Pope Francis: “Who am I to judge?”

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pope francis “Who am I to judge?”Pope Francis on Monday continued to recast the Catholic Church’s image by focusing on its inviting, merciful aspects, this time shocking a planeload of reporters by saying of homosexuality: “Who am I to judge?”

“If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?” the leader of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics said in a remarkably candid and off-the-cuff news conference en route to Rome from Brazil. “They shouldn’t be marginalized.”

The pope’s seemingly casual remark was another example of his approachable style, which was on full display during his visit to Rio de Janeiro for World Youth Day. He carried his own bag onto the plane and traveled around Rio in a small Fiat without being shielded by hordes of security guards. He met with recovering drug addicts in a hospital and condemned inequality in a visit to crime-ridden slums.

He made his comments about gays, signaling that the church looks on them as brothers and sisters, as he fielded questions from reporters for an 80-minute stretch, at times leaning on the back of an airplane seat as if he were just another passenger. With his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, reporters had to submit questions ahead of time, and the Vatican decided which ones the pontiff would answer.

Pope Francis  made his comments about gays, signaling that the church looks on them as brothers and sisters, as he fielded questions from reporters for an 80-minute stretch, at times leaning on the back of an airplane seat as if he were just another passenger.
Pope Francis made his comments about gays, signaling that the church looks on them as brothers and sisters, as he fielded questions from reporters for an 80-minute stretch, at times leaning on the back of an airplane seat as if he were just another passenger.

Church insiders say this is the first time in recent memory that a pope has given so much time to reporters — and done so off-script. Francis’s brief papacy has been marked by the candor of his comments on atheism, poverty and now, homosexuality, a topic that was broached when a reporter asked about allegations of corruption within a “gay lobby” of priests at the Vatican.

“When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby,” Francis said, according to a transcript provided by the National Catholic Reporter. He added that “the tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem . . . they’re our brothers.”

The news conference marked the first time that Francis has addressed homosexuality during his four months as pontiff.

His predecessor made remarks that many gay Catholics interpreted as hostile. Even though Benedict called on Catholics to show “great respect for [gay] people,” he oversaw the publication of a church document that called homosexual inclinations “disordered” and called for men with “deep-seated” gay tendencies to be barred from the priesthood. He also said same-sex marriage was an insidious threat to the common good.

So Francis’s remarks were greeted warmly by advocates for gay and lesbian Catholics, who spoke of suddenly feeling welcome instead of being outcasts.

“Pope Francis today uttered some of the most encouraging words a pontiff has ever spoken about gay and lesbian people,” said a statement by Equally Blessed, a coalition of four groups working with LGBT Catholics and their families.

Marianne Duddy-Burke, executive director of Dignity USA, an activist organization for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Catholics, said the pope’s words will make many feel accepted by their church for the first time.

“Just imagine if you’re somebody trying to come to terms with your identity and hearing the pope acknowledge that you can be a person of faith and goodwill, and still be gay or lesbian, and how that contrasts with somebody saying that your love for another person of the same sex is going to bring down society,” she said. “There’s such an empowerment and sense of acceptance.

“I don’t think anybody expected any kind of overnight change,” Duddy-Burke added. “What we find hopeful in this is that there may be the door opening a little bit, and I think the next step would need to be an indication that there’s a willingness to listen to the stories and the experiences of LGBT people and of our families, and hear of our challenges of staying in the church and also what gifts we have to offer.”

Others said bigger changes are sure to follow.

“I think change in the church is evolutionary and not revolutionary,” said Francis DeBernardo, who heads New Ways Ministry, which works with gay Catholics and their families. “If we want to see real change, we have to take it step by step. We’ve been waiting for this first step for a long time. No one in the papacy has taken this kind of step, ever.”

The remarks Francis made on the plane underscore his reputation as a conservative and a pragmatist. In 2010, as cardinal of Argentina, Francis worked behind the scenes to persuade bishops to support civil unions for gay couples — primarily because he saw them as a way to ward off full-fledged marriage for gays.

Many Catholic commentators said the pope’s remarks, while stylistically different, were similar in substance to previous church doctrine.

In a statement on his Web site, William Donohue of the Catholic League said Francis is carrying on a policy enunciated by Benedict:

“Pope Benedict XVI, responding to the homosexual scandal in the Catholic Church . . . did not make it impossible for gays to enter the priesthood; he simply made it more difficult for those who were practicing gays to enter. Pope Francis said nothing to contradict what his predecessor said.”

Chad C. Pecknold, an assistant professor of theology at Catholic University who has written on the papacy, said that “people are right to perceive a change in tone and that that tone is a pastoral tone on the question of homosexual inclinations.”

Pecknold noted that Francis told reporters he did not mention abortion or same-sex marriage before his trip to Brazil because he wanted to sound “positive.”

Rather than “beginning the conversation with what the church teaches about what one shouldn’t do,” Pecknold said, the pope “wants to begin the conversation about what it means to enter into the mercy of God.”

Michael Sean Winters, an author who writes for the National Catholic Reporter, said Francis’s take on gays in the church is part of his graceful style.

“He’s not saying, ‘Look, there is no sin,’ although he does tend to talk of the sins of savage capitalism more than he does of secularizing humanists. He is leading with mercy. He never wags his finger.”

“He’s not saying, ‘Look, there is no sin,’ although he does tend to talk of the sins of savage capitalism more than he does of secularizing humanists. He is leading with mercy. He never wags his finger.”

Pecknold called Francis an “agent of renewal” for the church.

