Sabra-Shatila Massacre, remembered 30 years later

The Sabra-Shatila Massacre—it seems like a dozen weeks, not 30 years ago. This year, American citizens received messages to stay away from Beirut and the annual commemoration of the Israeli facilitated massacre at Sabra-Shatila from their State Department and Beirut Embassy. The latter’s staff on September 19 completed destroying sensitive documents and packing all non-essential items.  The French government, too, told its citizens not to come to Beirut or participate in “mass gatherings because of concerns over sudden random violence”.

But they came.  Despite the well-meaning admonitions from their governments, they came in numbers greater than ever before. They came to bear witness with the survivors and their families to the horror of this crime against Palestinians and to plead for justice.

One elderly lady from Haifa, Palestine, said bitterly, as foreign delegations paid their respects at Shatila’s Martyr’s cemetery, “At least God is punishing Sharon!”  She was referring to the coma the architect of the massacre went into six years ago, who is being sustained in a vegetative mass at the cost of $400,000 annually, partly paid for by American taxpayers.  She lamented that not one person has ever been arrested, tried, or convicted, and Israel has refused to open its file on the events surrounding the slaughter. Nor has the American government ever demanded that Israel do so. The Lebanese government has never even investigated the massacre as a crime.

Authors, photo-chroniclers, and historians of the 1982 massacre, Mya Shone and Ralph Schoenman, replied to a recent New York Times article on the massacre by reminding us this week that “Ha’aretz recounted on September 26, 1982 the high level planning that preceded the invasion in service to ‘the long term objective aimed at the expulsion of the whole Palestinian population of Lebanon beginning with Beirut.’”  Shone and Schoenman remind us that the London Sunday Times reported on the same day: “This carefully pre-planned military operation (to send Israeli selected militia into Shatila while the IDF sealed the camp to prevent possible escape) to ‘purge’ the camps was called Moah Barzel (Iron Brain); the plan was familiar to Sharon and Begin and was part of Sharon’s larger plan discussed by the Israeli cabinet on July 17.”

Each year, local or regional events impact the annual Shatila commemoration events differently. This year, during some of the five days of events that took foreign visitors to Palestinian camps—including Shatila and Mar Elias camps in Beirut, Burj Shemali and Al-Buss camps in the south, and up north to Nahr al Bared (Cold River), which was destroyed by the Lebanese army in 2007 during the Fateh al Islam events—there were discussions at meetings and on the buses of the arrival back into Shatila camp and the other 11 camps of approximately 10,000 Palestinian refugees from Syria. They are being received as honored guests by fellow Palestinians but they urgently need help.

Arriving refugees tell of how there are some splits in their community over the Syrian chaos, the same as in the Shia, Sunni, Christian, and Druze communities. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC), which was ejected five weeks ago from Yarmouk camp by other Palestinians,  is claiming that Palestinians who do not endorse President Assad 100 percent are with Al Qaeda and the FSA (Free Syrian Army).  On the other hand, the FSA claim that Palestinians who refuse to join them are with Ahmad Jabril, the PFLP-GC leader. Yamouk camp residents pay the price from both sides. Most Palestinians want nothing to do with the politics of the Syrian crisis but only to live in peace.

Most of those who were recently forced out of Yarmouk camp in Damascus and back into Shatila had never visited the locus of the slaughter they miraculously survived 30 years ago. Some expressed deep emotions on returning and observing parts of the camp that remain much the same as they were following the nearly 50 hours of butchery between September 16-18, 1982.

One gentleman from Yarmouk camp,  a Christian, who in 1976 was driven out of Tel A Zaatar Palestinian camp as it was destroyed by Christian militia, and who was living in Shatila at the time of the 1982 massacre, expressed his shock of how the current residents are living at such low heath, nutrition, and social-economic standards.  He expressed surprise to a visiting American delegation at finding no right to work or ability to own a home. Both of which, he explained, plus many more rights are enjoyed by Palestinian refugees in Syria. All the Palestinian refugees arriving from Syria, who were interviewed by this observer, found conditions in Shatila to be much worse today than at the time of the massacre, 30 years ago.

Most of the Palestinians arriving from Syria are temporarily staying with friends or relatives in Lebanon’s 12 camps. 500 families are temporarily lodged in Saida, 30 miles south of Beirut, with 350 families sardine-canned in Ein el Helwe camp, already extremely densely populated with approximately 20,000 refugees. Roughly 500 Palestinian families, refugees once more, are housed temporarily in the Bekaa valley bordering Syria, including 250 families staying at Jilil (Wavell) camp. Scores or other Syrian Palestinian refugees are being housed in Bedawi camp near Tripoli. A major problem in all the camps is that the severe overcrowding and limited water and electricity are creating extended family tensions.

To date not much organized aid has been distributed.  UNWRA is still in the process of making lists of the arriving refugees from Syria, reminding one of the time it took for that UN agency to access the needs of the Nahr al Bared displaced refugees in 2007. The UNCHR, the United Nations Refugee Agency, whose mandate does not include Palestinians, is also studying the problem.

But the need for aid is now and urgent. Meeting with individuals on September 20 from the Palestinian camp committees and the local and international NGO community, three urgent needs were identified facing the refugees from Syria, whose numbers swell following each Palestinian killed in Syria.  On September 19, 18 more Palestinians were killed and so the numbers coming to Lebanon will swell over the next few days.

Among the three most urgent problems facing the arriving Palestinians from Syria are Social problems ranging from finding places to live, food, education and preventing youth from joining local Lebanese militia who offer $100 per day to Palestinian youth to work as hired guns. A few do fight on both sides of the Syrian conflict while their mothers and fathers are urging them to ‘stay off the streets.”

UNWRA has the capacity to help with elementary and secondary schooling in its 52 schools in Lebanon. Hoda al Turki, the hard working spokesperson for UNWRA in Lebanon has been worried about the difference in curriculum in UNWRA schools in Lebanon and Syria schools where Palestinians are educated. UNWRA does not operate schools in Syria. But the afternoon of September 20, a solution was announced and a curriculum has been agreed on. One of the problems was that Syrian schools teach the Nakba and Palestinian history but UNWRA schools are forbidden to teach anything about Palestine lest its funding be cut by the US government under pressure from the Zionist lobby.

So far the medical needs of the arriving refugees are being met at UNWRA facilities.

Some are proposing housing the refugees in schools, as was done following the Nahr al Bared fighting, but the schools are needed for classes.

One very important Lebanese governmental humanitarian gesture was announced on September 20, and it is that Lebanese General Security, in charge of visa and immigration matters, has waived all fees for arriving and departing Palestinian refugees.  Permission to remain, previously granted for only 7 days, will be granted indefinitely without Kafkaesque applications and interview processes. This is a major boon for the refugees since they have been ruthlessly exploited on both sides of Maznaa Lebanon-Syria border crossing, with demands for bribes and per head “transit fees” which quickly stripped many families of the limited cash they had.

One example: While trying to cross into Lebanon two weeks ago, Um Ahmad was confronted by a security guard who barked:  “if there is no phone number in Lebanon you need to go back to where you came from in Syria”. She replied to the security officer, “Sir, you should show us some mercy please.  You know that we are running away from war, we are not here on a vacation.”  He replied coldly: “no phone number, no entry!” A request for a bribe was delivered.

