Religious Leaders in the Public Square

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by Ghassan karam

“The closest thing to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria” thus spoke the Maronite Patriarch Al Rai. Such nonsense, had it been spouted by a lesser individual would have been grounds to have the speaker examined. There is nothing that can be defended in the above statement and unfortunately the Patriarch goes on his merry way of not realizing how vacuous he sounds. To make things worse the above was said just as he was embarking on a trip to visit the Jordanian Monarch and the Qatari Prince. Both were too well mannered to show their disgust with the inanity of these childish utterances that demonstrate a total lack of understanding of what is democracy and even what is the basis of Christian dogma. As if the above senseless views were not enough the Patriarch dared defend these faulty views upon his return to Lebanon by issuing a statement berating some Lebanese for not reading the whole text, as if the qualification “in the Arab world” was to be his savior from having committed , and not for the first time this unforgivable faux pas.

I guess his eminence has been too busy making silly statements left and right about areas and topics that are outside his area of expertise that he must have forgotten that the early Christians were thrown to the lions in the Coliseum of Rome rather than waver from the teachings of their master who urged them to “know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” The truth your eminence is that Bashar, whom you have called a reformer, is a butcher who murders men women and children for no reason except to stay on the “thrown”. Isn’t it blasphemy for a cleric to oppose the down trodden and to side with power, arrogance and tyranny. I always thought that Christians worshiped humility and worked to liberate the poor and the exploited since He taught them that “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

What is even more frustrating than all of these shameful statements is the insistence of Patriarch Al Rai that he does not delve into politics. What in the name of God does one call statements justifying a state within a state, offering moral support to a corrupt and bankrupt dictatorship that is opposed by practically the whole world for its cruelty and its opposition to the right to dissent, to freedom and to the right to congregate, what is a judgment about whether systems are democratic or not and missives asking the world community to be blackmailed by terror but political statements.

Maybe, just maybe, there is a silver lining to all of this. Maybe Lebanese of all religious affiliations will come to recognize that these men of the cloth spend a lifetime reading their holy books and interpreting dogma and they should stick to their own knitting. It is clear that it is difficult for one to pray to two Gods, a civil secular mundane and political one and a highly spiritual and mystical existence. These two do not mix and it is high time that we ask the clergy to stay out of politics totally for the same reasons that they would not welcome a commoner interpreting their scriptures.

This last call is not directed only at Patriarch Al Rai but also at all other religious leaders. We need to implement the present constitution by eliminating sectarianism from the political sphere. The best and the most meaningful starting point for that would be for government to stop classifying citizen by the religion that they practice or chose not to practice. It is no one’s business whether I pray or to whom I pray. What is important is for government to treat all its citizens equally and to provide them with equal opportunity based on nothing else but merit. This would go a long way in diminishing and hopefully eliminating any civil role for religious leaders in the public square. Maybe then they would see the wisdom of being silent and of standing up to power at any cost. Then the religious leaders will get the respect that they deserve from those that chose to seek their spiritual guidance. There is no room for the religious in the public square as both Patriarch Al Rai and Mufti Kabbani have demonstrated recently.

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64 responses to “Religious Leaders in the Public Square”

  1. MeYosemite Avatar
    MeYosemite

    Rai was hiding somewhere when the syrians were ravaging Lebanon in the civil war. What does he know about the reality of life. likely he will be the one to alienate the Maronites from their beliefs.

    1. Ghassan Karam Avatar
      Ghassan Karam

      MeYosemite
                        Someone pointed out to me that Michael Young had a very sharp critique of the Patriarch, even sharper than the one above in The Daily Star. The Patriarch has crossed a line and I think that he will learn not to cross it again.

      1. MeYosemite Avatar
        MeYosemite

        Agreed. In the daily star Rai takes another stance of neutrality and back paddling. Religious leaders job is to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the people, all people, speak for their freedom. At least he should speak up now for the right of equality. This guy, I think enjoys parading in his red and yellow uniform. I think jumblatt recently is doing a better job than Rai is, and taking a front row and the risks. Rai just run away.

  2. MeYosemite Avatar
    MeYosemite

    Rai was hiding somewhere when the syrians were ravaging Lebanon in the civil war. What does he know about the reality of life. likely he will be the one to alienate the Maronites from their beliefs.

    1. MeYosemite
                        Someone pointed out to me that Michael Young had a very sharp critique of the Patriarch, even sharper than the one above in The Daily Star. The Patriarch has crossed a line and I think that he will learn not to cross it again.

