Syrian war reshaping the Mideast map

In the early 20th century, Syria was part of a region redrawn by outside forces. Today the 3-year-old uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad is generating the outlines of zones of control that could result in the partitioning of the country.
In the early 20th century, Syria was part of a region redrawn by outside forces. Today the 3-year-old uprising against the government of President Bashar al-Assad is generating the outlines of zones of control that could result in the partitioning of the country.

By Liz Sly

AL-QASR, Lebanon — That half of his farm lies in Syria and half in Lebanon is a source of mystery and inconvenience for Mohammed al-Jamal, whose family owned the property long before Europeans turned up and drew the lines that created the borders of the modern Middle East.

Jamal has mostly ignored the invisible frontier that runs a few yards from his house — and so did the Syrian civil war when it erupted nearby. Relatives were kidnapped, neighbors volunteered to fight and shells came crashing in, killing some of his cows, injuring three workers and underlining just how meaningless the border is.

“I blame Sykes-Picot for all of it,” said Jamal, referring to the secret 1916 accord between Britain and France to divide up the remnants of the collapsing Ottoman Empire. The result was the creation of nation-states where none had existed before, cutting across family and community ties and laying the foundations for much of the instability that plagues the region to this day.

Less than a century after they were drawn, the durability of those borders — and the nations they formed — is being tested as never before. The war in Syria is spilling into Iraq, Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan and Israel, sucking in places that for centuries belonged to a single entity and people whose history, faith and livelihoods transcend the nations in which they were born.

Sunnis from across the region are pouring into Syria to fight alongside the rebels, many in pursuit of extremist ideals aimed at restoring Sunni dominion. Shiites from the same countries are flocking to defend President Bashar al-Assad’s Shiite-affiliated regime, compounding the sectarian dimension of a war that no longer is just about Syria.

Civilians are fleeing in the opposite direction, 2.3 million of them to date, transforming communities lying outside Syria in ways that may be irreversible.

“From Iran to Lebanon, there are no borders anymore,” said Walid Jumblatt, the leader of Lebanon’s minority Druze community. “Officially, they are still there, but will they be a few years from now? If there is more dislocation, the whole of the Middle East will crumble.”

Nobody seriously expects existing borders to be formally redrawn as a result of the ongoing upheaval. But as world powers prepare to gather in Switzerland next month for talks aimed at ending the Syrian conflict, this is a moment every bit as profound as the one that followed World War I when the region’s nations were born, said Fawaz Gerges of the London School of Economics.

Already the chaos of Syria’s civil war has muddled the map, creating new frontiers that more closely coincide with the communities they contain. Four flags now fly over the territory known as Syria, representing the competing visions of sect, identity and allegiance that the war has exposed — and the pieces into which it might break.

The outcome could be further fragmentation of the existing states, or perhaps a longer-term consolidation that blurs the borders dividing them, Gerges said.

“Everything is in question now, and it is all very difficult to predict,” he said. “But what we are realizing is that the Middle East state system set up after World War I is coming apart.”

‘Sectarian borders are real’

The modern map of the Middle East was created by Europeans less than a century ago. Today, the conflict in Syria is calling into question the viability of those borders, which were frequently drawn with little regard for local communities. Existing frontiers are being eroded and new ones are starting to emerge in ways that challenge the very existence of the region’s states.
The modern map of the Middle East was created by Europeans less than a century ago. Today, the conflict in Syria is calling into question the viability of those borders, which were frequently drawn with little regard for local communities. Existing frontiers are being eroded and new ones are starting to emerge in ways that challenge the very existence of the region’s states.

The Middle East that eventually emerged from World War I bore little resemblance to the one laid out in the Sykes-Picot agreement, named for the British and French diplomats who bisected the region from east to west at a meeting in London.

But the line-drawing endeavor set the tone for the exercise in nation-making that came next. To this day, it is Sykes-Picot that is recalled and condemned by those living in the shadow of its consequences.

Plans for an independent Arab homeland were dropped. Instead, the British assumed full control over the territory corresponding to Iraq, Jordan, Palestine and later Israel. The French took Syria and carved from it Lebanon as a sanctuary for Christians, a loss that Syria has never formally accepted.

One of the borders they drew cut through al-Qasr, among numerous small farming villages dotting the lush fertile land fed by the streams of Mount Hermel in the remote northeastern corner of Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley.

The overwhelmingly Shiite community proclaims its allegiances with portraits of Syria’s Assad and Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, strung alongside those of the only Lebanese figure featured — Hasan Nasrallah, leader of the Hezbollah militant group. Shop windows are plastered with photographs of the men of the village who have died fighting in Syria for Hezbollah, whose contribution has proved key to a string of recent victories by Assad’s government.

“We never had borders between us. We consider ourselves one territory,” said Mohammed Shamas, 22, whose shop adjoins the border. “But a long time ago, the French came and drew these lines.”

More real for the residents here is the unmarked boundary that divides the Shiite villages in the foothills of Mount Hermel from the closest Sunni town, Arsal, which has been transformed by the revolt in Syria into a hub for the opposition. Tucked high in stony mountains 25 miles away, its streets teem with Syrian refugees, Syrian rebels, ambulances ferrying wounded Syrian fighters from the front lines and taxis plying the route to the nearest Syrian town, Yabroud.

Few people here travel the opposite direction, toward Lebanese towns, fearful after a spate of abductions and killings between the Lebanese Shiite and Sunni communities fueled in part by the Syrian war.

“We consider this place more Syrian than Lebanese,” said Abu Omar, an Arsal resident who runs a small clinic helping wounded fighters and did not want his real name to be used because he fears trouble from Lebanese authorities over his activities. He takes his family shopping to rebel-­held Yabroud, notwithstanding shelling and airstrikes, because he would not dare move deeper into Lebanon. “The sectarian borders are real,” he said.

Jamal, the Shiite farmer whose property straddles the Syrian border, does all of his shopping in the Syrian town of Homs, not because he fears the journey to other Shiite towns but because Homs is cheaper and more convenient. “I would never go to Arsal. There they are all takfiris,” he said, referring to Sunni extremists.

“They made sure when those borders were drawn to maintain trouble between us forever,” he added. “It was on purpose.”

Reshaping the map

Similar undrawn boundaries are starting to take shape all over the region as the civil war enters its third year.

In the desert lands between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers — the Mesopotamia of ancient history — the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria is extending its reach into Syria and Iraq, flying the al-
Qaeda flag on both sides of the border. Its aim of restoring the Sunni Muslim caliphate has drawn Sunni volunteers from across the region.

In Syria’s far northeast, Kurds have declared autonomy in areas, raising the Kurdish flag and stirring hopes of independence for a community that lost out when the post-World War I map was made.

Assad loyalists, bolstered by the influx of Shiite volunteers from Lebanon and Iraq, are consolidating their hold on a spine of territory stretching from Damascus, the capital, to the coast, where most of the Shiite-
affiliated Alawite minority lives, sustaining the reach of the two-starred Syrian flag of the four-
decade-old Baathist regime.

In each location, massacres and persecutions of sects that find themselves on the wrong side of the lines are corroding the diversity that historically characterized Syria. Christians and Alawites are fleeing rebel-held areas, Sunnis who sympathize with the rebels are escaping government-controlled ones, swarming into Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan and Iraq with little indication that they will be able to go home anytime soon.

And over each dominion, foreign powers hold sway, sponsoring their proteges with money and weapons to further their own advantage. Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other states of the Persian Gulf back the Islamist rebels; Iran and Russia support the government, echoing the big-power rivalry that shaped the map a century ago.

The United States and Europe stand behind the fourth flag flying over Syria, the three-starred one adopted by the original, more-moderate proponents of the revolt, who sought to replace Assad’s dictatorship with a democracy. But without much in the way of funding or arms, theirs is the flag whose space is shrinking the fastest.

What is the solution?

Yet partition, which is where the dislocation inevitably seems to be heading, is an outcome that few people say they are willing to countenance, aside from the Kurds, who have long coveted a state of their own.

Although rulers have failed to translate nation-states into viable entities, most people have embraced the identities of the countries in which they live, said Malik Abdeh, a Syrian opposition writer based in London.

“It is the failure of political elites to offer any kind of vision that transcends sects that sustains sectarianism,” he said. “Notions of the nation-state are still very strong, even if the reality doesn’t correlate with prevailing ideals.”

Even the war’s brutality speaks to the intent of all the factions to win the conflict outright, with government forces routinely bombarding the rebel-held areas of the north from which their troops were ejected long ago, and rebels sustaining their pressure on Damascus with new offensives.

At a Hezbollah office in Hermel, the Shiite town that administers al-Qasr, an official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to talk to the news media denounced the fragmenting landscape as an American plot to split the Arab world into weak, divided statelets to affirm Israel as the region’s most powerful country.

It is not what he or other Shiites want.

“If sectarian enclaves were allowed to happen, Christians would be a minority; Shiites and Alawites would be a minority in a sea of Sunnis,” the official said.

Sunnis suspect a similar plot but blame the British, a throwback to the betrayal of their hopes for independence after British army officer T.E. Lawrence, a.k.a. Lawrence of Arabia, helped lead the Arab revolt against the Turks. They, too, fear the consequences of a new divide that would confine them to the region’s desert heart.

“If Syria is partitioned, there will be war for 100 years to come,” said Abu Zeid, 37, a Syrian refugee from Damascus who runs a restaurant in Arsal. “The Alawites will have the coast, the Kurds will have the oil, and the Sunnis will be in the middle with nothing. The only solution is to share everything.”

