Chomsky says U.S. to Veto Palestinian Statehood Bid, interview

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President Obama publicly confirmed Monday that the United States will oppose any attempt by the Palestinians to achieve statehood at the United Nations, but Palestinians leaders are still vowing to move ahead with their bid for statehood this week.

What will the ramifications of a U.S. veto be? For more, we speak with Massachusetts Institute of Technology Professor Emeritus Noam Chomsky. “If the Palestinians do bring the issue to the Security Council and the U.S. vetoes it, it will be just another indication of the real unwillingness to permit a settlement of this issue, in terms of what has been for a long time an overwhelming international consensus,” Chomsky says. [includes rush transcript]

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Noam Chomsky, Professor Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has written over a hundred books, has just returned from Norway and Iceland. His latest book, 9-11: Was There an Alternative?

As the Palestinian Authority launched its bid for statehood recognition at the U.N. last week, the Obama administration confirmed it would veto any statehood measure that came before the Security Council. This is State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland.

VICTORIA NULAND: It should not come as a shock to anyone in this room that the U.S. opposes a move in New York by the Palestinians to try to establish a state that can only be achieved through negotiations. So, yes, if something comes to a vote in the U.N. Security Council, the U.S. will veto.

AMY GOODMAN: And President Obama has affirmed this. Noam Chomsky, your response?

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, unfortunately, it’s quite consistent with past practice. The list of U.S. vetoes at the Security Council to protect Israeli aggression and occupation is huge. The most recent one, which actually got some attention because it was so outlandish, was last February, when Obama vetoed a Security Council resolution endorsing official U.S. policy. Look at the resolution. Its core part was opposing expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank. That’s supposed to be U.S. policy. Obama vetoed it. If the Palestinians do bring the issue to the Security Council and the U.S. vetoes it, it will be just another indication of the real unwillingness to permit a settlement of this issue, in terms of what has been for a long time an overwhelming international consensus.

And this goes back a long time. The first relevant U.S. veto was in January 1976, 35 years ago. The major Arab states, so-called confrontation states—Syria, Egypt, Jordan—brought a resolution to the Security Council calling for a two-state settlement on the international border. And then the resolution incorporated the basic wording of U.N. 242, which everyone agrees, at least in theory, is the basic Security Council document, called for recognition of the rights of every state in the region—that would include Israel, a new Palestinian state—to exist in peace and security within secure and recognized boundaries—wording approximately like that. U.S. vetoed it. Another veto in 1980, a similar resolution. A long series since of—then things shifted to the General Assembly, where there are almost annual votes with, you know, numbers like 150 to three, and so on—U.S., Israel, sometimes a Pacific island, El Salvador. And this is just continuing right up to the present.

There are pretty ugly ones, too. The U.S. has blocked ceasefire efforts at the time of Israeli attacks. In fact, Obama himself—you can take a look at his—I don’t know if he still has it, but in his website prior to the election, there was a section on the Middle East. And it’s worth looking at. It gives you an indication of what’s been happening since. It’s full of, you know, adoration of Israel. You expect that. Practically not a word about the Palestinians, a few phrases saying maybe they should have some rights. But that was right in the middle of the latest Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006, a brutal, murderous invasion, without any credible pretext—you can go into that—actually, the fifth such invasion. And Obama took pride, in his webpage, in having co-sponsored a Senate resolution, right in the middle of the invasion, insisting that nothing be done to impede Israel’s attack in Lebanon and that the U.S. should censure and maybe sanction anyone who tried to interfere with it—Iran and Syria. So, let them—they must be able to go on to achieve their objectives, of killing a thousand Lebanese, again, destroying a strong a large part of the country, and so on. That’s Obama. When he—during the—after he was elected, Israel attacked Gaza, major attack on Gaza, late December 2008 right through January 2009. Obama was—I’m sure your listeners are familiar with that horrible, atrocious attack. The United States blocked efforts at the Security Council to establish a ceasefire to end the atrocities. Obama was repeatedly asked would he say something about it. His answer was, “There’s only one president. I can’t say anything about it.” He was saying all sorts of other things, but not this.