      1. MeYosemite Avatar
        MeYosemite

        Agreed. In the daily star Rai takes another stance of neutrality and back paddling. Religious leaders job is to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the people, all people, speak for their freedom. At least he should speak up now for the right of equality. This guy, I think enjoys parading in his red and yellow uniform. I think jumblatt recently is doing a better job than Rai is, and taking a front row and the risks. Rai just run away.

  3. Patience2 Avatar
    Patience2

    The man is not mentally challenged, he is simply a flack of the dark side.

  4. Patience2 Avatar
    Patience2

    The man is not mentally challenged, he is simply a flack of the dark side.

  5. I disagree both with the political point made by His Beatitude and with the perpetual criticism of Religious Leaders and their implication in politics.
    1. If the argument of incompetence is to be upheld, then define criteria for competence, and soon you will be as close to democracy as the Syrian regime. Answer the argument made by His Beatitude with no ad hominem criticism and this should be enough.
    2. When a politician talks about the role to be assigned to religion (i.e. sticking to the holy books, and mystical experiences) then he/she goes beyond his/her own sphere of competence as well. Let’s face it: the separation of religion and politics is indeed necessary in setting the rules (the Laws for example) seeking as much justice as possible, but is impossible when it comes to human decisions. Things are too interrelated. For example: can you religiously defend the poor and the victim without taking a stand that will be qualified as political? When the political stand is taken for a religious motive, then either you agree with the stand (whatever YOUR motives are) and you will praise the person, or you will not agree with the stand (again, whatever YOUR motives are) and you will ask for separation between politics and religion. 
    3. The Bishops are citizens, but are no politicians. If their opinion has a political impact, it’s an impact that WE give them. They don’t defend their opinions neither with weapons nor with demagogic rallies. In this instance, the point of His Beatitude is that structurally (according to the law, disregarding the abuse made by the people in charge), the Syrian Constitution does separate to a certain extent Religion and Politics requesting the President to be a Sunni without explicitly having Islam as the State Religion. Another point made by His Beatitude is that we cannot disregard the fact that the western stand on the Arab spring is ambiguous at best, not inspired by any desire to see the populations of this part of the world free and independent, but rather held under control, for the sake of security in Israel. You can call Hezbollah a militia (and you’re right, would say the Patriarch), but you cannot say that you who accuse (i.e. America) are the axis of Good that has an eschatological mission to fight the Beast (See how politicians turn to religion when it suits them?). This would be hypocrisy. 
    4. Now as I said I don’t agree with the Patriarch’s stand on the political ground because what His Beatitude is saying is just one part of the truth. The march towards freedom is not a straight line, and history has a Reason that Reason should learn. We cannot hope for God’s Kingdom to be reflected by any government on Earth. We should work for a Constitution that brings about Human Rights and Human dignity, where “closest to democracy in comparison with other dictatorships” is just not enough. As long as this regime stands, it stands in the way of a better life for tens of millions of people and for generations to come.

    1. Ghassan Karam Avatar
      Ghassan Karam

      Danny,
                Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Allow me to stress that there were no ad hominems used except for the fact that this latest statement about democracy ranks on the same level as when an American President (Ford) became the laughing stock when he said that Poland was not Communist in the early 1970’s.
              We do not disagree on the fact that religious leaders get the power of their position as a result of the importance that we , the citizens, attach to their doings and that is precisely why I said that I hope that we stop taking them seriously so that they can do that which they are supposed to do, offer spiritual guidance to those that seek it.
             A call for the separation of church from state is a purely political issue that is totally within the competence of the political arena. Separation is not a call for anyone to stop practicing their belief but is simply a call to treat all citizens equally and not to allow the use of religious affilliation to be used as a criteria for anything.The choice not to believe is a belief after all.
            And yes I can defend the poor and the disinherited without becoming a politician. All what needs be done is take the high road and speak about morality and ethics.

