Another proof is that faith interchange is doable, but not popular…. Say over 20%.

  8. dateam Avatar
    dateam

    we have just become a broken,fickle inhumane society…..we are our own worst enemy and our real enemy sits watches and laughs at us….we are ALL at fault…truth is noone understands their religion…whther muslim,christian,sunni,shiite,maroinite,druze,jew,orthodox or whatever any religion preaches peace and respect….hate and racism is taught by humans not god because we all agree that there is one god….11 LEBANESE men have been kidnapped FULL STOP. thats what has transpired here and that is my only concern….in relation to some of the comments here when hezbollah did the prisoner exchange with israel recently how many prisoners dead or alive were released and how many were sunni,shite,christian,druze etc??? how many were lebanese and non lebanese…? life is about humanity…religion is about fighting injustice and keeping humanity alive…until we see each other as humans first we will never have our dignity and our humanity….enough their are certain agendas being set for the middle east that alot of us are too blind to see and one of them is the breaking up of countries into smaller sectarian lines to weaken us for these enemies know that a united lebanon will be untouchable….noone is better than anyone…god bless all

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      “because we all agree that there is one god” ….. Uhhhh … Dateam … how do you know there are no Hindus here?  😉

      1. dateam Avatar
        dateam

        Yes sorry your rite…but you know what I’m getting at

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Yup. Do.

      2. MeYosemite Avatar
        MeYosemite

        Ethnographically speaking, it appears we have many. Each group defends his and treats the other groups disrespectfully. There is no much difference between, one people with many gods, or many people divided and one god for each. We can argue that into the tuple of one messenger for each and one god for all (I collapsed the tuples as each messenger speaks for god.) anyone can argue that from an individual beliefs, but the facts of the majorities define their realities. Another proof is that faith interchange is doable, but not popular…. Say over 20%.

  9. master09 Avatar
    master09

    CROSSED,      you said   “HA has the best answer to this. To maintain arms, with popular support, in case of an invasion ”
    WHO  the FU….K WANTS TO INVADE AND WHYYYYYYY.????????  WHY??   

  10. master09 Avatar
    master09

    CROSSED,      you said   “HA has the best answer to this. To maintain arms, with popular support, in case of an invasion ”
    WHO  the FU….K WANTS TO INVADE AND WHYYYYYYY.????????  WHY??   

  11. yazidi Avatar
    yazidi

    hezboshytan is a terrorist group.. end of story why.. because the leader (devil) nasarshytan give no remorse for those ten of thousands of people killed in syria and he is sharing the responsability for the killing by sending his thugs doing the pilgrimage of killing the sunni there.. that the pilgrimage they are talking about…why this situation happen to the sunni of humiliation because PUSSY no balls called leaders like hariri still dreaming about the STL. go to hell with your STL a whole country is burning by those shi3a/alawi dogs and the world is doing nothing…soon the pussy will be fucked……..

  12. yazidi Avatar
    yazidi

    hezboshytan is a terrorist group.. end of story why.. because the leader (devil) nasarshytan give no remorse for those ten of thousands of people killed in syria and he is sharing the responsability for the killing by sending his thugs doing the pilgrimage of killing the sunni there.. that the pilgrimage they are talking about…why this situation happen to the sunni of humiliation because PUSSY no balls called leaders like hariri still dreaming about the STL. go to hell with your STL a whole country is burning by those shi3a/alawi dogs and the world is doing nothing…soon the pussy will be fucked……..

  13. lefthanded Avatar
    lefthanded

    I always thought that in Lebanon we would never have a civil war again, but after the events of the last few days and reading some of the comments over here, i think it’s a real possibility! we never learn from our mistakes, do we? (danab el kalb a3waj)

    I think a new law should be implemented in Lebanon, anyone who says in public, i’m a sunni, shi3i, orthodox, etc, should be hanged from his b*lls, i mean you know you are, right? why do you need others to now? is it so hard to treat everyone as Lebanese?

    To those who say we need to fight israel, i agree 100% but you can’t have more fights at one time, wouldn’t be great if we solve our internal issues first? Sadly the damage is so deep, it’s almost impossible to repair, thanks to our so called leaders you so dearly love and follow!

    And this is coming from a religious(somewhat) muslim…OUCH MY B**** 😉

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Hehehe … that was from my right hand 😉

  14. lefthanded Avatar
    lefthanded

    I always thought that in Lebanon we would never have a civil war again, but after the events of the last few days and reading some of the comments over here, i think it’s a real possibility! we never learn from our mistakes, do we? (danab el kalb a3waj)

    I think a new law should be implemented in Lebanon, anyone who says in public, i’m a sunni, shi3i, orthodox, etc, should be hanged from his b*lls, i mean you know you are, right? why do you need others to now? is it so hard to treat everyone as Lebanese?

    To those who say we need to fight israel, i agree 100% but you can’t have more fights at one time, wouldn’t be great if we solve our internal issues first? Sadly the damage is so deep, it’s almost impossible to repair, thanks to our so called leaders you so dearly love and follow!

    And this is coming from a religious(somewhat) muslim…OUCH MY B**** 😉

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Hehehe … that was from my right hand 😉

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