AARON MATÉ: And Noam—

NOAM CHOMSKY: Actually, his—

AARON MATÉ: Noam—

NOAM CHOMSKY: —campaign—

AARON MATÉ: We only have a few minutes, so I want to cut you off to get in a few more questions—

NOAM CHOMSKY: OK.

AARON MATÉ: —actually, one last question—

NOAM CHOMSKY: OK.

AARON MATÉ: —if we have time, which is that you’ve written about what it would mean for Israel and the U.S. if this statehood bid is passed at the U.N. And, of course, this debate is coming up very soon, scheduled to take place at the General Assembly in the coming weeks. What would it mean if the U.N. passes statehood for the Palestinians?

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, that’s really up to us to decide. I mean, it could be—there could be a very harsh reaction on the part of the United States and Israel. The Congress, U.S. Congress, has already declared that it’s going to cut off funding, wants to cut off funding to the Palestinian Authority. Israel controls much of their funds through control of customs, transfer of finance. They all go through Israel. They could cut it off. The Palestinians could be in very serious economic trouble, financial trouble, if the U.S. and Israel, acting jointly, react to any kind of statehood bid by simply cutting off the funding on which they rely. Israel, for decades, has prevented any independent development, serious economic development, in the territories. There is—you know, the numbers show economic growth. It’s highly reliant on outside aid. It’s very artificial. And that could be a very serious blow to the Palestinians. The role that Egypt plays will also be significant, especially with regard to Gaza. My guess is that some kind of compromise position will be worked out, which will provide enhanced observer status to the Palestinians at the United Nations, maybe short of what would trigger U.S. and Israel from simply pulling out the rug from under their survival. It could be worse than that, in fact.

AMY GOODMAN: Noam, we have to leave it there. We have to leave it there for the global show, but we’re going to continue, and people can go to our website for our web exclusive at democracynow.org. Noam Chomsky, Professor Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. His latest book is 9-11: Was There an Alternative? You can go to our website for our other web exclusive, “9/11 Decade,” that showcases our vast archive of in-depth reporting over the last decade.

Democracy Now

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83 responses to “Chomsky says U.S. to Veto Palestinian Statehood Bid, interview”

  1. Patience2 Avatar

    Anyone ever heard of the ‘Israel Lobby’ in the USA??  And the ‘Republicans in Congress’ seem always to be sniffing Israel’s underpants at every opportunity!  Does EVERY person in the USA want the Palestinians out of Israel?? Or just a very powerful ‘some people’??

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      Everything in the USA runs with ‘Lobbies Attached’ … it’s one of the worst aspects of their version of Republican Democracy – and ultimately why ‘Big Business’ runs the show.  Of course, there’s some lobbying to get rid of lobbying. 😉

      1. my friend the 5th has a gooood nose, right you are, follow the money! 😉

  2.  Avatar

    Anyone ever heard of the ‘Israel Lobby’ in the USA??  And the ‘Republicans in Congress’ seem always to be sniffing Israel’s underpants at every opportunity!  Does EVERY person in the USA want the Palestinians out of Israel?? Or just a very powerful ‘some people’??

    1.  Avatar

      Everything in the USA runs with ‘Lobbies Attached’ … it’s one of the worst aspects of their version of Republican Democracy – and ultimately why ‘Big Business’ runs the show.  Of course, there’s some lobbying to get rid of lobbying. 😉

      1. my friend the 5th has a gooood nose, right you are, follow the money! 😉

  3. 5thDrawer Avatar

    Nothing ‘new’ in any of this. We know Israel went into ‘over-kill mode’ several times – in reaction to being attacked, basically.
     The right question is never asked:  If so-called ‘Palestinians’ want their own country, why keep trying to carve up the smallest one in the whole area? Why don’t all the Big-Hearted LARGER countries donate some land to the purpose, put money into the project instead of guns, and let the Palestinians develope it like the Israelis had to do with their piece of dessert after 1948?
      Beyond that, there are areas of Siberia and Mongolia just waiting for the over-population-flow.
     If we’re going to have a ‘World Economy’ anyway, then it’s time for the world to designate areas for new-country creation.
    And just think of the happiness created for land-developers and real-estate agents – and thus the banks – in that concept.