      1. leobetapar Avatar
        leobetapar

        for you ethics means £ and morality means $

    2. leobetapar Avatar
      leobetapar

      on this moment of the point we are on your path of truth ,there is one thing important protect: the no sunnis people of Syria from the raptors salafiste  send in  by the kurdishs hal saud and hal thanny

    3. leobetapar Avatar
      leobetapar

      on this moment of the point we are on your path of truth ,there is one thing important protect: the no sunnis people of Syria from the raptors salafiste  send in  by the kurdishs hal saud and hal thanny

  6. I disagree both with the political point made by His Beatitude and with the perpetual criticism of Religious Leaders and their implication in politics.
    1. If the argument of incompetence is to be upheld, then define criteria for competence, and soon you will be as close to democracy as the Syrian regime. Answer the argument made by His Beatitude with no ad hominem criticism and this should be enough.
    2. When a politician talks about the role to be assigned to religion (i.e. sticking to the holy books, and mystical experiences) then he/she goes beyond his/her own sphere of competence as well. Let’s face it: the separation of religion and politics is indeed necessary in setting the rules (the Laws for example) seeking as much justice as possible, but is impossible when it comes to human decisions. Things are too interrelated. For example: can you religiously defend the poor and the victim without taking a stand that will be qualified as political? When the political stand is taken for a religious motive, then either you agree with the stand (whatever YOUR motives are) and you will praise the person, or you will not agree with the stand (again, whatever YOUR motives are) and you will ask for separation between politics and religion. 
    3. The Bishops are citizens, but are no politicians. If their opinion has a political impact, it’s an impact that WE give them. They don’t defend their opinions neither with weapons nor with demagogic rallies. In this instance, the point of His Beatitude is that structurally (according to the law, disregarding the abuse made by the people in charge), the Syrian Constitution does separate to a certain extent Religion and Politics requesting the President to be a Sunni without explicitly having Islam as the State Religion. Another point made by His Beatitude is that we cannot disregard the fact that the western stand on the Arab spring is ambiguous at best, not inspired by any desire to see the populations of this part of the world free and independent, but rather held under control, for the sake of security in Israel. You can call Hezbollah a militia (and you’re right, would say the Patriarch), but you cannot say that you who accuse (i.e. America) are the axis of Good that has an eschatological mission to fight the Beast (See how politicians turn to religion when it suits them?). This would be hypocrisy. 
    4. Now as I said I don’t agree with the Patriarch’s stand on the political ground because what His Beatitude is saying is just one part of the truth. The march towards freedom is not a straight line, and history has a Reason that Reason should learn. We cannot hope for God’s Kingdom to be reflected by any government on Earth. We should work for a Constitution that brings about Human Rights and Human dignity, where “closest to democracy in comparison with other dictatorships” is just not enough. As long as this regime stands, it stands in the way of a better life for tens of millions of people and for generations to come.

    1. Danny,
                Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Allow me to stress that there were no ad hominems used except for the fact that this latest statement about democracy ranks on the same level as when an American President (Ford) became the laughing stock when he said that Poland was not Communist in the early 1970’s.
              We do not disagree on the fact that religious leaders get the power of their position as a result of the importance that we , the citizens, attach to their doings and that is precisely why I said that I hope that we stop taking them seriously so that they can do that which they are supposed to do, offer spiritual guidance to those that seek it.
             A call for the separation of church from state is a purely political issue that is totally within the competence of the political arena. Separation is not a call for anyone to stop practicing their belief but is simply a call to treat all citizens equally and not to allow the use of religious affilliation to be used as a criteria for anything.The choice not to believe is a belief after all.
            And yes I can defend the poor and the disinherited without becoming a politician. All what needs be done is take the high road and speak about morality and ethics.

      1. leobetapar Avatar
        leobetapar

        for you ethics means £ and morality means $

    2. leobetapar Avatar
      leobetapar

      on this moment of the point we are on your path of truth ,there is one thing important protect: the no sunnis people of Syria from the raptors salafiste  send in  by the kurdishs hal saud and hal thanny

  7. antar2011 Avatar
    antar2011

    Gusss
    i support you 100%

    if only these religious leaders were ‘wise” enough to take a courageous and honourable position….i am saying this with all due respect to what they represent within their sect.

  8. antar2011 Avatar
    antar2011

    Gusss
    i support you 100%

    if only these religious leaders were ‘wise” enough to take a courageous and honourable position….i am saying this with all due respect to what they represent within their sect.