The government of Lebanon deserves praise for its humanitarian action. Hopefully the Syrian government will follow suit and facilitate the departure and hopeful return of Palestinian refugees.

The main economic problem is that the arriving refugees, like all Palestinians in Lebanon will not be allowed to work.

The third problem is with security issues.  Lebanon has announced that it cannot absorb more refugees. Yet the figure of 10,000 more expected Palestinians may easily double. For Palestinians who have been in Lebanon since 1948, many are reaching their limits of tolerance of the conditions they are forced to live in without elementary civil rights.

There is general agreement here that while ‘photo-op’ one time NGO aid distributions help and are much appreciated, the way they tend to be unorganized so far is resulting in refugee families being herded like cattle from place to place to receive various forms of limited aid and they are being stripped of their dignity.  Sometimes refugees are forced to sit in the sun until the TV crews arranged by the donors arrive to film this “act of charity in solidarity with the Palestinian people.”

To its credit, Hezbollah has been helping some. The Syrian refugees whether Sunni, Christian or Druze have received some aid from a center near Saida.  Hezbollah Social Work Committee member Alhaji Mohammed al-Haj said Hezbollah was assisting our “Syrian brothers as part of the duty to return the favor for what they did for us in the July war and out of a moral and national obligation of the resistance.”

What is required without further delay is for an urgent stakeholders meeting to be convened. Including the PLO factions, local and international NGO’s,  Donors, the Palestine Red Crescent Society, UNRWA, EU and UN groups as well as local political parties in order quickly produce an executable plan  avoiding duplications, to address these needs.

Shatila camp residents, on this 30th anniversary of one of their darkest hours, are planning to lead this call with a unified, strong, sustained Palestinian voice to help their sisters and brothers from Syria.

Foreign Policy Journal

  • Hannibal

    Although it was planned by the Israelis bringing in thousands of angry militiamen right after their leader was assassinated, this will remain the biggest dark spot in our nation’s conscience. The sad part is that we never learn from the past and some idiot is still repeating the same massacres in Syria. Kids SHOULD ALWAYS BE SPARED the sins of their parents.

    • salafiFalafil

      this is not one tenth of what the falastizis did to damour; not citing the rest of the massacres as well as when yasser arafart said that the road to palestine passes by jounieh; they massacred our children yet like cry babies they start to cry when one hundreth of their crimes was given back; do not misunderstand me: i do not defend any massacre however, we as lebanese should remember the martyrs of damour, jiyyeh, shouf, the south and iklim ……..that the palestinians & their consort comitted; only shiites never comitted any crime against us. Mind you we are the only stupid people who accepted them as refugees in this camel riding middle east; the same stupid people now wanting to fight hizbollah. As a refresher: king hussayn of Jordan, Hussayn al hashemi i.e. min soulalat al nabi, massacred them with napalm bombs and more than 75000 of them were barbequeued. Did they forget this? Doesnt the arabic wisdom say: wa zoulmou zawi al kourbatou ashaddou madadatin 3ala al qualbi min wak3i al souyoufi al mounaddadi?

    • salafiFalafil

      this is not one tenth of what the falastizis did to damour; not citing the rest of the massacres as well as when yasser arafart said that the road to palestine passes by jounieh; they massacred our children yet like cry babies they start to cry when one hundreth of their crimes was given back; do not misunderstand me: i do not defend any massacre however, we as lebanese should remember the martyrs of damour, jiyyeh, shouf, the south and iklim ……..that the palestinians & their consort comitted; only shiites never comitted any crime against us. Mind you we are the only stupid people who accepted them as refugees in this camel riding middle east; the same stupid people now wanting to fight hizbollah. As a refresher: king hussayn of Jordan, Hussayn al hashemi i.e. min soulalat al nabi, massacred them with napalm bombs and more than 75000 of them were barbequeued. Did they forget this? Doesnt the arabic wisdom say: wa zoulmou zawi al kourbatou ashaddou madadatin 3ala al qualbi min wak3i al souyoufi al mounaddadi?

    • Prophettttt

      Hannibal,
      I totally agree with you that “kids SHOULD ALWAYS BE SPARED the sins of their parents”. But not too long ago, you justified the massacre of Tel Azaatar by stating the following:”One more thing tell el zaatar is Lebanese territory and on top of it it is Maronite Church property and we want the waqef back… It belongs to us and we want it back… Simple…
      We may have let them in as guests and now we want them out back to filthy Palestine and if you like Palestine so much with your… “.These were your exact words.
      Some consistency, please Hannibal. I assume you would say that it was the work of “some angry militiamen”after some leader was killed too.Do these militiamen have an identity? I know that you know who these men were.
      Do others have to be murdered because “some leader” was assassinated? Does that justify Jumblat’s men murdering hundreds of Christians,and destroying their homes because, the Syrians assassinated his father?Is there any leader in the history of Lebanon whose life-or assassination- is worth the lives of hundreds or thousands of innocent people? I think not.
      I know you’d bring back the war of the camps(harb almoukhyamat),and this was ONE(of many) more reason I hated Amal and its corrupt leader. A murderer is a murderer, whether He is a shia,maronite,druze or what have you.If we ever want to learn from the past, we need to be honest and stop being in denial about our past.We need to admit the truth as it was,and then learn to move on. We can’t be stubborn and justify this massacre and condemn that massacre. We can’t have a selective memory.We can’t defend what suits us only. I think healing is much much harder than killing,but people have to want to heal,and then start by admitting mistakes done by themselves and others,and not by being defensive when they should not be.
      I only say these things because I think you have so much anger inside of you, just like the majority of Lebanese people,but anger can only make things worse.

      • Hannibal

        Ask any Lebanese Prophet and you will see that for one reason or another nobody wants the Palestinians in Lebanon. That being said in Tell el zaatar they were armed to the teeth and were shooting daily their anti-aircraft weapons at Ashrafieh…. daily… killing at random (as you know you can NEVER aim that thing) Lebanese civilians… daily. I remember kids and women crying screaming of the terror that thing caused. It penetrated cement and houses killing whatever in its path… What to do? Sit down in pray? Come on… War is war… BUT it does not justify killing innocent civilians and specially children. Atrocities were committed but even disciplined armies if left without officers will do the unthinkable so what do you think will happen when you have militiamen? I was there and tried my best to stop the craziness. I prayed for the red cross to show up. I protected the civilians at my own peril. I was threatened and had guns pointed at my head for trying to stop some crazy bloodthirsty psychopath… It was right after Sabra and Shatila that I decided to quit and left Lebanon. I went back every now and then to find another generation thinking the same way and some itching for a fight.
        Now let me ask you something and be honest… Do you believe that if the Palestinians in Lebanon side with the Syrian uprising and start firing at the Shiites, Hezbollah will sit it out and let it be? Or will they suppress fire with fire?
        You know this is a big possibility as the camps in Syria and their leaderships are defecting and siding with the Sunni uprising.

