Massacre Reported in Syria as Security Council Meets

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Syrian opposition activists said more than 200 people were killed in a Sunni village on Thursday by government forces using tanks and helicopters, which, if confirmed, would be the worst in a series of massacres that have convulsed Syria’s increasingly sectarian uprising against President Bashar al-AssaThe Syrian government also reported a mass killing in the village but said it was committed by armed terrorist groups, the official description for Mr. Assad’s opponents. It said at least 50 people were killed.

The site of the reported massacre, the village of Tremseh near the city of Hama, a focal point of the 17-month-old uprising, was the first mass killing since United Nations cease-fire monitors suspended their work in Syria a month ago because conditions were too dangerous.

Activists in Hama posted a video on YouTube accusing the government of “ethnic cleansing in Hama,” and said the killings in Tremseh were “unlike any massacre that has previously occurred in Syria.” Tremseh is a Sunni village surrounded by villages populated by Mr. Assad’s Alawite sect.

Initial reports of an atrocity in Tremseh came as Security Council diplomats were meeting in a closed session at the United Nations to work on drafting a new resolution to force Mr. Assad’s government and its armed antagonists to honor a cease-fire, allow the monitors to resume their work, and carry out a peace plan by the special envoy Kofi Annan. That plan has been ignored despite repeated pleas by Mr. Annan to Mr. Assad.

The Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, one of Mr. Assad’s most outspoken foes, issued a statement blaming not only Mr. Assad but also his foreign backers for the massacre. It singled out Russia, Iran and Mr. Annan.

“The Muslim Brotherhood in Syria do not consider Bashar the Beast the only one responsible for this horrific massacre,” it said. “Responsibility for this and for previous massacres also lies with Annan, with the Russians and the Iranians, and all those states who claim they are protecting peace and stability yet stay silent and skulk away from taking any responsibility.”

Reports by the Local Coordination Committees, an anti-Assad group in Syria, said many Tremseh victims were shot as they tried to escape the bombardments. The group put the death toll at 200, and activists reached by telephone said it could be as many as 250. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a British-based group with contacts in Syria, said that government troops “bombarded the village using tanks and helicopters” and that the death toll exceeded 100.

Syria’s state television ran a series of urgent bulletins attributing the high toll to clashes between the security forces and terrorist attackers. It said that security forces had arrested a number of suspects in the village and had seized significant weapons caches including some from Israel, another standard government accusation meant to imply Israeli subterfuge.

The state television report said that security forces had entered the village only after receiving “calls from local residents to save them from the terrorist groups which committed massacres against civilians.”

Abu Mohammad, a resident of a nearby village named Kfar Hod, who said he had visited Tremseh afterward, described in a telephone interview a scene of devastation, with bodies strewed in fields, on streets and in private homes. He said about 50 corpses had been retrieved from the Orontes River adjoining the village. Most residents were farmers, said Abu Mohammed, who did not want to be identified by his complete name for fear of retribution.

He said a convoy of vehicles from Alawite villages had parked outside the village early Thursday, including five trucks filled with soldiers, and began shooting. They were backed by tanks along the village’s eastern edge. Pro-Assad militiamen known as shabiha deployed on the western edge of the village, he said, and “fired at anyone or any car that tried to leave the village.”

The village lies just west of Hama, along a fault line running roughly parallel to the Orontes River between the highlands populated by Alawites and the plains dominated by Sunni Muslims, the majority in Syria and the bulk of the armed opposition. Should Syria descend into a full-blown civil war, as many now fear, experts expect the bloodletting to be especially fierce in the string of villages that run along that line because they are so religiously and ethnically mixed — not only Alawites and Sunnis but also Christians, Ismailis and other sects from the patchwork of Syria’s groups.

The previous largest massacre, in Houla, where 108 people were killed on May 25, was farther south along the same line. Opposition groups said Mr. Assad’s forces did the killing in Houla. But Mr. Assad, in a recent television interview, placed blame for the atrocity on his enemies, who he said had dressed in army uniforms to make the government look bad.