  9. Prophettttt Avatar
    Prophettttt

    Ghassan, As much as I oppose religious leaders talking politics, and as much as I disagree with the political message that the Patriarch has expressed regarding the Syrian situation, I still think that people are being very selective when criticizing those leaders for their involvement in politics. The patriarch, as a citizen has the right to express his views as much as any other citizen ,but when we, the public follow the views expressed, we then give them more power to keep doing so; We do that by either praising them or criticizing them for whatever political position they take.
    What is worth noting is that when those positions suit our political views, we tend to defend these leaders against any criticism they face. When Patriarch Sfeir, took political stands that fit the political views of M14, He was hailed and praised as being righteous, and that He was the right voice to listen to. Anyone who dared criticized his political views; it was considered an attack on the entire Maronite church, and its followers. The same thing happened with Mufti Qubani, One day He was considered to be the guardian of the Muslim Sunni sect, and later on He was accused of being a traitor. Other example could be presented about Mufti Quabalan. My point/question is;Are we criticizing them for taking CERTAIN political position, or for taking ANY political position publically?
    I noticed that you criticized the patriarch for both taking a political position publically, and for the position He took in itself, when You should have emphasized your views, which I share , that He should not take political position period. By criticizing the content of his position, you gave him and his position more importance then it should get on its own.
    When we call for separation of state and religious institutions, are we asking these leaders to totally abstain from taking political positions publically? Or are we asking for political structure and civil laws that are not derived from any religious doctrine? It seems that most Lebanese have different interpretation of concept of “separation between religion and politics and state”.

    1. leobetapar Avatar
      leobetapar

      prophett the patriach make is job protecting the maronitesof Syria from the hideous salafiste and tell me which arabs country was more open and free  than Syria before the event (if it’s not lebanon )

      1. Prophettttt Avatar
        Prophettttt

        leo, I was more interested in discussing religious leaders involvement in politics than one particular view of the Patriarch.
        I happen to agree with you that Syrian society  has been more tolerant than all Arab countries with minorities and people’s right to pray as they wish, but  that did necessarily make it democratic.

        On  a personal note, I want to ask you as a friend and brother to try to maintain your respect , at least to those who always  respect you and respect the community. I believe you have a message and you can always present it without resorting to calling people names. I know some will find it entertaining., but trust me, You have  a lot to contribute to this forum,and I wish you take my advice.We can disagree  in politics,but there is no reason why we can’t always respect each other.
        You can call the  Saudi and the Qataris …. etc    what ever you wish, but not the people who are debating with you.Even those who call you names, you can always take the high road,and ignore them.
        If this upsets you, please forgive me, I just feel I had to tell you what’s on my chest just once, because I do like you,and  I know most people here like you even though they might disagree with everything you post. Peace.

        1. dabshaleem Avatar
          dabshaleem

          yu poeple  speek goood englize i not understod som i undstand salafites

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          (below) Need to find a salafite translator for Dab. Seems it’s what he understands …

    2. Ghassan Karam Avatar
      Ghassan Karam

      Prophetttttt
                   Religious leaders make political pronouncements only because they act as politicians and we treat them as such. He is not expressing a personal point of view but speaking as a representative of a substantial group that he presides over in a non political nature.
                  And you are right that we should not critique them only when the views that they issue are at odds with ours becasue the major point is that their realm is not politics and so their views on purely political issues are not warranted irrespective of whether they are right or wrong. In that regard you will find out that I have always been a critic of Sfeir for meddling in politics also.
                  But in this current situation Patriarch Al Rai has committed a double whammy; he acts as a politician par excellence and pretends that he is not and his declarations are so wrong and divissive that he fels the need to keep explaining himself. As an individual he is entitled to support Bashar but he is NOT entitled to call Bashar a democrat when Bashar himself does not call himself that.
                 Patriarch Al Rai has committed one faux pas after another and this cannot continue. If Lebanon offers an environment in which religious leaders can act as the final arbiters of what is right and what is wrong then I will have to accept that begrudgingly but I do not have to accept calling things by the opposite of what they are and blaming others for misunderstanding. He cannot speak from both sides of his mouth and yet expect to be taken seriously.

    3. Sebouh80 Avatar

      Hi Prophetttt,
      I fully agree with your viewpoint.

