Lebanese denied visa in Australia over sexual orientation

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A Lebanese man who says he is gay and became engaged to an Australian woman to please his abusive father has been denied a protection visa because he was not believed to be homosexual.

The 25-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, sought the visa in April last year, saying he suffered persecution in Lebanon for being gay and experienced constant pressure from his father to marry because he was not ”acting like a man”.

The man purported to have had two secret homosexual relationships before coming to Australia for the first time in 2007.

One night when he had returned home late with a friend, his father tied him up, hit him and burnt him with a cigarette, the man claimed.

But during his first visit to Australia, the man became engaged to a woman after they were introduced by one of his uncles.

He applied for a prospective spouse visa, providing the Department of Immigration with photographs of an engagement party and saying he planned to marry and have children.

Eight days later, the man told the department he had broken off the engagement.

In evidence before the Refugee Review Tribunal, he said he had been ”desperate” to escape pressure from his father, who had tried to convince him he would eventually fall in love with his fiancee.

The only reason he said he loved the woman was to get a visa, he told the tribunal. But when his boyfriend in Lebanon became upset at what he had done, he withdrew the application.

The man told the tribunal his actions showed ”the struggles which a homosexual Muslim man faced when reaching marital age and in trying to avoid the stigma associated with being gay”.

But the tribunal did not believe he was homosexual or that he had been persecuted, finding his purported levels of fear would have resulted in a more prompt application for protection. Its decision has been upheld by the federal Magistrates Court in Sydney.

Sydney Morning Herald

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Comments

93 responses to “Lebanese denied visa in Australia over sexual orientation”

  1. He put the effort to leave lebanon while he should put more effort to turn straight instead. Being Gay is not a normal human status, I know lots of people will call me a lot of bad names for saying that, but still I feel sorry for Gays and Lezbos.

    It is only natural to have sex with the opposite sex, and for all the ones who are straight and will defend the gays I would just answer them by saying you wouldn’t be here defending them if your parents were gay now would YA?

    1. In_a_Mosh Avatar

      JadM you’re an idiot and a biggot if that’s what you really think.
      how can you suggest that “he should put more effort to turn straight”?
      do you think being gay is a hobby or a choice?
      you’re a complete idiot.
      people are BORN with a certain sexual orientation, not through choice.
      and why would you feel sorry for them, I gues it’s because they have to put up with cunts like you.
      so what is someone is gay?
      how can you talk about what’s natural when you (most probably) worship a non existant entity that you claim creates stuff by magic.
      you’re a bloody thicko!

  2. He put the effort to leave lebanon while he should put more effort to turn straight instead. Being Gay is not a normal human status, I know lots of people will call me a lot of bad names for saying that, but still I feel sorry for Gays and Lezbos.

    It is only natural to have sex with the opposite sex, and for all the ones who are straight and will defend the gays I would just answer them by saying you wouldn’t be here defending them if your parents were gay now would YA?

    1.  Avatar

      JadM you’re an idiot and a biggot if that’s what you really think.

      how can you suggest that “he should put more effort to turn straight”?

      do you think being gay is a hobby or a choice?

      you’re a complete idiot.

      people are BORN with a certain sexual orientation, not through choice.

      and why would you feel sorry for them, I gues it’s because they have to put up with cunts like you.

      so what is someone is gay?

      how can you talk about what’s natural when you (most probably) worship a non existant entity that you claim creates stuff by magic.

      you’re a bloody thicko!

  3. MetalKing

    Some people are born handicapped too, did they choose to be handicapped? yet you will find most of them trying to cope withtheir situation and even try to overcome the limitations their condition imposes on them. Having said that, I believe that being gay is just like having a handicap that you need to overcome. It happened that I have a few gay freinds from both genders and they are generally cool people to hang around with just like any other normal/straight human beings, so i hold no hatred to them as humanbeings with the same reasoning i would have for a handicapped….i just feel sorry for both….it is my right to think and feel whatever i want.

    I do worship a God who is the only God. He has created the Universe out of nothing and I will day in God’s will believing so

    1. In_a_Mosh Avatar

      No JadM, it is NOT your right to think and feel whatever you want if what you think and feel is hatered, and this is. how bloody dare you say you feel sorry for gay people. Gay people do NOT need your pity.
      and being gay is not like being disabled, and anyway, if I was gay or disabled I wouldnt want your or anyone’s pity, I’d still work hard to become BETTER THAN YOU, as I am.
      You’re a liar if you think that you have “a few gay friends”. pull the other one you plonker.
      and just for the record, there has been thousands of gods throughout history. all are made up.. not real.. do not exist.. and if they did exist, then they deserve shooting for allowing the world to get to state when the likes of YOU can have an opinion.

      1. First I do not hate gay people, if i say they abnormal that doesn’t mean I hate them. Second of all it is my right to believe what I want and at the end of the day we all will be judged by our creator wether you believe in God or not.

        I have noticed that you seek to insult the ones who disagree with you and despite your insults I am still giving you the benefit of doubt that underneath this agressive person that you are there are some brains in your head to reason with.

        Gays are not normal people, they are different it is as simple as that, let us just leave it at that as you are not able to comprehend what I am saying, you are just a scared little man for me.

        As for your disbelief in God that is your personal opinion and as i said before we will all be judged at the end…i am getting ready for that day in my own way…

        1. In_a_Mosh Avatar

          JadM, your words are hatered even if you dont know it (yet). It is probably not your fault but that of your society. You buddy, may represent all that is wrong with Lebanese society. Just because someone is different, you judge them, pity them, and claim that they should “put their effort into changing”. just read it out loud and listen to yourself. SERIOUSLY DELUDED!
          as for being judged by your god, one day you will realise that the notion of a creator is simply B.S., but then again you may not. til you die and guess what: nothing hapens.
          then for claiming that I am aggressive, or do not comprehend what you are saying, you are so far off the mark there, but you just do’t realise how IGNORANT you sound.
          guess what JadM, different people are normal. and you picking on them because of what they are, gives me the right to pick on YOU for what YOU are. it’s not right, but now you see how it feels. Live and let live, and judge not…

        2. In_a_Mosh Avatar

          JadM, your words are hatered even if you dont know it (yet). It is probably not your fault but that of your society. You buddy, may represent all that is wrong with Lebanese society. Just because someone is different, you judge them, pity them, and claim that they should “put their effort into changing”. just read it out loud and listen to yourself. SERIOUSLY DELUDED!
          as for being judged by your god, one day you will realise that the notion of a creator is simply B.S., but then again you may not. til you die and guess what: nothing hapens.
          then for claiming that I am aggressive, or do not comprehend what you are saying, you are so far off the mark there, but you just do’t realise how IGNORANT you sound.
          guess what JadM, different people are normal. and you picking on them because of what they are, gives me the right to pick on YOU for what YOU are. it’s not right, but now you see how it feels. Live and let live, and judge not…

    2. In_a_Mosh Avatar

      No JadM, it is NOT your right to think and feel whatever you want if what you think and feel is hatered, and this is. how bloody dare you say you feel sorry for gay people. Gay people do NOT need your pity.
      and being gay is not like being disabled, and anyway, if I was gay or disabled I wouldnt want your or anyone’s pity, I’d still work hard to become BETTER THAN YOU, as I am.
      You’re a liar if you think that you have “a few gay friends”. pull the other one you plonker.
      and just for the record, there has been thousands of gods throughout history. all are made up.. not real.. do not exist.. and if they did exist, then they deserve shooting for allowing the world to get to state when the likes of YOU can have an opinion.

  4. MetalKing

    Some people are born handicapped too, did they choose to be handicapped? yet you will find most of them trying to cope withtheir situation and even try to overcome the limitations their condition imposes on them. Having said that, I believe that being gay is just like having a handicap that you need to overcome. It happened that I have a few gay freinds from both genders and they are generally cool people to hang around with just like any other normal/straight human beings, so i hold no hatred to them as humanbeings with the same reasoning i would have for a handicapped….i just feel sorry for both….it is my right to think and feel whatever i want.

    I do worship a God who is the only God. He has created the Universe out of nothing and I will day in God’s will believing so

    1.  Avatar

      No JadM, it is NOT your right to think and feel whatever you want if what you think and feel is hatered, and this is. how bloody dare you say you feel sorry for gay people. Gay people do NOT need your pity.

      and being gay is not like being disabled, and anyway, if I was gay or disabled I wouldnt want your or anyone’s pity, I’d still work hard to become BETTER THAN YOU, as I am.

      You’re a liar if you think that you have “a few gay friends”. pull the other one you plonker.

      and just for the record, there has been thousands of gods throughout history. all are made up.. not real.. do not exist.. and if they did exist, then they deserve shooting for allowing the world to get to state when the likes of YOU can have an opinion.