  4.  Avatar

    Nothing ‘new’ in any of this. We know Israel went into ‘over-kill mode’ several times – in reaction to being attacked, basically.
     The right question is never asked:  If so-called ‘Palestinians’ want their own country, why keep trying to carve up the smallest one in the whole area? Why don’t all the Big-Hearted LARGER countries donate some land to the purpose, put money into the project instead of guns, and let the Palestinians develope it like the Israelis had to do with their piece of dessert after 1948?
      Beyond that, there are areas of Siberia and Mongolia just waiting for the over-population-flow.
     If we’re going to have a ‘World Economy’ anyway, then it’s time for the world to designate areas for new-country creation.
    And just think of the happiness created for land-developers and real-estate agents – and thus the banks – in that concept.

  5. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    Chomsky’s a disgusting traitor.

    1. 7akibalash Avatar

      chomsky knows what’s good for his pockets, by bashing Israel he can sell millions of books to idiots who are looking for any legitimacy in their barbarian war against the meere existence of Israel.
      he reminds me of those pseudo “scientists” who come out with reports claiming scientific evidence in the quran, they know that muslims will gobble it up and they make money from it.

      chomsky is just another greedy scumbag with no morals.

    2. 7akibalash Avatar

      chomsky knows what’s good for his pockets, by bashing Israel he can sell millions of books to idiots who are looking for any legitimacy in their barbarian war against the meere existence of Israel.
      he reminds me of those pseudo “scientists” who come out with reports claiming scientific evidence in the quran, they know that muslims will gobble it up and they make money from it.

      chomsky is just another greedy scumbag with no morals.

  6. Chomsky’s a disgusting traitor.

    1.  Avatar

      chomsky knows what’s good for his pockets, by bashing Israel he can sell millions of books to idiots who are looking for any legitimacy in their barbarian war against the meere existence of Israel.
      he reminds me of those pseudo “scientists” who come out with reports claiming scientific evidence in the quran, they know that muslims will gobble it up and they make money from it.

      chomsky is just another greedy scumbag with no morals.

  7. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    It’s sort of like claiming that Lahoud represents the Maronites.

  8. Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel Avatar
    Adam Yonatan Ben Yoel

    It’s sort of like claiming that Lahoud represents the Maronites.

  9. It’s sort of like claiming that Lahoud represents the Maronites.

  10. unfortunately Veto by the US will backfire and the Muslim world will be outraged further instigating more hate, why not stay out of it and abstain Mr Obama

    1. 7akibalash Avatar

      “Muslim world will be outraged further instigating more hate ” we can get the same effect by drawing the nasty child molestor mohamed on a piece of paper… pacifying savages doesnt work, never worked and never will, they understand the language of the stick only, so give them the stick, they beg for it all the time.

      1. wow, be careful…the truth about history is a very inconvenient place for many.

  11.  Avatar

    unfortunately Veto by the US will backfire and the Muslim world will be outraged further instigating more hate, why not stay out of it and abstain Mr Obama

    1.  Avatar

      “Muslim world will be outraged further instigating more hate ” we can get the same effect by drawing the nasty child molestor mohamed on a piece of paper… pacifying savages doesnt work, never worked and never will, they understand the language of the stick only, so give them the stick, they beg for it all the time.

      1.  Avatar

        wow, be careful…the truth about history is a very inconvenient place for many.

  12. Justicefor Avatar

    I see so much ignorance about this issue it is mind boggling. No matter what is said & done now, the truth will come out and justice will prevail. It just a matter of time.