        • Prophettttt

          Hannibal, As I have said many times at this forum, the Palestinians have always been their own enemies. Ever since they were forced out of their land, they have made the same mistakes of injecting themselves in battles and conflicts in countries of which have hosted them, to end up losing the support of the people who have hosted them. They did it in Lebanon, Jordan, and possibly now in Syria.
          I don’t think the Palestinians who live in Lebanon, and Syria should even consider having weapons to begin with. Their military role has ended once their leaderships agreed to what they call “peace process” As of the possibility of Palestinian refugee living at the camps, siding with what you called ‘Sunni uprising”, that would also be a mistake because it was not the “Sunni Syria” that supported them all these years, it was Syria, with its entire people. It was not the “Sunni whatever” that supported them and armed them in Gaza, was it? I wish the Arabs, Sunnis and Shia and Christians all support and finance the Palestinians, but as we all know it was Iran that armed them. So they should stay out of the Syrian conflict altogether.
          You keep using your sectarian terms as if all Sunnis are revolting in Syria, when you and I know that the greatest majority of the so called Syrian opposition fighters are foreign fanatics, and jihadists who are being financed and imported by the freedom lovers and democracy idols of the Gulf States and the Turks, and NATO. Aside of what you and I think of the Syrian regime, the majority of the Syrian army is Sunnis, yet the army seems to stay intact for the most part. As far as I know, the opposition to the regime is made up from Syrians from all sects, not only Sunnis.
          If the “free Syrian army” is being run by the likes of Oqab Saqr, then we know that they cannot win any battle, not to mention overthrowing the regime.
          As for as your scenario of Palestinians siding with the Syrian fanatics ,and shooting at Shia ,it is possible that some will inject some “Taliban jihadists” to blow up themselves to create such a scenario, but I very much doubt that a Shia /Sunni war will take place in Lebanon. I expect possible mini incidents here and there, but nothing more.
          And you are right, all Lebanese agree on not wanting the Palestinians in Lebanon but some wanted them killed, and others want them to return to their country, with dignity.

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          the fact that you color your hair doesnt make you an european

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          you are such an arab… and there is nothing you can do about it..

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          hahaha so i am a product of mut3a which you consider as prostitution? hey you are the one who’s bragging about that you are 1% this and 1% that which makes your ancestors look like the biggest whores in history.. but i dont judge ya!!! arabs are like that…

      • Mahdi Kenaani

        you stated below that palestinians have been their own enemies. doesnt it apply to all arabs? I mean look at this arab hannibal. he for one hates the palestinians more than everything..

        • Hannibal

          First, I am not Arab. I am Lebanese, Maroon hair and blue eyes, and genetically European.
          Second, I do not hate anybody… My political views differ and my war was with the PLO not the Palestinians. Hamas for instance never fired a shot at us Lebanese so I have no problems with them.
          Third, I do not like your condescending tone… If you want an opponent I will be one, and if you seek an enemy in me I will oblige and you won’t like it. Choose.
          P.S. Give me ONE reason to believe you are Canaanite. Have you run your blood for DNA testing? If so what were the results?
          Finally, enimies is spelled enemies… That is a freebie 😛

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          to hannibal

          first. you have always been an arab.
          second. you are an arab.
          third. you are still an arab.
          fourth. you will always be an arab.

          no matter what your genes tell you.

          i neither wanna be your friend nor your enEmy.. why cant we just be frenemies?

        • Hannibal

          You can say it all you like… My complexion says otherwise. If you see me you will never guess I am Arabic, Middle Eastern or Lebanese… When I tell people I am Lebanese they say no way. So say it all you want and climb on your Arabian horse and scream at the top of your lungs the fact remains that genetically I belong to the European race and exactly British. Believe me I had hoped to be a J2 Canaanite but the study said otherwise and I had to accept it as I would have accepted it if I were to be a J1 Arab.
          I am not saying this to deny the Arabic nature of some of the Lebanese as there are many, 30% to be exact. So say it all you like my frenemy I will remain a Lebanese of a European descent and you of an unknown origin.
          If you like to find out if you are a Canaanite go to National Geographic and buy the kit. It is only $99. Don’t be cheap. Send your swab in (It does not hurt just in case you’re a wimp) and let us see the results… Who knows you may get lucky and find out you are a brother of mine whose ancestors were British as well… Then we, hand in hand, can put our differences together, go and drink Johnny Walker Scotch, and raise an alcoholic toast to the wahabis… 

        • Hannibal

          The fact that you call yourself a mahdi actually proves you are a lunatic… As it is blasphemy to begin with even for the Shia heretic religion.
          The fact that you call yourself Kenaani does not make you a Canaanite… As a matter of fact I know you are a confused ARAB dressed in a Persian rug believing you are better than your Arab brothers… 
          What you do not know is that your Arab blood shows the minute you adopt Shia Islam as your religion and practice satanism in the shadows. BUT we see who you are even when hiding behind your Persian finger you show your Arab identity. A7maq bell khatt el 3ariid. Your prologues and proses and blogs and posts ring the sound of a Persian koss-sher… I am sure you know what it is.

        • Hannibal

          Beside being a racist you are above all the product of mout3a… Mout3a is a technology of reproducing like rats invented in Arabia… It is a concealed prostitution ring for frustrated Arabs who do not want to commit. 

        • Hannibal

          When a kid keyboard warrior runs out of words she repeats herself like a parrot… An Arab parrot with a towel on her head that is. Growing not knowing who her dad was for sperm mixing in a mout3a ring she becomes frustrated and spew her hatred against the many Arab dads who did her mom… I pity you. Did you ever try psychiatry? I hear that it works on confused kids. May be you learned your lesson and won’t open your legs to more than one man so your offsprings won’t come out as confused as you are.

    • Prophettttt

      Hannibal; You say that you are not an Arab, but a Lebanese with blue eyes and Maroon Hair, which makes you European. At the same time, you say that you are a Maronite Christian. You have the right to identify yourself as you wish, but that does not settle the historical facts about the origin of Lebanese,or the Maronites.
      You’d agree with me that Christianity originated in the Middle East rather than Europe, You’d also agree that St. Maron is originally Aramaic christian, who came from Syria with a group of monks and settled in the mountains of Lebanon, and eventually converted people around him. Are we to believe that everyone who was converted was a non-Arab? Can one make the assumption that the Maronites are Syrian instead of Lebanese?
      (On a separate note, the Syrian interference in Lebanon started back then. lol)
      If one is to believe that Maronites who came from Syria, and settled in the mountains of Lebanon only married among themselves? Are we to believe that the medieval tony and Charlie’s ,who came from Syria,only married medieval maries and Georgettes, and therefore produced little Tonys and pierres who were pure Maronites? Where did the European blue eyes and Marron hair came from? If that was true, then The Maronites are a separate race or a separate ethnic group. What about the converts and their off springs? What are they? Are they Pure Maronites, Aramic, or Syrians? Is there anything pure anymore? Don’t you think that everyone in the region is really a mud? Are we to believe that every blond hair and blue eyes person in the Arab world is not an Arab? My own daughter will fool you with her sharp blue eyes and features of being Scandinavian. Some of my extended family members have similar features, yet our family is originated in Meka, and we’re decedent of Hussein. Does that make me a non-Lebanese? I can tell you of a certain village, on top of a hill in the south, whose population is mostly blonds and blue eyes with very Slavic features, yet they are Muslims, Lebanese, and Arab. Yes we always teased them that foreign troops used to settle mountains and things could get hot at times.
      I’m not making any assumption about you and your ancestors, but these are legitimate questions anyone can ask. If you think you’re not an Arab, I don’t want you to be one, nor do I care. But you can’t claim to be Lebanese as if “Lebanese” is a different race or ethnic group, yet tell us that your ancestors are European.