The challenge in the Geneva peace talks between the Syrian opposition and the regime will be to produce an agreement on a new form of governance that will end the fighting. If it fails, further fragmentation seems inevitable, said Hilal Khashan, a professor of political science at the American University of Beirut.

Over time, however, greater decentralization, in which local communities have more say over their affairs, may produce fairer and more stable societies, he said, describing “a sort of umbrella of nations where different groups enjoy their own culture and way of life.”

For the region’s borders to disappear “would be like utopia,” said Issam Bleibeh, the deputy mayor of Hermel, as he sat mulling ways the war might end with a group of friends at his home in the little town, whose streets, like those of nearby al-Qasr, are lined with photographs of the dead.

They failed to think of one.

“The wars will change, but there will always be wars,” Bleibeh said. “One day it could be Muslim-Christian, then Shiite-Sunni, then Sunni-Sunni. The only certainty is that there will always be wars.”

 

First published in the Washington Post

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

    Coming soon to the middle east……..

    Revelation 17:12-14………. 12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast……….

    • Btru2u

      The Smoke and the Beast are among the signs of the Day of Judgment, mentioned in the Qur’an and in rigorously authentic narrations.
      The Smoke
      Allah Most High states, “So be on the watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke covering the people; this is a painful chastisement.” [44: 10-11] The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “The Hour will not rise until you have seen ten signs: the rising of the sun from the west, the smoke, the beast…” [Muslim]
      There is a difference of opinion regarding whether the “smoke” mentioned in the verse of the Qur’an refers to the smoke that was foretold as one of the signs of the Hour. `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud was of the opinion that it did not, while ibn `Abbas, `Ali, ibn `Umar, and others affirmed that it referred to the same smoke mentioned in the Prophetic narratives. [Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim; Qurtubi, Jami` al-Ahkam al-Qur’an]
      Imam Qurtubi mentions that the smoke will cover the earth for a period of forty days, effecting both the believers and disbelievers. The former will be effected as if suffering from a common cold, whereas the latter will suffer harder. [Jami` al-Ahkam al-Qur’an]
      The Emergence of the Beast
      Allah Most High states, “We shall bring forth for them out of the earth a beast that shall speak unto them.” [27: 82] The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “The first of the signs [the Hour] to appear will be the rising of the sun from the west and the appearance of the Best before the people in the forenoon.” [Muslim]
      There scholars differed greatly regarding the details related to the Beast, which, though not important to know, can be mentioned briefly as follows:
      (a) Appearance: Some scholars, such as Imam Qurtubi, held that the beast is the she-camel of the Prophet Salih (Allah bless him). Others stated that it was an animal that is a hybrid of many different animals. Another opinion states that it is an actual human being, which is a very weak opinion. [Qurtubi, Tadkhira]
      (b) Place of Emergence: Some stated that the Beast will emerge from Makka, basing it on a narration of Hudhayfa (Allah be well-pleased with him). Others stated that it will emerge from a desert, then disappear, then emerge from a village, then disappear, then finally from the Masjid al-Haram in Makka. There is another opinion that states it will emerge from Ta’if. [Qurtubi, Tadkhira; Alusi, Ruh al-Ma`ani]
      (c) It’s Speech: The Beast will address the people with the words of Allah, “Mankind did not believe in our signs.” [27: 82] Others stated, quoting ibn `Abbas, that “speaking” refers to the action of the Beast in differentiating the believers and disbelievers.
      (d) It’s Role: The Beast will be tasked to differentiate the believers from the disbelievers. Abu Hurayra (Allah be well-pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “The Beast of the earth will emerge and have with it the staff of Moses and the ring of Solomon.” [Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, Musnad Ahmad] It will use these to mark off the believers from the disbelievers. [Qurtubi, Jami` al-Ahkam al-Qur’an]
      An important point to note is that many of the opinions regarding the beast may not have sound basis in the texts. As such, believing in these subtle details is not necessary, except that which has come in the authentic narratives of the Prophet (Allah bless him). This includes, first and foremost, believing in the coming of the Beast itself, a point established decisively in the Qur’an, as well as it being a sign of the Last Hour, its speaking to people, and its task of differentiating the believers from the disbelievers.
      Details regarding its appearance, where it will arise from, what it will say, and so forth, are matters of secondary importance. The safest route is to consign these modalities and details to Allah, while realizing that ultimately we will all return to Him to be judged for what we did in our worldly life.
      Wasalam
      Salman
      Checked & Approved by Faraz Rabbani

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

        Revelation 14:9-10………
        9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

        • cook

          LOL, I’ve seen you on like every website :-) disqus is fun innit

          • 5thDrawer

            Well, cookie. They duel with the same basic concept – that God is the reason … which conveniently answers your big question …. but only quoting from the prose of different humans over a long time. And it is too simple for some to say ‘Godly treatment of fellow animals’ is the main concept, and the rest is the fiction of ‘old sciences’. We used to believe a tooth-fairy could drop change too – mommy said so.
            I prefer to think the ‘spirit of God’ is in the animal we have become with the larger brain … and we know how we should be treating each other if we wish to survive as a species. (barring natural events, of course) We just don’t too often, and that’s why we write about it – to try to pass on some knowledge. But some of those ancient cryptographers loved to stick in a pack of silly extras, didn’t they?
            Some still do. :-))

          • Reasonableman

            The Islamic belief in Tawheed is uniquley unitarian, and islaam is counted as one of the worlds monothiestic religions along with judaism and christianity. However according to the islamic unitarian concept (tawheed) christianity is concidered polythiesm and judaism is concidered a subtle form of idolatry.
            (when the prophetsent muadth ibn jabal as governer of yemen in 9AH, He told him “You will be going to christians and jews(ahlul kitab), so the first thing you invite them to is assertation to the oneness of allah (yuwahidoo allah)” naratted by ibn abbas collected by al bukharee [muhammed muhsin khan, sahih al bukharee arabic english,] [ riyadth: maktaba ar-ryiyad al haditha 1989 vol9 pg348-9]
            Thus, the principle of tawheed is very profound and needs further classification even among the muslims. This point is vivdly illustrated at the point that muslims like muhammed ibn alee ibn arabee, understood tawheed to mean monism; That everything which exists is allaah and allaah is everything. Yet such beliefs among mainstreem muslims is concidered panthiesm.
            an aspect of tawheed is asmaat was sifaat (names and attributes) which requires man not be given attibutes of allah.
            EG. In the new testament SAUL commonly known as paul takes the figure of milchezedek, King of Salem, from the torah [genisis 14:18-20] and gives both him and jesus the divine attribute of having no beggining or end.
            1. For this milchizedek, King of Salem, Priest of the most high God, met Abraham returning from th salughter of the kings and blessed him,, and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything, He is first by translation of his name, King of rightousness, and he is also King of Salem, that is, King of peace. HE IS WITHOUT FATHER OR MOTHER OR GENEOLOGY, AND HAS NEITHER BEGINING OF DAYS NOR END OF LIFE BUT RESEMBLING THE SON OF GOD, HE CONTINUES A PRIEST FOREVER.

          • Reasonableman

            shiite sects(excluding zaidites of Yemen) have given their ‘imams’ the attribute of absoloute infabillity, knowledge of the past, future and the unseen the ability to co0ntrol destiny and control over the atoms of creation. in so they set up rivals who share gods unique attributes and who in fact become gods besides allah.
            Mhammed rida muzaffar states in his book ‘faith of shia islam’ (U.S.A muhammadi Trust of great britain and ireland 2nd ed 183); ” we believe that like the prophet an imam must be infallible, that is to say incapable of making errors or doing wron, inwardly or outwardly, from his birth to his death, either intentionally or unintentionally, because the imams are the preservers of islam and it is under their protection.”PG32. (see also “Tehren: A group of muslim brothers 1973 p.35 by saeed akhtar rizvi)
            Al khomeini states : ” Certainly the imam has a dignified station, a lofty rank, a creational caliphate, and sovereignty and mastery of all atoms and creations.” ( Ayaatollah Musavi al Khomeini, Al hookama al islaamiyeh, Beirut al- talee’ah Press, arabic edition 1979 p.52)

          • Reasonableman

            We see that these sects deviated from the straight path on tawheed (monothiesm and work hard to neutrilize the principle of tawheed. Among them also are those who negaters of allahs existance. In the 19th and 20th century a group of european phillosiphers asserted the non existance of god which became known as “Death Of God Philosphy” The germen philosopher “Phillip Mainlander” in his principal writing ” The philosophy of redemption” states that the world begins with the death of god, since god is a principle of unity shattered in the plurality of the world, and a principle of joy denied in the world of suffering which dominates the world.
            Another is Darwins theory, ghutama budda (buddism), Jainism, and one of the ancients
            THE PHAROAH OF EGYPT.
            ALLAH MENTIONED IN THE QURAN that he negated the existance of god and claimed to moses and to the people the people of egypt that he, Pharoah, was the only true lord of all creation. allah quoted him as sayiong to moses ” If you choose a god besides me, i will surely imprison you” [ qurain 26:29 suratash shoora]
            and to the people
            “I am your loard, Most High” [ 79:24 an nazziat]
            We all know the story of moses and his ending quoted in torah bible and quran.

          • 5thDrawer

            Nice researching, Reasonable.

          • Reasonableman

            Thankyou for taking the time in reading 5th. I hope i didnt fall short and address a an ideaology in a baseless way because explaining them properly is what is important so one can properly understand the one god concept. Hence i provided resources as evidence.

            As we say here in kangaland. “everyone deserves a fair go, mayte”

          • 5thDrawer

            :-) Never minded reading thoughts, Reasonably presented. :-))

          • 5thDrawer

            I visited the church in Damascus, made where Saul fell off his horse and had a vision after bashing his head on the ground …. now a couple of levels below the street … and then became ‘Paul’ – an apostle. Stopped killing people. History preserved in some places by ‘belief’ in it’s importance. A good thing.