“I think the world likes a good comeback story,” he said. “There’s a sense in which the Catholic Church has been riled by scandal in the third quarter of the 20th century, and it’s time to come back from this.

“I think there’s a palpable sense that people want to see the church succeed. . . . I think there is this palpable sense that Pope Francis might be that agent of renewal who enables people to say, ‘It’s cool to be Catholic.’ ”

Washington Post

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114 responses to “Pope Francis: “Who am I to judge?””

  1. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    Happy to see they quote him accurately. And yes, a most refreshing ‘leader’.

    1. MekensehParty Avatar
      MekensehParty

      Fresh thinking indeed
      It’s a step forward… with thousands of steps on the way to salvaging Catholicism, but a step forward nonetheless.
      Thank you Pope Francis, keep it up.

      1. Hannibal Avatar
        Hannibal

        Keep what up? Are you thinking what I’m thinking? Now that he does not judge?

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          You are nasty too … 😉

          1. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            See!
            now he’s calling the pope a homo just because of what he said.
            If God Himself asks Hannibal to stop being a homophobe, Hanni will tell God that He’s gay!
            lololol

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Let’s see if ‘The Great El Supremo’ can get better press after this trip. 😉

          3. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Although I never said anything against or for homosexuality which you erroneously accuse me of being a homophobe let me ask you this:
            If you do follow a religion, any religion, can you give me any line from religious books that condone homosexuality? Of course if you consider yourself an atheist or agnostic the question is moot. As I said before, I am neither against nor for the orientation. I mind my own business. I know also that gays cannot help it… It is not really a choice for them as if you choose between good or evil.
            I do however have a problem with gay marriage. I do support a legal union between them but not a marriage in the traditional meaning of it as Jesus said of marriage: “Have you not read that He who made them from the beginning made them male and female” speaking of marriage.

            If you continue, unfairly, accusing me of something I am not, that is your problem.

          4. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Jesus also allowed for men to marry 12 year old girls, or 10, or even 9 as long as she flowered. Is that a better marriage than a same-sex marriage?
            You say they “cannot help it”, I ask help what, and is help really required?
            You have made attacks against homosexuals, you use all associated words in a derogative way… I’m not inventing all this. I’m glad though that you are coming to your senses and a late mea culpa is better than no mea culpa at all. I’ll stop calling you a homophobe if you stop attacking homosexuals.
            Deal?

          5. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Aside from historical data on marrying-ages … which cultural event changed along with human longevity … and certain religious practices as well as laws having basically upped the minimum ages in most countries in accordance with knowledge and recognition of both male & female body-development needs, as well as mental capacity for baby-care … two guys calling each other ‘homo’ does not mean they are ‘homophobic’ in real life.
            (although … hmmmm … perhaps it’s a clever disguise, by two homos …. ;-)))

          6. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            What I am saying is that they have no choice… I have friends who were married and had kids because that was the “norm” only to divorce their wives and go with a man. To me as a straight individual I cannot fathom the complexity of it all as I have been attracted to Brunettes since my early years. One may ask why not blondes? I can’t help it (and that is what I meant). Not that they need help. You my friend listen to answer not to understand and that is your problem.
            I may have had some jokes here and there but I never attacked homosexuals. I will be glad to review my comments if you find any.
            I am curious though as to your comment… Are you sure Jesus allowed men to marry 12 years old? Can you show me the reference or quote Him saying that? I really doubt it.

          7. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yah … I’m waiting for that quote too.
            And curiously, brunettes also always get my main attention. 😉 Must be genetic I think … like the other things in life. Built-in preferences. Cheers. :-))
            (Not that I’m against sampling … but there ARE differences in scotch.)

          8. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Hmmmm am I talking to my competition? God I hope me wify does not read this… lol

          9. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            LOL … x2

          10. I hope my wife is not reading either! shhhh I am totally lesbian 🙂

          11. Hannibal Avatar

            Keep waiting… That dude is confused… ma 3erfeen wayn Allah 7aato.

          12. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            @5thDrawer:disqus Jesus did not say it’s ok to marry (and sleep with) what we consider today a child but it seems that he didn’t oppose it (He who seems to know all the answers forever and ever) simply not mentioning it or what he said about the subject was not repeated and one more possibility is that it has been erased… In any case, that was normal at the time, Mary is believed to be 14 when she delivered baby Jesus and this is exactly my point about the message of Jesus not being eternal or unchangeable. What was normal then is considered a crime today, if a child of 13 called Mary today tells her parent that she has been impregnated by a guy named Gabriel sent by God, we’ll put Gabriel and God in jail and call them pedophiles and the baby born from the hideous crime has little chance to spread the word of his (criminal) father. What used to apply before can not apply today. Marriage is not a Christian exclusive invention. Any two people can decide to call themselves married with or without the consent of the church, I don’t understand why Christians feel that it’s a direct attack on them or their traditions. What’s the big fuss? if two persons of the same sex want to call themselves a married couple – who are Christians to judge? and this is exactly what the Pope said.

          13. Hannibal Avatar

            You are offending millions of Christians making fun of their faith and that is ok… A forward thinker indeed uuuh more like a bigot?

          14. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Christians? what Christians? the ones like you?
            you’re not Christian! Christianity was born 2000 years ago, you’ve been on the tree for like a million years (and still there even if the Americans or Swiss called you a man).
            You have nothing to do with Christians, you’re an @$$hole remember?