  10. Prophettttt Avatar
    Prophettttt

    Ghassan, As much as I oppose religious leaders talking politics, and as much as I disagree with the political message that the Patriarch has expressed regarding the Syrian situation, I still think that people are being very selective when criticizing those leaders for their involvement in politics. The patriarch, as a citizen has the right to express his views as much as any other citizen ,but when we, the public follow the views expressed, we then give them more power to keep doing so; We do that by either praising them or criticizing them for whatever political position they take.
    What is worth noting is that when those positions suit our political views, we tend to defend these leaders against any criticism they face. When Patriarch Sfeir, took political stands that fit the political views of M14, He was hailed and praised as being righteous, and that He was the right voice to listen to. Anyone who dared criticized his political views; it was considered an attack on the entire Maronite church, and its followers. The same thing happened with Mufti Qubani, One day He was considered to be the guardian of the Muslim Sunni sect, and later on He was accused of being a traitor. Other example could be presented about Mufti Quabalan. My point is we criticizing them for taking CERTAIN political position, or for taking ANY political position publically?
    I noticed that you criticized the patriarch for both taking a political position publically, and for the position He took in itself, when You should have emphasized your views, which I share , that He should not take political position period. By criticizing the content of his position, you gave him and his position more importance then it should get on its own.
    When we call for separation of state and religious institutions, are we asking these leaders to totally abstain from taking political positions publically? Or are we asking for political structure and civil laws that are not derived from any religious doctrine? It seems that most Lebanese have different interpretation of concept of “separation between religion and politics and state”.

    1. leobetapar Avatar
      leobetapar

      prophett the patriach make is job protecting the maronitesof Syria from the hideous salafiste and tell me which arabs country was more open and free  than Syria before the event (if it’s not lebanon )

      1. Prophettttt Avatar
        Prophettttt

        leo, I was more interested in discussing religious leaders involvement in politics than one particular view of the Patriarch,and whether the criticism is  valid regardless of what views they express publicly or not. 
        I happen to agree with you that Syrian society  has been more tolerant than all Arab countries with minorities and people’s right to pray as they wish, but  that did necessarily make it democratic.

        On  a personal note, I want to ask you as a friend and brother to try to maintain your respect , at least to those who always  respect you and respect the community. I believe you have a message and you can always present it without resorting to calling people names. I know some will find it entertaining., but trust me, You have  a lot to contribute to this forum,and I wish you take my advice.We can disagree  in politics,but there is no reason why we can’t always respect each other.
        You can call the  Saudi and the Qataris …. etc    what ever you wish, but not the people who are debating with you.Even those who call you names, you can always take the high road,and ignore them.
        If this upsets you, please forgive me, I just feel I had to tell you what’s on my chest just once, because I do like you,and  I know most people here like you even though they might disagree with everything you post. Peace.

        1. dabshaleem Avatar
          dabshaleem

          yu poeple  speek goood englize i not understod som i undstand salafites

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          (below) Need to find a salafite translator for Dab. Seems it’s what he understands …

    2. Prophetttttt
                   Religious leaders make political pronouncements only because they act as politicians and we treat them as such. He is not expressing a personal point of view but speaking as a representative of a substantial group that he presides over in a non political nature.
                  And you are right that we should not critique them only when the views that they issue are at odds with ours becasue the major point is that their realm is not politics and so their views on purely political issues are not warranted irrespective of whether they are right or wrong. In that regard you will find out that I have always been a critic of Sfeir for meddling in politics also.
                  But in this current situation Patriarch Al Rai has committed a double whammy; he acts as a politician par excellence and pretends that he is not and his declarations are so wrong and divissive that he fels the need to keep explaining himself. As an individual he is entitled to support Bashar but he is NOT entitled to call Bashar a democrat when Bashar himself does not call himself that.
                 Patriarch Al Rai has committed one faux pas after another and this cannot continue. If Lebanon offers an environment in which religious leaders can act as the final arbiters of what is right and what is wrong then I will have to accept that begrudgingly but I do not have to accept calling things by the opposite of what they are and blaming others for misunderstanding. He cannot speak from both sides of his mouth and yet expect to be taken seriously.

    3. Sebouh80 Avatar

      Hi Prophetttt,
      I fully agree with your viewpoint.

  11. leobetapar Avatar
    leobetapar

    mr blabla  come back Now you attack the patriach pretending to tach him christians dogma But idiot before to talk thing What’s that ‘s means christians dogma ?Poor idiot know that there is maronnite dogma ,catholique dogma ,orthodoxe dogma but not such a thing as christians dogma at least you wanna etablished some When you blabla on economic calling beyrouth do follow the chicago boys way that not problem but when you speak about the live of millions of people take care because idiots can be sometime despisse and not considered but not all the time

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      There’s a difference between dogma and thought, Leo. And l’m not listening to your idiocy.
      And if you are trying to put me in some pre-determined category, you won’t succeed.