Word of the Tremseh killings came as new fractures opened in Mr. Assad’s hierarchy. The first ambassador to break with him since the uprising began exhorted his countrymen to join the revolution, and he urged the armed forces to “turn your guns on the criminals from this regime.”

The statement by the ambassador, Nawaf Fares, who defected on Wednesday from his post in Baghdad and is believed to be in Qatar, came as the Syrian government announced that he had been dismissed and could face prosecution. That was essentially a confirmation that Mr. Fares had joined Mr. Assad’s enemies.

His remarks, broadcast by Al Jazeera in a video statement and an interview, also denounced Iran for providing Mr. Assad with military and economic support.

“Iran is contributing to the problem, it is a cause of the problem, so how can it be part of the solution?” he said.

Earlier Thursday, antigovernment activists posted videos online claiming that Syrian forces had added unguided cluster bombs, designed to maximize damage and casualties, to their arsenal. Weapons experts said the videos were credible. Steve Goose, arms division director at Human Rights Watch, said if the images were confirmed it would be the first documented use of cluster munitions in the conflict.

NY Times

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61 responses to “Massacre Reported in Syria as Security Council Meets”

  1. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    As per usual, Not a single blame on the Free Syrian Assholes. How could anyone believe that the government are the ones committing these horrific crimes. “ethnic cleansing”, what an absolute lie

    1. Hannibal Avatar
      Hannibal

      I do believe it… I have spoken to people who live there from both sides and both sides are committing atrocities. However, this won’t end well for the Alaouites. They are a minority. If weapons reach the Sunnis I guarantee they will pay innocent Alaouite villages in kind. Something in the water that makes the entire region residents lose their humanity. There are no lies here.

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Hannibal, Just like when the media claims that most of the countries people is against the government. I was in Syria when millions of people hit the streets in support of Assad. These protest take place more than 1 time and in more than 1 place. I take that is a lie because the Zionist media claims so. The media with tell you what it suits them like Assad is losing control of the country. Be reassured that he and his army have total control.
        Again I have first hand information regarding this.

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          But Corty have you read all the Arab news report they are no diff,,, it is all of them and the west are getting news from the Arabs….mostly..

        2. master09 Avatar
          master09

          But Corty have you read all the Arab news report they are no diff,,, it is all of them and the west are getting news from the Arabs….mostly..

        3. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          ‘The Media’ generally report what they can find … and Assad doesn’t allow any of them (legally) into the country … not from the very beginning. Who wanted the biggest cover-up?? All the world was left with was phone-cam videos … which over a year don’t paint a rosy picture of the Syrian army using heavy but in-discriminant weapons on civilian homes and a general population.
          Now it is a war. 
          Assad certainly didn’t work to stop the escalation, did he? And where were the roof-top shooters back when it was only demonstrating, and your ‘pro-people’ were demonstrating??
          I might observe now there is a natural ‘flow’ to the whole thing … seems logical … it IS a war.

        4. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          ‘The Media’ generally report what they can find … and Assad doesn’t allow any of them (legally) into the country … not from the very beginning. Who wanted the biggest cover-up?? All the world was left with was phone-cam videos … which over a year don’t paint a rosy picture of the Syrian army using heavy but in-discriminant weapons on civilian homes and a general population.
          Now it is a war. 
          Assad certainly didn’t work to stop the escalation, did he? And where were the roof-top shooters back when it was only demonstrating, and your ‘pro-people’ were demonstrating??
          I might observe now there is a natural ‘flow’ to the whole thing … seems logical … it IS a war.

      2. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Furthermore Hannibal, you are right. It wont end well for the Free Syrian Ass Holes. Its just a matter of time. All who took up arms against their country will suffer a pain they have never felt god willing

  2. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    As per usual, Not a single blame on the Free Syrian Assholes. How could anyone believe that the government are the ones committing these horrific crimes. “ethnic cleansing”, what an absolute lie

  3. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    As per usual, Not a single blame on the Free Syrian Assholes. How could anyone believe that the government are the ones committing these horrific crimes. “ethnic cleansing”, what an absolute joke 

    1. I do believe it… I have spoken to people who live there from both sides and both sides are committing atrocities. However, this won’t end well for the Alaouites. They are a minority. If weapons reach the Sunnis I guarantee they will pay innocent Alaouite villages in kind. Something in the water that makes the entire region residents lose their humanity. There are no lies here.