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            You know the problem here Mekenseh/Hannibal.
            None of us in here are ‘pure’ Theologians.
            We all relate those ‘religious thoughts’ to our real-life experience, and try to fit them in on the side, instead of living in the dream-land of ‘the book’; and just running around shooting anyone who disturbs the dream. :-)))
            God/Allah doesn’t blog. He’s too smart. ;-))))

          16. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I’m not claiming to know it all but I know for a fact that I live far from the “religious” utopia or the dream as you call it. I get itchy when self-proclaimed Christians want to bring me back to the herd of believers when they actually live so close to the fires of Satan that their pants are on fire.

          17. Hannibal Avatar

            confused as I said…

          18. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            That’s it … I’m out to look at ‘The Sun’. (packing flask along, of course.)

          19. Hannibal Avatar

            Use a lot of sun screen… The Sun was a god at one time.

          20. I just fell of the wagon too 5th, Mekenseh and Hannibal need to have a rodney king moment….”can we get along” 🙂

          21. Hannibal Avatar

            this is what you sound like:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BNbHBcnDI

            Mekenseh: Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine……
            As to the Swiss or Americans calling me a man… Really it does not matter because your mother did… Ask her.

          22. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            You mean one of my 2 fathers?
            nice

          23. Hannibal Avatar

            Remember two men do not reproduce… I curse the day I produced you 😉

          24. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I know why your tongue is so loose
            you kept pinching it down to lick your own dick

          25. Hannibal Avatar

            you have my tongue confused with yours… I told you I do not swing this way find another man.

          26. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            wow, great come back
            soon you’ll tell me “kell chi byerja3lak”

          27. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Now you’re being nice to Geo … 😉 Cute birds … :-))))

          28. Hannibal Avatar

            lol

          29. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yes Mekenseh … I agree .. when life expectancy for the general population was around 30, humans had to get it all in fast. 🙂 There ARE many things that were written of what Jesus and other prophets had said, which were left out of later ‘scripture’ versions due either to being ‘out-of-date’ in general thought and practice, or to not being suited to the politics of another era. (Ref: Nag Hammadi – Agnostic Gospels …. etc.) Translations probably affected a lot too.
            If we assume everything in the early Koran was ‘right’ to start with, we know it changed afterward only … and was added to immensely … and then got stuck.
            Which form of ‘changing thought’ is a worse thing to subject humans to?

          30. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            To reply about your insulting words and your homophobia, go back on this site to an article named geagea- Hezbollah -is- taking-lebanon-as-hostage and read and tell me if I’m right to call you a homophobe and a bully.
            Note that I simply asked you then to say you’re sorry for your insulting words to which you replied that you’ll never apologize because you’re a “Lebanese a$$hole”

          31. Hannibal Avatar

            I fail to see where is the link between what I said and homophobe?
            You have a serious argument problem… be7kiik bell chare2 betjeewib bell ghareb… hay2etak makhloul big time.
            Now being a bully if you attack Lebanon I have no problem with that… I will bully your ass from here until eternity… You seem to enjoy it (how is that for a homophobe for you?) Apologize this… leyk malla zeb aal he asks me to apologize miinak ya khara? ruu7 ndab. oooooh you are going to cry I’m bullying you? Well I am… and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

          32. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I wonder how close you are to the administrator of this site because I’ve seen bloggers getting kicked out for much less than that. I’ve had heated debates with many on this blog but few have a level as low as yours.
            You think you’re bullying me? hah, funny, you’re only showing what a degenerate pos you are for all to read.
            Keep talking and insulting people, who cares what a retard like you thinks…

          33. Hannibal Avatar

            I only attack when attacked or my country is attacked verbally or physically from inside or outside… You have a problem with that?
            Now go back and reread ALL the posts and see if I ever attacked you… You began to call me names and I simply fired back.
            Stay out of my way I will stay out of yours… Really simple for the simplest of mind like the one you have.

          34. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            GOD came to me and told me to keep attacking animals like you.
            I gave you two olive branches and you returned both with vile insults and since such vocab seems to be accepted on this site I have a thesaurus of insults for lesser organisms like you.
            Screw you and that jungle country of yours, garbage mountains and sewer parks from Akkar to Bint Jbeil and shit people living like dogs and controlled by a militia who has a boot on your necks, the same neck that was under the Syrian boot, the Palestinian boot, the French, the German, the Turk, the Arab and on and on and on.
            Wonder why they call you the people of the meshayet.
            Suck on that fufu

          35. Hannibal Avatar

            Same sex marriage does not exist. It is not natural. A marriage is between a man, A MAN, A MAN and a woman, A WOMAN, A WOMAN… You wanna call the other thingy a union so be it… But it is NOT a marriage.
            Just imagine A MAN calling his partner, another MAN, My Wife… He He Weird. A union between partners for legalese is more like it.

          36. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yah. I agree with you. But it’s more about keeping the definition of a word the same as far as I’m concerned. There should be a new word for ‘it’.
            Union is what it’s all about. Two people feeling good enough about each other can be life-partners and share the experience – without bothering anyone else, OR causing any unnatural bent in progeny either.
            Does it really need a preacher to sanction it?

          37. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Not only are they going to get MARRIED and call each other wife, husband or hanibalisahomophobe but they’re going to live in the apartment on top and next to you, they will parade on the streets, kiss in the parks and your children and children’s children are going to play with their kids and some might even be attracted to the same sex too and you will hit your head on the wall for years and years but guess what you can’t do anything about it coz you ain’t living in shi!!y Lebanon here where the likes of you turned into what they are!
            ruminate on that little punk and if you don’t like it time to buy an airplane ticket and go back to the cave of Jeita that you should have never left!