      1. leobetapar Avatar
        leobetapar

        so now you are the piecemouth of the idiot Ghassam,when i critized his litterature you take it for you Told you there is really an psychiatric asylum in Beyrouth go and take an appointment

        1. Ghassan Karam Avatar
          Ghassan Karam

          leobetapar,
                         You are entitled to your points of view but please be respectful of others.

    2. Hannibal Avatar

      Freedom of speech has its limits… May be it’s time to get you banned. lol

      1. leobetapar Avatar
        leobetapar

        hahaha i win ten time you got fear yeah got fear ,now yoou want censured you are like the hal thani and hal saud the dictators
        when an idiot tell idiotie anyone have right to point at it

        1. Hannibal Avatar

          Oh you got it all wrong… You speak like those trashy homeless people who live in the streets… You know the type gangsters thugs etc… Still we value your opposing views but will not stand to derogatory remarks calling people idiots whenever you disagree with them.

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Errr … Hannibal … let us not go too far with the ‘value’ bit … ok? 😉
          Let him chew on Stilton a while. 🙂

      2. hannibal, all this time i wasted trying to reason with leo would have been better spent cuddeling with jessica habib instead  😉

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          OOoooo … another ‘ouch’ .   :-))))

        2. Patience2 Avatar
          Patience2

           I’ll second that 🙂

  12. leobetapar Avatar
    leobetapar

    mr blabla  come back Now you attack the patriach pretending to tach him christians dogma But idiot before to talk thing What’s that ‘s means christians dogma ?Poor idiot know that there is maronnite dogma ,catholique dogma ,orthodoxe dogma but not such a thing as christians dogma at least you wanna etablished some When you blabla on economic calling beyrouth do follow the chicago boys way that not problem but when you speak about the live of millions of people take care because idiots can be sometime despisse and not considered but not all the time

    1. 5thDrawer Avatar
      5thDrawer

      There’s a difference between dogma and thought, Leo. And l’m not listening to your idiocy.
      And if you are trying to put me in some pre-determined category, you won’t succeed.

      1. leobetapar Avatar
        leobetapar

        so now you are the piecemouth of the idiot Ghassam,when i critized his litterature you take it for you Told you there is really an psychiatric asylum in Beyrouth go and take an appointment

        1. leobetapar,
                         You are entitled to your points of view but please be respectful of others.

    2. Freedom of speech has its limits… May be it’s time to get you banned. lol

      1. leobetapar Avatar
        leobetapar

        hahaha i win ten time you got fear yeah got fear ,now yoou want censured you are like the hal thani and hal saud the dictators
        when an idiot tell idiotie anyone have right to point at it

        1. Oh you got it all wrong… You speak like those trashy homeless people who live in the streets… You know the type gangsters thugs etc… Still we value your opposing views but will not stand to derogatory remarks calling people idiots whenever you disagree with them. OK nigger?

        2. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          Errr … Hannibal … let us not go too far with the ‘value’ bit … ok? 😉
          Let him chew on Stilton a while. 🙂

      2. hannibal, all this time i wasted trying to reason with leo would have been better spent cuddeling with jessica habib instead  😉

        1. 5thDrawer Avatar
          5thDrawer

          OOoooo … another ‘ouch’ .   :-))))

        2. Patience2 Avatar
          Patience2

           I’ll second that 🙂

  13. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    Well said, Gassan.
    I wondered for a moment if Rai’s words were somehow trying to show a difference between a place where people were allowed to vote, and where they never did. But I dismissed the thought quickly.
    These men of god should know that there is no difference between the two if the voting is directed and enforced by despots only attempting to show a ‘contemporary’ picture of themselves. And after seeing what goes on in Syria, how could any of them say anything good about the place ??

  14. 5thDrawer Avatar
    5thDrawer

    Well said, Gassan.
    I wondered for a moment if Rai’s words were somehow trying to show a difference between a place where people were allowed to vote, and where they never did. But I dismissed the thought quickly.
    These men of god should know that there is no difference between the two if the voting is directed and enforced by despots only attempting to show a ‘contemporary’ picture of themselves. And after seeing what goes on in Syria, how could any of them say anything good about the place ??