    The US is no longer the leader of the world and becoming closer to a third world country. The Arab/Muslim world in awakening and dictators are being removed. Zionist will pay dearly and the Jewish will live peacefully in the Middle East.

    1. LEBANON101 Avatar

      the us is close to becoming a third world country? go to silicone valley than go to Somalia and tell me how close they are

      1. Justicefor Avatar

        I said “close to becoming” not is. Give it time and it will if it keeps the same path. With so much debt, poverty, and political turmoil, it is destined to be.

        The Zionist have only the US left for support and that is dwindling fast in both tangible and non-tangible support.

    2. 7akibalash Avatar

      “Zionist will pay dearly” <<< start with your desert rat deity named allah… read your book for a change you iliterate fool, your deity is the biggest zionist there is, your book(the qurrap) says allah gave the land to the jews, go punish him first 😀

      1. Justicefor Avatar

        The Quar’an says for the Jews to go and live in peace with its inhabitants, not to uproot them or kill them. Your name calling strips you from any credibility. The attempts by Zionists to rewrite history and the brainwashing are no longer working for them. Like Lincoln said “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time”.

         People all over the world are finding out about the real facts, not what the Zionists want them to believe. Other invaders tried dominating the middle east and thy all failed, the Zionists will too.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Errr … doesn’t that mean ‘all’ should live in peace with each other ?? Maybe? A little bit ?? Or … what DID Mohammad mean?

        2. 7akibalash Avatar

          “The Quar’an says for the Jews to go and live in peace with its inhabitants” <<< read your quran you idiot you couldnt be further from the truth, and making shit up wont help you, I will destroy you from your own books.

          5:21
          "O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."
          5:22
          "They said, "O Moses, indeed within it is a people of tyrannical strength, and indeed, we will never enter it until they leave it; but if they leave it, then we will enter."

          5:23
          Said two men from those who feared [to disobey] upon whom Allah had bestowed favor, "Enter upon them through the gate, for when you have entered it, you will be predominant. And upon Allah rely, if you should be believers."

          5:24
          They said, "O Moses, indeed we will not enter it, ever, as long as they are within it; so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here."

          sounds to me like your allah wanted the jews to go and slaughter the inhabitants not live in peace with them… the jews said to moses "so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here" in other words we dont want to fight and kill for you, you go do it.

          if you believe the quran to be true then you must believe that your allah is ordering the jews to take the land he assigned to them(holy land of Israel), this makes your allah a zionist. further more he is ordering them to take it by force, which brings me to my next question, why do you muslims claim to believe in allah and yet oppose his will?
          it is amazing how many muslims never read their own books.

        3. 5thDrawer Avatar

          So you see those old words below … any more comments? Or … maybe Mohammad didn’t translate well?

        4. Justicefor Avatar

          Zionist are at it again trying to rewrite history and even written holly books. No wonder why Zionist are despised everywhere they go.

          It is just as a waste of time arguing with you as the Palestinians negotiating with Zionists.

        5. Justicefor Avatar

          May be you should read some of what Jewish scholars said about Israel & Zionism, like Albert Einstein.

          http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/einstein-on-palestine-and-zionism/

      2.   you may be right about that not all  muslims are readers of the quoran but  i   assure you the majority of christians are not familiar with the bible either, i say this from a position of lengthy experience  and study of the subject and especially the lebanese christians roots and traditions.
        tough subject that can get you in trouble. either way there is no value whatsoever  in using insults against anyones faith, it is a sensitive matter that  should only be discussed in a respectfull maner.