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Hannibal, Just like when the media claims that most of the
        countries people is against the government. I was in Syria when millions of
        people hit the streets in support of Assad. These protest take place more than
        1 time and in more than 1 place. I take that is a lie because the Zionist media
        claims so. The media with tell you what it suits them like Assad is losing
        control of the country. Be reassured that he and his army have total control.
        Again I have first hand information regarding this.   

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          But Corty have you read all the Arab news report they are no diff,,, it is all of them and the west are getting news from the Arabs….mostly..

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          ‘The Media’ generally report what they can find … and Assad doesn’t allow any of them (legally) into the country … not from the very beginning. Who wanted the biggest cover-up?? All the world was left with was phone-cam videos … which over a year don’t paint a rosy picture of the Syrian army using heavy but in-discriminant weapons on civilian homes and a general population.
          Now it is a war. 
          Assad certainly didn’t work to stop the escalation, did he? And where were the roof-top shooters back when it was only demonstrating, and your ‘pro-people’ were demonstrating??
          I might observe now there is a natural ‘flow’ to the whole thing … seems logical … it IS a war.

      2. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Furthermore Hannibal, you are right. It wont end well for the Free Syrian Ass Holes. Its just a matter of time. All who took up arms against their country will suffer a pain they have never felt god willing

  4. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    Yes 5th, its war, 100.000 defected, FSA has taken 40% of the country, blah blah blah. What’s funny though and I have said it on numerous occasions, there is never a mention on this site of the bad that the FSA is doing. Or is
    what they are getting up to not classified as terrorism. Do you really think the FSA aren’t killing innocent people.

    As for Assad not allowing the media in, If you remember in the beginning the media especially Al Jazeerawas freely in the country reporting what was happening. However after all the lies and fabrication they spun what would you have Assad do. Just allow them to spin all the bullshit.Al Jazeera was caught out so many times lying. But I suppose we should just believe them hey. After all its a news agency owned and run by the biggest full of shit country on earth. I’ll let you guess who that is champ.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Unlike SANA, eh Corty? 🙂  
      At least it’s not USA you whack at this time, as it’s actually more informative than most US news-sites. But anyone can look up ownership.
      Wikipedia has opinion … maybe you should go there and straighten out their records … Al-Jazeera has been awarded for it’s willingness to broadcast dissenting views, praised for circumventing censorship and contributing to the free exchange of information in the Arab world, and nominated as one of the five best news web sites along with BBC, National Geographic, etc.
      You don’t like Qatar, I guess.

  5. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    Yes 5th, its war, 100.000 defected, FSA has taken 40% of the country, blah blah blah. What’s funny though and I have said it on numerous occasions, there is never a mention on this site of the bad that the FSA is doing. Or is
    what they are getting up to not classified as terrorism. Do you really think the FSA aren’t killing innocent people.

    As for Assad not allowing the media in, If you remember in the beginning the media especially Al Jazeerawas freely in the country reporting what was happening. However after all the lies and fabrication they spun what would you have Assad do. Just allow them to spin all the bullshit.Al Jazeera was caught out so many times lying. But I suppose we should just believe them hey. After all its a news agency owned and run by the biggest full of shit country on earth. I’ll let you guess who that is champ.

  6. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    Yes 5th, its war, 100.000 defected, FSA has taken 40% of the country, blah blah blah. What’s funny though and I have said it on numerous occasions, there is never a mention on this site of the bad that the FSA is doing. Or is
    what they are getting up to not classified as terrorism. Do you really think the FSA aren’t killing innocent people.