      1. First I do not hate gay people, if i say they abnormal that doesn’t mean I hate them. Second of all it is my right to believe what I want and at the end of the day we all will be judged by our creator wether you believe in God or not.

        I have noticed that you seek to insult the ones who disagree with you and despite your insults I am still giving you the benefit of doubt that underneath this agressive person that you are there are some brains in your head to reason with.

        Gays are not normal people, they are different it is as simple as that, let us just leave it at that as you are not able to comprehend what I am saying, you are just a scared little man for me.

        As for your disbelief in God that is your personal opinion and as i said before we will all be judged at the end…i am getting ready for that day in my own way…

        1.  Avatar

          JadM, your words are hatered even if you dont know it (yet). It is probably not your fault but that of your society. You buddy, may represent all that is wrong with Lebanese society. Just because someone is different, you judge them, pity them, and claim that they should “put their effort into changing”. just read it out loud and listen to yourself. SERIOUSLY DELUDED!

          as for being judged by your god, one day you will realise that the notion of a creator is simply B.S., but then again you may not. til you die and guess what: nothing hapens.

          then for claiming that I am aggressive, or do not comprehend what you are saying, you are so far off the mark there, but you just do’t realise how IGNORANT you sound.

          guess what JadM, different people are normal. and you picking on them because of what they are, gives me the right to pick on YOU for what YOU are. it’s not right, but now you see how it feels. Live and let live, and judge not…

  5. Leborigine Avatar
    Leborigine

    Sydney definitely does not have a problem with gays as it is the gay capital of Australia, but it does have a problem with Lebo’s, as they have turned it from a beautiful city into a southern suburb of Beirut!!

    1. Hi Leborigine you’re not wrong about lebos converting where they live into mini lebo ghettos. Here in Melbourne they’ve totally ruined the value of the areas they live in. They think it’s beirut and have been knocking each other off with drive bys and assassination style hits. Gays in Melbourne are preferred over Lebanese too.

      1. Leborigine Avatar

        Hi LebAust, I totally agree. I lived in Sydney during the 90’s when Danny Karam and his boys ran the Cross along with Ibrahim. It was terryifying and you couldn’t walk the Cross without watching your back.
        I live in Melbourne now and it is the same crap, Lebanese families killing each other for control.
        Wherever they go they leave a trail of destruction, and us, the hard working tax payers have to pay for the consequences.

  6.  Avatar

    Sydney definitely does not have a problem with gays as it is the gay capital of Australia, but it does have a problem with Lebo’s, as they have turned it from a beautiful city into a southern suburb of Beirut!!

    1.  Avatar

      Hi Leborigine you’re not wrong about lebos converting where they live into mini lebo ghettos. Here in Melbourne they’ve totally ruined the value of the areas they live in. They think it’s beirut and have been knocking each other off with drive bys and assassination style hits. Gays in Melbourne are preferred over Lebanese too.

      1.  Avatar

        Hi LebAust, I totally agree. I lived in Sydney during the 90’s when Danny Karam and his boys ran the Cross along with Ibrahim. It was terryifying and you couldn’t walk the Cross without watching your back.

        I live in Melbourne now and it is the same crap, Lebanese families killing each other for control.

        Wherever they go they leave a trail of destruction, and us, the hard working tax payers have to pay for the consequences.

    2.  Avatar

      Hi Leborigine you’re not wrong about lebos converting where they live into mini lebo ghettos. Here in Melbourne they’ve totally ruined the value of the areas they live in. They think it’s beirut and have been knocking each other off with drive bys and assassination style hits. Gays in Melbourne are preferred over Lebanese too.

    3.  Avatar

      Hi Leborigine you’re not wrong about lebos converting where they live into mini lebo ghettos. Here in Melbourne they’ve totally ruined the value of the areas they live in. They think it’s beirut and have been knocking each other off with drive bys and assassination style hits. Gays in Melbourne are preferred over Lebanese too.

  7. I guess balls are in style now

    i dont believe this fools story about being persecuted in libon for the love of balls because 80% of libonais men dress, act, talk and bend in gay fashion, so he should go back to libon and feel right at home.

  8.  Avatar

    I guess balls are in style now

    i dont believe this fools story about being persecuted in libon for the love of balls because 80% of libonais men dress, act, talk and bend in gay fashion, so he should go back to libon and feel right at home.

  9. you guys need to calm down… both of you are full of hatred and anger, and none of you is respecting one another. King, if you’re looking for respect, u need to find a peaceful way to talk and stand for your beliefs, the way you talk shows anger and aggressivity and it doesnt bring anything on your side, on the contrary it makes you weaker and makes people think that somewhere what is being said to you is touching you, so if it’s not, let go and smile to the world, its the strongest weapon. And Jad, your talking about God – God is Love, God is acceptance and forgiveness, He loves us just the way we are, but he does want us to be better, but back at his time, he even loved the sinner, and he died for us sinners – so when u talk about God, make sure to follow his path, cuz its ur duty as a christian to do so, and by that i mean love and accept all around you, you are no one to judge, leave that to him. The way you brought the subject up doesnt help anyone who does not have the same opinion see and touch what ur beliefs give you of virtues. I myself also believe in God and believe that God created man and woman to collied, but i also do have a lot of gay friends, one of them my best friend, and its not by attacking them nor judging them that i can share with them my beliefs. I love them, accept them, never judge them and try to pass on a message without being pushy, and at the end of the day God did create man to be free.
    But most of all i try to show the presence of God, and that is Love.

    1. CarlaLiban Avatar

      Gorgeous Mira !!! i wish that one day every lebanese will be able to think and talk the way u did !! with all respect and acceptance and Love !! am touched beyond words 🙂
      like u said , God is love

    2. Dear Mira,

      In my belief God is forgiving, but t be forgived you need to believe in him first and seek his forgivenss when you sin second. So I do disagree with you when you say that God loves sinners and stop…..not unless those sinners saught his forgiveness and He accepted his repention….. anyways we are going off track here.

      For me God created everything and He has sent his prophets and messengers to teach us how he would liked to be believed in and worshiped….Jesus son of Virgin Marry peace be upon him is a prohpet and a slave of God just like the rest of his brothers the prophets before him and prohit Mohammad peace be upon him who came after Jesus. Henceforth, I do not believe in a God who dies as this is not a characteristic of a God, God is the all merciful and capable of doing anything he wants.

      I do agree with you in one thing though, MetalKing needs to calm down and stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with him is full of hatred…. I am obviously not a Christian, does that make me hate christians as human beings? No, i just does not share the same belief and again, God will judge us all at the end and He will reward or punish his creatures as He sees fit. Meanwhile, I choose to live my life in peace which for me is the greatest form of love and appreciation of life.

      1. JadM,
        Gays are born that way. Scientific evidence is piling up pretty much the same way as transsexuals are born in the wrong body and by Islamic laws they are allowed to have a surgery and change their sex. Gays struggle with their sexual orientation and usually it takes them years before they accept who they are. The same way we are attracted to the opposite sex they are attracted to the same sex. It has been that way since the beginning of times LONG before the Jews invented YAHWEH and LONG before Christianity and certainly LONG before Islam which is based on the same jewish stupidity and myth. Look at your text which believes in a virgin birth vilifying sex as dirty. Humans need to procreate and Jesus like other humans was born the same way and the idea that virginity is essential to a clean soul is so pathetic that both Christianity and Islam look at the topic from an angle of backwardness. The Jewish books were full of mythical stories and Islam built upon them believing in all that myth like Adam and Eve who had two sons and then by a miracle humanity started out of incest. If those books are so right why don’t they speak of the humans who existed along side with intelligent and ritualistic Neanderthals who buried their dead and that modern humans not only coexisted with Neanderthals for thousands of years, as anthropologists have established, but they also cohabited and had sexual relations as Neanderthal genes are found in modern humans. How come all the three religions which were built out of myth were copied from ancient mesopotamia and Egyptian mythology never mentioned the “other” intelligent humanoids who wandered the Earth?
        Also, there is a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam and you fail to see its importance and that is the way the Christians view their relationship with God as opposed to Islam. Here lies the essence of it all and NOT the story of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection and his ONENESS with God and the Spirit BUT with the relationship of a Christian with his God of being a father-like to us all as opposed to Islam where it asks you to submit and be a slave to God. The way you view God without spirituality is blinding you to look at other sects and at people who are different than you as second to you is so backward and pathetically condescending that tells everyone in this forum the keyboard militant you are.

        1. Hannibal,

          Do not give yourself the right or attempt to fool anyone by sounding like an expert on the religion of Islam. Your so delusional if you think that Islam was built on a myth let alone that it is based of the Torat or the Engeel. It is true though that there are some common areas that all three books coincide with, yet that doesn’t make the Enjeel for instant based on the Torat for instance.