      • Hannibal

        The Maronites came from what was Byzantium… They were monks… They converted a lot of the dwellers of what is Modern Syria and Lebanon to Christianity… The Crusades came later and after they were defeated by the army of Salaahudiin they held onto Tyre, Sidon, Tripoli and Aker for a long time but lost interest and a lot went back to Europe specially the people with titles (Earls, counts etc…) The poor and the people who married into the land ended up melting into the populace. 
        That being said I really NEVER understand why you are mixing she3baan be ramadaan… I never said that the Maronites were European… I said that genetic studies in Lebanon proved that the third of the Maronites (usually those dwelling in the seaports) are of J2 haplotype and of Aramaic ancestry the other third is J1 Arabs and the rest are of European ancestry… There are NO sects in Lebanon that proved to be of one race. That is a reflection of our history. 
        My best friend who is a Shia is European while her dad’s Y chromosome is a J1 Arab. Obviously he passed his X chromosome to his daughter therefore being half Arab and half European. There is no pure race except probably in Arabia proper. It is a third/third/third distribution of European, Aramaic, Arabic races intermixed in Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria distributed equally amongst sects except amongst J1 Arabs who are of a slight Sunni majority. It is indeed slight.
        I have no interest in this discussion as I am certain 100% of what I am saying from scientific articles which I can email you and a book that my dad wrote, a history book that is online. I did a comparative study and found out that no sect really can claim purity of race… I never claimed that Lebanese is a different race but I do not want to be excluded from being Lebanese by the ones claiming that Lebanon is purely and Arab country… That is why for the sake of inclusivity I say Lebanese are Lebanese. Honestly it is really a simple concept. I do not see where I failed to explain all of that.

        • Prophettttt

          Correct me if I’m wrong.They came from Syria regardless of the fact that Syria was under byzantine rule. Syria was mostly Christians  before byzantine.As of their origin,there is a big debate on whether they were originally Arabs or not.
          According to Kamal Salibi, who is a well known scholars of Maronites and Lebanese history,They were Arabs before they even came to Lebanon. Here what He says:“While the Maronites have traditionally used Syriac for their liturgy, they appear to have been Arab rather than Aramaeo-Arab in ethnic origin; their ecclesiastical and secular literature, as known directly or from reference from as early as the 10th century A.D., is entirely in Arabic. Their ethnic difference from other Syrian Christians, who were mainly Aramaean or Aramaeo-Arab, might explain in part why they came to be organised as a separate church. The claim of the community to be descended from the Mardaites, first advanced by the Patriarch Istifan al-Duwayhi (1668-1704), is historically incredible.”
          My whole point was that the Christians of the middle east are some Arabs ,and some Aramaic and Coptic. I AGREE with you that every sect has been mixed up over the centuries,and there is no purity .But the Maronite ,in particular, seem to have more Arab origin than most Christians of the middle east. This is something many Maronite reject,and insist on their Lebanese origin. Not that I personally care, but it is a debate that can not be avoided. No one is excluding you from being Lebanese, because being Lebanese is a national identity regardless of where all of us originated. I won’t trade it with any other national identity myself,but there is no denial of the Arab  influence in all of our origin as a nation.You have stated the following:”I belong to the European race and exactly British”. ,this is exactly what I opened this discussion.
          If you really had no interest in this discussion, you should have never replied,and I would have understood. I assure you that this is a purely historical discussion,and I don’t care if you think of yourself as British ,Yemenite,or Mozambique.
          You’re more than welcome to email  me this article.
          theprophettttt@yahoo.com

      • Hannibal

        You are wrong… Those history books were written before the genetic studies were done… DNA does not lie. I believe in Science and history supported by science.
        Here is the article:
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2427286/
        Please do pay attention to Figure 2:
        In particular the R2b haplotype (European) at the end of the graph to which I belong.
        As far as where the Maronites came from they never came from anywhere they were in Lebanon but adopted that religion which originated in Syria. Being a christian in the U.S. does not make a person a Palestinian where Christianity started.

        • Prophettttt

          Thanks for the article, This reminds me of college years where you had home work to do,but at least here I have no deadline.I will take my time,and try to absorb all this material. 
          I do need to correct you ,and at the same time, clarify my own comment which you seem to misinterpret  First, I never meant to imply that all Maronites came from Syria . I meant that St.Maron,and the monks and others(Curious to know if you know any numbers) who started this Maronite church had came from Syria,and they were Syrians. No one is doubting the Lebanese identity of the Maronite,but you can’t say that they were in Lebanon either.Yes those who adopted the Maronite sect were indeed Lebanese and those who brought the teachings of the sect came from Syria,and became Lebanese.

        • 5thDrawer

          Yes, interesting. And shows ONE kind of uniqueness of Lebanon by the conclusion. 1300 years of living in segregated little intolerant societies. 🙁

  • Hannibal

    Although it was planned by the Israelis bringing in thousands of angry militiamen right after their leader was assassinated, this will remain the biggest dark spot in our nation’s conscience. The sad part is that we never learn from the past and some idiot is still repeating the same massacres in Syria. Kids SHOULD ALWAYS BE SPARED the sins of their parents.

    • salafiFalafil

      this is not one tenth of what the falastizis did to damour; not citing the rest of the massacres as well as when yasser arafart said that the road to palestine passes by jounieh; they massacred our children yet like cry babies they start to cry when one hundreth of their crimes was given back; do not misunderstand me: i do not defend any massacre however, we as lebanese should remember the martyrs of damour, jiyyeh, shouf, the south and iklim ……..that the palestinians & their consort comitted; only shiites never comitted any crime against us. Mind you we are the only stupid people who accepted them as refugees in this camel riding middle east; the same stupid people now wanting to fight hizbollah. As a refresher: king hussayn of Jordan, Hussayn al hashemi i.e. min soulalat al nabi, massacred them with napalm bombs and more than 75000 of them were barbequeued. Did they forget this? Doesnt the arabic wisdom say: wa zoulmou zawi al kourbatou ashaddou madadatin 3ala al qualbi min wak3i al souyoufi al mounaddadi?

    • Prophettttt

      Hannibal,
      I totally agree with you that “kids SHOULD ALWAYS BE SPARED the sins of their parents”. But not too long ago, you justified the massacre of Tel Azaatar by stating the following:”One more thing tell el zaatar is Lebanese territory and on top of it it is Maronite Church property and we want the waqef back… It belongs to us and we want it back… Simple…
      We may have let them in as guests and now we want them out back to filthy Palestine and if you like Palestine so much with your “.These were your exact words.Some consistency please.I assume you would say that it was the work of “some angry militiamen”after some leader was killed too.Do these militiamen have an identity? do others have to be murdered because “some “leader was assassinated? Does that justify Jumblat’s men murdering hundreds of Christians,and destroying their homes because, the Syrians assassinated his father?I know you’d bring back the war of the camps(harb almoukhyamat),and this was ONE more reason I hated Amal and its corrupt leader. 