          • Reasonableman

            An experience that is also preserved a lifetime i bet.

          • 5thDrawer

            Oh yes, Reasonable. I have pictures – for my lifetime at least. :-)
            Curiously, I have a mind that remembers some things too … little moments in the stream, if you like … almost photographic in itself. But I can’t show all of those.
            (Conversely, have a hell of a time remembering names ,,, weird.)

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Matthew 22:9……
            Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’

        • Btru2u

          Hey crosswinds , I have a feeling the beast of the earth that will talk to people , and as as the bible says “worship” could be GROSS MATERIALSM. and the number of the beast will be the way we do business with as a number .(maybe microchipped) .
          Obviously the antichrist, (dajjal) will be in the picture , and deceive anyone he reaches, (via media) etc .
          We are all easy targets in this materialistic , media driven world.
          May Allah help us. Ameen.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            I respectfully disagree. The spirit of the anti-Christ is revealed and explained in the Bible…..The Quran is the same as the spirit of the anti-christ….muslims are killing and persecuting Christians in some middle eastern countries today……

            1 John 2:22…..
            Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son……

            Qur’an 5:17…..
            “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'”

          • Btru2u

            Thanks for you polite response, and your view.
            I hope we can continue to remain civil .
            My question is .
            In John 2:22 who would the anti Christ be ,is it (anyone who denies the trinity)?

            And Allah through the quran sends many chilling warnings to us. The greatest lie (sin) is to say something of God that he is not. (Ie human).
            Allah can forgive any sin before you die except unrenpented “shirk” . shirk is associating partners with God. (Ie trinity etc) . God is not one in 3 or 3 in one but only one. Even from the beginning the first four commandments have to do with the oneness and worship of one God.
            Quran says.
            18:4
            And to warn those who say, ” Allah has taken a son.”
            18:5
            They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths; they speak not except a lie.
            And

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            I do not believe the Quran is the Word of God. It might acknowledge Jesus was a prophet, but they crucified Him because He said He was God, the Messiah of Israel, and savour of the world. So it does not matter to me, what it says. I bow to no one except Jesus Christ, the express image of the invisible God, for which I would probably be beheaded in some parts of the middle east for such a confession….

            Hebrews 1 ……

            1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high…….

            Philippians 2:5-11…..
            5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

          • Btru2u

            18:102
            Then do those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants instead of Me as allies? Indeed, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as a lodging.
            18:103
            Say, [O Muhammad], “Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?
            18:104
            [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.”
            18:105
            Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.
            18:106
            That is their recompense – Hell – for what they denied and [because] they took My signs and My messengers in ridicule.
            18:107
            Indeed, those who have believed and done righteous deeds – they will have the Gardens of Paradise as a lodging,
            18:108
            Wherein they abide eternally. They will not desire from it any transfer.
            18:109
            Say, “If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement.”
            18:110
            Say, “I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord – let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone.”

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Without Jesus Christ, we are lost. Plain and simple. Humans break the law in Word, thought and deed daily. The only perfect One is Jesus, the only sinless one, who took our sins on the Cross. If you don’t accept Jesus Christ as Gods only Way to Eternal Life, you will die in your sins. He is the One who crucifies the sinful nature in us, because He lives within Christians by the power of the Holy Spirit…..

          • Btru2u

            (18:105) Those are the ones who refused to believe in the revelations of their Lord and that they are bound to meet Him. Hence, all their deeds have come to naught, and We shall assign no weight to them on the Day of Resurrection.77
            77. “So worthless will be their deeds” in the sense that they will be of no avail to them in the life after death, even though they might have considered them as their great achievements but the fact is that they will lose all their value as soon as the world shall come to an end. When they will go before their Lord, and all their deeds shall be placed in the scales, they will have no weight at all whether they had built great palaces, established great universities and libraries, set up great factories and laboratories, constructed highways and railways, in short, all their inventions, industries, sciences and arts and other things of which they were very proud in this world, will lose their weights in the scales. The only thing which will have weight there will be that which had been done in accordance with the divine instructions and with the intention to please Allah. It is, therefore, obvious that if all of one’s endeavors were confined to the worldly things and the achievement of worldly desires whose results one would see in this world, one should not reasonably expect to see their results in the Hereafter, for they would have gone waste with the end of this world. It is equally obvious, that only the deeds of the one, who performed them strictly in accordance with His instructions to win His approval with a view to avail of their results in the Hereafter, will find that his deeds had weight in the scales. On the contrary, such a one will find that all his endeavors in the world had gone waste.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            The misconception that Jesus’ message is anti-capitalist probably stems from the same confusion that pervades all leftist thinking: the inability to distinguish voluntary from coerced human action. Jesus often exhorts his followers to voluntarily give to the poor. Nowhere in the gospels does he suggest that the Romans or the vassal Jewish government should be empowered to tax the wealthy to provide for the poor.
            Jesus also warns against the temptations that great wealth may expose one to. Being consumed with accumulating wealth to the exclusion of all other concerns leaves no room for devotion to God or charity to one’s fellow man. This is summed up in Luke 16:13 when Jesus says,
            “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”
            Again, Jesus charges his followers to manage their own passion for wealth. There is no suggestion that the government should be involved.
            Jesus doesn’t expound on political economy because, as he told Pilate, “my kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36). However, his parables have consistently pro-capitalist themes.
            In the parable of the bags of gold (Matthew 25: 14-30), the servants who choose to be capitalists with the master’s money are richly rewarded upon the master’s return. The servant who chose not to be a capitalist is not only not rewarded, he is “cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!”
            Certainly, the story is symbolic. The money in the story represents the abilities given to each individual by God. But even on that level the story does not support the anti-capitalists. First, the master, the ultimate capitalist in the parable, actually represents God. Certainly, Jesus would have found another way to make his point if capitalists were de facto sinners (like tax collectors).
            Notice also that the servant who chooses not to invest the master’s money is the one given the least. Symbolically, he represents the person who has the least natural gifts or who is born to disadvantage. Does Jesus suggest that the other two servants should be taxed to help him? No. The most disadvantaged servant is expected to do the best with what he has. He isn’t punished because he achieves less. He is punished because he fails to try.
            In two other parables, Jesus represents God as the owner of a vineyard. In Matthew 20: 1-16, he makes the point that it is never too late for salvation and that a repentant man can claim it the same salvation as one who has been devout all of his life. He represents salvation as wages paid to laborers. When a laborer who worked longer complains that he is paid no more than one who only worked an hour, the master replies,

            “Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.”
            Again, the message is spiritual, but Jesus uses the very libertarian, capitalist idea that no one is entitled to any more wages than both parties voluntarily agree to.
            God is again depicted as the owner of a vineyard in Matthew 21: 33-41. In this parable, the vineyard owner is even more overtly capitalist. Verse 33 in particular highlights that it is the previous work of the owner in planting the vineyard, hedging around it, and building a tower that makes the land productive before it is ever rented out to the husbandmen.
            In other words, the capitalist has sacrificed his own consumption in the present to invest in land and capital goods to improve the productivity of the land. This has created an opportunity for the husbandmen to be more productive by working on the owner’s land than they would be on their own, without the land or the capital goods the owner has provided.
            The owner then enters a voluntary agreement with the husbandmen whereby each party keeps part of what is produced. Both owner and husbandmen benefit from the agreement. The owner is entitled to the profits because he is the one who created the opportunity by sacrificing his own consumption in the past.
            The husbandmen are evil specifically because they act like Marxists and renege on the agreement. They kill the owner’s agents and even his son, hoping to seize all of the wealth for themselves.
            In verse 41, Jesus teaches that the owner will destroy the Marxists and rent the land to other husbandmen who will make him profits. The right of the owner to profits is affirmed, the idea that the workers are being exploited or should be able to take more than the owner has agreed to pay them is completely absent.
            Nowhere in any of these parables are socialist ideas advanced. On the contrary, God is consistently represented as a capitalist and his children judged by how profitable they are to Him.
            While the purpose of the parables is to teach a spiritual lesson, these are not the literary tools that an anti-capitalist author would employ. Jesus’ pro-capitalist bias couldn’t hit one over the head any harder.

          • Btru2u

            Mathew 5:17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

            Galations 6:5
            Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible
            Every man shall bear his own burden – All must answer for themselves, not for their neighbors. And every man must expect to be dealt with by the Divine Judge, as his character and conduct have been. The greater offenses of another will not excuse thy smaller crimes. Every man must give account of himself to God.

            Here are Some interesting quotes from important people below . Because you show interest , it is my duty to at least point you to the guidance that continues to attract the souls that are still searching.

            Michael H. Hart (1932- ) Professor of astronomy, physics and the history of science.

            q “My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.” [The 100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History, New York, 1978, p. 33]

            William Montgomery Watt (1909- ) Professor (Emeritus) of Arabic and Islamic Studies at the University of Edinburgh.

            q “His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad.” [Mohammad At Mecca, Oxford, 1953, p. 52]

            maybe you have not yet accepted Mohammed as the last prophet and messenger of God , but dont you think carefully consideration should be made before rejecting him. After all it is a big claim that 1.5 billion billion people believe is true. And our eternal soul is at stake.
            The people that don’t hear or try to obey gods word will be left wandering , just like isolated tribes, and the hard of heart.
            All you have to do to begin Islam is to truly profess say and believe these words “ash hadu an La ill aha illah loh”( I bear witness that there is no god except Allah) , “Wa ash hadu an Muhammadan Rasuul lilloh” (and I bear witness that Muhammadan is the messenger of Allah”
            I imagine you will need more information , so a good place to start besides the Quran would the seerah of the prophet. ( the life of the prophet ),Books and CDs are available for free, as our reward is only with Allah.(swt)

            Only because I love you a brother in humanity and hopefully in faith.
            If you want me to stop, I will respect your wishes , otherwise feel free to have inter religious dialogue with me.