  15. Sebouh80 Avatar

    Now allow me to share my personal opinion in this respect. It appears that the Maronite Church has become extremely worried in these past few month about the prospects of radical Islamic movements taking power in this part of the world.
    This is Patriarch Rai’s exact comments to the Reuters the other day. According to Reuters, Patriarch Rai was reportedly said violence and bloodshed is turning the “Arab spring” into winter.
    “Syria, like other countries, needs reforms which the people are demanding” he said. “It’s true that the Syrian Baath regime is an extreme dictatorial regime but there are many others like it in the Arab world.”
    “All regimes in the Arab world have Islam as a state religion, except for Syria. It stands out for not saying it is an Islamic state…..The closest to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria”.
    “We are not defending it. But we regret that Syria, which wants to take a step forward …is undergoing this violence and destruction and (use of) power and weapons.”
    These last two paragraphs are the most controversial statements. Instead, the Patriarch could have said in comparison to other Arab states Syria is far more progressive then other Arab states especially when it comes to the issue of religion. 
    Finally, Mr.Karam, In closing of your article you said “we need to implement the present constitution by eliminating sectarianism from political sphere”. Although I fully support this call, but in reality it is easier said then done.
    Realistically speaking, sectarianism cannot be eliminated through the change of constitution alone it is deeply embedded with every aspect of our life. Other spheres of activity have to be taken in to consideration as well like social relations and the change of mental conceptions.

    Take care

    1. Ghassan Karam Avatar
      Ghassan Karam

      Sebouh,
                 Individuals can be bigots down deep in their hearts but they should know that it is illegal to act on their bigotry. That is why it is up to the state to eliminate sectarianism from its ranks , records and policies. Religion should never be considered as a criteria of hiring any employee, admitting an individual to an educational institution, receiving medical care…

    2. Prophettttt Avatar
      Prophettttt

      Welcome back Sebouh,
      You’re right,”The closest to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria”. is really where He stretched it ,or misspoke ,and it is where He drew  all the criticism.  
      TC,Visit more often.

  16. Sebouh80 Avatar

    Now allow me to share my personal opinion in this respect. It appears that the Maronite Church has become extremely worried in these past few month about the prospects of radical Islamic movements taking power in this part of the world.
    This is Patriarch Rai’s exact comments to the Reuters the other day. According to Reuters, Patriarch Rai was reportedly said violence and bloodshed is turning the “Arab spring” into winter.
    “Syria, like other countries, needs reforms which the people are demanding” he said. “It’s true that the Syrian Baath regime is an extreme dictatorial regime but there are many others like it in the Arab world.”
    “All regimes in the Arab world have Islam as a state religion, except for Syria. It stands out for not saying it is an Islamic state…..The closest to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria”.
    “We are not defending it. But we regret that Syria, which wants to take a step forward …is undergoing this violence and destruction and (use of) power and weapons.”
    These last two paragraphs are the most controversial statements. Instead, the Patriarch could have said in comparison to other Arab states Syria is far more progressive then other Arab states especially when it comes to the issue of religion. 
    Finally, Mr.Karam, In closing of your article you said “we need to implement the present constitution by eliminating sectarianism from political sphere”. Although I fully support this call, but in reality it is easier said then done.
    Realistically speaking, sectarianism cannot be eliminated through the change of constitution alone it is deeply embedded with every aspect of our life. Other spheres of activity have to be taken in to consideration as well like social relations and the change of mental conceptions.

    Take care

    1. Sebouh,
                 Individuals can be bigots down deep in their hearts but they should know that it is illegal to act on their bigotry. That is why it is up to the state to eliminate sectarianism from its ranks , records and policies. Religion should never be considered as a criteria of hiring any employee, admitting an individual to an educational institution, receiving medical care…

    2. Sebouh,
                 Individuals can be bigots down deep in their hearts but they should know that it is illegal to act on their bigotry. That is why it is up to the state to eliminate sectarianism from its ranks , records and policies. Religion should never be considered as a criteria of hiring any employee, admitting an individual to an educational institution, receiving medical care…

    3. Prophettttt Avatar
      Prophettttt

      Welcome back Sebouh,
      You’re right,”The closest to democracy (in the Arab world) is Syria”. is really where He stretched it ,or misspoke ,and it is where He drew  all the criticism.  Two core issues in my opinion:One is the double standard people apply to Religious leaders when they expresses political views.They’re’ great when their views suits them, and horrible when they do not, and I ‘m not referring to the Author by any means,but I’m talking in general .Two is whether religious leaders should express political views publicly or not. I say not.TC,Visit more often.

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