          As for you saying about me: ‘ The way you view God without spirituality is blinding you, etc…..’ it seems you miss the point here entirely as a considerble amount of religion is based on faith, you cannot possibly have proper faith if you entirely lack spirituality…

          We take pride in Islam to be the slaves of Allah … only to Allah, you obviously have a long way to go before you start understanding the religion of Islam, so for now do us a favour and don’t preach about a religion you do not understand anything about and stick to what you know best…..nothing

      2. uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh JadM I struck a nerve about your blind faith which is JUST THAT, BLIND!!! It is funny you did not attempt to answer me scientifically because if you will look in the religious books for an answer GOOD LUCK. LOL Although you pretend you are a homo sapiens you are still a homo Habilis (read it in Arabic).
        So how about another puzzle, the Koran copies the story of Noah from the Torah. Now explain to me again how a small boat was able to hold over 2 million species?

        1. Hannibal,

          You want science….well scientifically explain to me how this world came to existance, explain to me how the Quaraan in several areas predicted things that have already happened not longtime ago and things that are still happening, explain to me the scientifically proven miracles of the Quaraan….man developed technologically a lot and still they are barely capable to cope with the amount of things the Quraan is teaching them. If you have spent the time to learn the Quraan you wouldn’t be saying what you are saying, at the least you will learn to respect the creater of the Quaraan….GOD.
          As for prophit Noah, peace be upon him and all God’s prophets and messengers before and after him, at his time there were no 2 million species to begin with, and even if there were the God who created the Universe and all creatures is very well capable to teaching Noah how to build an Arch to contain all the species he wanted to preserve from the flood.

          Who gave Jesus the power to heal the blind and resurrect the dead, who gave all the prophets before him the variuos powers to do miracles in God’s will to prove the truth about their message…..it is God. Can you prove this scientifically? can you prove any miracle scientifically? the answer will always be no…miracles are called like that because it is beyond Human beings capacity of comprehension and knowledge and it is simply a fact that man are not capable to those miracles on his own.

          If me believing in the teachings of Islam makes me blind to you and others like you then I am happy being blind, deaf and mute so long as i maintain my faith in Allah and strengthen it.

          As I said before a part of religion is faith, Allah yihdeek ew yohsin kitamona

          Salam

        2. Hannibal,

          You want science….well scientifically explain to me how this world came to existance, explain to me how the Quaraan in several areas predicted things that have already happened not longtime ago and things that are still happening, explain to me the scientifically proven miracles of the Quaraan….man developed technologically a lot and still they are barely capable to cope with the amount of things the Quraan is teaching them. If you have spent the time to learn the Quraan you wouldn’t be saying what you are saying, at the least you will learn to respect the creater of the Quaraan….GOD.
          As for prophit Noah, peace be upon him and all God’s prophets and messengers before and after him, at his time there were no 2 million species to begin with, and even if there were the God who created the Universe and all creatures is very well capable to teaching Noah how to build an Arch to contain all the species he wanted to preserve from the flood.

          Who gave Jesus the power to heal the blind and resurrect the dead, who gave all the prophets before him the variuos powers to do miracles in God’s will to prove the truth about their message…..it is God. Can you prove this scientifically? can you prove any miracle scientifically? the answer will always be no…miracles are called like that because it is beyond Human beings capacity of comprehension and knowledge and it is simply a fact that man are not capable to those miracles on his own.

          If me believing in the teachings of Islam makes me blind to you and others like you then I am happy being blind, deaf and mute so long as i maintain my faith in Allah and strengthen it.

          As I said before a part of religion is faith, Allah yihdeek ew yohsin kitamona

          Salam

        3. JadM
          Now that I got your attention, it is not God neither the Qoran nor Islam that I have a problem with but the way you understand them. I believe in God the creator but by intelligent scientific design NOT by myth “sha3waze” and “kun fa kaana” the Miracle is not unexplainable phenomena like healing out of the blue but life itself and the fact I am writing these lines to you and the physical universe IS the MIRACLE. God is within this Physical world and his creation abides by scientific and physical laws that we as a miracle can understand and replicate them by experimentations. Sticking to the munzal is my problem with you as HE gave you the mind to change the world and not abide by old customs and myths. Jesus said: “what you write on Earth will be written in Heaven” giving man (as he believed in God’s creation) the power to change things and the Qoran said: “ya rabbi zedni 3elman” it never said “ya Qoran 3alemni”. Salam

    3. Dear Mira,

      In my belief God is forgiving, but t be forgived you need to believe in him first and seek his forgivenss when you sin second. So I do disagree with you when you say that God loves sinners and stop…..not unless those sinners saught his forgiveness and He accepted his repention….. anyways we are going off track here.

      For me God created everything and He has sent his prophets and messengers to teach us how he would liked to be believed in and worshiped….Jesus son of Virgin Marry peace be upon him is a prohpet and a slave of God just like the rest of his brothers the prophets before him and prohit Mohammad peace be upon him who came after Jesus. Henceforth, I do not believe in a God who dies as this is not a characteristic of a God, God is the all merciful and capable of doing anything he wants.

      I do agree with you in one thing though, MetalKing needs to calm down and stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with him is full of hatred…. I am obviously not a Christian, does that make me hate christians as human beings? No, i just does not share the same belief and again, God will judge us all at the end and He will reward or punish his creatures as He sees fit. Meanwhile, I choose to live my life in peace which for me is the greatest form of love and appreciation of life.

      1. JadM,
        Gays are born that way. Scientific evidence is piling up pretty much the same way as transsexuals are born in the wrong body and by Islamic laws they are allowed to have a surgery and change their sex. Gays struggle with their sexual orientation and usually it takes them years before they accept who they are. The same way we are attracted to the opposite sex they are attracted to the same sex. It has been that way since the beginning of times LONG before the Jews invented YAHWEH and LONG before Christianity and certainly LONG before Islam which is based on the same jewish stupidity and myth. Look at your text which believes in a virgin birth vilifying sex as dirty. Humans need to procreate and Jesus like other humans was born the same way and the idea that virginity is essential to a clean soul is so pathetic that both Christianity and Islam look at the topic from an angle of backwardness. The Jewish books were full of mythical stories and Islam built upon them believing in all that myth like Adam and Eve who had two sons and then by a miracle humanity started out of incest. If those books are so right why don’t they speak of the humans who existed along side with intelligent and ritualistic Neanderthals who buried their dead and that modern humans not only coexisted with Neanderthals for thousands of years, as anthropologists have established, but they also cohabited and had sexual relations as Neanderthal genes are found in modern humans. How come all the three religions which were built out of myth were copied from ancient mesopotamia and Egyptian mythology never mentioned the “other” intelligent humanoids who wandered the Earth?
        Also, there is a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam and you fail to see its importance and that is the way the Christians view their relationship with God as opposed to Islam. Here lies the essence of it all and NOT the story of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection and his ONENESS with God and the Spirit BUT with the relationship of a Christian with his God of being a father-like to us all as opposed to Islam where it asks you to submit and be a slave to God. The way you view God without spirituality is blinding you to look at other sects and at people who are different than you as second to you is so backward and pathetically condescending that tells everyone in this forum the keyboard militant you are.

  10. you guys need to calm down… both of you are full of hatred and anger, and none of you is respecting one another. King, if you’re looking for respect, u need to find a peaceful way to talk and stand for your beliefs, the way you talk shows anger and aggressivity and it doesnt bring anything on your side, on the contrary it makes you weaker and makes people think that somewhere what is being said to you is touching you, so if it’s not, let go and smile to the world, its the strongest weapon. And Jad, your talking about God – God is Love, God is acceptance and forgiveness, He loves us just the way we are, but he does want us to be better, but back at his time, he even loved the sinner, and he died for us sinners – so when u talk about God, make sure to follow his path, cuz its ur duty as a christian to do so, and by that i mean love and accept all around you, you are no one to judge, leave that to him. The way you brought the subject up doesnt help anyone who does not have the same opinion see and touch what ur beliefs give you of virtues. I myself also believe in God and believe that God created man and woman to collied, but i also do have a lot of gay friends, one of them my best friend, and its not by attacking them nor judging them that i can share with them my beliefs. I love them, accept them, never judge them and try to pass on a message without being pushy, and at the end of the day God did create man to be free.
    But most of all i try to show the presence of God, and that is Love.

    1.  Avatar

      Gorgeous Mira !!! i wish that one day every lebanese will be able to think and talk the way u did !! with all respect and acceptance and Love !! am touched beyond words 🙂

      like u said , God is love

    2. Dear Mira,

      In my belief God is forgiving, but t be forgived you need to believe in him first and seek his forgivenss when you sin second. So I do disagree with you when you say that God loves sinners and stop…..not unless those sinners saught his forgiveness and He accepted his repention….. anyways we are going off track here.