      2. A step forward towards popularity with the masses and a long leap away from loud and clear scriptural view of the subject, thank him for What? diluting accurate knowledge to gain popularity by ducking the issue?

        true Christians were never popular in the beginning and were fed to lions because of their stand, practicing true Christianity would not be fashionable in todays culture either.

        1. MekensehParty Avatar
          MekensehParty

          Well you answered yourself to your own question, practicing “true” Christianity is not fashionable since “true” Christianity has been fixed in time some 2000 years ago and does not answer present issues. I thank him for moving away from these rigid scriptural views and bringing a new understanding or a new interpretation of these scriptures, most important among all is that the Pope, highest figure of the earthly kingdom of god, is no judge.
          By essence, a religion needs to be popular to spread and Catholicism has been on the defense for more than a century now simply because of unpopular scriptures. Should the Pope stick to these scriptures written centuries ago and see the churches emptying? Or should he wake up and recognize that the old messages no longer apply?
          Another quick point, if the Christians do not move away from obsolete scriptures, how can they ask Muslims to move away from obsolete scriptures?

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            By Laws which are secular and equal in nature, for ALL ‘believers’.

          2. Mekenseh, with all due respect and humility I have to say that you could not possibly believe or be familiar with all the things jesus said if you keep thinking that you can revise what defines the principles of a christian way of life.

            Imagine an owners manual for a hyundai being used to maintain a ferrari… the results would be a disaster! If the pope was a representative of god in any way he would have exacting answers specificaly relating and reiterating that the kingdom of god that jesus spoke about as the good news for all mankind!

            you can rewrite christianity all you want but you would only confirm what jesus said about false christianity in Matthew 24:4 Jesus says “look out that nobody misleads you for many will come on the basis on my name and mislead many”
            clearly he stated that those who mislead will be very successfull at misleading others into what defines a christian. the majority of christian people have never read he bible for themselves and are totally unfamiliar with the significance and relevance of what he said back then that absolutley applies to every thing today.

          3. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Same here Geo, always a pleasure having a nice conversation.
            So are you saying that this is a marketing stunt and that the Pope has betrayed the true meaning of Christianity to keep his Mercedes?

          4. No pun intended Mekneseh, but who am I to judge…I mean it !

            I cant help but share a couple of points that are very relevant.
            misinformation or lies have been used to distance mankind from god from the beginning of time, there is a big difference between accurate and inaccurate knowlage, satan bamboozeled eve by telling her that the minute she ate from that tree she would become just like god. If you read the passage and see the works of the cautious and experienced snake

            you will recall Jimmy jones, david koresh, Marshall Applewhite and many curent jihadists promised a herd of virgins shortly after they judge and blow civilians to smitherines totally convinced by some carismatic religious leader to follow orders and the calling of a mission for god. since there is no shortage of falsEhood and motive we are wise and obligated to search and verify what the fruit is and what tree it is born from. I know talking religion sucks but I sometimes I cant stand by selling pop corn as I see the damage it has done rather than nourishing and uniting people to show favor to one another.

          5. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I agree that there are a lot of “false” prophets and that many came in the name of God to spread their message only to turn into scammers eyeing the property of their followers. But let’s concentrate on the “real” prophets and since it’s about the Church we’re talking, on Jesus.
            Jesus came at a time where the Old Testament became unbearable for its lack of actuality. The OT’s principles and laws were simply obsolete or to remain politically correct inapplicable in the “modern” society of the first century. What Jesus did is to “reform” such principles and laws and DELETED some of these old divine laws to replace them with modern ones. Totally scrapping the eye for an eye divine law of the OT and replace it with “forgiveness” was a revolution by itself. A revolution against the old beliefs that prompted the guardians of the Jewish religion to call him a heretic and allow his crucification.
            The modern message of Christ, that perfectly applied to modern society at the time, crossed all borders and Christianity spread from one end of the “flat world” to the other. Civilizations based their laws and principles on it and the religion evolved and spread throughout the time.
            Today, while the essence of the message of Christ is still the engine pushing civilizations forward, some of his messages or the way they have been interpreted throughout the years, no longer apply.
            Don’t you think that, just like Jesus appeared to reform the OT and turn it into a modern book accepted by his contemporary and is the basis to build a future on (because that is indeed the strength of the message of Jesus – not only was his message modern in its time but it also applies to centuries or millennia to come) Christianity is in need of a person or persons to reinterpret this two thousand years old message?

          6. First Thanks for your reply, you already know that this is not a a 5 minute conversation lol, but I will share with you that I was born in lebanon to one of the christian faiths that neither administered spiritual milk or beef!

            basically besides common holidays and carbon copy sunday sermons that would put anyone in a coma with no answers whatsoever about life, death. politcs, civil war etc, it is only when you get away from the herd and have your own mind to deliberate the search for bible truth and not traditional passed on feel good christianity that you realize that it is contrary to everything jesus taught that we should believe that we can fix this world by adapting and revising biblical principals!

            when jesus was being asked a trick question as to what commandment is the most important one was, his reply was to love your neighbour as you love your self…it is not a law but a principle that would automatically make for a perfect world, not based on color, race,flag. ethinicity but that jesus himself chose it over any other answer he could have chose….ask your self do self professing christians today apply that principle with each other on daily basis?