    As for Assad not allowing the media in, If you remember in the beginning the media especially Al Jazeerawas freely in the country reporting what was happening. However after all the lies and fabrication they spun what would you have Assad do. Just allow them to spin all the bullshit.Al Jazeera was caught out so many times lying. But I suppose we should just believe them hey. After all its a news agency owned and run by the biggest full of shit country on earth. I’ll let you guess who that is champ.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Unlike SANA, eh Corty? 🙂  
      At least it’s not USA you whack at this time, as it’s actually more informative than most US news-sites. But anyone can look up ownership.
      Wikipedia has opinion … maybe you should go there and straighten out their records … Al-Jazeera has been awarded for it’s willingness to broadcast dissenting views, praised for circumventing censorship and contributing to the free exchange of information in the Arab world, and nominated as one of the five best news web sites along with BBC, National Geographic, etc.
      You don’t like Qatar, I guess.

  7. rossoferrari Avatar
    rossoferrari

    Whether sunnis or alawites, rebels of loyalists…. ANIMALS is a description underscoring their identites. assad is reaping his return of investment in lebanon throughout the years. I feel bad for the children, women, elderly and the innocents who are caught in this disaster and cannot defend themselves. In short arabs are jarab. Where is mrs. assad, still spreading her legs pleasuring bashar and his shabihas while the genocide is ongoing.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Sneaked back to Daddy, Rosso … with a settlement. 😉

      Since you were asking about ‘mrs. assad’, and I answered, I don’t know what Corty’s going on with below … strange fellow. 🙂

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Come on 5th you can’t be serious. Do you really think a bunch of mercenary thugs like the Free Syrian Ass Holes are going to penetrate the Syrian government, The most powerful Islamic country in the middle east. They are nothing. Remember 5th. when the Moslem brotherhood tried to take on Harfez Al Assad (may god rest his soul) in the 80’s look what happened to them. These pieces of shit will suffer the same fate. Whether today, tomorrow or in 20 years. You see most of these animals are only fighting because of money. Once that’s taken away and make no mistake it will be. Well as MC hammer said “Its hammer time”

      2. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Furthermore 5th the Shiites and Alawites will lay down no more. The hidden agenda is clear. If these devil worshipping Zionist think they can eliminate us. Well they have another thing coming to them. You see we are no longer weak. The days of the Ottomans is over. This is our time. And scares the hell out of them. We will fight hand in hand. That’s the difference between us and them. 

    2. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Sneaked back to Daddy, Rosso … with a settlement. 😉

      Since you were asking about ‘mrs. assad’, and I answered, I don’t know what Corty’s going on with below … strange fellow. 🙂

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Furthermore 5th the Shiites and Alawites will lay down no more. The hidden agenda is clear. If these devil worshipping Zionist think they can eliminate us. Well they have another thing coming to them. You see we are no longer weak. The days of the Ottomans is over. This is our time. And scares the hell out of them. We will fight hand in hand. That’s the difference between us and them. 

    3. 73Corty77 Avatar
      73Corty77

      So now its called genocide. You people are a joke. May the Syrian army kill all those animal terrorist. Better known as the FREE SYRIAN ASS HOLES. I also feel bad for the children, women, elderly and the innocent being caught in the middle of this. Wish those pieces of shit like Qatar, Saudi and Turkey felt the same. The ones who claim they want to help the people and at the same time arm the opposition to created instability for the very people they claim they want help.  

    4. 73Corty77 Avatar
      73Corty77

      So now its called genocide. You people are a joke. May the Syrian army kill all those animal terrorist. Better known as the FREE SYRIAN ASS HOLES. I also feel bad for the children, women, elderly and the innocent being caught in the middle of this. Wish those pieces of shit like Qatar, Saudi and Turkey felt the same. The ones who claim they want to help the people and at the same time arm the opposition to created instability for the very people they claim they want help.  

  8. rossoferrari Avatar
    rossoferrari

    Whether sunnis or alawites, rebels of loyalists…. ANIMALS is a description underscoring their identites. assad is reaping his return of investment in lebanon throughout the years. I feel bad for the children, women, elderly and the innocents who are caught in this disaster and cannot defend themselves. In short arabs are jarab. Where is mrs. assad, still spreading her legs pleasuring bashar and his shabihas while the genocide is ongoing.