      For me God created everything and He has sent his prophets and messengers to teach us how he would liked to be believed in and worshiped….Jesus son of Virgin Marry peace be upon him is a prohpet and a slave of God just like the rest of his brothers the prophets before him and prohit Mohammad peace be upon him who came after Jesus. Henceforth, I do not believe in a God who dies as this is not a characteristic of a God, God is the all merciful and capable of doing anything he wants.

      I do agree with you in one thing though, MetalKing needs to calm down and stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with him is full of hatred…. I am obviously not a Christian, does that make me hate christians as human beings? No, i just does not share the same belief and again, God will judge us all at the end and He will reward or punish his creatures as He sees fit. Meanwhile, I choose to live my life in peace which for me is the greatest form of love and appreciation of life.

      1. JadM,
        Gays are born that way. Scientific evidence is piling up pretty much the same way as transsexuals are born in the wrong body and by Islamic laws they are allowed to have a surgery and change their sex. Gays struggle with their sexual orientation and usually it takes them years before they accept who they are. The same way we are attracted to the opposite sex they are attracted to the same sex. It has been that way since the beginning of times LONG before the Jews invented YAHWEH and LONG before Christianity and certainly LONG before Islam which is based on the same jewish stupidity and myth. Look at your text which believes in a virgin birth vilifying sex as dirty. Humans need to procreate and Jesus like other humans was born the same way and the idea that virginity is essential to a clean soul is so pathetic that both Christianity and Islam look at the topic from an angle of backwardness. The Jewish books were full of mythical stories and Islam built upon them believing in all that myth like Adam and Eve who had two sons and then by a miracle humanity started out of incest. If those books are so right why don’t they speak of the humans who existed along side with intelligent and ritualistic Neanderthals who buried their dead and that modern humans not only coexisted with Neanderthals for thousands of years, as anthropologists have established, but they also cohabited and had sexual relations as Neanderthal genes are found in modern humans. How come all the three religions which were built out of myth were copied from ancient mesopotamia and Egyptian mythology never mentioned the “other” intelligent humanoids who wandered the Earth?
        Also, there is a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam and you fail to see its importance and that is the way the Christians view their relationship with God as opposed to Islam. Here lies the essence of it all and NOT the story of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection and his ONENESS with God and the Spirit BUT with the relationship of a Christian with his God of being a father-like to us all as opposed to Islam where it asks you to submit and be a slave to God. The way you view God without spirituality is blinding you to look at other sects and at people who are different than you as second to you is so backward and pathetically condescending that tells everyone in this forum the keyboard militant you are.

        1. Hannibal,

          Do not give yourself the right or attempt to fool anyone by sounding like an expert on the religion of Islam. Your so delusional if you think that Islam was built on a myth let alone that it is based of the Torat or the Engeel. It is true though that there are some common areas that all three books coincide with, yet that doesn’t make the Enjeel for instant based on the Torat for instance.

          As for you saying about me: ‘ The way you view God without spirituality is blinding you, etc…..’ it seems you miss the point here entirely as a considerble amount of religion is based on faith, you cannot possibly have proper faith if you entirely lack spirituality…

          We take pride in Islam to be the slaves of Allah … only to Allah, you obviously have a long way to go before you start understanding the religion of Islam, so for now do us a favour and don’t preach about a religion you do not understand anything about and stick to what you know best…..nothing

      2. uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh JadM I struck a nerve about your blind faith which is JUST THAT, BLIND!!! It is funny you did not attempt to answer me scientifically because if you will look in the religious books for an answer GOOD LUCK. LOL Although you pretend you are a homo sapiens you are still a homo Habilis (read it in Arabic).
        So how about another puzzle, the Koran copies the story of Noah from the Torah. Now explain to me again how a small boat was able to hold over 2 million species?

        1. Hannibal,

          You want science….well scientifically explain to me how this world came to existance, explain to me how the Quaraan in several areas predicted things that have already happened not longtime ago and things that are still happening, explain to me the scientifically proven miracles of the Quaraan….man developed technologically a lot and still they are barely capable to cope with the amount of things the Quraan is teaching them. If you have spent the time to learn the Quraan you wouldn’t be saying what you are saying, at the least you will learn to respect the creater of the Quaraan….GOD.

          As for prophit Noah, peace be upon him and all God’s prophets and messengers before and after him, at his time there were no 2 million species to begin with, and even if there were the God who created the Universe and all creatures is very well capable to teaching Noah how to build an Arch to contain all the species he wanted to preserve from the flood.

          Who gave Jesus the power to heal the blind and resurrect the dead, who gave all the prophets before him the variuos powers to do miracles in God’s will to prove the truth about their message…..it is God. Can you prove this scientifically? can you prove any miracle scientifically? the answer will always be no…miracles are called like that because it is beyond Human beings capacity of comprehension and knowledge and it is simply a fact that man are not capable to those miracles on his own.

          If me believing in the teachings of Islam makes me blind to you and others like you then I am happy being blind, deaf and mute so long as i maintain my faith in Allah and strengthen it.

          As I said before a part of religion is faith, Allah yihdeek ew yohsin kitamona

          Salam

        2. JadM
          Now that I got your attention, it is not God neither the Qoran nor Islam that I have a problem with but the way you understand them. I believe in God the creator but by intelligent scientific design NOT by myth “sha3waze” and “kun fa kaana” the Miracle is not unexplainable phenomena like healing out of the blue but life itself and the fact I am writing these lines to you and the physical universe IS the MIRACLE. God is within this Physical world and his creation abides by scientific and physical laws that we as a miracle can understand and replicate them by experimentations. Sticking to the munzal is my problem with you as HE gave you the mind to change the world and not abide by old customs and myths. Jesus said: “what you write on Earth will be written in Heaven” giving man (as he believed in God’s creation) the power to change things and the Qoran said: “ya rabbi zedni 3elman” it never said “ya Qoran 3alemni”. Salam

  11. Hasnnibal,

    Your problem is that you are not able to understand the greatness of God through his creation, He wills things into exisistence it is as simple as this, no science we know can confine God ya Hannibal. Get to learn the teachings of Islam from a scholar adn you will be surprised how deviated you are from the real truths in this world. Any knowledge you and anyone else have we have gained by the grace of God, that is why we say Rabbi Zidni 3elman at least understand the true meaning of the sentence before you use it.

    I do not need science to have a strong faith in Allah, believe it or not i am pretty well educated and western raised, science was one way i used to have this strong faith….you need to read and learn about the scientifuc miracles of the Quraan and you will be surprised at the least to know how off track you were.

    One last thing, do you realize that the Quraan itself is a living miracle that the science you are referring to is still not able to confine it…..actuallly the more science is advancing the clearer some of the versus in the Quraan is understood, then again you seem to be stubborn and skeptical to even put the effort to drill into that….

    again Allah Yehdeek

    1. Allah hadeene men zameen and he gave me the brain xatta ana ehdiik.
      You say he wills things into existence so why bother with this existence if it is not one with the will.
      You want to live in the ether so be it. Unlike you I do not believe that you will be punished for what you believe in but you will be judged by your deeds. God will open his arms to a gay who does good and feed the poor and house the homeless wider, MUCH wider than an idiot who praises him and yet helps nobody. Unlike you who would say if God wishes it He would feed all the hungry in this world out of will I say to you that God has already given us more resources than one would EVER need but those resources are hogged by the few (including the rich moslem Arabs) who are swimming in their unhealthy fat yet their neighbors in Africa starve to death.
      One last thing, to you the Qoran is the miracle and the written spoken word is the last word. That had a time and place to launch Islam in that particular time and place and it is not absolute. When Earth was believed was flat the written word (through men) embraced it as the truth and now it is only logical to evolve and revise it.
      What you practice is historical Islam and not Islam. The dinosaurs were also in the past. Move on…
      That is the last answer in this thread regarding this topic because unlike you I accept your beliefs but you will never accept mine laqannak ma7duud like the myth you live and believe in.

      1. The Quraan is still a living miracle and it shall remain so….science is advancing and the more it does the more my words proves to be valid.

        you say you accept my beleifs and I kinda get confused here on how to accpet my beliefs if they contradict with your words that are full of disbelief. A good believer willl ACT on his faith and hence his deeds come as a result of his faith. If for example I feed children and raise them to kill the innocent does that make my deed GOOD, absolutley not becuase I am feeding children with the intent of making them terrorists….so is a good muslim….he should have proper faith and feed and help others to make them better people and hence his DEED will be deemed good based on his faith and good intentions behind doing a good deed.

        You blame rich muslim arabs and so do i, at least we agree on something 🙂 But i do also blame other non muslims who controll the entire world economies too, don’t you think they are more capable of helping ?