      • Hannibal

        Ask any Lebanese Prophet and you will see that for one reason or another nobody wants the Palestinians in Lebanon. That being said in Tell el zaatar they were armed to the teeth and were shooting daily their anti-aircraft weapons at Ashrafieh…. daily… killing at random (as you know you can NEVER aim that thing) Lebanese civilians… daily. I remember kids and women crying screaming of the terror that thing caused. It penetrated cement and houses killing whatever in its path… What to do? Sit down in pray? Come on… War is war… BUT it does not justify killing innocent civilians and specially children. Atrocities were committed but even disciplined armies if left without officers will do the unthinkable so what do you think will happen when you have militiamen? I was there and tried my best to stop the craziness. I prayed for the red cross to show up. I protected the civilians at my own peril. I was threatened and had guns pointed at my head for trying to stop some crazy bloodthirsty psychopath… It was right after Sabra and Shatila that I decided to quit and left Lebanon. I went back every now and then to find another generation thinking the same way and some itching for a fight.
        Now let me ask you something and be honest… Do you believe that if the Palestinians in Lebanon side with the Syrian uprising and start firing at the Shiites, Hezbollah will sit it out and let it be? Or will they suppress fire with fire?
        You know this is a big possibility as the camps in Syria and their leaderships are defecting and siding with the Sunni uprising.

        • Prophettttt

          As I have said many times, the Palestinians have always been their own enemies. Ever since they were forced out of their land, they have made the same mistakes of injecting themselves in battles and conflicts in countries of which have hosted them, to end up losing the support of the people who have hosted them. They did it in Lebanon, Jordan, and possibly now in Syria.
          I don’t think the Palestinians who live in Lebanon, and Syria should even consider having weapons to begin with. Their military role has ended once their leaderships agreed to what they call “peace process” As of the possibility of Palestinian refugee living at the camps, siding with what you called ‘Sunni uprising”, that would also be a mistake because it was not the “Sunni Syria” that supported them all these years, it was Syria, with its entire people. It was not the “Sunni whatever” that supported them and armed them in Gaza, was it? I wish the Arabs, Sunnis and Shia and Christians all support and finance the Palestinians, but as we all know it was Iran that armed them. So they should stay out of the Syrian conflict altogether.
          You keep using your sectarian terms as if all Sunnis are revolting in Syria, when you and I know that the greatest majority of the so called Syrian opposition fighters are foreign fanatics, and jihadists who are being financed and imported by the freedom lovers and democracy idols of the Gulf States and the Turks, and NATO. Aside of what you and I think of the Syrian regime, the majority of the Syrian army is Sunnis, yet the army seems to stay intact for the most part. As far as I know, the opposition to the regime is made up from Syrians from all sects, not only Sunnis.
          If the “free Syrian army” is being run by the likes of Oqab Saqr, then we know that they cannot win any battle, not to mention overthrowing the regime.
          As for as your scenario of Palestinians siding with the Syrian fanatics ,and shooting at Shia ,it is possible that some will inject some “Taliban jihadists” to blow up themselves to create such a scenario, but I very much doubt that a Shia /Sunni war will take place in Lebanon. I expect possible mini incidents here and there, but nothing more.
          And you are right, all Lebanese agree on not wanting the Palestinians in Lebanon but some wanted them killed, and others want them to return to their country, with dignity.

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          the fact that you color your hair doesnt make you an european

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          you are such an arab… and there is nothing you can do about it..

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          hahaha so i am a product of mut3a which you consider as prostitution? hey you are the one who’s bragging about that you are 1% this and 1% that which makes your ancstors look like the biggest whores in the history.. but i dont judge ya!!! arabs are like that…

      • Mahdi Kenaani

        you stated below that palestinians have been their own enimies. doesnt it apply to all arabs? I mean look at this arab hannibal. he for one hates the palestinians more than everything..

        • Hannibal

          First, I am not Arab. I am Lebanese, Maroon hair and blue eyes, and genetically European.
          Second, I do not hate anybody… My political views differ and my war was with the PLO not the Palestinians. Hamas for instance never fired a shot at us Lebanese so I have no problems with them.
          Third, I do not like your condescending tone… If you want an opponent I will be one, and if you seek an enemy in me I will oblige and you won’t like it. Choose.
          P.S. Give me ONE reason to believe you are Canaanite. Have you run your blood for DNA testing? If so what were the results?
          Finally, enimies is spelled enemies… That is a freebie 😛

        • Mahdi Kenaani

          first. you have always been an arab.
          second. you are an arab.
          third. you are still an arab.
          fourth. you will always be an arab.

          no matter what your genes tell you.

          i neither wanna be your friend nor your enEmy.. why cant we just be frenemies?

        • Hannibal

          You can say it all you like… My complexion says otherwise. If you see me you will never guess I am Arabic, Middle Eastern or Lebanese… When I tell people I am Lebanese they say no way. So say it all you want and climb on your Arabian horse and scream at the top of your lungs the fact remains that genetically I belong to the European race and exactly British. Believe me I had hoped to be a J2 Canaanite but the study said otherwise and I had to accept it as I would have accepted it if I were to be a J1 Arab.
          I am not saying this to deny the Arabic nature of some of the Lebanese as there are many, 30% to be exact. So say it all you like my frenemy I will remain a Lebanese of a European descent and you of an unknown origin.
          If you like to find out if you are a Canaanite go to National Geographic and buy the kit. It is only $99. Don’t be cheap. Send your swab in (It does not hurt just in case you’re a wimp) and let us see the results… Who knows you may get lucky and find out you are a brother of mine whose ancestors were British as well… Then we, hand in hand, can put our differences together, go and drink Johnny Walker Scotch, and raise an alcoholic toast to the wahabis… 

        • Hannibal

          The fact that you call yourself a mahdi actually proves you are a lunatic… As it is blasphemy to begin with even for the Shia heretic religion.
          The fact that you call yourself Kenaani does not make you a Canaanite… As a matter of fact I know you are a confused ARAB dressed in a Persian rug believing you are better than your Arab brothers… 
          What you do not know is that your Arab blood shows the minute you adopt Shia Islam as your religion and practice satanism in the shadows. BUT we see who you are even when hiding behind your Persian finger you show your Arab identity. A7maq bell khatt el 3ariid. Your prologues and proses and blogs and posts ring the sound of a Persian koss-sher… I am sure you know what it is.

        • Hannibal

          Beside being a racist you are above all the product of mout3a… Mout3a is a technology of reproducing like rats invented in Arabia… It is a concealed prostitution ring for frustrated Arabs who do not want to commit. 

        • Hannibal

          When a kid keyboard warrior runs out of words she repeats herself like a parrot… An Arab parrot with a towel on her head that is. Growing not knowing who her dad was for sperm mixing in a mout3a ring she becomes frustrated and spew her hatred against the many Arab dads who did her mom… I pity you. Did you ever try psychiatry? I hear that it works on confused kids. May be you learned your lesson and won’t open your legs to more than one man so your offsprings won’t come out as confused as you are.

      • Mahdi Kenaani

        you stated below that palestinians have been their own enimies. doesnt it apply to all arabs? I mean look at this arab hannibal. he for one hates the palestinians more than everything..