            See another interesting link about science and Islam.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            John 6:44…..
            No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

          • Btru2u

            C’mon crosswinds is that your best comeback. Now your just being ignorant.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Amos 3:3
            Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

          • Btru2u

            Hi crosswinds.
            Oldest original Aramaic bible found in Turkey.

            A secret Bible in which Jesus is believed to predict the coming of the Prophet Muhammad to Earth has sparked serious interest from the Vatican.
            Pope Benedict XVI is claimed to want to see the 1,500-year-old book, which many say is the Gospel of Barnabas, that has been hidden by the Turkish state for the last 12 years.
            The £14million handwritten gold lettered tome, penned in Jesus’ native Aramaic language, is said to contain his early teachings and a prediction of the Prophet’s coming.

          • 5thDrawer

            After he came?

          • Btru2u

            12 proofs that Muhammef (PBUH) was a true prophet of God.
            1. Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained like that till his death. Among all his people, he was known as being truthful and trustworthy. Before receiving revelation, he had no prior knowledge of Religion or any previously sent Message. He remained like that for his first forty years. Revelation then came to Muhammad with theKoran that we now have between our hands. This Koran mentioned most of the accounts found in the previous scriptures, telling us about these events in the greatest detail as if he witnessed them. These accounts came precisely as they were found in the Torah sent down to Moses and in the Gospel sent down to Jesus. Neither the Jews or Christians were able to believe him regarding anything that he said.

            2. Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) also foretold of everything that wouldoccur to him and his community after him, pertaining to victory, the removal of the tyrannical kingdoms of Chosroes [the royal title for the Zoroastrian kings of Persia] and Caesar, and the establishment of the religion of Islam throughout the earth. These events occurred exactly as Muhammad foretold, as ifhe was reading the future from an open book.

            3. Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) also brought an Arabic Koran that isthe peak of eloquence and clarity. The Koran challenged those eloquent and fluent Arabs of his time, who initially belied him, to bring forth a single chapter like the Koran. The eloquent Arabs of his day were unable to contest this Koran.Indeed, till our day, none has ever dared to claim that he has been able to compose words that equal-or even approach-the order, grace, beauty, and splendor of this Glorious Koran.

            4. The life history of this Noble Prophet was a perfect example of being upright, merciful,compassionate, truthful, brave, generous, distant from all evil character, and ascetic in all worldly matters, while striving solely for the reward of the Hereafter. Moreover, in all his actions and dealings, he was ever mindful and fearful of Allah.

            5. Allah instilled great love for Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) in the hearts of all who believed in and met him. This love reached such a degree that any of his companions would willingly sacrifice his (or her) self, mother or father for him. Till today, those who believe in Muhammad honor and love him. Anyone of those who believe in him would ransom his own family and wealth to see him, even if but once.

            6. All of history has not preserved the biography of any person in the manner it has preserved the life of Muhammad, who is the most influential human in history. Nor has the entire earth known of anyone whom every morning and evening, and many times thereafter throughout the day, is thought of by those who believe in him. Upon rememberingMuhammad, the believers in him will greet him and ask Allah to bless him. They do such with full hearts and true love for him.

            7. Nor has there every been a man on earth whom is still followed in all his doings by those whobelieve in him. Those who believe in Muhammad, sleep in the manner he slept; purify themselves (through ablutionand ritual washing) in the manner he purified himself; and adhere to his practice in the way they eat, drink, and clothe themselves.

            Indeed in all aspects of their lives, the believers in Muhammad adhere to the teachings he spread among them and the path that he traveled upon during his life.

            During every generation, from his day till our time, the believers in this Noble prophet have fullyadhered to his teachings. With some, this has reached the degree that they desire to follow and adhere to the Prophet’s way in his personal matters regarding which Allah has not sought of them to adhere to in worship. For example, some will only eat those specific foods or only wear those specific garmentsthat the Messenger liked.

            Let alone all that, all those who believe in Muhammad repeat those praises of Allah, special prayers,and invocations that he would say during each of his actions during day and night, like: what he would say when he greeted people, upon entering and leaving the house, entering and leaving the mosque, entering and leaving the bathroom, going to sleep and awaking from sleep, observing the new crescent, observing the new fruit on trees, eating, drinking, dressing, riding, traveling and returning from travel, etc. Let alone all that, all those who believe in Muhammad fully perform-even to the minute detail-every act of worship-like prayer, fasting, charity, and pilgrimage-as this Noble Messenger (may Allah’s blessingsand peace be upon him) taught and as he himself performed.All of this allows those who believe in him, to live their lives in all aspects with this Noble Messenger as their example, as if he was standing before them, for them to follow in all their doings.

            8. There has never been nor will there ever be a man anywhere upon this earth who has received suchlove, respect, honor, and obedience in all matters-small and large alike-as has this Noble Prophet.

            9. Since his day, in every region of the earth and during every period, this Noble Prophet has beenfollowed by individuals from all races, colors and peoples. Many of those who followed him were previously Christians, Jews, pagans, idolaters, or without any religion. Among those who chose to follow him, were those who were known for their sound judgment, wisdom, reflection, and foresight. They chose to follow this Noble Prophet after they witnessed the signs of his truthfulness and the evidences of his miracles. They did not choose to follow Muhammad out of compulsion or coercion orbecause they had adopted the ways of their fathers and mothers.Indeed many of the followers of this Prophet (may Allah’s blessings peace be upon him), chose to follow him during the time when Islam was weak, when there were few Muslims, and when there was severe persecution of his followers on earth. Most people who have followed this Prophet (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) have done so not to acquire some material benefits. Indeed many of his followers have suffered the greatest forms of harm and persecution as a result of followingthis Prophet. Despite all this harm and persecution, this did not turn them back from his religion. My brethren! All of this clearly indicates to anyone possessing any sense, that this Prophet was truly and really Allah’s messenger and that he was not just a man who claimed prophethood or spoke aboutAllah without knowledge.

            10. With all this, Muhammad came with a great religion in its credal and legal make-up. Muhammad described Allah with qualities of complete perfection, and at the same time in a manner that is free of ascribing to Him any imperfection. Neither the philosophers or the wise could ever describe Allah like such. Indeed it is impossible to imagine that any human mind could conceive of an existing being that possesses such complete ability, knowledge, and greatness; Who has subdued thecreation; Who has encompassed everything in the universe, small or large; and Who possesses such perfect mercy.Nor is it in the ability of any human being to place a perfect law based upon justice, equality, mercy and objectivity for all human activity on earth like the laws that Muhammad brought for all spheres of human activity – like buying and selling, marriage and divorce, renting, testimony, custody, and all othercontracts that are necessary to uphold life and civilization on earth.

            11. It is impossible that any person conceive wisdom, morals, good manners, nobleness of charactersas what this honorable Prophet (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) brought. In a full and complete manner, Muhammad spread a teaching regarding character and manners towardone’ parents, relatives, fiends, family, humanity, animals, plants and inanimate objects. It is impossible for the human mind alone to grasp all of that teaching or come with a similar teaching. All of that unequivocally indicates that this Messenger did not bring an) of this religion from his own accord, but that it was rather a teaching and inspiration that he received from the One Who created the earth and the high heavens above and created this universe in its miraculous architecture andperfection.

            12. The legal and credal make-up of the religion that the Messenger, Muhammad, (may Allah’sblessings and peace be upon him) brought resembles the engineering of the heavens and the earth. All of that indicates that He who created the heavens and the earth is the One Who sent down this great law and upright religion. The degree of inimitability of the Divine law that was sent down upon Muhammad is to the same degree of inimitability of the Divine creation of the heavens and earth. For just as humanity cannot create this universe, in the same manner humanity cannot bring forth a law like Allah’s law that He sent down upon His servant and messenger Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him).

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Revelation is the final Revelation…..

            Revelation 22:18….
            For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

          • Hannibal

            Don’t touch my credit cards ;)

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

    Coming soon to the middle east……..

    Revelation 17:12-14………. 12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast……….