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar

          The Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to do well with memorizing the words 😉 … but then some will say it’s their version.
             All of those ancient texts – over time – have suffered various revisions and translations, and that has undoubtably added to the confusions. On top of that, politics has entered too often into the debates, while language-usage changes over 3000 years muddied certain meanings – and surely led people off any ‘righteous’ path which God may have intended when He gave Moses His only ten lines. (Or was it 4 or 7? Debate on that exists too – Gnostic Gospels/Nag Hammadi)
            Not many have time to read extensively when they are trying to study enough to make a living these days. On top of that, people usually only hear what they wish to hear. (evidence on this blog-site)
            So you are right, Geo – faith is an individual matter – not usually founded on serious study – and no-one should insult another for those human peculiarities … unless, of course, those diametrically oppose the existence of life which God/Allah/TheOne has made.

        2. 5th what are you doing up this late? are you an insomniac too? 😉
           i respect your privacy if you dont want to reveal your location just tell me what time zone you are in  relating to florida .
           besides your calm state of mind  i respect your collection of many drawers. people who think they know every thing  dont feel a need to seek knowlage,, why should they they already know everything.lol 
            thousands of jehovahs witneses were sent to concentration camps by hitler  along with jews for refusing military service  . in israel they were accused of being  nazis, in  the soviet  union they were accused of being  cia agents, in  italy they were accused of not believing in jesus. in lthe seventies they were called zionists in lebanon. after the civil war ended in lebanon many were jailed for refusing service in the military as they are the only group who never participated in any military group. i personaly have interviewed 2 that served jail time in lebanon one having his teeth broken and elecrticuted, yes they are different and unconventional but so were earlier christians.

        3. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Time, Geo – as Einstein noted – is a matter of relativity. 🙂 What you feel is late may instead be early 😉
          But I will confess to sleeping – or checking in here – in small ‘packets’ of time. 🙂

          I believe those Witnesses ‘served’ in one capacity in Allied forces – as medical people and stretcher-bearers. Bravery does not require a gun – I feel in fact that weapons are an aid for those less brave. There were many self-labelled ‘pacifists’ given an opportunity to contribute something for a ‘just cause’ without taking a life.
            There is a place or position for all to contribute something to the human experience, if we let them. Even us weird guys. 🙂

        4. 7akibalash Avatar

          I disagree completely, if the man I drew my morals from was a child molestor/thief/rapist/murderer like mohamed was, I would want people to throw it in my face till I woke up and stopped following such filthy scum.
          to tip toe around that subject doesnt help the muslims one bit, they are in dire need of a revolution against islam along with the dictators. but like always dont expect the truth not to hurt.

        5. 7akibalash,
          life is ramdom in many ways if i was born in italy it is likely i would be catholic, if i was born in iran it is likely i would be shia.if i was born in india  it is likely i would be hindu, i think you get my point. if you really have a desire to help someone out of a false religion your approach  would have  the wrong effect EVERYTME. i know its a free world but  i think you do more damage than repair by judging and condeming  in this fashion as it only appears a s a perosnal attack instead of an outreach to help if in fact that is what you are trying to do.

        6. 7akibalash Avatar

          someone once said : “you want the truth?… you cant handle the truth” I think you know the quote.
          I refuse to sugar coat anything for anyone, if you cant handle following a child molestor and being called a child molestor follower then the bad guy is not me (the messenger) it is the child molestor that you are following and are ashamed of admitting the truth about him.
          treating muslims with kiddie gloves, hahahah let me know how that works out for ya. personally I have taught many muslims and showed them how to think and break the chains of islam, and not to join any other religion but to start using their brains for themselves. dont theorize to me about how to “help muslims” you wouldnt know, its that simple.

      3. 7akibalash, your comments are filthy and disrespectful of an entire religion. How would you like it if this site was a Jew bashing fest where they made jokes about kippahs, bar mitzvahs and purim. If you want to talk about religion then the Talmud is much more violent than the Quran. I really read some verses that would mind boggle most sane people.