    • Prophettttt

      Hannibal; You say that you are not an Arab, but a Lebanese with blue eyes and Maroon Hair, which makes you European. At the same time, you say that you are a Maronite Christian. You have the right to identify yourself as you wish, but that does not settle the historical facts about the origin of Lebanese,or the Maronites.
      You’d agree with me that Christianity originated in the Middle East rather than Europe, You’d also agree that St. Maron is originally Aramaic christian, who came from Syria with a group of monks and settled in the mountains of Lebanon, and eventually converted people around him. Are we to believe that everyone who was converted was a non-Arab? Can one make the assumption that the Maronites are Syrian instead of Lebanese?
      If one is to believe that Maronites who came from Syria, and settled in the mountains of Lebanon only married among themselves? Are we to believe that the medieval tony and Charlie’s ,who came from Syria,only married medieval maries and Georgettes, and therefore produced little Tonys and pierres who were pure Maronites? Where did the European blue eyes and Marron hair came from? If that was true, then The Maronites are a separate race or a separate ethnic group. What about the converts and their off springs? What are they? Are they Pure Maronites, Aramic, or Syrians? Is there anything pure anymore? Don’t you think that everyone in the region is really a mud? Are we to believe that every blond hair and blue eyes person in the Arab world is not an Arab? My own daughter will fool you with her sharp blue eyes and features of being Scandinavian. Some of my extended family members have similar features, yet our family is originated in Meka, and we’re decedent of Hussein. Does that make me a non-Lebanese? I can tell you of a certain village, on top of a hill in the south, whose population is mostly blonds and blue eyes with very Slavic features, yet they are Muslims, Lebanese, and Arab. Yes we always teased them that foreign troops used to settle mountains and things could get hot at times.
      I’m not making any assumption about you and your ancestors, but these are legitimate questions anyone can ask. If you think you’re not an Arab, I don’t want you to be one, nor do I care. But you can’t claim to be Lebanese as if “Lebanese” is a different race or ethnic group, yet tell us that your ancestors are European.

      • Hannibal

        The Maronites came from what was Byzantium… They were monks… They converted a lot of the dwellers of what is Modern Syria and Lebanon to Christianity… The Crusades came later and after they were defeated by the army of Salaahudiin they held onto Tyre, Sidon, Tripoli and Aker for a long time but lost interest and a lot went back to Europe specially the people with titles (Earls, counts etc…) The poor and the people who married into the land ended up melting into the populace. 
        That being said I really NEVER understand why you are mixing she3baan be ramadaan… I never said that the Maronites were European… I said that genetic studies in Lebanon proved that the third of the Maronites (usually those dwelling in the seaports) are of J2 haplotype and of Aramaic ancestry the other third is J2 Arabs and the rest are of European ancestry… There are NO sects in Lebanon that proved to be of one race. That is a reflection of our history. 
        My best friend who is a Shia is European while her dad’s Y chromosome is a J1 Arab. Obviously he passed his X chromosome to his daughter therefore being half Arab and half European. There is no pure race except probably in Arabia proper. It is a third/third/third distribution of European, Aramaic, Arabic races intermixed in Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria distributed equally amongst sects except amongst J1 Arabs who are of a slight Sunni majority. It is indeed slight.
        I have no interest in this discussion as I am certain 100% of what I am saying from scientific articles which I can email you and a book that my dad wrote, a history book that is online. I did a comparative study and found out that no sect really can claim purity of race… I never claimed that Lebanese is a different race but I do not want to be excluded from being Lebanese by the ones claiming that Lebanon is purely and Arab country… That is why for the sake of inclusivity I say Lebanese are Lebanese. Honestly it is really a simple concept. I do not see where I failed to explain all of that. 

        • Prophettttt

          Correct me if I’m wrong.They came from Syria regardless of the fact that Syria was under byzantine rule. Syria was mostly Christians  before byzantine.As of their origin,there is a big debate on whether they were originally Arabs or not.
          According to Kamal Salibi, who is a well known scholars of Maronites and Lebanese history,They were Arabs before they even came to Lebanon. Her what He says:“While the Maronites have traditionally used Syriac for their liturgy, they appear to have been Arab rather than Aramaeo-Arab in ethnic origin; their ecclesiastical and secular literature, as known directly or from reference from as early as the 10th century A.D., is entirely in Arabic. Their ethnic difference from other Syrian Christians, who were mainly Aramaean or Aramaeo-Arab, might explain in part why they came to be organised as a separate church. The claim of the community to be descended from the Mardaites, first advanced by the Patriarch Istifan al-Duwayhi (1668-1704), is historically incredible.”
          My whole point was that the Christians of the middle east are some Arabs ,and some Aramaic and Coptic. I AGREE with you that every sect has been mixed up over the centuries,and there is no purity .But the Maronite ,in particular, seem to have more Arab origin than most Christians of the middle east. This is something many Maronite reject,and insist on their Lebanese origin. Not that I personally care, but it is a debate that can not be avoided. No one is excluding you from being Lebanese, because being Lebanese is a national identity regardless of where all of us originated. I won’t trade it with any other national identity myself,but there is no denial of the Arab  influence in all of our origin as a nation.You have stated the following:”I belong to the European race and exactly British”. ,this is exactly what I opened this discussion.
          If you really had no interest in this discussion, you should have never replied,and I would have understood. 
          You’re more than welcome to email  me this article.
          theprophettttt@yahoo.com

      • Hannibal

        You are wrong… Those history books were written before the genetic studies were done… DNA does not lie. I believe in Science and history supported by science.
        Here is the article:
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2427286/
        Please do pay attention to Figure 2:
        In particular the R2b haplotype (European) at the end of the graph to which I belong.
        As far as where the Maronites came from they never came from anywhere they were in Lebanon but adopted that religion which originated in Syria. Being a christian in the U.S. does not make a person a Palestinian where Christianity started.

        • Prophettttt

          Thanks for the article, This reminds me of college years where you had home work to do,but at least here I have no deadline.I will take my time,and try to absorb all this material. 
          I do need to correct you ,and at the same time, clarify my own comment which you seem to misinterpret  First, I never meant to imply that all Maronites came from Syria . I meant that St.Maron,and the monks and others(Curious to know if you know any numbers) who started this Maronite church had came from Syria,and they were Syrians. No one is doubting the Lebanese identity of the Maronite,but you can’t say that they were in Lebanon either.Yes those who adopted the Maronite sect were indeed Lebanese and those who brought the teachings of the sect came from Syria,and became Lebanese.

        • 5thDrawer

          Yes, interesting. And shows ONE kind of uniqueness of Lebanon by the conclusion. 1300 years of living in segregated little intolerant societies. 🙁

  • 5thDrawer

    It is how … in all of history since the ancient glory of peaceful traders of Tyre – which it seems no-one can write a book on for school-children to learn by – Lebanese have been walked over by MOST … and continue to be.
    Each successive ‘army’ tries to change Lebanon … perhaps it’s better that most Lebanese have gone to live elsewhere and make room for armies of refugees ….

    • Patience2

       Sounds like Lebanon is the ME’s Poland.

  • 5thDrawer

    It is how … in all of history since the ancient glory of peaceful traders of Tyre – which it seems no-one can write a book on for school-children to learn by – Lebanese have been walked over by MOST … and continue to be.
    Each successive ‘army’ tries to change Lebanon … perhaps better that most have gone to live elsewhere.

    • Patience2

       Sounds like Lebanon is the ME’s Poland.