        I can live around gays and lezbo and all sorts of abnormal people regardless to their sexual orientation and I will continue to be good with them just like i treat normal people regardless to their faith, but i don’t really have to accpet the part in them that contradicts with my beliefs….i dont expect anyone to except mine either, so I don’t believe that makes me limited or fanatic in any ways.

        I appreciate one think in you Hannibal, your tone changed a bit and became more positive and less offensive and I appreciate that.

        Allah yehdeek ew yehdeena

        1. As I said “hogged by the few” meant everyone who does, not only rich Arabs. I was like you believe it or not when it came to homosexuality when I was young. That stemmed from ignorance. I later learned that they were at a very young age like that and it is not something they can help the same way you and I are attracted to the opposite sex they are born that way. I spoke to some and they told me that they struggled with their feelings and they know it is “aberrant” as it defies the purpose of procreation. Here is where I draw the line though. If God created them that way, are they to be judged by the same God who created them? Many of them would love to have children and live a normal life but it is not what they feel inside and they struggle with this and eventually accept it. I have seen many too many parents trying to “cure” their homosexual kids to no avail. It is not a disease to be cured. It is like you want to cure a man for being straight, how stupid is that? Believe you and me if there were cures for homosexuality the gays and lesbians would stand in line to receive it. It is really not by choice they are who they are.

          1. am not denying that some might be born like that, but it remains to be an abnormality. What really makes me wonder is why this lebanese guy resorted to the Australia based on the allegation that he is being prosecuted which i do not believe is the case in Lebanon. He used is abnormal condition as an excuse to get a visa and this is what I do not like the most. Being straight is not something to be proud of on its own neither is being gay. You don’t brag for being straight now do you? why should gays do that then…..GAY AND PROUD, ever heard of this before.

            What am I supposed to tell my child when he sees two men kissing? By the least if someone is gay and cannot help being gay because he/she is “biologically gay” then let them be a bit discreet about it.

          2. NOW I do agree with you JadM fully… I do not want it in my face neither. Well my 11 year old boy says “yeewwww” when he sees two men kissing in public and I am not hiding the fact that I am happy that he likes girls but advocating that they are perverts and then punish them for being gay is not right neither.

          3. I find it really appoling to see any gay act, i also find it appoling to see anything getting mistreated even if this someone is my enemy. I believe evryone should receive a fair treatment regardless to his beliefs…. God is fair and does not do injustice. If someone is Gay by choice then it is not exeptable and the soceity should not encourage it by allowing gay to pratice their sexual freedom in public. Do you realize how many people are gay by choice?

            As for the biological gays, i am sorry but i cannot say it is ok to do it with another man as it is not, but by the least let it be behind closed doors.

          4. I find it really appoling to see any gay act, i also find it appoling to see anything getting mistreated even if this someone is my enemy. I believe evryone should receive a fair treatment regardless to his beliefs…. God is fair and does not do injustice. If someone is Gay by choice then it is not exeptable and the soceity should not encourage it by allowing gay to pratice their sexual freedom in public. Do you realize how many people are gay by choice?

            As for the biological gays, i am sorry but i cannot say it is ok to do it with another man as it is not, but by the least let it be behind closed doors.

        2. As I said “hogged by the few” meant everyone who does, not only rich Arabs. I was like you believe it or not when it came to homosexuality when I was young. That stemmed from ignorance. I later learned that they were at a very young age like that and it is not something they can help the same way you and I are attracted to the opposite sex they are born that way. I spoke to some and they told me that they struggled with their feelings and they know it is “aberrant” as it defies the purpose of procreation. Here is where I draw the line though. If God created them that way, are they to be judged by the same God who created them? Many of them would love to have children and live a normal life but it is not what they feel inside and they struggle with this and eventually accept it. I have seen many too many parents trying to “cure” their homosexual kids to no avail. It is not a disease to be cured. It is like you want to cure a man for being straight, how stupid is that? Believe you and me if there were cures for homosexuality the gays and lesbians would stand in line to receive it. It is really not by choice they are who they are.

          1. am not denying that some might be born like that, but it remains to be an abnormality. What really makes me wonder is why this lebanese guy resorted to the Australia based on the allegation that he is being prosecuted which i do not believe is the case in Lebanon. He used is abnormal condition as an excuse to get a visa and this is what I do not like the most. Being straight is not something to be proud of on its own neither is being gay. You don’t brag for being straight now do you? why should gays do that then…..GAY AND PROUD, ever heard of this before.

            What am I supposed to tell my child when he sees two men kissing? By the least if someone is gay and cannot help being gay because he/she is “biologically gay” then let them be a bit discreet about it.

      2. Hannibal get over it. You sound like a piece of software coughing up the code embedded within you by this so called ‘modern society’. At a time when society had an ounce of religion in them, homosexuals were deemed scum of society and condemned to death. Ironically, every nation is classified with a religion (even though they use no portion of it) and homosexuality is condemned by all religions but now they have discovered a “gay gene” so now science supersedes religion. “it’s not their fault they are born gay”.. You and these deceitful scientists can shove this hypothesis back where you found it because you will realise you never found it. You want to talk about science Hannibal? If we are the subject of evolution, then why aren’t animals born ‘homosexuals’? Amazing. When a peacock flares out its’ feathers, does it aspire to get the attention of its same or opposite agenda? Some twisted people engage in lewd acts with children and animals these days and society considers it sickening just like homosexuality was once labelled, but it’s people like you who will one day promote the “paedophilia” and “animal” gene!

        You want to talk about science Hannibal? Why is it when I place a compass on the ground, the needle will always point to the North Pole? Interesting isn’t it. Because the earth and everything in it is made up of atoms and atoms have a magnetic charge. Therefore, the earth will have a magnetic charge hence the North and South Pole but why does the needle point to the North Pole? That’s right Hannibal you guessed it. The fundamental law of magnetism states that opposites attract. According to whom? According to scientists.. So if you believe in science Hannibal, how it is that you can still believe in homosexuals? Opposites attract don’t they? Humans are made of atoms aren’t they? You said it yourself, “the same way you and I are attracted to the opposite sex “…

        Before you belittle people about their stance towards homosexuals, enquire as to why the earth itself rejects the notion of homosexuals you ignorant human being!

        1. Nagdella,
          you are an ignorant low life suggesting homosexuality is like paedophilia. Your argument is childish, what are you a teenager? la ma3luumeetik ya zakiyee, animals have homosexuality and MOST cows are lesbians. Also the bull never lays with the same cow twice that is why the farmers keep swapping bulls between farms. That is adultery so by your twisted logic if adultery is “normal” within animals then it should be permitted as a practice for humans. I mean you are disgusting to compare humans to animals. But again you may be just that an ignorant animal.

        2. Leborigine Avatar

          I do not want to get involved in this debate, but gay animals do exist. This list includes birds, mammals, insects, fish etc. for which there is documented evidence of homosexual or transgender behavior of one or more of the following kinds: sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, or parenting, as noted in researcher and author Bruce Bagemihl’s 1999 book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity.
          One of the more interesting pieces comes from National Geographic. Written by James Owen, the article mentions several instances of animals engaging in homosexual behavior. Two male penguins at New York’s Central Park Zoo, Roy and Silo, have been “inseparable” for six years and have sex “while ignoring potential female mates.” Other examples cited include male ostriches, flamingos, and female Japanese macaques.

          In regards to the compass example, if you are in the Bermuda Triangle and other certain places on earth, the compass will point anywhere but North. That is also very well documented and proven.

        3. Leborigine Avatar

          I do not want to get involved in this debate, but gay animals do exist. This list includes birds, mammals, insects, fish etc. for which there is documented evidence of homosexual or transgender behavior of one or more of the following kinds: sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, or parenting, as noted in researcher and author Bruce Bagemihl’s 1999 book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity.
          One of the more interesting pieces comes from National Geographic. Written by James Owen, the article mentions several instances of animals engaging in homosexual behavior. Two male penguins at New York’s Central Park Zoo, Roy and Silo, have been “inseparable” for six years and have sex “while ignoring potential female mates.” Other examples cited include male ostriches, flamingos, and female Japanese macaques.

          In regards to the compass example, if you are in the Bermuda Triangle and other certain places on earth, the compass will point anywhere but North. That is also very well documented and proven.

        4. Leborigine, It’s nice to know that your copy/paste function works and Wikipedia is readily available but there was a little section that your paste function must’ve ‘forgot’ to add,
          “In 2005, Roy and Silo separated, after some six years of paired behavior, with Roy remaining single. Silo found another partner, a female called Scrappy”.
          The more reason that your homosexuality theory is whitewash. You see, people have a tendency of wanting to compare animals with humans in some aspects but not in all aspects but the fact is, we are completely different breeds mentally and physically and until you can grasp this concept, you are going to continue thinking in a backward manner. Some people will observe two human males hugging each other in an affectionate manner and label that as ‘homosexual behaviour’ then see animals doing the same thing and derive that animals are like humans. However it is far from it. Humans have been given intelligence superior to any creature on earth. Look at how a tiny human being can suppress a lion or an elephant.