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Sneaked back to Daddy, Rosso … with a settlement. 😉

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Come on 5th you can’t be serious. Do you really think a bunch of mercenary thugs like the Free Syrian Ass Holes are going to penetrate the Syrian government, The most powerful Islamic country in the middle east. They are nothing. Remember 5th. when the Moslem brotherhood tried to take on Harfez Al Assad (may god rest his soul) in the 80’s look what happened to them. These pieces of shit will suffer the same fate. Whether today, tomorrow or in 20 years. You see most of these animals are only fighting because of money. Once that’s taken away and make no mistake it will be. Well as MC hammer said “Its hammer time”

      2. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Furthermore 5th the Shiites and Alawites will lay down no more. The hidden agenda is clear. If these devil worshipping Zionist think they can eliminate us. Well they have another thing coming to them. You see we are no longer weak. The days of the Ottomans is over. This is our time. And scares the hell out of them. We will fight hand in hand. That’s the difference between us and them. 

    2. 73Corty77 Avatar
      73Corty77

      So now its called genocide. You people are a joke. May the Syrian army kill all those animal terrorist. Better known as the FREE SYRIAN ASS HOLES. I also feel bad for the children, women, elderly and the innocent being caught in the middle of this. Wish those pieces of shit like Qatar, Saudi and Turkey felt the same. The ones who claim they want to help the people and at the same time arm the opposition to created instability for the very people they claim they want help.  

  9. yazidi Avatar

    thats the faqihi terror we are seeing is never going to end its their religion of hate its a revenge of the fake past its the cancer that we have and soon it will be healed…..

    1. 73Corty77 Avatar
      73Corty77

      As I said, LA3ANAK ALLAH YA SALIFI KALEB

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        Master and I suppose most of the Arabs aren’t full of shit. Come on why would you relay true information about a country or organisation you hate. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that most media isn’t full of shit.

        1. master09 Avatar
          master09

          That is my point Corty ALL media has lots of shit in them.. In Syria the FSA and the Syrian army I am sure are killing each other and children and women.. So what gets on my bug is that people will take sides on this…. I will say if anyone says one and not the other is doing more killing is full of shit…. WE can see, this is war both sides are doing BAD THINGS TO ALL, AND THAT NEEDS TO STOP.. WOMEN, CHILDREN AND OTHERS ARE GETTING KILLED. THEY ARE BOTH DOING BIG NUMBER KILLINGS…
           IF ONE SIDE KILL TEN AND THE OTHER 20 DOES IT MAKE IT BETTER FOR THE ONE WHO KILLED TEN…..I DO NOT THINK SO….AS ARABS PEACE CAN NOT BE SPOKEN, IT IS ONLY BY THE SWORD…THAT IS THE PROBLEM….

          1. 73Corty77 Avatar
            73Corty77

            I absolutely agree with you master. Nobody is truly innocent in any war. The big price is paid by the innocent people who get caught up in middle of it all. What shits me is most people on this site lay blame on Assad with never a mention of what the FSA is doing. Anyway well said master. Your view on things are very interesting and to the point.

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Assad had 20 or so years … FSA a year … Give them the same time, at least. 🙂

          3. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Assad had 20 or so years … FSA a year … Give them the same time, at least. 🙂

      2. Mahdi Kenaani Avatar
        Mahdi Kenaani

         He is a Jew!

        1. 73Corty77 Avatar
          73Corty77

          I don’t think so Mahdi. Jewish people in general aren’t stupid. This idiot is so negative and full of shit. By his comments and brain mentality I think he is Salifi. What ever the F_ _ K they are. 

      3. Mahdi Kenaani Avatar
        Mahdi Kenaani

         You are absolutely right, my bad.

      4. yazidi Avatar

        tfoo 3ala faqih ya anjas almot3a ya a7fad al yahood…

    2. 73Corty77 Avatar
      73Corty77

      As I said, LA3ANAK ALLAH YA SALIFI KALEB

      1. Mahdi Kenaani Avatar
        Mahdi Kenaani

         He is a Jew!