    • Btru2u

      The Smoke and the Beast are among the signs of the Day of Judgment, mentioned in the Qur’an and in rigorously authentic narrations.
      The Smoke
      Allah Most High states, “So be on the watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke covering the people; this is a painful chastisement.” [44: 10-11] The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “The Hour will not rise until you have seen ten signs: the rising of the sun from the west, the smoke, the beast…” [Muslim]
      There is a difference of opinion regarding whether the “smoke” mentioned in the verse of the Qur’an refers to the smoke that was foretold as one of the signs of the Hour. `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud was of the opinion that it did not, while ibn `Abbas, `Ali, ibn `Umar, and others affirmed that it referred to the same smoke mentioned in the Prophetic narratives. [Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim; Qurtubi, Jami` al-Ahkam al-Qur’an]
      Imam Qurtubi mentions that the smoke will cover the earth for a period of forty days, effecting both the believers and disbelievers. The former will be effected as if suffering from a common cold, whereas the latter will suffer harder. [Jami` al-Ahkam al-Qur’an]
      The Emergence of the Beast
      Allah Most High states, “We shall bring forth for them out of the earth a beast that shall speak unto them.” [27: 82] The Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “The first of the signs [the Hour] to appear will be the rising of the sun from the west and the appearance of the Best before the people in the forenoon.” [Muslim]
      There scholars differed greatly regarding the details related to the Beast, which, though not important to know, can be mentioned briefly as follows:
      (a) Appearance: Some scholars, such as Imam Qurtubi, held that the beast is the she-camel of the Prophet Salih (Allah bless him). Others stated that it was an animal that is a hybrid of many different animals. Another opinion states that it is an actual human being, which is a very weak opinion. [Qurtubi, Tadkhira]
      (b) Place of Emergence: Some stated that the Beast will emerge from Makka, basing it on a narration of Hudhayfa (Allah be well-pleased with him). Others stated that it will emerge from a desert, then disappear, then emerge from a village, then disappear, then finally from the Masjid al-Haram in Makka. There is another opinion that states it will emerge from Ta’if. [Qurtubi, Tadkhira; Alusi, Ruh al-Ma`ani]
      (c) It’s Speech: The Beast will address the people with the words of Allah, “Mankind did not believe in our signs.” [27: 82] Others stated, quoting ibn `Abbas, that “speaking” refers to the action of the Beast in differentiating the believers and disbelievers.
      (d) It’s Role: The Beast will be tasked to differentiate the believers from the disbelievers. Abu Hurayra (Allah be well-pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) said, “The Beast of the earth will emerge and have with it the staff of Moses and the ring of Solomon.” [Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, Musnad Ahmad] It will use these to mark off the believers from the disbelievers. [Qurtubi, Jami` al-Ahkam al-Qur’an]
      An important point to note is that many of the opinions regarding the beast may not have sound basis in the texts. As such, believing in these subtle details is not necessary, except that which has come in the authentic narratives of the Prophet (Allah bless him). This includes, first and foremost, believing in the coming of the Beast itself, a point established decisively in the Qur’an, as well as it being a sign of the Last Hour, its speaking to people, and its task of differentiating the believers from the disbelievers.
      Details regarding its appearance, where it will arise from, what it will say, and so forth, are matters of secondary importance. The safest route is to consign these modalities and details to Allah, while realizing that ultimately we will all return to Him to be judged for what we did in our worldly life.
      Wasalam
      Salman
      Checked & Approved by Faraz Rabbani

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

        Revelation 14:9-10………
        9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

        • cook2half

          LOL, I’ve seen you on like every website :-) disqus is fun innit

          • 5thDrawer

            Well, cookie. They duel with the same basic concept – that God is the reason … which conveniently answers your big question …. but only quoting from the prose of different humans over a long time. And it is too simple for some to say ‘Godly treatment of fellow animals’ is the main concept, and the rest is the fiction of ‘old sciences’. We used to believe a tooth-fairy could drop change too – mommy said so.
            I prefer to think the ‘spirit of God’ is in the animal we have become with the larger brain … and we know how we should be treating each other if we wish to survive as a species. (barring natural events, of course) We just don’t too often, and that’s why we write about it – to try to pass on some knowledge. But some of those ancient cryptographers loved to stick in a pack of silly extras, didn’t they?
            Some still do. :-))

          • Reasonableman

            The Islamic belief in Tawheed is uniquley unitarian, and islaam is counted as one of the worlds monothiestic religions along with judaism and christianity. However according to the islamic unitarian concept (tawheed) christianity is concidered polythiesm and judaism is concidered a subtle form of idolatry.
            (when the prophetsent muadth ibn jabal as governer of yemen in 9AH, He told him “You will be going to christians and jews(ahlul kitab), so the first thing you invite them to is assertation to the oneness of allah (yuwahidoo allah)” naratted by ibn abbas collected by al bukharee [muhammed muhsin khan, sahih al bukharee arabic english,] [ riyadth: maktaba ar-ryiyad al haditha 1989 vol9 pg348-9]
            Thus, the principle of tawheed is very profound and needs further classification even among the muslims. This point is vivdly illustrated at the point that muslims like muhammed ibn alee ibn arabee, understood tawheed to mean monism; That everything which exists is allaah and allaah is everything. Yet such beliefs among mainstreem muslims is concidered panthiesm.
            an aspect of tawheed is asmaat was sifaat (names and attributes) which requires man not be given attibutes of allah.
            EG. In the new testament SAUL commonly known as paul takes the figure of milchezedek, King of Salem, from the torah [genisis 14:18-20] and gives both him and jesus the divine attribute of having no beggining or end.
            1. For this milchizedek, King of Salem, Priest of the most high God, met Abraham returning from th salughter of the kings and blessed him,, and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything, He is first by translation of his name, King of rightousness, and he is also King of Salem, that is, King of peace. HE IS WITHOUT FATHER OR MOTHER OR GENEOLOGY, AND HAS NEITHER BEGINING OF DAYS NOR END OF LIFE BUT RESEMBLING THE SON OF GOD, HE CONTINUES A PRIEST FOREVER.

          • Reasonableman

            shiite sects(excluding zaidites of Yemen) have given their ‘imams’ the attribute of absoloute infabillity, knowledge of the past, future and the unseen the ability to co0ntrol destiny and control over the atoms of creation. in so they set up rivals who share gods unique attributes and who in fact become gods besides allah.
            Mhammed rida muzaffar states in his book ‘faith of shia islam’ (U.S.A muhammadi Trust of great britain and ireland 2nd ed 183); ” we believe that like the prophet an imam must be infallible, that is to say incapable of making errors or doing wron, inwardly or outwardly, from his birth to his death, either intentionally or unintentionally, because the imams are the preservers of islam and it is under their protection.”PG32. (see also “Tehren: A group of muslim brothers 1973 p.35 by saeed akhtar rizvi)
            Al khomeini states : ” Certainly the imam has a dignified station, a lofty rank, a creational caliphate, and sovereignty and mastery of all atoms and creations.” ( Ayaatollah Musavi al Khomeini, Al hookama al islaamiyeh, Beirut al- talee’ah Press, arabic edition 1979 p.52)

          • Reasonableman

            We see that these sects deviated from the straight path on tawheed (monothiesm and work hard to neutrilize the principle of tawheed. Among them also are those who negaters of allahs existance. In the 19th and 20th a group of european phillosiphers asserted the non existance of god which became known as “Death Of God Philosphy” The germen philosopher “Phillip Mainlander” in his principal writing ” The philosophy of redemption” states that the world begins with the death of god, since god is a principle of unity shattered in the plurality of the world, and a principle of joy denied in the world of suffering which dominates the world.
            Another is Darwins theory, ghutama budda (buddism), Jainism, and one of the ancients
            THE PHAROAH OF EGYPT.
            ALLAH MENTIONED IN THE QURAN that he negated the existance of god and claimed to moses and to the people the people of egypt that he, Pharoah, was the only true lord of all creation. allah quoted him as sayiong to moses ” If you choose a god besides me, i will surely imprison you” [ qurain 26:29 suratash shoora]
            and to the people
            “I am your loard, Most High” [ 79:24 an nazziat]
            We all know the story of moses and his ending quoted in torah bible and quran.

          • 5thDrawer

            Nice researching, Reasonable.

          • Reasonableman

            Thankyou for taking the time in reading 5th. I hope i didnt fall short and address a an ideaology in a baseless way because explaining them properly is what is important so one can properly understand the one god concept. Hence i provided resources as evidence.

            As we say here in kangaland. “everyone deserves a fair go, mayte”

          • 5thDrawer

            :-) Never minded reading thoughts, Reasonably presented. :-))

          • 5thDrawer

            I visited the church in Damascus where Saul fell off his horse and had a vision after bashing his head on the ground …. now a couple of levels below the street … and then became ‘Paul’ – an apostle. Stopped killing people. History preserved in some places by ‘belief’ in it’s importance. A good thing.

          • Reasonableman

            An experience that is also preserved a lifetime i bet.

          • 5thDrawer

            Oh yes, Reasonable. I have pictures – for my lifetime at least. :-)
            Curiously, I have a mind that remembers some things too … little moments in the stream, if you like … almost photographic in itself. But I can’t show all of those.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Matthew 22:9……
            Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’

        • Btru2u

          Hey crosswinds , I have a feeling the beast of the earth that will talk to people , and as as the bible says “worship” could be GROSS MATERIALSM. and the number of the beast will be the way we do business with as a number .(maybe microchipped) .
          Obviously the antichrist, (dajjal) will be in the picture , and deceive anyone he reaches, (via media) etc .
          We are all easy targets in this materialistic , media driven world.
          May Allah help us. Ameen.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            I disagree. The spirit of the anti-Christ is revealed and explained in the Bible…..The Quran is the same as the spirit of the anti-christ….muslims are killing and persecuting Christians in some middle eastern countries today……

            1 John 2:22…..
            Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son……

            Qur’an 5:17…..
            “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'”

          • Btru2u

            Thanks for you polite response, and your view.
            I hope we can continue to remain civil .
            My question is .
            In John 2:22 who would the anti Christ be ,is it (anyone who denies the trinity)?

            And Allah through the quran sends many chilling warnings to us. The greatest lie (sin) is to say something of God that he is not. (Ie human).
            Allah can forgive any sin before you die except unrenpented “shirk” . shirk is associating partners with God. (Ie trinity etc) . God is not one in 3 or 3 in one but only one. Even from the beginning the first four commandments have to do with the oneness and worship of one God.
            Quran says.
            18:4
            And to warn those who say, ” Allah has taken a son.”
            18:5
            They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths; they speak not except a lie.
            And

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            I do not believe the Quran is the Word of God. It might acknowledge Jesus was a prophet, but they crucified Him because He said He was God, the Messiah of Israel, and savour of the world. So it does not matter to me, what it says. I bow to no one except Jesus Christ, the express image of the invisible God, for which I would probably be beheaded in some parts of the middle east for such a confession….