          And this is what separates humans from animals. Intelligence. A male dog will approach another male dog because of its limited intelligence. The dog like nature is a beastly nature and when you mix that with limited intelligence, the rear of a male dog looks similar to that of a female dog. Which is why your reference Bruce Bagemihl labels it as ‘homosexual behaviour’ and not “gay animals” the way you described it. Animals do a lot of absurd acts such as eating their newborns or eating their feces. Do you want to rationalize that too?

          “In regards to the compass example, if you are in the Bermuda Triangle and other certain places on earth, the compass will point anywhere but North. That is also very well documented and proven.”

          What is your point? What does that prove? Have you measured the polarity state in the Bermuda Triangle? Does this disprove the laws of attraction?

        5. Leborigine, It’s nice to know that your copy/paste function works and Wikipedia is readily available but there was a little section that your paste function must’ve ‘forgot’ to add,
          “In 2005, Roy and Silo separated, after some six years of paired behavior, with Roy remaining single. Silo found another partner, a female called Scrappy”.
          The more reason that your homosexuality theory is whitewash. You see, people have a tendency of wanting to compare animals with humans in some aspects but not in all aspects but the fact is, we are completely different breeds mentally and physically and until you can grasp this concept, you are going to continue thinking in a backward manner. Some people will observe two human males hugging each other in an affectionate manner and label that as ‘homosexual behaviour’ then see animals doing the same thing and derive that animals are like humans. However it is far from it. Humans have been given intelligence superior to any creature on earth. Look at how a tiny human being can suppress a lion or an elephant.

          And this is what separates humans from animals. Intelligence. A male dog will approach another male dog because of its limited intelligence. The dog like nature is a beastly nature and when you mix that with limited intelligence, the rear of a male dog looks similar to that of a female dog. Which is why your reference Bruce Bagemihl labels it as ‘homosexual behaviour’ and not “gay animals” the way you described it. Animals do a lot of absurd acts such as eating their newborns or eating their feces. Do you want to rationalize that too?

          “In regards to the compass example, if you are in the Bermuda Triangle and other certain places on earth, the compass will point anywhere but North. That is also very well documented and proven.”

          What is your point? What does that prove? Have you measured the polarity state in the Bermuda Triangle? Does this disprove the laws of attraction?

        6. Hannibal, haha your comment made my day.

          “MOST cows are lesbians”
          Now I know why there is a shortage of cows in the world 😉

          “Also the bull never lays with the same cow twice that is why the farmers keep swapping bulls between farms. That is adultery so by your twisted logic if adultery is “normal” within animals then it should be permitted as a practice for humans.”

          LOL what has adultery got anything to do with homosexuals?? What are you proving to me? That bulls get around?

          “you are an ignorant low life suggesting homosexuality is like pedophilia.”

          Did I say that? I was just showing you that you are promoting an act that was deemed repulsive at one stage in time. At the moment you find disgust in pedophilia, but one day if society finds it acceptable the way homosexuality was not accepted, it’s people like you who will be promoting it.

          Who’s the low ignorant low life? According to your logic it’s you!

          1. Paedophiles are hurting kids for the fact that it is non-consensual one way unethical act. Homosexuality is consensual, and they never hurt others. Marrying many women on the other hand is condescending, disrespectful, and outright wrong.
            You compared humans to animals, not I. I am simply listing the fact that your example was utterly stupid. As far as there is no shortage of cows it tells me now that you are a city girl. Cows have been artificially and forcefully inseminated by humans to keep them pregnant so they produce milk. Left alone, they will display lesbian acts and prefer it to mating with bulls who incidentally force themselves on cows. No ma ra7 yotlob iida 😛

        7. Leborigine Avatar

          Why highlight my copy and paste technique when the debate is about homosexuality??
          Are you that bored and sad Einstein!
          If I put it in my own words does it make it more feasable .A fact is a fact, whether you like it or not.
          The only reason I C & P is because I couldn’t be bothered.
          So now your honour, are you gonnna sentence me for plagiarism.
          Anyway, I stick to what I said before, I am not getting involved in this debate and I won’t get dragged into it either.

        8. Leborigine, your copy and paste technique isn’t the problem. It’s the fact that you chose to copy and paste a selected portion to work in favor of your purpose while eliminating the crucial element of your penguin fantasy. And then you say “I couldn’t be bothered” which tells me you have done little to no research on the issue and slapped the first thing that appeared in your google results just to convince yourself that ‘gay animals’ exist.

          Never the less, no one dragged you into this debate so don’t play the victim. Next time put your 2 cents in your money box!

        9. Leborigine, your copy and paste technique isn’t the problem. It’s the fact that you chose to copy and paste a selected portion to work in favor of your purpose while eliminating the crucial element of your penguin fantasy. And then you say “I couldn’t be bothered” which tells me you have done little to no research on the issue and slapped the first thing that appeared in your google results just to convince yourself that ‘gay animals’ exist.

          Never the less, no one dragged you into this debate so don’t play the victim. Next time put your 2 cents in your money box!

        10. Hannibal, I compared animals to humans so as to explain to you evolution in the scientific perspective but you on the other hand are giving me the similitudes of animals and humans. Something of which I have distanced myself from.

          “it tells me now that you are a city girl”
          And there you go again Hannibal. Your perverted mind assuming I am female. No Hannibal I know about artificial FORCEFULL insemination the same way bulls FORCE themselves on cows.

          “Left alone, they will display lesbian acts and prefer it to mating with bulls”

          When I see a male dog mating with a male dog, I call that an animalistic act. I don’t know where your mind is wondering son!

        11. Hannibal, I compared animals to humans so as to explain to you evolution in the scientific perspective but you on the other hand are giving me the similitudes of animals and humans. Something of which I have distanced myself from.

          “it tells me now that you are a city girl”
          And there you go again Hannibal. Your perverted mind assuming I am female. No Hannibal I know about artificial FORCEFULL insemination the same way bulls FORCE themselves on cows.

          “Left alone, they will display lesbian acts and prefer it to mating with bulls”

          When I see a male dog mating with a male dog, I call that an animalistic act. I don’t know where your mind is wondering son!

        12. Leborigine Avatar

          Hahahahah, very funny!!
          I do not have to justify myself to you.
          The only thing I slapped on was just to prove wrong the only statement in your initial post which was ‘animals are not gay”. Then you wondered off into your own world.
          Nevertheless, hahahahahahhahahahahahaha very funny……..2 cents……….box…..victim………… couldn’t stop laughing hahahahhahahahahahahahahah very creative…………hahahahahahahah

        13. Leborigine Avatar

          Hahahahah, very funny!!
          I do not have to justify myself to you.
          The only thing I slapped on was just to prove wrong the only statement in your initial post which was ‘animals are not gay”. Then you wondered off into your own world.
          Nevertheless, hahahahahahhahahahahahaha very funny……..2 cents……….box…..victim………… couldn’t stop laughing hahahahhahahahahahahahahah very creative…………hahahahahahahah

    2. Allah hadeene men zameen and he gave me the brain xatta ana ehdiik.
      You say he wills things into existence so why bother with this existence if it is not one with the will.
      You want to live in the ether so be it. Unlike you I do not believe that you will be punished for what you believe in but you will be judged by your deeds. God will open his arms to a gay who does good and feed the poor and house the homeless wider, MUCH wider than an idiot who praises him and yet helps nobody. Unlike you who would say if God wishes it He would feed all the hungry in this world out of will I say to you that God has already given us more resources than one would EVER need but those resources are hogged by the few (including the rich moslem Arabs) who are swimming in their unhealthy fat yet their neighbors in Africa starve to death.
      One last thing, to you the Qoran is the miracle and the written spoken word is the last word. That had a time and place to launch Islam in that particular time and place and it is not absolute. When Earth was believed was flat the written word (through men) embraced it as the truth and now it is only logical to evolve and revise it.
      What you practice is historical Islam and not Islam. The dinosaurs were also in the past. Move on…
      That is the last answer in this thread regarding this topic because unlike you I accept your beliefs but you will never accept mine laqannak ma7duud like the myth you live and believe in.

  12. Hasnnibal,

    Your problem is that you are not able to understand the greatness of God through his creation, He wills things into exisistence it is as simple as this, no science we know can confine God ya Hannibal. Get to learn the teachings of Islam from a scholar adn you will be surprised how deviated you are from the real truths in this world. Any knowledge you and anyone else have we have gained by the grace of God, that is why we say Rabbi Zidni 3elman at least understand the true meaning of the sentence before you use it.