        1. 73Corty77 Avatar
          73Corty77

          I don’t think so Mahdi. Jewish people in general aren’t stupid. This idiot is so negative and full of shit. By his comments and brain mentality I think he is Salifi. What ever the F_ _ K they are. 

      2. Mahdi Kenaani Avatar
        Mahdi Kenaani

         You are absolutely right, my bad.

  10. yazidi Avatar

    thats the faqihi terror we are seeing is never going to end its their religion of hate its a revenge of the fake past its the cancer that we have and soon it will be healed…..

    1. 73Corty77 Avatar
      73Corty77

      As I said, LA3ANAK ALLAH YA SALIFI KALEB

      1. Mahdi Kenaani Avatar
        Mahdi Kenaani

         He is a Jew!

        1. 73Corty77 Avatar
          73Corty77

          I don’t think so Mahdi. Jewish people in general aren’t stupid. This idiot is so negative and full of shit. By his comments and brain mentality I think he is Salifi. What ever the F_ _ K they are. 

      2. Mahdi Kenaani Avatar
        Mahdi Kenaani

         You are absolutely right, my bad.

      3. yazidi Avatar

        tfoo 3ala faqih ya anjas almot3a ya a7fad al yahood…

  11. yazidi Avatar

    thats the faqihi terror we are seeing is never going to end its their religion of hate its a revenge of the fake past its the cancer that we have and soon it will be healed…..

  12. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    Master and I suppose most of the Arabs aren’t full of shit. Come on why would you relay true information about a country or organisation you hate. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that most media isn’t full of shit.

    1. master09 Avatar
      master09

      That is my point Corty ALL media has lots of shit in them.. In Syria the FSA and the Syrian army I am sure are killing each other and children and women.. So what gets on my bug is that people will take sides on this…. I will say if anyone says one and not the other is doing more killing is full of shit…. WE can see, this is war both sides are doing BAD THINGS TO ALL, AND THAT NEEDS TO STOP.. WOMEN, CHILDREN AND OTHERS ARE GETTING KILLED. THEY ARE BOTH DOING BIG NUMBER KILLINGS…
       IF ONE SIDE KILL TEN AND THE OTHER 20 DOES IT MAKE IT BETTER FOR THE ONE WHO KILLED TEN…..I DO NOT THINK SO….AS ARABS PEACE CAN NOT BE SPOKEN, IT IS ONLY BY THE SWORD…THAT IS THE PROBLEM….

  13. 73Corty77 Avatar
    73Corty77

    Master and I suppose most of the Arabs aren’t full of shit. Come on why would you relay true information about a country or organisation you hate. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that most media isn’t full of shit.

    1. master09 Avatar
      master09

      That is my point Corty ALL media has lots of shit in them.. In Syria the FSA and the Syrian army I am sure are killing each other and children and women.. So what gets on my bug is that people will take sides on this…. I will say if anyone says one and not the other is doing more killing is full of shit…. WE can see, this is war both sides are doing BAD THINGS TO ALL, AND THAT NEEDS TO STOP.. WOMEN, CHILDREN AND OTHERS ARE GETTING KILLED. THEY ARE BOTH DOING BIG NUMBER KILLINGS…
       IF ONE SIDE KILL TEN AND THE OTHER 20 DOES IT MAKE IT BETTER FOR THE ONE WHO KILLED TEN…..I DO NOT THINK SO….AS ARABS PEACE CAN NOT BE SPOKEN, IT IS ONLY BY THE SWORD…THAT IS THE PROBLEM….

      1. 73Corty77 Avatar
        73Corty77

        I absolutely agree with you master. Nobody is truly innocent in any war. The big price is paid by the innocent people who get caught up in middle of it all. What shits me is most people on this site lay blame on Assad with never a mention of what the FSA is doing. Anyway well said master. Your view on things are very interesting and to the point.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Assad had 20 or so years … FSA a year … Give them the same time, at least. 🙂

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