            Hebrews 1 ……

            1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high…….

            Philippians 2:5-11…..
            5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

          • Btru2u

            18:102
            Then do those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants instead of Me as allies? Indeed, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as a lodging.
            18:103
            Say, [O Muhammad], “Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?
            18:104
            [They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.”
            18:105
            Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance.
            18:106
            That is their recompense – Hell – for what they denied and [because] they took My signs and My messengers in ridicule.
            18:107
            Indeed, those who have believed and done righteous deeds – they will have the Gardens of Paradise as a lodging,
            18:108
            Wherein they abide eternally. They will not desire from it any transfer.
            18:109
            Say, “If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement.”
            18:110
            Say, “I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord – let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone.”

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Without Jesus Christ, your toast my friend. Plain and simple. You break the law in Word, thought and deed daily. The only perfect One is Jesus, the only sinless one, who took our sins on the Cross. If you don’t accept Jesus Christ as Gods only Way to Eternal Life, you will die in your sins…..

          • Btru2u

            (18:105) Those are the ones who refused to believe in the revelations of their Lord and that they are bound to meet Him. Hence, all their deeds have come to naught, and We shall assign no weight to them on the Day of Resurrection.77
            77. “So worthless will be their deeds” in the sense that they will be of no avail to them in the life after death, even though they might have considered them as their great achievements but the fact is that they will lose all their value as soon as the world shall come to an end. When they will go before their Lord, and all their deeds shall be placed in the scales, they will have no weight at all whether they had built great palaces, established great universities and libraries, set up great factories and laboratories, constructed highways and railways, in short, all their inventions, industries, sciences and arts and other things of which they were very proud in this world, will lose their weights in the scales. The only thing which will have weight there will be that which had been done in accordance with the divine instructions and with the intention to please Allah. It is, therefore, obvious that if all of one’s endeavors were confined to the worldly things and the achievement of worldly desires whose results one would see in this world, one should not reasonably expect to see their results in the Hereafter, for they would have gone waste with the end of this world. It is equally obvious, that only the deeds of the one, who performed them strictly in accordance with His instructions to win His approval with a view to avail of their results in the Hereafter, will find that his deeds had weight in the scales. On the contrary, such a one will find that all his endeavors in the world had gone waste.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            The misconception that Jesus’ message is anti-capitalist probably stems from the same confusion that pervades all leftist thinking: the inability to distinguish voluntary from coerced human action. Jesus often exhorts his followers to voluntarily give to the poor. Nowhere in the gospels does he suggest that the Romans or the vassal Jewish government should be empowered to tax the wealthy to provide for the poor.
            Jesus also warns against the temptations that great wealth may expose one to. Being consumed with accumulating wealth to the exclusion of all other concerns leaves no room for devotion to God or charity to one’s fellow man. This is summed up in Luke 16:13 when Jesus says,
            “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”
            Again, Jesus charges his followers to manage their own passion for wealth. There is no suggestion that the government should be involved.
            Jesus doesn’t expound on political economy because, as he told Pilate, “my kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36). However, his parables have consistently pro-capitalist themes.
            In the parable of the bags of gold (Matthew 25: 14-30), the servants who choose to be capitalists with the master’s money are richly rewarded upon the master’s return. The servant who chose not to be a capitalist is not only not rewarded, he is “cast into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!”
            Certainly, the story is symbolic. The money in the story represents the abilities given to each individual by God. But even on that level the story does not support the anti-capitalists. First, the master, the ultimate capitalist in the parable, actually represents God. Certainly, Jesus would have found another way to make his point if capitalists were de facto sinners (like tax collectors).
            Notice also that the servant who chooses not to invest the master’s money is the one given the least. Symbolically, he represents the person who has the least natural gifts or who is born to disadvantage. Does Jesus suggest that the other two servants should be taxed to help him? No. The most disadvantaged servant is expected to do the best with what he has. He isn’t punished because he achieves less. He is punished because he fails to try.
            In two other parables, Jesus represents God as the owner of a vineyard. In Matthew 20: 1-16, he makes the point that it is never too late for salvation and that a repentant man can claim it the same salvation as one who has been devout all of his life. He represents salvation as wages paid to laborers. When a laborer who worked longer complains that he is paid no more than one who only worked an hour, the master replies,

            “Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.”
            Again, the message is spiritual, but Jesus uses the very libertarian, capitalist idea that no one is entitled to any more wages than both parties voluntarily agree to.
            God is again depicted as the owner of a vineyard in Matthew 21: 33-41. In this parable, the vineyard owner is even more overtly capitalist. Verse 33 in particular highlights that it is the previous work of the owner in planting the vineyard, hedging around it, and building a tower that makes the land productive before it is ever rented out to the husbandmen.
            In other words, the capitalist has sacrificed his own consumption in the present to invest in land and capital goods to improve the productivity of the land. This has created an opportunity for the husbandmen to be more productive by working on the owner’s land than they would be on their own, without the land or the capital goods the owner has provided.
            The owner then enters a voluntary agreement with the husbandmen whereby each party keeps part of what is produced. Both owner and husbandmen benefit from the agreement. The owner is entitled to the profits because he is the one who created the opportunity by sacrificing his own consumption in the past.
            The husbandmen are evil specifically because they act like Marxists and renege on the agreement. They kill the owner’s agents and even his son, hoping to seize all of the wealth for themselves.
            In verse 41, Jesus teaches that the owner will destroy the Marxists and rent the land to other husbandmen who will make him profits. The right of the owner to profits is affirmed, the idea that the workers are being exploited or should be able to take more than the owner has agreed to pay them is completely absent.
            Nowhere in any of these parables are socialist ideas advanced. On the contrary, God is consistently represented as a capitalist and his children judged by how profitable they are to Him.
            While the purpose of the parables is to teach a spiritual lesson, these are not the literary tools that an anti-capitalist author would employ. Jesus’ pro-capitalist bias couldn’t hit one over the head any harder.

          • Btru2u

            Mathew 5:17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

            Galations 6:5
            Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible
            Every man shall bear his own burden – All must answer for themselves, not for their neighbors. And every man must expect to be dealt with by the Divine Judge, as his character and conduct have been. The greater offenses of another will not excuse thy smaller crimes. Every man must give account of himself to God.

            Here are Some interesting quotes from important people below . Because you show interest , it is my duty to at least point you to the guidance that continues to attract the souls that are still searching.

            Michael H. Hart (1932- ) Professor of astronomy, physics and the history of science.

            q “My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.” [The 100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History, New York, 1978, p. 33]

            William Montgomery Watt (1909- ) Professor (Emeritus) of Arabic and Islamic Studies at the University of Edinburgh.

            q “His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement – all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad.” [Mohammad At Mecca, Oxford, 1953, p. 52]

            maybe you have not yet accepted Mohammed as the last prophet and messenger of God , but dont you think carefully consideration should be made before rejecting him. After all it is a big claim that 1.5 billion billion people believe is true. And our eternal soul is at stake.
            The people that don’t hear or try to obey gods word will be left wandering , just like isolated tribes, and the hard of heart.
            All you have to do to begin Islam is to truly profess say and believe these words “ash hadu an La ill aha illah loh”( I bear witness that there is no god except Allah) , “Wa ash hadu an Muhammadan Rasuul lilloh” (and I bear witness that Muhammadan is the messenger of Allah”
            I imagine you will need more information , so a good place to start besides the Quran would the seerah of the prophet. ( the life of the prophet ),Books and CDs are available for free, as our reward is only with Allah.(swt)

            Only because I love you a brother in humanity and hopefully in faith.
            If you want me to stop, I will respect your wishes , otherwise feel free to have inter religious dialogue with me.

            See another interesting link about science and Islam.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            John 6:44…..
            No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

          • Btru2u

            C’mon crosswinds is that your best comeback. Now your just being ignorant.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Amos 3:3
            Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

          • Btru2u

            Hi crosswinds.
            Oldest original Aramaic bible found in Turkey.

            A secret Bible in which Jesus is believed to predict the coming of the Prophet Muhammad to Earth has sparked serious interest from the Vatican.
            Pope Benedict XVI is claimed to want to see the 1,500-year-old book, which many say is the Gospel of Barnabas, that has been hidden by the Turkish state for the last 12 years.
            The £14million handwritten gold lettered tome, penned in Jesus’ native Aramaic language, is said to contain his early teachings and a prediction of the Prophet’s coming.

          • 5thDrawer

            After he came?

          • Btru2u

            12 proofs that Muhammef (PBUH) was a true prophet of God.
            1. Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) was raised illiterate, unable to read or write, and remained like that till his death. Among all his people, he was known as being truthful and trustworthy. Before receiving revelation, he had no prior knowledge of Religion or any previously sent Message. He remained like that for his first forty years. Revelation then came to Muhammad with theKoran that we now have between our hands. This Koran mentioned most of the accounts found in the previous scriptures, telling us about these events in the greatest detail as if he witnessed them. These accounts came precisely as they were found in the Torah sent down to Moses and in the Gospel sent down to Jesus. Neither the Jews or Christians were able to believe him regarding anything that he said.

            2. Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) also foretold of everything that wouldoccur to him and his community after him, pertaining to victory, the removal of the tyrannical kingdoms of Chosroes [the royal title for the Zoroastrian kings of Persia] and Caesar, and the establishment of the religion of Islam throughout the earth. These events occurred exactly as Muhammad foretold, as ifhe was reading the future from an open book.

            3. Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) also brought an Arabic Koran that isthe peak of eloquence and clarity. The Koran challenged those eloquent and fluent Arabs of his time, who initially belied him, to bring forth a single chapter like the Koran. The eloquent Arabs of his day were unable to contest this Koran.Indeed, till our day, none has ever dared to claim that he has been able to compose words that equal-or even approach-the order, grace, beauty, and splendor of this Glorious Koran.