  • Guest

    Classy. Arabs murder Arabs as they always have and and continue to do today and you, unable to blame Israel, say instead that it “facilitated” one massacre among the dozens and dozens that go on daily in the Arab world.  THIS one, no other, not even those that prompted it, must be remembered ad nauseum.  Also classy to add an highly anti-Semitic and wholly invented quote to complete the coddling of some of your viewers’ most idiotic but strongly held conviction: Arabs are barbarians because of some dark Jewish conspiracy to destroy the world and America is being manipulated by their secret cabale.  Arabs and Americans are not really adults capable of making their own decisions it would appear. In fact we’ve learned today that Assad — another shining exemplar of Arab “resistance” — is himself a Jew! How predictable. Only Jews are capable of doing anything it seems…. everyone else is a retarded, easily manipulated, if murderous, child.  The massacres weren’t really committed by Arab militias who chose to go in and slaughter hundreds (as their people were slaughtered before). No, it was Israel that “facilitated” it. Israel is God in your anti-Semitic obsession.  It decides everything.  Everyone else is always a victim. Even of their own free choices. Israel facilitated that too. You morons.

    Is this a paper of just more toilet paper?  Get a hint: as long as you blame Jews for the ugliness of your societies (which, incidentally, has NEVER existed in Jewish society), you are condemning yourself to that ugliness forever.  When’s the last time you saw Jews blaming others for their problems?  Jews blame themselves even when they SHOULD blame others. And the result? Nobel prizes and a state that shames the rest of this ugly neighborhood.

    Instead of inventing pathetic quotes to excuse yourselves, get a mirror. Get a shrink. Get a clue. Grow some balls.

  • Guest

    Classy. Arabs murder Arabs as they always have and and continue to do today and you, unable to blame Israel, say instead that it “facilitated” one massacre among the dozens and dozens that go on daily in the Arab world.  THIS one, no other, not even those that prompted it, must be remembered ad nauseum.  Also classy to add an highly anti-Semitic and wholly invented quote to complete the coddling of some of your viewers’ most idiotic but strongly held conviction: Arabs are barbarians because of some dark Jewish conspiracy to destroy the world and America is being manipulated by their secret cabale.  Arabs and Americans are not really adults capable of making their own decisions it would appear. In fact we’ve learned today that Assad — another shining exemplar of Arab “resistance” — is himself a Jew! How predictable. Only Jews are capable of doing anything it seems…. everyone else is a retarded, easily manipulated, if murderous, child.  The massacres weren’t really committed by Arab militias who chose to go in and slaughter hundreds (as their people were slaughtered before). No, it was Israel that “facilitated” it. Israel is God in your anti-Semitic obsession.  It decides everything.  Everyone else is always a victim. Even of their own free choices. Israel facilitated that too. You morons.

    Is this a paper of just more toilet paper?  Get a hint: as long as you blame Jews for the ugliness of your societies (which, incidentally, has NEVER existed in Jewish society), you are condemning yourself to that ugliness forever.  When’s the last time you saw Jews blaming others for their problems?  Jews blame themselves even when they SHOULD blame others. And the result? Nobel prizes and a state that shames the rest of this ugly neighborhood.

    Instead of inventing pathetic quotes to excuse yourselves, get a mirror. Get a shrink. Get a clue. Grow some balls.

  • Pass26

    Classy. Arabs murder Arabs as they always have and and continue to do today and you, unable to blame Israel, say instead that it “facilitated” one massacre among the dozens and dozens that go on daily in the backward Arab world.  THIS one, no other, not even those that prompted it, must be remembered ad nauseum.  Also classy to add an highly anti-Semitic and wholly invented quote to complete the coddling of some of your viewers’ most idiotic but strongly held conviction: Arabs are barbarians because of some dark Jewish conspiracy to destroy the world and America is being manipulated by their secret cabale.  Arabs and Americans are not really adults capable of making their own decisions it would appear. In fact we’ve learned today that Assad — another shining exemplar of Arab “resistance” — is himself a Jew! How predictable. Only Jews are capable of doing anything it seems…. everyone else is a retarded, easily manipulated, if murderous, child.  The massacres weren’t really committed by Arab militias who chose to go in and slaughter hundreds (as their people were slaughtered before). No, it was Israel that “facilitated” it. Israel is God in your anti-Semitic obsession.  It decides everything.  Everyone else is always a victim. Even of their own free choices. Israel facilitated that too. You morons.

    Is this a paper of just more toilet paper?  Get a hint: as long as you blame Jews for the ugliness of your societies (which, incidentally, has NEVER existed in Jewish society), you are condemning yourself to that ugliness forever.  When’s the last time you saw Jews blaming others for their problems?  Jews blame themselves even when they SHOULD blame others. And the result? Nobel prizes and a state that shames the rest of this ugly neighborhood.

    Instead of inventing pathetic quotes to excuse yourselves, get a mirror. Get a shrink. Get a clue. Grow some balls.

  • Not once in this “article” have you used the word “Phalangist,” “Maronite,” or “Christian” in direct relation to the massacre of Palestinians in Sabra & Shatila, even though they are the culprits. Verily, the IDF is guilty for turning a blind eye to the horrendous events going on in the camps that their forces had surrounded. However, it wasn’t the IDF that mutilated, castrated, raped, and murdered thousands of innocent men, women, and children, nor did they give the Phalangist forces any orders of the sort. Why not admit that these were reprisal attacks for the PLO-orchestrated massacre at Damour as well as their perceived involvement in Gemayal’s assassination? You do your national conscious a disservice by promoting falsehoods and lies, instead of attempting to foster honest talks to address old grievances.

    • Hannibal

      First, the Phalangists had nothing to do with it… It was the Lebanese Forces under Hobeyka… Geagea wasn’t even at the driver’s seat… Hobeyka was the sole perpetrator.

      Second, Christians? Really? How about all the Christians who fought with the Leftists and defended the Palestinian cause? 

      Thirdly, Maronites? The Lebanese Forces who did that deed were from Ashrafieh with a majority Orthodox Christians.

      and Lastly, Damour had nothing to do with it… There were many massacres perpetrated against Christians that have been happening all over the Middle East. Look closely at what the Ottomans Turk did to the Arab Christians and so on until you find that the cancer is really militant Islam.

      Wait a little and you will find how Shiites and Sunnis will slaughter each other in an all out war over a story that happened some 1500 years ago… Pathetic!

      • This article says “Israeli-facilitated massacre” and is written with the assurance that it was Israel’s fault. Whether it was Maronites, Orthodox Christians, or whatever Lebanese militia- the perpetrators were LEBANESE. Calling Sharon the “orchestrator of the massacre?” REALLY? If those are the kind of lies Arabs tell themselves, I can see why there is some much conflict. It seems as though Israel is the only country involved that has actually admitted its role in the massacre, so people are alright with brushing the Arabs’ role aside and just putting the blame on Israel.

        • Hannibal

          I was there and you weren’t… Yes militiamen did the deed there is no question about it… However, they had absolutely NO WAY to get there. They were transplanted there and it was a formula for disaster… Sharon was there with Hobeyka looking with binoculars into the camp operation progress… So who to blame?