    I do not need science to have a strong faith in Allah, believe it or not i am pretty well educated and western raised, science was one way i used to have this strong faith….you need to read and learn about the scientifuc miracles of the Quraan and you will be surprised at the least to know how off track you were.

    One last thing, do you realize that the Quraan itself is a living miracle that the science you are referring to is still not able to confine it…..actuallly the more science is advancing the clearer some of the versus in the Quraan is understood, then again you seem to be stubborn and skeptical to even put the effort to drill into that….

    again Allah Yehdeek

    1. Allah hadeene men zameen and he gave me the brain xatta ana ehdiik.
      You say he wills things into existence so why bother with this existence if it is not one with the will.
      You want to live in the ether so be it. Unlike you I do not believe that you will be punished for what you believe in but you will be judged by your deeds. God will open his arms to a gay who does good and feed the poor and house the homeless wider, MUCH wider than an idiot who praises him and yet helps nobody. Unlike you who would say if God wishes it He would feed all the hungry in this world out of will I say to you that God has already given us more resources than one would EVER need but those resources are hogged by the few (including the rich moslem Arabs) who are swimming in their unhealthy fat yet their neighbors in Africa starve to death.
      One last thing, to you the Qoran is the miracle and the written spoken word is the last word. That had a time and place to launch Islam in that particular time and place and it is not absolute. When Earth was believed was flat the written word (through men) embraced it as the truth and now it is only logical to evolve and revise it.
      What you practice is historical Islam and not Islam. The dinosaurs were also in the past. Move on…
      That is the last answer in this thread regarding this topic because unlike you I accept your beliefs but you will never accept mine laqannak ma7duud like the myth you live and believe in.

      1. The Quraan is still a living miracle and it shall remain so….science is advancing and the more it does the more my words proves to be valid.

        you say you accept my beleifs and I kinda get confused here on how to accpet my beliefs if they contradict with your words that are full of disbelief. A good believer willl ACT on his faith and hence his deeds come as a result of his faith. If for example I feed children and raise them to kill the innocent does that make my deed GOOD, absolutley not becuase I am feeding children with the intent of making them terrorists….so is a good muslim….he should have proper faith and feed and help others to make them better people and hence his DEED will be deemed good based on his faith and good intentions behind doing a good deed.

        You blame rich muslim arabs and so do i, at least we agree on something 🙂 But i do also blame other non muslims who controll the entire world economies too, don’t you think they are more capable of helping ?

        I can live around gays and lezbo and all sorts of abnormal people regardless to their sexual orientation and I will continue to be good with them just like i treat normal people regardless to their faith, but i don’t really have to accpet the part in them that contradicts with my beliefs….i dont expect anyone to except mine either, so I don’t believe that makes me limited or fanatic in any ways.

        I appreciate one think in you Hannibal, your tone changed a bit and became more positive and less offensive and I appreciate that.

        Allah yehdeek ew yehdeena

        1. As I said “hogged by the few” meant everyone who does, not only rich Arabs. I was like you believe it or not when it came to homosexuality when I was young. That stemmed from ignorance. I later learned that they were at a very young age like that and it is not something they can help the same way you and I are attracted to the opposite sex they are born that way. I spoke to some and they told me that they struggled with their feelings and they know it is “aberrant” as it defies the purpose of procreation. Here is where I draw the line though. If God created them that way, are they to be judged by the same God who created them? Many of them would love to have children and live a normal life but it is not what they feel inside and they struggle with this and eventually accept it. I have seen many too many parents trying to “cure” their homosexual kids to no avail. It is not a disease to be cured. It is like you want to cure a man for being straight, how stupid is that? Believe you and me if there were cures for homosexuality the gays and lesbians would stand in line to receive it. It is really not by choice they are who they are.

          1. am not denying that some might be born like that, but it remains to be an abnormality. What really makes me wonder is why this lebanese guy resorted to the Australia based on the allegation that he is being prosecuted which i do not believe is the case in Lebanon. He used is abnormal condition as an excuse to get a visa and this is what I do not like the most. Being straight is not something to be proud of on its own neither is being gay. You don’t brag for being straight now do you? why should gays do that then…..GAY AND PROUD, ever heard of this before.

            What am I supposed to tell my child when he sees two men kissing? By the least if someone is gay and cannot help being gay because he/she is “biologically gay” then let them be a bit discreet about it.

          2. NOW I do agree with you JadM fully… I do not want it in my face neither. Well my 11 year old boy says “yeewwww” when he sees two men kissing in public and I am not hiding the fact that I am happy that he likes girls but advocating that they are perverts and then punish them for being gay is not right neither.

          3. I find it really appoling to see any gay act, i also find it appoling to see anything getting mistreated even if this someone is my enemy. I believe evryone should receive a fair treatment regardless to his beliefs…. God is fair and does not do injustice. If someone is Gay by choice then it is not exeptable and the soceity should not encourage it by allowing gay to pratice their sexual freedom in public. Do you realize how many people are gay by choice?

            As for the biological gays, i am sorry but i cannot say it is ok to do it with another man as it is not, but by the least let it be behind closed doors.

          4. am not denying that some might be born like that, but it remains to be an abnormality. What really makes me wonder is why this lebanese guy resorted to the Australia based on the allegation that he is being prosecuted which i do not believe is the case in Lebanon. He used is abnormal condition as an excuse to get a visa and this is what I do not like the most. Being straight is not something to be proud of on its own neither is being gay. You don’t brag for being straight now do you? why should gays do that then…..GAY AND PROUD, ever heard of this before.

            What am I supposed to tell my child when he sees two men kissing? By the least if someone is gay and cannot help being gay because he/she is “biologically gay” then let them be a bit discreet about it.

      2.  Avatar

        Hannibal get over it. You sound like a piece of software coughing up the code embedded within you by this so called ‘modern society’. At a time when society had an ounce of religion in them, homosexuals were deemed scum of society and condemned to death. Ironically, every nation is classified with a religion (even though they use no portion of it) and homosexuality is condemned by all religions but now they have discovered a “gay gene” so now science supersedes religion. “it’s not their fault they are born gay”.. You and these deceitful scientists can shove this hypothesis back where you found it because you will realise you never found it. You want to talk about science Hannibal? If we are the subject of evolution, then why aren’t animals born ‘homosexuals’? Amazing. When a peacock flares out its’ feathers, does it aspire to get the attention of its same or opposite agenda? Some twisted people engage in lewd acts with children and animals these days and society considers it sickening just like homosexuality was once labelled, but it’s people like you who will one day promote the “paedophilia” and “animal” gene!

        You want to talk about science Hannibal? Why is it when I place a compass on the ground, the needle will always point to the North Pole? Interesting isn’t it. Because the earth and everything in it is made up of atoms and atoms have a magnetic charge. Therefore, the earth will have a magnetic charge hence the North and South Pole but why does the needle point to the North Pole? That’s right Hannibal you guessed it. The fundamental law of magnetism states that opposites attract. According to whom? According to scientists.. So if you believe in science Hannibal, how it is that you can still believe in homosexuals? Opposites attract don’t they? Humans are made of atoms aren’t they? You said it yourself, “the same way you and I are attracted to the opposite sex “…

        Before you belittle people about their stance towards homosexuals, enquire as to why the earth itself rejects the notion of homosexuals you ignorant human being!

        1. Nagdella,
          you are an ignorant low life suggesting homosexuality is like paedophilia. Your argument is childish, what are you a teenager? la ma3luumeetik ya zakiyee, animals have homosexuality and MOST cows are lesbians. Also the bull never lays with the same cow twice that is why the farmers keep swapping bulls between farms. That is adultery so by your twisted logic if adultery is “normal” within animals then it should be permitted as a practice for humans. I mean you are disgusting to compare humans to animals. But again you may be just that an ignorant animal.

        2.  Avatar

          I do not want to get involved in this debate, but gay animals do exist. This list includes birds, mammals, insects, fish etc. for which there is documented evidence of homosexual or transgender behavior of one or more of the following kinds: sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, or parenting, as noted in researcher and author Bruce Bagemihl’s 1999 book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity.

          One of the more interesting pieces comes from National Geographic. Written by James Owen, the article mentions several instances of animals engaging in homosexual behavior. Two male penguins at New York’s Central Park Zoo, Roy and Silo, have been “inseparable” for six years and have sex “while ignoring potential female mates.” Other examples cited include male ostriches, flamingos, and female Japanese macaques.

          In regards to the compass example, if you are in the Bermuda Triangle and other certain places on earth, the compass will point anywhere but North. That is also very well documented and proven.

        3.  Avatar

          Leborigine, It’s nice to know that your copy/paste function works and Wikipedia is readily available but there was a little section that your paste function must’ve ‘forgot’ to add,

          “In 2005, Roy and Silo separated, after some six years of paired behavior, with Roy remaining single. Silo found another partner, a female called Scrappy”.