        1. 7akibalash Avatar

          “your comments are filthy and disrespectful of an entire religion” << religion is a belief and is not immune to criticism or insults, get that through your pea sized brain.
          FYI I am not jewish, but when you mention the talmud I cant help but notice that you dont even know what the talmud is to begin with. I will help you a bit here : talmud is a scholarly discussions of torah and oral laws. it includes extreme cases as examples for application of torah and oral laws, alot of the stories in the talmud are a figment of the imagination of rabbies to make a point in a legal manner on the application of the laws.
          then it all depends if you are talking about Mishnah or Gemara. that is a long lesson that I dont feel like teaching you, but perhaps you need to do some research before opening your mouth.

          furthermore, if you reject my argument that "allah" the muslim deity gave the Holy Land to the Jews (in the quran) which makes him a zionist(by definition)  then you must show me how you came to such conclusion, i already posted the verses below scroll and read.

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar

          Which is why many people feel they need to get away from those ancient texts … they often don’t fit with modern concepts of humanity.

  13. Justicefor Avatar

    I see so much ignorance about this issue it is mind boggling. No matter what is said & done now, the truth will come out and justice will prevail. It just a matter of time.

    The US is no longer the leader of the world and becoming closer to a third world country. The Arab/Muslim world in awakening and dictators are being removed. Zionist will pay dearly and the Jewish will live peacefully in the Middle East.

    1. LEBANON101 Avatar

      the us is close to becoming a third world country? go to silicone valley than go to Somalia and tell me how close they are

  14.  Avatar

    I see so much ignorance about this issue it is mind boggling. No matter what is said & done now, the truth will come out and justice will prevail. It just a matter of time.

    The US is no longer the leader of the world and becoming closer to a third world country. The Arab/Muslim world in awakening and dictators are being removed. Zionist will pay dearly and the Jewish will live peacefully in the Middle East.

    1.  Avatar

      the us is close to becoming a third world country? go to silicone valley than go to Somalia and tell me how close they are

      1.  Avatar

        I said “close to becoming” not is. Give it time and it will if it keeps the same path. With so much debt, poverty, and political turmoil, it is destined to be.

        The Zionist have only the US left for support and that is dwindling fast in both tangible and non-tangible support.

    2.  Avatar

      “Zionist will pay dearly” <<< start with your desert rat deity named allah… read your book for a change you iliterate fool, your deity is the biggest zionist there is, your book(the qurrap) says allah gave the land to the jews, go punish him first 😀

      1.  Avatar

        The Quar’an says for the Jews to go and live in peace with its inhabitants, not to uproot them or kill them. Your name calling strips you from any credibility. The attempts by Zionists to rewrite history and the brainwashing are no longer working for them. Like Lincoln said “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time”.

         People all over the world are finding out about the real facts, not what the Zionists want them to believe. Other invaders tried dominating the middle east and thy all failed, the Zionists will too.

        1.  Avatar

          Errr … doesn’t that mean ‘all’ should live in peace with each other ?? Maybe? A little bit ?? Or … what DID Mohammad mean?

        2.  Avatar

          Errr … doesn’t that mean ‘all’ should live in peace with each other ?? Maybe? A little bit ?? Or … what DID Mohammad mean?

        3.  Avatar

          Errr … doesn’t that mean ‘all’ should live in peace with each other ?? Maybe? A little bit ?? Or … what DID Mohammad mean?

        4.  Avatar

          “The Quar’an says for the Jews to go and live in peace with its inhabitants” <<< read your quran you idiot you couldnt be further from the truth, and making shit up wont help you, I will destroy you from your own books.

          5:21
          "O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."
          5:22
          "They said, "O Moses, indeed within it is a people of tyrannical strength, and indeed, we will never enter it until they leave it; but if they leave it, then we will enter."

          5:23
          Said two men from those who feared [to disobey] upon whom Allah had bestowed favor, "Enter upon them through the gate, for when you have entered it, you will be predominant. And upon Allah rely, if you should be believers."

          5:24
          They said, "O Moses, indeed we will not enter it, ever, as long as they are within it; so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here."

          sounds to me like your allah wanted the jews to go and slaughter the inhabitants not live in peace with them… the jews said to moses "so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here" in other words we dont want to fight and kill for you, you go do it.

          if you believe the quran to be true then you must believe that your allah is ordering the jews to take the land he assigned to them(holy land of Israel) by force.(this makes allah a zionist by definition).

          it is amazing how many muslims never read their own books.