            The whole significance of jesus dying as a perfect man was to undo what another perfect men introduced to his offspring! if you owed $100.000 in taxes and I decided to intervene and pay to relieve you form that debt 100,000 pesos would not do the trick, would it? it would have to be in dollar currency to make it go away!

            many people miss the fact that jesus return would not be physical but a spiritual one as a king over paradise like conditions that have nothing to do with the world as it is today, the good news he spoke about and demonstrations of raising dead, healing blind was a display of his capabilities and things to come but only after we all realize that eve and adam were wrong, WE CAN NOT self rule, we are not qualified as we are too biased,imperfect and corrupt! look at all the so called christian leaders today and all the questionable things they have under their belt, would you really suggest that they are christ like ? yet look at all the unconditional followers they have that totally forgot that the message of jesus and the good news he preached had nothing to do with solving or mitigating the world as we know it it simply is suppose to fail to prove that form the begining that adam and eve did not have the knowlege or the wisdom to to self rule and since then world has experimented with every form of govenment and the results were allways that you cant make everyone happy as some how the system was partial to one group or the other, in contrast with what jesus spoke about is relate to not even one sparrow being frogotten by god.

            I hope did not burn a hole in your head and set the mekneseh on fire 🙂

          7. And btw Mekenseh, moslems have a big problem too defining what it is to be a moslem and the clerics are also at fault for not clarifying loud and clear on fox news,cnn, friday prayer, at the street corner whether it is ok for moslem to blow up sunnis or shiate at the market, at the schools, at the bakery etc, so many horrid things taking place on moslem men, women and children in iraq,syria, egypt and may other places that beg the question,,,is this ok mr imam? mufti? ayatollah?

          8. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            In the Koran it says you can,
            Is the message of Mohamed eternal?

    2. Igor Chingoski Avatar
      Igor Chingoski

      Are You happy? Finally You being accepted :-))) But don’t get too exited, You are not allowed to wear Your TUTU in Church.

      1. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        @Hannibal Hey Fufu, don’t hide behind another name to spew your homophobia
        be a dog and bark with your own name

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          I am not Igor…
          I certainly do hope that Igor responds and tells us where he lives.

          Mekenseh YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!
          I never hid from anyone… I tell it as it is and I will never attack 5th as he is a friend. It seems that the attack was at 5th.

  2. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    Happy to see they quote him accurately. And yes, a most refreshing ‘leader’.

    1. MekensehParty Avatar
      MekensehParty

      Fresh thinking indeed
      It’s a step forward… with thousands of steps on the way to salvaging Catholicism, but a step forward nonetheless.
      Thank you Pope Francis, keep it up.

      1. Hannibal Avatar
        Hannibal

        Keep what up? Are you thinking what I’m thinking? Now that he does not judge?

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          You are nasty too … 😉

          1. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            See!
            now he’s calling the pope a homo just because of what he said.
            If God Himself asks Hannibal to stop being a homophobe, Hanni will tell God that He’s gay!
            lololol

          2. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Let’s see if ‘The Supreme’ can get better press after this trip. 😉

          3. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Although I never said anything against or for homosexuality which you erroneously accuse me of being a homophobe let me ask you this:
            If you do follow a religion, any religion, can you give me any line from religious books that condone homosexuality? Of course if you consider yourself an atheist or agnostic the question is moot. As I said before, I am neither against nor for the orientation. I mind my own business. I know also that gays cannot help it… It is not really a choice for them as if you choose between good or evil.
            I do however have a problem with gay marriage. I do support a legal union between them but not a marriage in the traditional meaning of it as Jesus said of marriage: “Have you not read that He who made them from the beginning made them male and female” speaking of marriage.

            If you continue, unfairly, accusing me of something I am not, that is your problem.

          4. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Jesus also allowed for men to marry 12 year old girls, or 10, or even 9 as long as she flowered. Is that a better marriage than a same-sex marriage?
            You say they “cannot help it”, I ask help what, and is help really required?
            You have made attacks against homosexuals, you use all associated words in a derogative way… I’m not inventing all this. I’m glad though that you are coming to your senses and a late mea culpa is better than no mea culpa at all. I’ll stop calling you a homophobe if you stop attacking homosexuals.
            Deal?

          5. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Aside from historical data on marrying-ages … which cultural event changed along with human longevity … and certain religious practices as well as laws having basically upped the minimum ages in most countries in accordance with knowledge and recognition of both male & female body-development needs … two guys calling each other ‘homo’ does not mean they are ‘homophobic’ in real life.
            (although … hmmmm … perhaps it’s a clever disguise …. ;-)))

          6. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            What I am saying is that they have no choice… I have friends who were married and had kids because that was the “norm” only to divorce their wives and go with a man. To me as a straight individual I cannot fathom the complexity of it all as I have been attracted to Brunettes since my early years. One may ask why not blondes? I can’t help it (and that is what I meant). Not that they need help. You my friend listen to answer not to understand and that is your problem.
            I may have had some jokes here and there but I never attacked homosexuals. I will be glad to review my comments if you find any.
            I am curious though as to your comment… Are you sure Jesus allowed men to marry 12 years old? Can you show me the reference or quote Him saying that? I really doubt it.

          7. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yah … I’m waiting for that quote too.
            And curiously, brunettes also always get my main attention. 😉

          8. Hannibal Avatar
            Hannibal

            Hmmmm am I talking to my competition? God I hope me wify does not read this… lol

          9. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            LOL …

          10. I hope my wife is not reading either! shhhh I am totally lesbian 🙂

          11. Hannibal Avatar

            Keep waiting… That dude is confused… ma 3erfeen wayn Allah 7aato.