          The more reason that your homosexuality theory is whitewash. You see, people have a tendency of wanting to compare animals with humans in some aspects but not in all aspects but the fact is, we are completely different breeds mentally and physically and until you can grasp this concept, you are going to continue thinking in a backward manner. Some people will observe two human males hugging each other in an affectionate manner and label that as ‘homosexual behaviour’ then see animals doing the same thing and derive that animals are like humans. However it is far from it. Humans have been given intelligence superior to any creature on earth. Look at how a tiny human being can suppress a lion or an elephant.

          And this is what separates humans from animals. Intelligence. A male dog will approach another male dog because of its limited intelligence. The dog like nature is a beastly nature and when you mix that with limited intelligence, the rear of a male dog looks similar to that of a female dog. Which is why your reference Bruce Bagemihl labels it as ‘homosexual behaviour’ and not “gay animals” the way you described it. Animals do a lot of absurd acts such as eating their newborns or eating their feces. Do you want to rationalize that too?

          “In regards to the compass example, if you are in the Bermuda Triangle and other certain places on earth, the compass will point anywhere but North. That is also very well documented and proven.”

          What is your point? What does that prove? Have you measured the polarity state in the Bermuda Triangle? Does this disprove the laws of attraction?

        4.  Avatar

          Hannibal, haha your comment made my day.

          “MOST cows are lesbians”

          Now I know why there is a shortage of cows in the world 😉

          “Also the bull never lays with the same cow twice that is why the farmers keep swapping bulls between farms. That is adultery so by your twisted logic if adultery is “normal” within animals then it should be permitted as a practice for humans.”

          LOL what has adultery got anything to do with homosexuals?? What are you proving to me? That bulls get around?

          “you are an ignorant low life suggesting homosexuality is like pedophilia.”

          Did I say that? I was just showing you that you are promoting an act that was deemed repulsive at one stage in time. At the moment you find disgust in pedophilia, but one day if society finds it acceptable the way homosexuality was not accepted, it’s people like you who will be promoting it.

          Who’s the low ignorant low life? According to your logic it’s you!

          1. Paedophiles are hurting kids for the fact that it is non-consensual one way unethical act. Homosexuality is consensual, and they never hurt others. Marrying many women on the other hand is condescending, disrespectful, and outright wrong.
            You compared humans to animals, not I. I am simply listing the fact that your example was utterly stupid. As far as there is no shortage of cows it tells me now that you are a city girl. Cows have been artificially and forcefully inseminated by humans to keep them pregnant so they produce milk. Left alone, they will display lesbian acts and prefer it to mating with bulls who incidentally force themselves on cows. No ma ra7 yotlob iida 😛

        5.  Avatar

          Why highlight my copy and paste technique when the debate is about homosexuality??

          Are you that bored and sad Einstein!

          If I put it in my own words does it make it more feasable .A fact is a fact, whether you like it or not.

          The only reason I C & P is because I couldn’t be bothered.

          So now your honour, are you gonnna sentence me for plagiarism.

          Anyway, I stick to what I said before, I am not getting involved in this debate and I won’t get dragged into it either.

        6.  Avatar

          Leborigine, your copy and paste technique isn’t the problem. It’s the fact that you chose to copy and paste a selected portion to work in favor of your purpose while eliminating the crucial element of your penguin fantasy. And then you say “I couldn’t be bothered” which tells me you have done little to no research on the issue and slapped the first thing that appeared in your google results just to convince yourself that ‘gay animals’ exist.

          Never the less, no one dragged you into this debate so don’t play the victim. Next time put your 2 cents in your money box!

        7.  Avatar

          Hannibal, I compared animals to humans so as to explain to you evolution in the scientific perspective but you on the other hand are giving me the similitudes of animals and humans. Something of which I have distanced myself from.

          “it tells me now that you are a city girl”

          And there you go again Hannibal. Your perverted mind assuming I am female. No Hannibal I know about artificial FORCEFULL insemination the same way bulls FORCE themselves on cows.

          “Left alone, they will display lesbian acts and prefer it to mating with bulls”

          When I see a male dog mating with a male dog, I call that an animalistic act. I don’t know where your mind is wondering son!

        8.  Avatar

          Hahahahah, very funny!!

          I do not have to justify myself to you.

          The only thing I slapped on was just to prove wrong the only statement in your initial post which was ‘animals are not gay”. Then you wondered off into your own world.

          Nevertheless, hahahahahahhahahahahahaha very funny……..2 cents……….box…..victim………… couldn’t stop laughing hahahahhahahahahahahahahah very creative…………hahahahahahahah

  13. Metalking does not understand Lebanese society. Our Political system is based on CONSTANT CompromiseS , HOWEVER our SOCIAL system REQUIRES PEOPLE TO FIT INTO THE WILL and IDEAS OF THE “CURRENT” MAJORITY- (THAT’S ASSUMING THERE REALLY IS ONE in our Country!!).. Our Society favours, AND ENJOYS, “FASHIONABLE STATEMENTS AND DECISIONS” whether it be political or societal in nature eg enjoying the best products if you have the money, and looking sharp when it matters…. and a general ideaology of hoping the “Other Person improves on themselves in order to “FIT IN” which is not entirely different from what is expected of most people living in ALL countries of the World…….of course this leads to certain problems when dealing with regional issues, or the world at large- it also depends who we are really addressing… Most Lebanese would understand what I mean by all this…It is not easy to explain ALL this to People who “MAY” have little or NO Contact with Our Society.. Our Country has its problems, but so does the rest of the World. We hope our existence here on the face of this earth eventually leads to a situation that makes things better for Everyone. Regards

  14.  Avatar

    Metalking does not understand Lebanese society. Our Political system is based on CONSTANT CompromiseS , HOWEVER our SOCIAL system REQUIRES PEOPLE TO FIT INTO THE WILL and IDEAS OF THE “CURRENT” MAJORITY- (THAT’S ASSUMING THERE REALLY IS ONE in our Country!!).. Our Society favours, AND ENJOYS, “FASHIONABLE STATEMENTS AND DECISIONS” whether it be political or societal in nature eg enjoying the best products if you have the money, and looking sharp when it matters…. and a general ideaology of hoping the “Other Person improves on themselves in order to “FIT IN” which is not entirely different from what is expected of most people living in ALL countries of the World…….of course this leads to certain problems when dealing with regional issues, or the world at large- it also depends who we are really addressing… Most Lebanese would understand what I mean by all this…It is not easy to explain ALL this to People who “MAY” have little or NO Contact with Our Society.. Our Country has its problems, but so does the rest of the World. We hope our existence here on the face of this earth eventually leads to a situation that makes things better for Everyone. Regards

  15. I must give my observation that the comments of Hannibal, Jad and Nagdella,
    and the insults back and forth are extremely impressive!!! LOL!!!!

    This Blog Would be a GREAT SKETCH For a Movie or Comedy, however the movie itself would definitely be banned in certain “TOLERANT ” countries… (if you know what I mean)…. and maybe Hannibal himself would be targetted for promoting SEVERE FREE SPEECH which is contrary to certain values!! HANNIBAL, You certainly did not Learn the History of Carthage… NEVER FIGHT AGAINST THE CURRENT UNLESS YOU CAN WIN, AND CERTAINLY NEVER FIGHT WITHOUT A PLAN “B” LOL!!! GOOD LUCKKKK!!!!

  16. I must give my observation that the comments of Hannibal, Jad and Nagdella,
    and the insults back and forth are extremely impressive!!! LOL!!!!

    This Blog Would be a GREAT SKETCH For a Movie or Comedy, however the movie itself would definitely be banned in certain “TOLERANT ” countries… (if you know what I mean)…. and maybe Hannibal himself would be targetted for promoting SEVERE FREE SPEECH which is contrary to certain values!! HANNIBAL, You certainly did not Learn the History of Carthage… NEVER FIGHT AGAINST THE CURRENT UNLESS YOU CAN WIN, AND CERTAINLY NEVER FIGHT WITHOUT A PLAN “B” LOL!!! GOOD LUCKKKK!!!!

  17.  Avatar

    I must give my observation that the comments of Hannibal, Jad and Nagdella,
    and the insults back and forth are extremely impressive!!! LOL!!!!

    This Blog Would be a GREAT SKETCH For a Movie or Comedy, however the movie itself would definitely be banned in certain “TOLERANT ” countries… (if you know what I mean)…. and maybe Hannibal himself would be targetted for promoting SEVERE FREE SPEECH which is contrary to certain values!! HANNIBAL, You certainly did not Learn the History of Carthage… NEVER FIGHT AGAINST THE CURRENT UNLESS YOU CAN WIN, AND CERTAINLY NEVER FIGHT WITHOUT A PLAN “B” LOL!!! GOOD LUCKKKK!!!!

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