        5.  Avatar

          So you see those old words below … any more comments? Or … maybe Mohammad didn’t translate well?

        6.  Avatar

          Zionist at again trying to rewrite history and even written a holly books. No wonder why Zionist are despised everywhere they go.

          It is just as a waste of time arguing with you as the Palestinians negotiating with Zionists.

      2.   you may be right about that not all  muslims are readers of the quoran but  i   assure you the majority of christians are not familiar with the bible either, i say this from a position of lengthy experience  and study of the subject and especially the lebanese christians roots and traditions.
        tough subject that can get you in trouble. either way there is no value whatsoever  in using insults against anyones faith, it is a sensitive matter that  should only be discussed in a respectfull maner.

        1.  Avatar

          The Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to do well with memorizing the words 😉 … but then some will say it’s their version.
             All of those ancient texts – over time – have suffered various revisions and translations, and that has undoubtably added to the confusions. On top of that, politics has entered too often into the debates, while language-usage changes over 3000 years muddied certain meanings – and surely led people off any ‘righteous’ path which God may have intended when He gave Moses His only ten lines. (Or was it 4 or 7? Debate on that exists too – Gnostic Gospels/Nag Hammadi)
            Not many have time to read extensively when they are trying to study enough to make a living these days. On top of that, people usually only hear what they wish to hear. (evidence on this blog-site)
            So you are right, Geo – faith is an individual matter – not usually founded on serious study – and no-one should insult another for those human peculiarities … unless, of course, those diametrically oppose the existence of life which God has made.

        2. 5th what are you doing up this late? are you an insomniac too? 😉
           i respect your privacy if you dont want to reveal your location just tell me what time zone you are in  relating to florida .
           besides your calm state of mind  i respect your collection of many drawers. people who think they know every thing  dont feel a need to seek knowlage,, why should they they already know everything.lol 
            thousands of jehovahs witneses were sent to concentration camps by hitler  along with jews for refusing military service  . in israel they were accused of being  nazis, in  the soviet  union they were accused of being  cia agents, in  italy they were accused of not believing in jesus. in lthe seventies they were called zionists in lebanon. after the civil war ended in lebanon many were jailed for refusing service in the military as they are the only group who never participated in any military group. i personaly have interviewed 2 that served jail time in lebanon one having his teeth broken and elecrticuted, yes they are different and unconventional but so were earlier christians.

        3.  Avatar

          Time, Geo – as Einstein noted – is a matter of relativity. 🙂 What you feel is late may instead be early 😉
          But I will confess to sleeping – or checking in here – in small ‘packets’ of time. 🙂

          I believe those Witnesses ‘served’ in one capacity in Allied forces – as medical people and stretcher-bearers. Bravery does not require a gun – I feel in fact that weapons are an aid for those less brave. There were many self-labelled ‘pacifists’ given an opportunity to contribute something for a ‘just cause’ without taking a life.
            There is a place or position for all to contribute something to the human experience, if we let them. Even us weird guys. 🙂

        4.  Avatar

          I disagree completely, if the man I drew my morals from was a child molestor/thief/rapist/murderer like mohamed was, I would want people to throw it in my face till I woke up and stopped following such filthy scum.
          to tip toe around that subject doesnt help the muslims one bit, they are in dire need of a revolution against islam along with the dictators. but like always dont expect the truth not to hurt.

        5. 7akibalash,
          life is ramdom in many ways if i was born in italy it is likely i would be catholic, if i was born in iran it is likely i would be shia.if i was born in india  it is likely i would be hindu, i think you get my point. if you really have a desire to help someone out of a false religion your approach  would have  the wrong effect EVERYTME. i know its a free world but  i think you do more damage than repair by judging and condeming  in this fashion as it only appears a s a perosnal attack instead of an outreach to help if in fact that is what you are trying to do.