          12. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            @5thDrawer:disqus Jesus did not say it’s ok to marry (and sleep with) what we consider today a child but it seems that he didn’t oppose it (He who seems to know all the answers forever and ever) simply not mentioning it or what he said about the subject was not repeated and one more possibility is that it has been erased… In any case, that was normal at the time, Mary is believed to be 14 when she delivered baby Jesus and this is exactly my point about the message of Jesus not being eternal or unchangeable. What was normal then is considered a crime today, if a child of 13 called Mary today tells her parent that she has been impregnated by a guy named Gabriel sent by God, we’ll put Gabriel and God in jail and call them pedophiles and the baby born from the hideous crime has little chance to spread the word of his (criminal) father. What used to apply before can not apply today. Marriage is not a Christian exclusive invention. Any two people can decide to call themselves married with or without the consent of the church, I don’t understand why Christians feel that it’s a direct attack on them or their traditions. What’s the big fuss? if two persons of the same sex want to call themselves a married couple – who are Christians to judge? and this is exactly what the Pope said.

          13. Hannibal Avatar

            You are offending millions of Christians making fun of their faith and that is ok… A forward thinker indeed uuuh more like a bigot?

          14. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Christians? what Christians? the ones like you?
            you’re not Christian! Christianity was born 2000 years ago, you’ve been on the tree for like a million years (and still there even if the Americans or Swiss called you a man).
            You have nothing to do with Christians, you’re an @$$hole remember?

          15. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            You know the problem here Mekenseh. None of us in here are ‘pure’ Theologians.
            We all relate those ‘religious thoughts’ to our real-life experience, and try to fit them in on the side, instead of living in the dream-land of ‘the book’; and just running around shooting anyone who disturbs the dream. :-)))
            God/Allah doesn’t blog. He’s too smart. ;-))))

          16. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I’m not claiming to know it all but I know for a fact that I live far from the “religious” utopia or the dream as you call it. I get itchy when self-proclaimed Christians want to bring me back to the herd of believers when they actually live so close to the fires of Satan that their pants are on fire.

          17. Hannibal Avatar

            confused as I said…

          18. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            That’s it … I’m out to look at ‘The Sun’. (packing flask along, of course.)

          19. Hannibal Avatar

            Use a lot of sun screen… The Sun was a god at one time.

          20. I just fell of the wagon too 5th, Mekenseh and Hannibal need to have a rodney king moment….”can we get along” 🙂

          21. Hannibal Avatar

            this is what you sound like:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BNbHBcnDI

            Mekenseh: Mine Mine Mine Mine Mine……
            As to the Swiss or Americans calling me a man… Really it does not matter because your mother did… Ask her.

          22. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            You mean one of my 2 fathers?
            nice

          23. Hannibal Avatar

            Remember two men do not reproduce… I curse the day I produced you 😉

          24. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I know why your tongue is so loose
            you kept pinching it down to lick your own dick

          25. Hannibal Avatar

            you have my tongue confused with yours… I told you I do not swing this way find another man.

          26. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            wow, great come back
            soon you’ll tell me “kell chi byerja3lak”

          27. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Now you’re being nice to Geo … 😉 Cute birds … :-))))

          28. Hannibal Avatar

            lol

          29. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yes Mekenseh … I agree .. when life expectancy for the general population was around 30, humans had to get it all in fast. 🙂 There ARE many things that were written of what Jesus and other prophets had said, which were left out of later ‘scripture’ versions due either to being ‘out-of-date’ in general thought and practice, or to not being suited to the politics of another era. (Ref: Nag Hammadi – Agnostic Gospels …. etc.) Translations probably affected a lot too.
            If we assume everything in the early Koran was ‘right’ to start with, we know it changed afterward only … and was added to immensely … and then got stuck.
            Which form of ‘changing thought’ is a worse thing to subject humans to?

          30. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            To reply about your insulting words and your homophobia, go back on this site to an article named geagea- Hezbollah -is- taking-lebanon-as-hostage and read and tell me if I’m right to call you a homophobe and a bully.
            Note that I simply asked you then to say you’re sorry for your insulting words to which you replied that you’ll never apologize because you’re a “Lebanese a$$hole”

          31. Hannibal Avatar

            I fail to see where is the link between what I said and homophobe?
            You have a serious argument problem… be7kiik bell chare2 betjeewib bell ghareb… hay2etak makhloul big time.
            Now being a bully if you attack Lebanon I have no problem with that… I will bully your ass from here until eternity… You seem to enjoy it (how is that for a homophobe for you?) Apologize this… leyk malla zeb aal he asks me to apologize miinak ya khara? ruu7 ndab. oooooh you are going to cry I’m bullying you? Well I am… and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

          32. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I wonder how close you are to the administrator of this site because I’ve seen bloggers getting kicked out for much less than that. I’ve had heated debates with many on this blog but few have a level as low as yours.
            You think you’re bullying me? hah, funny, you’re only showing what a degenerate pos you are for all to read.
            Keep talking and insulting people, who cares what a retard like you thinks…

          33. Hannibal Avatar

            I only attack when attacked or my country is attacked verbally or physically from inside or outside… You have a problem with that?
            Now go back and reread ALL the posts and see if I ever attacked you… You began to call me names and I simply fired back.
            Stay out of my way I will stay out of yours… Really simple for the simplest of mind like the one you have.

          34. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            GOD came to me and told me to keep attacking animals like you.
            I gave you two olive branches and you returned both with vile insults and since such vocab seems to be accepted on this site I have a thesaurus of insults for lesser organisms like you.
            Screw you and that jungle country of yours, garbage mountains and sewer parks from Akkar to Bint Jbeil and shit people living like dogs and controlled by a militia who has a boot on your necks, the same neck that was under the Syrian boot, the Palestinian boot, the French, the German, the Turk, the Arab and on and on and on.
            Wonder why they call you the people of the meshayet.
            Suck on that fufu

          35. Hannibal Avatar

            Same sex marriage does not exist. It is not natural. A marriage is between a man, A MAN, A MAN and a woman, A WOMAN, A WOMAN… You wanna call the other thingy a union so be it… But it is NOT a marriage.
            Just imagine A MAN calling his partner, another MAN, My Wife… He He Weird. A union between partners for legalese is more like it.