  • Not once in this “article” have you used the word “Phalangist,” “Maronite,” or “Christian” in direct relation to the massacre of Palestinians in Sabra & Shatila, even though they are the culprits. Verily, the IDF is guilty for turning a blind eye to the horrendous events going on in the camps that their forces had surrounded. However, it wasn’t the IDF that mutilated, castrated, raped, and murdered thousands of innocent men, women, and children, nor did they give the Phalangist forces any orders of the sort. Why not admit that these were reprisal attacks for the PLO-orchestrated massacre at Damour as well as their perceived involvement in Gemayal’s assassination? You do your national conscious a disservice by promoting falsehoods and lies, instead of attempting to foster honest talks to address old grievances.

    • Hannibal

      First, the Phalangists had nothing to do with it… It was the Lebanese Forces under Hobeyka… Geagea wasn’t even at the driver’s seat… Hobeyka was the sole perpetrator.

      Second, Christians? Really? How about all the Christians who fought with the Leftists and defended the Palestinian cause? 

      Thirdly, Maronites? The Lebanese Forces who did that deed were from Ashrafieh with a majority Orthodox Christians.

      and Lastly, Damour had nothing to do with it… There were many massacres perpetrated against Christians that have been happening all over the Middle East. Look closely at what the Ottomans Turk did to the Arab Christians and so on until you find that the cancer is really militant Islam.

      Wait a little and you will find how Shiites and Sunnis will slaughter each other in an all out war over a story that happened some 1500 years ago… Pathetic!

      • This article says “Israeli-facilitated massacre” and is written with the assurance that it was Israel’s fault. Whether it was Maronites, Orthodox Christians, or whatever Lebanese militia- the perpetrators were LEBANESE. Calling Sharon the “orchestrator of the massacre?” REALLY? If those are the kind of lies Arabs tell themselves, I can see why there is some much conflict. It seems as though Israel is the only country involved that has actually admitted its role in the massacre, so people are alright with brushing the Arabs’ role aside and just putting the blame on Israel.

        • Hannibal

          I was there and you weren’t… Yes militiamen did the deed there is no question about it… However, they had absolutely NO WAY to get there. They were transplanted there and it was a formula for disaster… Sharon was there with Hobeyka looking with binoculars into the camp operation progress… So who to blame?

  • Persistent

    Most of you guys are a wack job, loaded with anger and loathe. You claim to be civilized and smart but yet you think like bigots.  Why one’s ancestry is so important? It is hypocritical that we live in the west, we make those places our homes, live with and around people from all walks of life and background, we accept them, work and do business with them, but yet when we are talking to one another, we dig out one’s entire hertiage and past, connect and label them for whom they are and not for what they have done. It makes me sick to my stomach reading some of the comments. Mentalities and attitudes like that is the prime cancer that keeps on spreading. I feel sorry for you and for your kids having to live in such an environment where their minds are subjected to those illnesses and poisons. If only the energy exerted behind this hatred and anger can be transformed into a good use, we will be in a better place.

    How can a society or a nation be build on such wrong premises and ideals? This is the reason why we are so far behind everyone else in the world and we will never mound to anything other than blood thirsty people…

    • master09

      Thats why they call them Arabs… Ten more people with your thinking and yes we would move forward faster…

  • Persistent

    Most of you guys are wackies, loaded with anger and loathe. You claim to be civilized and smart but yet you think like bigots.  Why one’s ancestry is so important? It is hypocritical that we live in the west, we make those places our homes, live with and around people from all walks of life and background, we accept them, work and do business with them, but yet when we are talking to one another, we dig out one’s entire hertiage and past, connect and label for whom we are and not for what we have done. It makes me sick to my stomach reading some of the comments. Mentalities and attitudes like that is the prime cancer that keeps on spreading.

    How can a society or a nation be build on such wrong premises and ideals.This is the reason why we are so far behind everyone else in the world and we will never mound to anything other than blood thirsty people?

    • master09

      Thats why they call them Arabs… Ten more people with your thinking and yes we would move forward faster…

  • $21082311

    I have to say this whole dialogue about genetic ancestries and skin and eye color is so meaningless. Have you ever heard an American talk like that even when they’re Irish or Polish or darrab el sekhen or do they consider themselves American and pledge to their country’s flag ? When Americans state their roots it is simply to say where their grandparents immigrated from. And our roots are evidently much more ancient that that. I wonder if they’ll give one the European citizenship if they find out he or she has genetics that point back to those origins. And does a Lebanese who has dark hair and brown eyes and who might or might not have Arab ‘gene’ but can be very handsome, ask my wife she thinks I’m gorgeous and I am dark, haven’t tested my history and don’t care to do… does that make him or her less Lebanese or on the other hand less connected to the Arab region as a Lebanese because they carry a western gene due to historical population exchanges? It looks like this whole discussion is caused by an identity crisis and above all sectarian biases that kill any hope for nurturing true patriotism!

    • Hannibal

      Thank you for stating my point to that idiot Mahdi… All I said that being Lebanese does not make me an Arab although there are some Arab Lebanese… That simple! It is exactly my point like an American says I am a U.S. citizen from an Irish ancestry I said I am a Lebanese from a European ancestry. He keeps his bull just to get some attention. I am done wasting my time with this low life mout3a product.

      • Mahdi Kenaani

        just shhhhhhh….

  • Dani38

    I have to say this whole dialogue about genetic ancestries and skin and eye color is so meaningless. Have you ever heard an American talk like that even when they’re Irish or Polish or darrab el sekhen or do they consider themselves American and pledge to their country’s flag ? When Americans state their roots it is simply to say where their grandparents immigrated from. And our roots are evidently much more ancient that that. I wonder if they’ll give one the European citizenship if they find out he or she has genetics that point back to those origins. And does a Lebanese who has dark hair and brown eyes and who might or might not have Arab ‘gene’ but can be very handsome, ask my wife she thinks I’m gorgeous and I am dark, haven’t tested my history and don’t care to do… does that make him or her less Lebanese or on the other hand less connected to the Arab region as a Lebanese because they carry a western gene due to historical population exchanges? It looks like this whole discussion is caused by an identity crisis and above all sectarian biases that kill any hope for nurturing true patriotism!

    • Hannibal

      Thank you for stating my point to that idiot Mahdi… All I said that being Lebanese does not make me an Arab although there are some Arab Lebanese… That simple! It is exactly my point like an American says I am a U.S. citizen from an Irish ancestry I said I am a Lebanese from a European ancestry. He keeps his bull just to get some attention. I am done wasting my time with this low life mout3a product.

      • Mahdi Kenaani

        just shhhhhhh….

  • Persistent

    Dani38,  I totally agree with your argument and this is precisely why we as people in that region are at crossroads. Everywhere I have been around the world, I am taken by how proud the people are of themselves and their country. We are champions at encourging divisions, turn on each others and love to treat one another with contempt, we don’t seem to have too much faith or confidence in ourselves, deny and distance ourselves from who we are and where we belong and mimic other people’s behaviors to justify our shortcomings and to seek refuge. If you ask me it is pathetic….

  • Persistent

    Dani38,  I totally agree with your argument and this is precisely why we as people in that region are at crossroads. Everywhere I have been around the world, I am taken by how proud the people are of themselves and their country. We are champions at encourging divisions, turn on each others and love to treat one another with contempt, we don’t seem to have too much faith or confidence in ourselves, deny and distance ourselves from who we are and where we belong and mimic other people’s behaviors to justify our shortcomings and to seek refuge. If you ask me it is pathetic….