        6.  Avatar

          someone once said : “you want the truth?… you cant handle the truth” I think you know the quote.
          I refuse to sugar coat anything for anyone, if you cant handle following a child molestor and being called a child molestor follower then the bad guy is not me (the messenger) it is the child molestor that you are following and are ashamed of admitting the truth about him.
          treating muslims with kiddie gloves, hahahah tell me how that works out for ya. personally I have taught many muslims and showed them how to think and break the chains of islam, and not to join any other religion but to start using their brains for themselves. dont theorize to me about how to “help muslims” you wouldnt know, its that simple.

      3.   you may be right about that not all  muslims are readers of the quoran but  i   assure you the majority of christians are not familiar with the bible either, i say this from a position of lengthy experience  and study of the subject and especially the lebanese christians roots and traditions.
        tough subject that can get you in trouble. either way there is no value whatsoever  in using insults against anyones faith, it is a sensitive matter that  should only be discussed in a respectfull maner.

      4.  Avatar

        7akibalash, your comments are filthy and disrespectful of an entire religion. How would you like it if this site was a Jew bashing fest where they made jokes about kippahs, bar mitzvahs and purim. If you want to talk about religion then the Talmud is much more violent than the Quran. I really read some verses that would mind boggle most sane people.

        1.  Avatar

          “your comments are filthy and disrespectful of an entire religion” << religion is a belief and is not immune from criticism get that through your pea sized brain.
          FYI I am not jewish, but when you mention the talmud I cant help but notice that you dont even know what the talmud is to begin with. I will help you a bit here : talmud is a scholarly discussions of torah and oral laws. it includes extreme cases as examples for application of torah and oral laws, alot of the stories in the talmud are a figment of the imagination of rabbies to make a point in a legal manner on the application of the laws.
          then it all depends if you are talking about Mishnah or Gemara. that is a long lesson that I dont feel like teaching you, but perhaps you need to do some research before opening your mouth.

          furthermore, if you reject my argument that "allah" the muslim deity gave the Holy Land to the Jews (in the quran) which makes him a zionist(by definition)  then you must show me how you came to such conclusion, i already posted the verses below scroll and read.

        2.  Avatar

          Which is why many people feel they need to get away from those ancient texts … they often don’t fit with modern concepts of humanity.

  15. This is not new and it s no surprise!

  16.  Avatar

    This is not new and it s no surprise!

  17.  Avatar

    This is not new and it s no surprise!

  18. 5thDrawer Avatar

    Some people can write just one book, and it’s so good that it funds them for the rest of their lives.
    Some need to keep writing ….
    Maybe the books are as nebulous as this ‘sort-of’ interview.

  19.  Avatar

    Some people can write just one book, and it’s so good that it funds them for the rest of their lives.
    Some need to keep writing ….

  20. AIPAC = America

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar

      Damn Beiruti … now I have to find out what another acronym means !!! 🙁

      (later) Oh … just another Lobby Group.

      1. Haha as they say Mr.5thDrawer, Palestine and Israel are the same ass but different cheek, both of them accuses each other of being the one that was spanked more.

  21. AIPAC = America

  22.  Avatar

    AIPAC = America

    1.  Avatar

      Damn Beiruti … now I have to find out what another acronym means !!! 🙁

      1.  Avatar

        Haha as they say Mr.5thDrawer, Palestine and Israel are the same ass but different cheek, both of them accuses each other of being the one that was spanked more.

  23. Justicefor Avatar

    In response to 7akibalash, I posted few comments with links to references yesterday, so far I haven’t seen them, could you look into and let me know why.

    Those responses and links are important to nullify his absurd claims. Thanks

  24.  Avatar

    In response to 7akibalash, I posted few comments with links to references yesterday, so far I haven’t seen them, could you look into and let me know why.

    Those responses and links are important to nullify his absurd claims. Thanks

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