          36. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            Yah. I agree with you. But it’s more about keeping the definition of a word the same as far as I’m concerned. There should be a new word for ‘it’.
            Union is what it’s all about. Two people feeling good enough about each other can be life-partners and share the experience – without bothering anyone else, OR causing any unnatural bent in progeny either.

          37. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Not only are they going to get MARRIED and call each other wife, husband or hanibalisahomophobe but they’re going to live in the apartment on top and next to you, they will parade on the streets, kiss in the parks and your children and children’s children are going to play with their kids and some might even be attracted to the same sex too and you will hit your head on the wall for years and years but guess what you can’t do anything about it coz you ain’t living in shi!!y Lebanon here were the likes of you turned into what they are!
            ruminate on that little punk and if you don’t like it time to buy an airplane ticket and go back to the cave of Jeita that you should have never left!

      2. A step forward towards popularity with the masses and a long leap away from loud and clear scriptural view of the subject, thank him for What? diluting accurate knowledge to gain popularity by ducking the issue?

        true Christians were never popular in the beginning and were fed to lions because of their stand, practicing true Christianity would not be fashionable in todays culture either.

        1. MekensehParty Avatar
          MekensehParty

          Well you answered yourself to your own question, practicing “true” Christianity is not fashionable since “true” Christianity has been fixed in time some 2000 years ago and does not answer present issues. I thank him for moving away from these rigid scriptural views and bringing a new understanding or a new interpretation of these scriptures, most important among all is that the Pope, highest figure of the earthly kingdom of god, is no judge.
          By essence, a religion needs to be popular to spread and Catholicism has been on the defense for more than a century now simply because of unpopular scriptures. Should the Pope stick to these scriptures written centuries ago and see the churches emptying? Or should he wake up and recognize that the old messages no longer apply?
          Another quick point, if the Christians do not move away from obsolete scriptures, how can they ask Muslims to move away from obsolete scriptures?

          1. 5thDrawer Avatar
            5thDrawer

            By Laws which are secular and equal in nature, for ALL ‘believers’.

          2. Mekenseh, with all due respect and humility I have to say that you could not possibly believe or be familiar with all the things jesus said if you keep thinking that you can revise what defines the principles of a christian way of life.

            Imagine an owners manual for a hyundai being used to maintain a ferrari… the results would be a disaster! If the pope was a representative of god in any way he would have exacting answers specificaly relating and reiterating that the kingdom of god that jesus spoke about as the good news for all mankind!

            you can rewrite christianity all you want but you would only confirm what jesus said about false christianity in Matthew 24:4 Jesus says “look out that nobody misleads you for many will come on the basis on my name and mislead many”
            clearly he stated that those who mislead will be very successfull at misleading others into what defines a christian. the majority of christian people have never read he bible for themselves and are totally unfamiliar with the significance and relevance of what he said back then that absolutley applies to every thing today.

          3. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            Same here Geo, always a pleasure having a nice conversation.
            So are you saying that this is a marketing stunt and that the Pope has betrayed the true meaning of Christianity to keep his Mercedes?

          4. No pun intended Mekneseh, but who am I to judge…I mean it !

            I cant help but share a couple of points that are very relevant.
            misinformation or lies have been used to distance mankind from god from the beginning of time, there is a big difference between accurate and inaccurate knowlage, satan bamboozeled eve by telling her that the minute she ate from that tree she would become just like god. If you read the passage and see the works of the cautious and experienced snake

            you will recall Jimmy jones, david koresh, Marshall Applewhite and many curent jihadists promised a herd of virgins shortly after they judge and blow civilians to smitherines totally convinced by some carismatic religious leader to follow orders and the calling of a mission for god. since there is no shortage of falsEhood and motive we are wise and obligated to search and verify what the fruit is and what tree it is born from. I know talking religion sucks but I sometimes I cant stand by selling pop corn as I see the damage it has done rather than nourishing and uniting people to show favor to one another.

          5. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            I agree that there are a lot of “false” prophets and that many came in the name of God to spread their message only to turn into scammers eyeing the property of their followers. But let’s concentrate on the “real” prophets and since it’s about the Church we’re talking, on Jesus.
            Jesus came at a time where the Old Testament became unbearable for its lack of actuality. The OT’s principles and laws were simply obsolete or to remain politically correct inapplicable in the “modern” society of the first century. What Jesus did is to “reform” such principles and laws and DELETED some of these old divine laws to replace them with modern ones. Totally scrapping the eye for an eye divine law of the OT and replace it with “forgiveness” was a revolution by itself.
            The modern message of Christ, that perfectly applied to modern society at the time, crossed all borders and Christianity spread from one end of the “flat world” to the other. Civilizations based their laws and principles on it and the religion evolved and spread throughout the time.
            Today, while the essence of the message of Christ is still the engine pushing civilizations forward, some of his messages or the way they have been interpreted throughout the years, no longer apply.
            Don’t you think that, just like Jesus appeared to reform the OT and turn it into a modern book accepted by his contemporary and is the basis to build a future on (because that is indeed the strength of the message of Jesus – not only was his message modern in its time but it also applies to centuries or millennia to come) Christianity is in need of a person or persons to reinterpret this two thousand years old message?