            4. The life history of this Noble Prophet was a perfect example of being upright, merciful,compassionate, truthful, brave, generous, distant from all evil character, and ascetic in all worldly matters, while striving solely for the reward of the Hereafter. Moreover, in all his actions and dealings, he was ever mindful and fearful of Allah.

            5. Allah instilled great love for Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) in the hearts of all who believed in and met him. This love reached such a degree that any of his companions would willingly sacrifice his (or her) self, mother or father for him. Till today, those who believe in Muhammad honor and love him. Anyone of those who believe in him would ransom his own family and wealth to see him, even if but once.

            6. All of history has not preserved the biography of any person in the manner it has preserved the life of Muhammad, who is the most influential human in history. Nor has the entire earth known of anyone whom every morning and evening, and many times thereafter throughout the day, is thought of by those who believe in him. Upon rememberingMuhammad, the believers in him will greet him and ask Allah to bless him. They do such with full hearts and true love for him.

            7. Nor has there every been a man on earth whom is still followed in all his doings by those whobelieve in him. Those who believe in Muhammad, sleep in the manner he slept; purify themselves (through ablutionand ritual washing) in the manner he purified himself; and adhere to his practice in the way they eat, drink, and clothe themselves.

            Indeed in all aspects of their lives, the believers in Muhammad adhere to the teachings he spread among them and the path that he traveled upon during his life.

            During every generation, from his day till our time, the believers in this Noble prophet have fullyadhered to his teachings. With some, this has reached the degree that they desire to follow and adhere to the Prophet’s way in his personal matters regarding which Allah has not sought of them to adhere to in worship. For example, some will only eat those specific foods or only wear those specific garmentsthat the Messenger liked.

            Let alone all that, all those who believe in Muhammad repeat those praises of Allah, special prayers,and invocations that he would say during each of his actions during day and night, like: what he would say when he greeted people, upon entering and leaving the house, entering and leaving the mosque, entering and leaving the bathroom, going to sleep and awaking from sleep, observing the new crescent, observing the new fruit on trees, eating, drinking, dressing, riding, traveling and returning from travel, etc. Let alone all that, all those who believe in Muhammad fully perform-even to the minute detail-every act of worship-like prayer, fasting, charity, and pilgrimage-as this Noble Messenger (may Allah’s blessingsand peace be upon him) taught and as he himself performed.All of this allows those who believe in him, to live their lives in all aspects with this Noble Messenger as their example, as if he was standing before them, for them to follow in all their doings.

            8. There has never been nor will there ever be a man anywhere upon this earth who has received suchlove, respect, honor, and obedience in all matters-small and large alike-as has this Noble Prophet.

            9. Since his day, in every region of the earth and during every period, this Noble Prophet has beenfollowed by individuals from all races, colors and peoples. Many of those who followed him were previously Christians, Jews, pagans, idolaters, or without any religion. Among those who chose to follow him, were those who were known for their sound judgment, wisdom, reflection, and foresight. They chose to follow this Noble Prophet after they witnessed the signs of his truthfulness and the evidences of his miracles. They did not choose to follow Muhammad out of compulsion or coercion orbecause they had adopted the ways of their fathers and mothers.Indeed many of the followers of this Prophet (may Allah’s blessings peace be upon him), chose to follow him during the time when Islam was weak, when there were few Muslims, and when there was severe persecution of his followers on earth. Most people who have followed this Prophet (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) have done so not to acquire some material benefits. Indeed many of his followers have suffered the greatest forms of harm and persecution as a result of followingthis Prophet. Despite all this harm and persecution, this did not turn them back from his religion. My brethren! All of this clearly indicates to anyone possessing any sense, that this Prophet was truly and really Allah’s messenger and that he was not just a man who claimed prophethood or spoke aboutAllah without knowledge.

            10. With all this, Muhammad came with a great religion in its credal and legal make-up. Muhammad described Allah with qualities of complete perfection, and at the same time in a manner that is free of ascribing to Him any imperfection. Neither the philosophers or the wise could ever describe Allah like such. Indeed it is impossible to imagine that any human mind could conceive of an existing being that possesses such complete ability, knowledge, and greatness; Who has subdued thecreation; Who has encompassed everything in the universe, small or large; and Who possesses such perfect mercy.Nor is it in the ability of any human being to place a perfect law based upon justice, equality, mercy and objectivity for all human activity on earth like the laws that Muhammad brought for all spheres of human activity – like buying and selling, marriage and divorce, renting, testimony, custody, and all othercontracts that are necessary to uphold life and civilization on earth.

            11. It is impossible that any person conceive wisdom, morals, good manners, nobleness of charactersas what this honorable Prophet (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him) brought. In a full and complete manner, Muhammad spread a teaching regarding character and manners towardone’ parents, relatives, fiends, family, humanity, animals, plants and inanimate objects. It is impossible for the human mind alone to grasp all of that teaching or come with a similar teaching. All of that unequivocally indicates that this Messenger did not bring an) of this religion from his own accord, but that it was rather a teaching and inspiration that he received from the One Who created the earth and the high heavens above and created this universe in its miraculous architecture andperfection.

            12. The legal and credal make-up of the religion that the Messenger, Muhammad, (may Allah’sblessings and peace be upon him) brought resembles the engineering of the heavens and the earth. All of that indicates that He who created the heavens and the earth is the One Who sent down this great law and upright religion. The degree of inimitability of the Divine law that was sent down upon Muhammad is to the same degree of inimitability of the Divine creation of the heavens and earth. For just as humanity cannot create this universe, in the same manner humanity cannot bring forth a law like Allah’s law that He sent down upon His servant and messenger Muhammad (may Allah’s blessings and peace be upon him).

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRtmMxB5yw CrossWinds

            Revelation is the final Revelation…..

            Revelation 22:18….
            For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

          • Hannibal

            Don’t touch my credit cards ;)

  • cook

    “That half of his farm lies in Syria and half in Lebanon is a source of mystery”

    I dont get it, there isnt a fence between two countries?

    • man-o-war

      There are borders, kind of like imaginary fences. You should be able to understand that, after all you have a very vivid imagination.

      • cook

        Why arent there fences? And then you complain about terrorists walking into Lebanon whenever they want

        • 5thDrawer

          In Israel they want to put a fence through ancient monastery lands growing crops – which will kill the crops because they can’t be tended. Who’s great ‘mapping’ idea is that? Fencing indeed. WHY should Anyone need a fence, IF they agree on the usage? Many farmers of the ancient lands called ‘Palestine’ were pushed away in many places – even with their ‘family deeds’ from before the Ottoman days. Because someone somewhere draws a line on a map? Doesn’t make good neighbours, a fence.
          The ‘heads’ after WWI didn’t do very well with planning in many places, since they still had a sort of ‘winner’ attitude … and caused WWII by impoverishing the Germans, actually – Like Turkey does to the Armenians. Changed the attitude a little after WWII and helped Germans … and Russians too, even if their politics stank to high heaven. But the Middle East lines devolved and were redrawn again to create a ‘safe place’ for the first ‘One God’ religion. And Religion is the stupidest idea for creating anything economically viable, right??
          It’s the craziest idea for dividing it too.

          • cook

            um maybe because when Arafat rejected the Clinton Parameters (an offer for a state) and started the second intifada, hundreds of suicide bombers went all around Israel blowing up buses and cafes, and thousands of Israelis were killed.

            I personally remember a restaurant by the beach being blown up (28 killed) and also a bus full of people.

            After the security barrier was built, suicide bombings went down by 99%.

            A bunch of animals and terrorists these PLO thugs are

          • 5thDrawer

            Yah. I saw the news. I agree. Too sad. And as the article and history show, it becomes a case of ‘retaliation’ on all sides. 18 sect/tribes going at each other’s throats all the time …. forever.

          • cook

            Just wait for a palestinian state, within a week the PA will collapse and every day you’ll read about rocket attacks in Gen Gurion airport and central Tel Aviv.

            Such attacks were regular when Jordan was in control of the West Bank, to the extent that some Israelis used to refer to the 1949 armistice lines as “Auschwitz lines”

          • 5thDrawer

            And we are amazed to see that 200,000 people ‘signed up’ – attempting to be selected to be on the Mars expeditions. :-)))

          • cook

            Meh, I was actually discussing the Mars mission w/ friends today, sounds adventurous but no more bacon, and tough luck if you dont find a partner no bj either lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo

          • 5thDrawer

            No scotch and smokes either. ;-) But there IS a ‘return’ plan now – if they can convince NASA to ‘allow’ it (30 yrs holding it back so far) – problem being that it obviates the ‘great NASA’ plan of playing expensive leapfrog which was their pet.
            (earth to space station to moon to mars) VS (direct – and return in 18 months)
            See .. ‘Mars Society’.

          • cook

            Should learn to find food there, cant go importing all the time from Earth, imagine the British Empire getting all its food from the UK, ugh, what a life

          • 5thDrawer

            Mars has all the ingredients – even to make falafels. :-)))))
            (first 20 years a little rough … but then, you could have been on the praries in 1880 too …)( refining food production for next 100 – small spans in human-expansion terms.)

          • cook

            They can try eating rocks, nom

          • 5thDrawer

            But seriously. They can produce fuel for return journeys there. Machine for that is already made. If people WANT to go, why is anyone holding them back?

          • cook

            One day theyll probably have daily flights back and forth, no doubt. Do you think there could be oil on Mars or other planets? or is that an earth thing

          • 5thDrawer

            Power of the ‘Sun God’. As always, the best. :-)) Earth’s oil can be for the wheels.

          • cook

            Question, do you believe in the multiverse theory? That there are other planets where there are people just like us, but of course slightly different outcomes. Ive always wondered that if this is true, if some of our dreams are us in a different planet

          • 5thDrawer

            Not multiverse … just a huge one with many possibles … and we’ll never know if we don’t look. Same as sailing a ship off the edge of the earth, we seek to know.
            Other very similar life-forms I think ARE probable … we know the ingredients that are needed for ours. And yes, some believe we came from there originally … to ‘settle in’ once the planet cooled down and had an atmosphere we could breathe. But this is doubtful, I think … knowing how far and dangerous the journeys would need to be.

          • cook

            My favorite question: Why is there something instead of nothing?

          • 5thDrawer

            Then maybe you should read a recent book named: ‘A Universe From Nothing’.
            I’m not the Quantum Physicist with the answers, after all. :-)))
            And .. before going into it too far … allow me to say that MANY scientific minds have been held back or have ‘adjusted’ theories to fit inside the ‘God’ theory – just so they can make some money from being published. ;-)

          • cook

            Not from a physics point of view (HOW we came about is more or less well researched), but why

          • 5thDrawer

            Then only ask, ‘Why Not’. I exist, therefore I am. And that’s about it.
            P.S. Doesn’t mean I should be bored by that.

          • cook

            Most hours of the early morning I exist to spam the internet. LOL

          • 5thDrawer

            And I attempt to beat the ‘average’ life-span, with just enough sleep.
            And occasional food input. :-))))

          • …some guy

            Send Dennis rodman and Kim junk puke there and see how long their friendship lasts before the A1 sauce comes out with a Jeffery dahmer recipe.

          • 5thDrawer

            Geo. Speaking of Rodman … have you seen his latest? Over the top. He’s flipped out over too many baskets. Rapidly becoming a ‘basket-case’ for Kimmy, ;-)

          • libnan1

            No bjs, I’ll jump back in no time!!

          • cook

            Its terrible, its not like going on holiday somewhere on earth then just book a return ticket when you get fed up, literally no way of getting back if NASA doesnt invest in a return journey.

    • 5thDrawer

      Where is there a fence between Canada and USA except at border crossing roads? (Which Europeans wisely did away with.) (Recent American ‘terrorist paranoia’ is beginning one in a sense … unfortunately .. with ‘modern’ electronics.)

      • cook

        I dont know maybe the Middle East shouldnt be handled as if having neighbors like Canada and Switzerland

  • cook2half

    “That half of his farm lies in Syria and half in Lebanon is a source of mystery”

    I dont get it, there isnt a fence between two countries?

    • man-o-war

      There are borders, kind of like imaginary fences. You should be able to understand that, after all you have a very vivid imagination.

      • cook2half

        Why arent there fences? And then you complain about terrorists walking into Lebanon whenever they want

        • 5thDrawer

          In Israel they want to put a fence through ancient monastery lands growing crops – which will kill the crops because they can’t be tended. Who’s great ‘mapping’ idea is that? Fencing indeed. WHY should Anyone need a fence, IF they agree on the usage? Many farmers of the ancient lands called ‘Palestine’ were pushed away in many places – even with their ‘family deeds’ from before the Ottoman days. Because someone somewhere draws a line on a map? Doesn’t make good neighbours, a fence.
          The ‘heads’ after WWI didn’t do very well in many places, since they still had a sort of ‘winner’ attitude … and caused WWII by impoverishing the Germans, actually – Like Turkey does to the Armenians. Changed the attitude a little after WWII and helped Germans … and Russians too, even if their politics stank to high heaven. But the Middle East lines devolved and were redrawn again to create a ‘safe place’ for the first ‘One God’ religion. And Religion is the stupidest idea for creating anything economically viable, right??
          It’s the craziest idea for dividing it too.

          • cook2half

            um maybe because when Arafat rejected the Clinton Parameters (an offer for a state) and started the second intifada, hundreds of suicide bombers went all around Israel blowing up buses and cafes, and thousands of Israelis were killed.

            I personally remember a restaurant by the beach being blown up (28 killed) and also a bus full of people.

            After the security barrier was built, suicide bombings went down by 99%.

            A bunch of animals and terrorists these PLO thugs are

          • 5thDrawer

            Yah. I saw the news. I agree. Too sad. And as the article and history show, it becomes a case of ‘retaliation’ on all sides. 18 sect/tribes going at each other’s throats all the time …. forever.

          • cook2half

            Just wait for a palestinian state, within a week the PA will collapse and every day you’ll read about rocket attacks in Gen Gurion airport and central Tel Aviv.

            Such attacks were regular when Jordan was in control of the West Bank, to the extent that some Israelis used to refer to the 1949 armistice lines as “Auschwitz lines”

          • 5thDrawer

            And we are amazed to see that 200,000 people ‘signed up’ – attempting to be selected to be on the Mars expeditions. :-)))

          • cook2half

            Meh, I was actually discussing the Mars mission w/ friends today, sounds adventurous but no more bacon, and tough luck if you dont find a partner no bj either lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo

          • 5thDrawer

            No scotch and smokes either. ;-) But there IS a ‘return’ plan now – if they can convince NASA to ‘allow’ it (30 yrs holding it back so far) – problem being that it obviates the ‘great NASA’ plan of playing expensive leapfrog which was their pet.
            (earth to space station to moon to mars) VS (direct – and return in 18 months)

          • cook2half

            Should learn to find food there, cant go importing all the time from Earth, imagine the British Empire getting all its food from the UK, ugh, what a life

          • 5thDrawer

            Mars has all the ingredients – even to make falafels. :-)))))

          • cook2half

            They can try eating rocks, nom

          • 5thDrawer

            But seriously. They can produce fuel for return journeys there. Machine for that is already made. If people WANT to go, why is anyone holding them back?

          • cook2half

            One day theyll probably have daily flights back and forth, no doubt. Do you think there could be oil on Mars or other planets? or is that an earth thing

          • 5thDrawer

            Power of the ‘Sun God’. As always, the best. :-)) Earth’s oil can be for the wheels.

          • cook2half

            Question, do you believe in the multiverse theory? That there are other planets where there are people just like us, but of course slightly different outcomes. Ive always wondered that if this is true, if some of our dreams are us in a different planet

          • 5thDrawer

            Not multiverse … just a huge one with many possibles … and we’ll never know if we don’t look. Same as sailing a ship off the edge of the earth, we seek to know.
            Other very similar life-forms I think ARE probable … we know the ingredients that are needed for ours. And yes, some believe we came from there originally … to ‘settle in’ once the planet cooled down and had an atmosphere we could breathe. But this is doubtful, I think … knowing how far and dangerous the journeys would need to be.

          • cook2half

            My favorite question: Why is there something instead of nothing?

          • 5thDrawer

            Then maybe you should read a recent book named: ‘A Universe From Nothing’.
            I’m not the Quantum Physicist with the answers, after all. :-)))
            And .. before going into it too far … allow me to say that MANY scientific minds have been held back or have ‘adjusted’ theories to fit inside the ‘God’ theory – just so they can make some money from being published. ;-)

          • cook2half

            Not from a physics point of view (HOW we came about is more or less well researched), but why

          • 5thDrawer

            Then only ask, ‘Why Not’. I exist, therefore I am. And that’s about it.

          • cook2half

            Most hours of the early morning I exist to spam the internet. LOL

          • 5thDrawer

            And I attempt to beat the ‘average’ life-span, with just enough sleep.
            And occasional food input. :-))))

          • Geo

            Send Dennis rodman and Kim junk puke there and see how long their friendship lasts before the A1 sauce comes out with a Jeffery dahmer recipe.

          • 5thDrawer

            Geo. Speaking of Rodman … have you seen his latest? Over the top. He’s flipped out over too many baskets. Rapidly becoming a ‘basket-case’ for Kimmy, ;-)

          • libnan1

            No bjs, I’ll jump back in no time!!

          • cook2half

            Its terrible, its not like going on holiday somewhere on earth then just book a return ticket when you get fed up, literally no way of getting back if NASA doesnt invest in a return journey.

    • 5thDrawer

      Where is there a fence between Canada and USA except at border crossing roads? (Which Europeans wisely did away with.) (Recent American ‘terrorist paranoia’ is beginning one in a sense … unfortunately .. with ‘modern’ electronics.)

      • cook2half

        I dont know maybe the Middle East shouldnt be handled as if having neighbors like Canada and Switzerland

  • cook

    Wait a second, you mean, Europeans created these countries? I thought there was a country called palestine and evil Jews somehow settled in it and then stole it

    From the article: “The result was the creation of nation-states where none had existed before” LOL

    • man-o-war

      No Israel and no Palestine, correct. There was a geographical region called Palestine. People lived in this region and they were Jews, Muslims, and Christians (maybe more I don’t know about). Nation-states did not exist in the region until the Brits and French carved it up and created borders.

      • cook

        Wow man-o, I am like, Ive never admired you this much, LOL. Perfect post כל הכבוד

  • cook2half

    Wait a second, you mean, Europeans created these countries? I thought there was a country called palestine and evil Jews somehow settled in it and then stole it

    • man-o-war

      No Israel and no Palestine, correct. There was a geographical region called Palestine. People lived in this region and they were Jews, Muslims, and Christians (maybe more I don’t know about). Nation-states did not exist in the region until the Brits and French carved it up and created borders.

      • cook2half

        Wow man-o, I am like, Ive never admired you this much, LOL. Perfect post כל הכבוד

  • zabada

    I guess Sunni will have more land.

  • zabada

    I guess Sunni will have more land.