          6. First Thanks for your reply, you already know that this is not a a 5 minute conversation lol, but I will share with you that I was born in lebanon to one of the christian faiths that neither administered spiritual milk or beef!

            basically besides common holidays and carbon copy sunday sermons that would put anyone in a coma with no answers whatsoever about life, death. politcs, civil war etc, it is only when you get away from the herd and have your own mind to deliberate the search for bible truth and not traditional passed on feel good christianity that you realize that it is contrary to everything jesus taught that we should believe that we can fix this world by adapting and revising biblical principals!

            when jesus was being asked a trick question as to what commandment is the most important one was, his reply was to love your neighbour as you love your self…it is not a law but a principle that would automatically make for a perfect world, not based on color, race,flag. ethinicity but that jesus himself chose it over any other answer he could have chose….ask your self do self professing christians today apply that principle with each other on daily basis?

            The whole significance of jesus dying as a perfect man was to undo what another perfect men introduced to his offspring! if you owed $100.000 in taxes and I decided to intervene and pay to relieve you form that debt 100,000 pesos would not do the trick, would it? it would have to be in dollar currency to make it go away!

            many people miss the fact that jesus return would not be physical but a spiritual one as a king over paradise like conditions that have nothing to do with the world as it is today, the good news he spoke about and demonstrations of raising dead, healing blind was a display of his capabilities and things to come but only after we all realize that eve and adam were wrong, WE CAN NOT self rule, we are not qualified as we are too biased,imperfect and corrupt! look at all the so called christian leaders today and all the questionable things they have under their belt, would you really suggest that they are christ like ? yet look at all the unconditional followers they have that totally forgot that the message of jesus and the good news he preached had nothing to do with solving or mitigating the world as we know it it simply is suppose to fail to prove that form the begining that adam and eve did not have the knowlege or the wisdom to to self rule and since then world has experimented with every form of govenment and the results were allways that you cant make everyone happy as some how the system was partial to one group or the other, in contrast with what jesus spoke about is relate to not even one sparrow being frogotten by god.

            I hope did not burn a hole in your head and set the mekneseh on fire 🙂

          7. And btw Mekenseh, moslems have a big problem too defining what it is to be a moslem and the clerics are also at fault for not clarifying loud and clear on fox news,cnn, friday prayer, at the street corner whether it is ok for moslem to blow up sunnis or shiate at the market, at the schools, at the bakery etc, so many horrid things taking place on moslem men, women and children in iraq,syria, egypt and may other places that beg the question,,,is this ok mr imam? mufti? ayatollah?

          8. MekensehParty Avatar
            MekensehParty

            In the Koran it says you can,
            Is the message of Mohamed eternal?

    2. Igor Chingoski Avatar
      Igor Chingoski

      Are You happy? Finally You being accepted :-))) But don’t get too exited, You are not allowed to wear Your TUTU in Church.

      1. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        @Hannibal Hey Fufu, don’t hide behind another name to spew your homophobia
        be a dog and bark with your own name

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          I am not Igor…
          I certainly do hope that Igor responds and tells us where he lives.

          Mekenseh YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!
          I never hid from anyone… I tell it as it is and I will never attack 5th as he is a friend. It seems that the attack was at 5th.

  3. MekensehParty Avatar
    MekensehParty

    Hannibal just converted to Islam

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Hohohohohoho … nasty. 😉 But I think Hannibal will like this guy.

      In this line we see the drivel of reporters … who ascribe things to ‘people on high’.
      “at times leaning on the back of an airplane seat as if he were just another passenger.”
      Well, ISN’T HE ?? A Human? Just like the rest of us? You expect him to be stiff and pious in ‘form’ like a wistful painting standing on a damn airplane for 80 minutes talking to a bunch of fatheads?? Maybe that’s been the problem with other Popes AND other Leaders at various times in history … trying to look like what they are not and what they think ‘the people’ want them to be — more-than-human.
      The only difference is what’s inside a head, and what makes the ‘character’.

      1. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        It’s a historic sentence I think “Who am I to judge?”
        Finally the highest religious figure recognizes his simple humanity as you perfectly pointed out. The ex-Pope resignation was also a sign of de-divinization of the figure of the Pope (assigned by God!!!).
        That’s the question I think today: can the Church reinvent itself by steps in the right direction like these?
        If the Pope was on this blog I’d give him a like

  4. MekensehParty Avatar
    MekensehParty

    Hannibal just converted to Islam

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      Hohohohohoho … nasty. 😉 But I think Hannibal will like this guy.

      In this line we see the drivel of reporters … who ascribe things to ‘people on high’.
      “at times leaning on the back of an airplane seat as if he were just another passenger.”
      Well, ISN’T HE ?? A Human? Just like the rest of us? You expect him to be stiff and pious in ‘form’ like a wistful painting standing on a damn airplane for 80 minutes talking to a bunch of fatheads?? Maybe that’s been the problem with other Popes AND other Leaders at various times in history … trying to look like what they are not and what they think ‘the people’ want them to be — more-than-human.
      The only difference is what’s inside a head, and what makes the ‘character’.

      1. MekensehParty Avatar
        MekensehParty

        It’s a historic sentence I think “Who am I to judge?”
        Finally the highest religious figure recognizes his simple humanity as you perfectly pointed out. The ex-Pope resignation was also a sign of de-divinization of the figure of the Pope (assigned by God!!!).
        That’s the question I think today: can the Church reinvent itself by steps in the right direction like these?
        If the Pope was on this blog I’d give him a like

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